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RobertoOrtiz
11-07-2008, 02:27 PM
I am in the process of filming some footage for the next FXwars challenge and I need help
doing some camera tracking of the shots...
I need the scene data to be released in multiple formats (Maya, Lightwave, Max,C4D)
Any help would be appreciated.

-R

RayRay
11-07-2008, 02:29 PM
I'm no master but I need practice there too. I'll take a stab at a shot and see what I can do.

Henry_B
11-07-2008, 02:45 PM
im no master either, but i have a little experience on tracking, i can give it a try if you want.

JonathanFreisler
11-07-2008, 02:53 PM
if you track it in boujou or similar tracking programs, you can export the camera and data for most software applications.

Quite simple really.

JonathanFreisler
11-07-2008, 03:00 PM
where did the topic for next challenge go? i cant seem to find it. do we know what it is yet? I remember reading that it will have live action plates in it :applause: Hence this thread.

BusterHymen
11-07-2008, 06:34 PM
I can run it through Boujou for you if you like, as Jonathan mentioned it can export camera data to just about any aplication.

Would it only be camera tracking or would there also be ojects to track? Are you using any trackers in the scene? If so would you also want them removed?

I also second the request for info for the next challenge.

djart73
11-07-2008, 06:41 PM
hi Roberto, i could help doing the C4d files.
I would use the Voodoo Tracker and give the Links to, How Import a Voodoo textfile" in C4d from Eggtion http://www.eggtion.net/

@BusterHymen, can Boujou export a C4d compatible file?

greets rasher73

RobertoOrtiz
11-07-2008, 06:46 PM
The name of the challenge I have in mind is...


"The Hallway"

I been recording some spooky hallways with my hd camera.

The idea is to composite something HORRIBLE that is just around the corner...

IF this challenge works, we might do more comp challenges in the future..

Challenges like:

The Stadium... (virtual sets)
The Shootout...( Gun fire elements, Cg Destruction ,CG Blood and maybe a RayGun.)
FXWARS: Four Seasons..

-R

BusterHymen
11-08-2008, 12:54 AM
Roberto, that sounds really cool. Just a thought, but you could have a "mini" (one or two week maximum) camera solve challege to ensure you get a good solve. I would love to get a crack at it.

rasher73, Boujou can export to just about anything Maya, Max, Houdini, LW, C4D, XSI, ect.

To be honest I mostly work in Max so that is the only format that I am used to, but I imagine the only diverences would be the Axis orientation.

JonathanFreisler
11-08-2008, 06:48 AM
yeh the one track solve can be exported to all software programs BusterHymen mentioned. Just gotta get a good track which wont be too hard. You wont need markers really, unless its dark....

djart73
11-08-2008, 12:01 PM
THX for the info, BusterHymen.

Greets rasher73

RobertoOrtiz
11-10-2008, 05:31 PM
Two more possibe challenge that might involve live action are:



Bering Strait Bridge
Albert Whitlock tribute

BusterHymen
11-10-2008, 06:40 PM
Sounds really cool.

When are we going to see some plates?

RobertoOrtiz
11-10-2008, 06:49 PM
Sounds really cool.

When are we going to see some plates?

Soon.

I am right now looking for locations right now in the DC area...

BusterHymen
11-10-2008, 07:28 PM
Okay, I will try to be patient....

Doerge
11-11-2008, 12:11 AM
I dig the Hallway theme! Sounds nice!

By the way Roberto could you provide us with camera info on the plates you supply? Cause it is way easier to match it up if you have the camera spec's. Lense, and specific camera would be all then people can google up the stuff they need.

Cheers!

RobertoOrtiz
11-11-2008, 02:03 AM
I (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=177&modelid=14869) am recording my footage using a
Canon HV20 Camera

Here are the specs:
link (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=177&modelid=14869#ModelTechSpecsAct)

And here are the specs of the wide angle setup I use:
Sony VCL-MHG07 wide angle adapter
link (http://www.3drender.com/photo/vcl/index.htm)

chronic
11-11-2008, 05:48 PM
lens distortion is sometimes an issue with tracking and comp - especially for those wide angle adaptors. whoever is doing tracking should take that into consideration. integrating a character, you can often get away with not worrying about distortion, but for any projections or object replacement, anything geometrical, it wont line up without distortion correction

im guessing we could always choose to do our own tracking for a future challenge on your footage?

