Request to update Onyx Tree Storm

[scott8933]

Either bring Onyx Storm up to speed with EI v7 (or 6 or whenever they stopped supporting it) or start petitioning Xfrog to bring their software to EI.

In some ways, Xfrog has Onyx beat, in that its more flexible than just making trees. On the other hand, there's no topping the beautiful results of Onyx Storm....

For those who haven't seen it, take a look at their link:
http://www.xfrogdownloads.com/greenwebNew/products/productStart.htm
You can do some really interesting stuff with it.

Personally I'd like to see BOTH available for EI, since there is crossover as well as very different things they can each do.



For anyone hoping to see Tree Storm updated to the latest EIAS UB version, please show your interest by leaving a note in the following thread:
http://www.eitechnologygroup.com/forums/viewthread/891/
If you want this to work… sign up. This is not a promise to purchase the product but it would be nice for Onyx to see the number of potential buyers.
http://www.onyxtree.com/storme.html

Could anyone post this on the Email list serve thingy. I forgot how to access it.

[ediris]

I have used Xfrog with C4D. Is very powerful once you know how every thing works but to get to that point, good luck with that. Dont be fooled by the samples.
On the other hand Onyx is got some animation features top of the line.

[richardjoly]

OK guys, we're almost there. We now have an ambassador ready to contact them. So, if you did not already do so, please chime in in the thread to show your interest. Last chance...
http://www.eitechnologygroup.com/forums/viewthread/891/

For anyone hoping to see Tree Storm updated to the latest EIAS UB version, please show your interest by leaving a note here. When enough (20-30?) names are here, Onyx will be contacted with a link to this thread.
If you want this to work… sign up. This is not a promise to purchase the product but it would be nice for Onyx to see the number of potential buyers.

[scottfox]

Pier is a man who has an amazing passion and pride in his products. Labor of love is a phrase I would use to describe him\wife and Onyx. Its easy from a distance to be cynical these days. Im glad to be writing this after having a roughly 45 minute conversation with him, I should be able to clarify and paint a more specific picture of them here, and im glad to do it. I have asked every conceivable question I could think of, and Pier could not have been more gracious and accomodating. Even as I pushed and pushed he was pleasant and informative, so, here goes..... (and yes, he very much remembered me and my croatian roots AND my visit with him 15 or so years ago at MacWorld - see if Adobe can be that personal with its customers -. We have spoken many times since as well)
..........
i will attempt to bullet point the main points and answer any questions after that.
...........
• First off, EI’s market share has little if anything to do with why there is not a Mac version of Tree Storm. Our numbers reflect what Pier ALREADY knows, that EI users in large percentages love and will upgrade or buy a Mac Version of Storm.
He has a true fondness for EI users and his roots with EI.
..
• They have ALREADY put over 6 months of development into Tree Storm for Mac OS X (he estimated 2 years needed). It is APPLE that has been the number one roadblock to getting this done. They have become less and less responsive to questions, and to provide help when needed on the transition of products to OS X. Development stalled as a result of this LACK of help and support to them as a software developer.
..
• He has NOT ruled out trying to finish the OS X version, shockingly to me, but very telling of Pier and his way of thinking, he felt Storm ‘belonged’ with EI. Money had NOTHING to do with it. He began porting it because it “SHOULD” be
with EI on a Mac. NOT because of user base numbers, or any economic reason, ‘It began there and should be there’ he told me. (im sorry, its hard to convey emotion on the web, but he seemed so very sincere to me) Its none of our business his financial state, but obviously he is content and happy with it. He clearly was not looking for dollar for hour type reimbursement of the time he was putting in. Thats a blessing I wish on all of us, the freedom to do what we love
without money dictating our every move. (not easy to have happen, I know)
..
• In Flower alone exists roughly 5 million lines of code. Just try typing something 5 million times he tells me. And thats JUST for flower. It would have to be repeated for Broadleaf, conifer, palm etc. Much more code than camera or EI itself
I believe he said. Again, he did not use this as a reason to NOT do the OS X version. It is apple and their lack of developer support for them personally. (at one point he called them a phone company)
..
• Everything already does work great with EI on WINDOWS. He recommends XP. He also mentioned bootcamp and running windows on the mac works as well. He said to me, ‘you get both versions when you buy EI, mac and windows, correct?’ I said yes....
..
• If you DO NOT NEED MOTION, the individual modules work in OS X. You should be able to open up broadleaf, build the tree the way you like it and export the FACT file. (I was unaware of this, and have not tried it however) So, tree Storm
and motion with it, is the ‘issue at hand’.
..
..
IN CLOSING.. If any of us wants to see tree storm for OS X happen sooner than later, bug the heck out of apple for ignoring and not encouraging\helping its smaller more innovative developers complete their work. Apple recently removed the word computer from their corporate name. A small but telling sign of where their interests are most likely
heading. (even with all this, Pier said he did not rule out continuing progress in the future towards the os X version)
Apple keeps moving the line on developers.
..
I do hope those of us that look at these tools as simply existing or not existing based on money and user base issues, takes heart in their small story. I came away refreshed after speaking with Pier. He has been, and still is a
completely unique person in our industry. Its hard not to wish, when we see our passions, for me, EI is one of them,
directed almost solely by the dollar. Reality? of course it is. But to me, Pier reminded me of the early days in CG when passion was at least equally intertwined with the bottom line. Company’s like Cosa, EI, Apple, Adobe, (among tons of other companies) were all in their infancy and in the middle, it appeared like, of their passionate years.
..
I will answer any questions on things I may have left out when you post them. In the mean time I am looking into one of those “$500” pcs I can place in the corner just to run EI with Tree Storm! http://www.eitechnologygroup.com/images/smileys/smile.gif

[Vizfizz]

Hi Scott,

Great work. Does Pier have a specific contact at Apple that we could focus a user initiative towards? How else can we help?

[scottfox]

Brian, not being a programmer, I am unaware of the questions a developer may have related to OS X. He said they were unhelpful. I would safely guess that any programmer for EI or any other Mac App would be aware of the contacts at apple. My guess would be, "developer relations" at apple. I read all the time on my mac sites how apple developers are always seeking more freedom of information from apple.
.....
My main focus was on Piers reasoning for not doing the mac version. The key things seemed to not be financial. I wish I was more savvy on programming issues to question him on his more specific needs from Apple, but their appeared to be multiple things. He used the term "they keep moving the bar" in reference to his original OS X dealings with apple. I asked him if maybe things at apple have maybe 'settled some' for him to reconsider continuing development and he did not rule it out. There was only so much I felt knowledgeable enough to question him on related to programming. He was kind to give me analogies to help describe the work involved. He easily could have said, 'its not worth it" or "screw apple" but I was listening very intently to hear his tone of voice as it related overall to the issue. I was expecting a polite "its not worth it" response from him.
But he was so much more complex and careful with his words. Even after all the trouble he went through for 6 months programming storm for OS X, he still today, chooses to not
trash apple the way you would expect him to. He simply stated, 'they were not helpful'
or responsive. I gathered he felt it due to the small size of his company, 2 people!
I felt bad about the whole thing. It sounds like they needed some hand holding during their programming efforts and were ignored or blown off, on top of what was rapid development of os X or as he referrd to it as 'constantly moving the bar' on us. I don't have any Apple connections myself so what to do next is up for discussion, i guess.

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