RobertoOrtiz
11-12-2008, 05:01 AM
lens distortion is sometimes an issue with tracking and comp - especially for those wide angle adaptors. whoever is doing tracking should take that into consideration. integrating a character, you can often get away with not worrying about distortion, but for any projections or object replacement, anything geometrical, it wont line up without distortion correction

im guessing we could always choose to do our own tracking for a future challenge on your footage?

I have no problem with that...

BusterHymen
11-12-2008, 08:27 PM
chronic brought up a good point, that lens distortion will end up complicating this a bit.

I still think it would be helpfull for some of the contestants to have the footage pre-tracked. However, the distortion corrected plates would have to be given to everyone along with the track solution. The only downside to this, speaking from a Boujou standpoint, is that each contestant will not be able to get the native lens distortion back.

This is where Roberto could provide the footage (both tracked and with the lens distortion corrected), yet also state that if the contestant so desires he/she could track it themselves.

I still say that it would be pretty cool to have a mini-matchmoving challenge before each FXWARS. I have never really seen a challenge of this sort at CGTalk before and it is certainly an art. This all could take place durring the voting of the previous FXWARS.

Just an idea...

RobertoOrtiz
11-13-2008, 01:32 AM
I still say that it would be pretty cool to have a mini-matchmoving challenge before each FXWARS. I have never really seen a challenge of this sort at CGTalk before and it is certainly an art. This all could take place durring the voting of the previous FXWARS.

Just an idea...
I LOVE THE IDEA...

BusterHymen
11-13-2008, 01:52 PM
Cool, I can't wait to see what you can do with this.

RobertoOrtiz
11-13-2008, 03:08 PM
One thing that would help is some basic storyboards, so I can plan the sequences.
The idea of the clip is to show "Something creppy" in the corridor.(Or around the corner)..


And for those who wish to do tracking..

IF I HAVE TIME TONIGHT...

I might record some test footage and upload it tonight,
so we cast start checking calibration settings.

-R

RobertoOrtiz
11-14-2008, 08:49 PM
Sorry for the delay guys,

A friend of my Gf just died yesterday...
As soon as I get a break Ill post the clips I recorded.

Thanks,
-R

ParamountCell
11-14-2008, 10:39 PM
Sorry for the delay guys,

A friend of my Gf just died yesterday...
As soon as I get a break Ill post the clips I recorded.

Thanks,
-R
sorry to hear that.

BusterHymen
11-16-2008, 09:00 PM
Hope you and your girlfriend are okay.


Primero lo primero, lo esperamos...

we will wait, after a shock like, take care of your life, and we will wait.

RobertoOrtiz
11-17-2008, 12:11 AM
Thanks guys,

Jodi is made of strong stuff...


:)


Here is the first test clip..

http://www.savefile.com/files/1889481 (http://www.savefile.com/files/1889481)

lamp1
11-17-2008, 09:59 PM
Hi there, i am new to cgsociety so feel a little nervous...i thought i might try and help out and give the tracking a go. The footage is quite tricky to track as there are very little places to track on the walls. However i found by importing a basic geometry like a box and eyeballing it to the floor you can do some face based tracking and get a much better solve (using boujou). This added with featue tracking i found has some better results. Hope that helps some people.
However it still slides and pops a bit so will need refining. I am still working on the shot now. I was wondering do you know roughly the length of the hallway?
Thinking one tile is around a foot i thought perhaps 78 feet (24 metres) and width 6 to 7 feet (1.8m)?

BusterHymen
11-18-2008, 02:45 PM
I have tried a few things and I am not having much luck.

I am finding the following:

Lack of detail on the walls make them almost unusable
The overall fast movement is creating a lot of motion blur
The relections on the floor are also creating some confusion and leaving very little of the floor usable
The checker pattern on the floor could help a lot if you could review the lighting a bit. Also the wide angle lens distortion was minor and easily removed.

Are you planning on making a few more test shots? I will keep playing with this one.

RobertoOrtiz
11-18-2008, 02:47 PM
I have tried a few things and I am not having much luck.

I am finding the following:

Lack of detail on the walls make them almost unusable
The overall fast movement is creating a lot of motion blur
The relections on the floor are also creating some confusion and leaving very little of the floor usable
The checker pattern on the floor could help a lot if you could review the lighting a bit. Also the wide angle lens distortion was minor and easily removed.

Are you planning on making a few more test shots? I will keep playing with this one.

Yes I am,
I will upload them today..


Would it help if I post some markers on the floor?, Maybe at the start Frame?
Should I film at a slower rate?
Should I film more of the floor?

RayRay
11-18-2008, 03:07 PM
Hey Roberto,

Can u force the camera to shoot at a faster shutter speed to help reduce the motion blur? Might need more light that way but that's always helped us with motion blur when shooting green screen stuff.

BusterHymen
11-18-2008, 03:45 PM
I would say that we can avoid markers it would be better. Due to the distance traveled the markers would have to be along the entire hallway and painting them out would be a pain. Another option could be to place to items in path that could be used as "markers", like garbage on the floor. Just to add more detail.


I think the best thing would be to walk along the hall a little slower, and try even out the contrast in the lighting. A little less blown out on the ceiling and relections, and a little more light on the floor. I am not sure what you could do about the intense relections on the floor, but they might improve with the lighting improvements.

Gmora7
11-19-2008, 09:01 PM
I think you can pull a manual/supervised track from this, Look at Cloverfield. That's the challenge of matchmoving. A faster shutter speed always helps but with supervised trackers it shouldn't too hard...

nickmarshallvfx
11-22-2008, 01:40 AM
I cant comment on the tracking as i havent seen the footage yet, but ill give it a shot if i have time (unlikely, but still...).

Just wanted to say that the Albert Whitlock tribute sounds absolutely amazing as a challenge, just please please please do it sometime AFTER May '09 so I will have finished my current project and can participate... A lot to ask i know as its a fair way off, but i dont mind begging when its for a worthy cause! hehe.

Anyway, if you do go ahead with the Al Whitlock tribute, whenever it is, make sure you post something in the matte painting forum as there will be a whole bunch of guys there that will be dead keen to get involved in that one! Im sure you would do that anyway, you seem to have this whole thing covered amazingly well...

Cheers!

Nick

RobertoOrtiz
11-22-2008, 11:37 AM
Ok here is what I plan to do....
We will do first the Hallway challenge and then we will do the Albert Whitlock challenge..


For the Hallway mini challenge we will make it into a tracking/composite challenge.
I will have at least 3 plates that people can choose.

That means that two of the categories for the voting will be.....

BEST TRACKING
BEST COMPOSITE


A person can ONLY do tracking, and offer it to other teams to do VFX on the plate. If only ONE person does the tracking for all the plates, well, he will be the winner by default.

For the Albert Whitlock I want to film some source plates INSPIRED by some of his most famous works..
http://es.geocities.com/artinmovies/Whitlocks-gallery.html (http://www.filmreference.com/Writers-and-Production-Artists-Vi-Win/Whitlock-Albert.html)

So at the time of the challenge we got at least 4 setups (Nothing fancy, it just means me filming some basic plates, with the help of some of my mates)

And for that I will need some help, since I will need to determine WHAT should those plates be.


Some of the shots people have suggested are:

-the passing train shot in "The Sting"
- the temple shot in "The Man who would be king"
- the zeppelin hovering over Manhattan in "The Hindenburg"
- The sandstorm in "Bound for Glory"
- The flying saucer embedded in ice in "The Thing"
- The prologue from "Cat People"

nickmarshallvfx
11-22-2008, 07:28 PM
Roberto - When would the Hallway challenge be finished up, and when would the Al Whitlock tribute challenge begin?

RobertoOrtiz
11-23-2008, 01:26 AM
I would give the challenge about one month...

But keep in mind that I will need to prepare for the Whitlock challenge.

mazm
11-25-2008, 08:42 PM
Hi Roberto,

I would like to participate in this challenge.
To do the tracking in proper way, make sure that you take the Focal Length and CCD.
if you can do some measurement this will be great.

Apollo05
11-26-2008, 08:06 PM
this sounds cool, i can't wait!

Faghmee
12-01-2008, 09:31 AM
Hey all,when is the d day for this Hallway comp?

JoseLuis3D
12-01-2008, 05:44 PM
Count me in,my PFtrack is ready for the tracking!

RobertoOrtiz
12-02-2008, 04:19 AM
Guys I will be recording some footage THIS WEEKEND. As soon as I am done, we go live.

I (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=177&modelid=14869) am recording my footage using a
Canon HV20 Camera

Here are the specs:
link (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=177&modelid=14869#ModelTechSpecsAct)

And here are the specs of the wide angle setup I use:
Sony VCL-MHG07 wide angle adapter
link (http://www.3drender.com/photo/vcl/index.htm)

Here are some clips I have shot in the past with the camera:
CLIP1 (http://www.savefile.com/files/1817011)
CLIP2 (http://www.savefile.com/files/1817017)
CLIP3 (http://www.savefile.com/files/1817028)
CLIP4 (http://www.savefile.com/files/1817035)
CLIP5 (http://www.savefile.com/files/1817036)
CLIP6 (http://www.savefile.com/files/1817050)
CLIP7 (http://www.savefile.com/files/1817053)
CLIP8 (http://www.savefile.com/files/1817060)

RobertoOrtiz
12-02-2008, 04:20 AM
Hey Roberto,

Can u force the camera to shoot at a faster shutter speed to help reduce the motion blur? Might need more light that way but that's always helped us with motion blur when shooting green screen stuff.

Ill try....Any other ideas?

Daniel-B
12-02-2008, 10:37 PM
Well, if Roberto is trying to get a cinematic look, he needs to shoot with a 1/48th shutter. I have a Canon HV20 as well, and it will shot 24p with a 1/48th shutter, otherwise known as the "film look".

RobertoOrtiz
12-03-2008, 02:52 AM
Well, if Roberto is trying to get a cinematic look, he needs to shoot with a 1/48th shutter. I have a Canon HV20 as well, and it will shot 24p with a 1/48th shutter, otherwise known as the "film look".

You and I will be exchanging PM soon.

I need to make sure the settings are right.

-R

Sacmanis
12-03-2008, 06:11 AM
Just a thought,

Using the footage already provided. Using After Effects or equivalent, remove camera shake (or at least minimize it). You can add it back in during post.

Render the footage for use in compositing.

Use a stylize/find edges filter to outline the edges of the existing geometry such as the doors.

Using that filter you should even be able to get a clean track off of the floor as it outlines the floor tiles.

Render the footage for tracking.

I use Icarus to motion track (it was free and I have had it a long time) and the camera shake would likely be my undoing which is why I would probably take it out in order to track. I am going to try it both ways and see if I can get a clean track even with the shake. I am confident I can get it with the Find Edges filter.

Wade

P.S. Yes this is my first post

mazm
12-03-2008, 12:21 PM
as I know it is better to leave the original footage as it is if you are going to track it.
the only thing you have to consider is the lens distortion otherwise everything in RAW condition.

chronic
12-03-2008, 01:39 PM
unfortunately removing camera shake before tracking distorts the footage in a way that would make 3d tracking harder if not imposible.

RayRay
12-03-2008, 01:52 PM
I've had some trouble dealing with 24p pulldown issues and tracking. We Got in the habit of shooting 30p. I know there are ways to remove the pulldown for tracking but I haven't done it on my own. Anyone know what's up with that and how to adjust footage at 24p to get an easier track?

RobertoOrtiz
12-04-2008, 04:29 AM
Ok I recorded two clips today.

On in 24p and the other in 30p

24p

http://free.mailbigfile.com/18bc077cb107488c2b8374b064707e8e/listFiles.php (http://free.mailbigfile.com/18bc077cb107488c2b8374b064707e8e/listFiles.php)


30 p
http://free.mailbigfile.com/0699810f5e732491e34aea3d80f66a5a/listFiles.php (http://free.mailbigfile.com/0699810f5e732491e34aea3d80f66a5a/listFiles.php)

Lets see if you guys have problems with them.

-R

Sacmanis
12-04-2008, 04:40 AM
Okay, A couple of points.

Chronic,

I don't see what you mean that stabilizing distorts the footage making 3D trackng harder unless you intended to use the original footage in post. Obviously stabilizing the footage and tracking then trying to use the original 'shaky' footage in post would make no sense. My intent was to to add shake back in post. I only have experience with After Effects, but I am sure all of the other motion graphics software packages can add shake in post.

Mazm,

Although I would agree you want to use the original footage, most tracking software handles tilt/pans/zooms MUCH better than shaky handheld footage. If you have shaky footage that is stationary in the 'z' plane then it is not too bad but as soon as you add the 'z' motion, the track goes to pot. I tried to track the cleanest 10 seconds of the orignal footage last night and got nowhere. It was simply too difficult to get a clean track. Using a stylize/find edges filter did make it easier to lock onto trackable features though. Maybe with more powerful tracking software you can get a better track. Free old school Icarus is just not as good as some of the higher end packages.

To point to an earlier post, motion blur casued more problems than I thought it would from simply watching the footage. It is there but not as noticable until I started watching frame by frame during the track. I considered another option if the footage encompassed a lot of motion blur. If I were to convert the footage to an image sequence, could I drop the blurred frames and still get a decent track. I haven't tried it but........I guess it depends on how stable the original footage is.

Wade

chronic
12-04-2008, 05:02 AM
if you can adjust the shutter on your camera > less motion blur is easier to track, although consumer cameras dont do to well in low light enviroments so it can be tough.

anyone else seeing blue at the beginning of the videos?

RobertoOrtiz
12-04-2008, 12:00 PM
Ok for those with an HV20 i nee help setting some settings for this:


Camera Settings:
Shutter Priority Mode
Shutter Speed: -
Exposure Locked:-
Color Correction: -


I found online some good reading on the subject:
http://dvxuser.com/jason/hv20/

I will do more tests tonight
-R

sakroda
12-04-2008, 02:20 PM
i didn't get it which video is for challenge?
thank you

RobertoOrtiz
12-05-2008, 03:52 AM
We are just testing camer settings...

I will be recording footage soon.
-R

RobertoOrtiz
12-05-2008, 05:01 AM
Ok here are three more test files:


http://free.mailbigfile.com/446ec1800c67e1ea2e121755914a1cdb/listFiles.php (http://free.mailbigfile.com/446ec1800c67e1ea2e121755914a1cdb/listFiles.php)
http://free.mailbigfile.com/36ae0b89efcc4d2a320e55cb4f4b9faf/listFiles.php (http://free.mailbigfile.com/36ae0b89efcc4d2a320e55cb4f4b9faf/listFiles.php)
http://free.mailbigfile.com/32abe3a7dfb703e7fa2dbe7be41ac64f/listFiles.php (http://free.mailbigfile.com/32abe3a7dfb703e7fa2dbe7be41ac64f/listFiles.php)
Filmed on cinema mode, on 24p

Tell me guys what you think.

-R

Sacmanis
12-05-2008, 03:14 PM
I couldnt get a clean track. Still too much random camera movement. I was close but there was still too much drift on the 3D object I inserted. I don't think the motion blur was too much of a problem. The tracking software tracks enough points that I think it can overlook that. I still think the biggest problem is with the overall camera movement simply being to random.

For the sake of argument, can you do the same footage in the alley using a simple pan on a tripod? It will answer the question of whether it is me or the footage.

I was considering setting my camera up in my driveway and filming a couple of cars going by. there would certainly be an extreme amount of motion blur but no other camera motion. The problem is that I could sort of cheat using After Effects to attach a seperate 3D layer using tracking in After Effects. I don't currently ahve a tripod so I am limited in what I could do.

I don't know at this point. I am not a pro at motion tracking so....

Also, I am anxious to see what others come up with using other tracking software.

And yes, I am also getting the blue segment at the front of the clip.

sakroda
12-06-2008, 08:21 AM
links has gone:((

RobertoOrtiz
12-06-2008, 05:11 PM
Yes it is gone , but I will be recording some more test footage tonight.
I will be posting it as MPG4 video that has been processed in Sony Vegas...

-R

RobertoOrtiz
12-07-2008, 03:55 AM
Well as promised..
Guys please test these files...
If they work fine we go live next week.

http://www.savefile.com/files/1919055 (http://www.savefile.com/files/1919055)
http://www.savefile.com/files/1919058 (http://www.savefile.com/files/1919058)
http://www.savefile.com/files/1919064 (http://www.savefile.com/files/1919064)

RobertoOrtiz
12-08-2008, 05:37 AM
We go live in 48 hours...

Plese test the above files to see if we can get any tracking.

Thanks,
-R

JoseLuis3D
12-08-2008, 02:40 PM
It would be great to know the focal lenght of the shots and it also would be fine if you could save it with a corrected aspect ratio.

Let's see if I can track it.

Tris3d
12-09-2008, 09:19 AM
This sounds exciting! Tracking is one of my biggest nightmares! Look forward to seeing what the next challenge is!

Faghmee
12-09-2008, 10:58 AM
Hey Roberto,is it possible that u can put markers on the walls(posters,picture frames etc)and maybe some gum on the floor or just decorate the seen nicely with wuteva u want.Its just tracking clean walls and blurry floors is a nightmare!It makes me want to scream like a little girl!
,but then again maybe im just super untalented and suck big time at tracking...anyways

so yah dude "clean walls BAD dirty/busy walls GOOD"

over and out

RobertoOrtiz
12-09-2008, 11:45 PM
Hey guys, I been hit by a BAD flu. I promise we will go live, as soon as I can get horizontal.

-R

RobertoOrtiz
12-14-2008, 08:40 PM
Sorry guys, I been out for the count for a about a week.

We need to talk about this challenge.
I will what we will do next in the next 12 hours.

-R

RobertoOrtiz
12-16-2008, 01:28 AM
Since I am not confident we have made sp far we will do another challenge instead.



anyway, the hallway challenge has NOT been cancelled, only postponed.

-R

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