environ Works

[CybrGfx]

Right off the bat, you have a wonky perspective. Common problem when people do the "tilted horizon" BEFORE getting the image established...Paint it level, THEN tilt it...Otherwise, it's almost seasickness inducing...

Yes, you have too much of the fake mechanical stuff, but the main problem you have with this environment, is that there is no visual point to it.
WHAT is the viewer supposed to be seeing? Besides a giant hunk of strange pseudo mechanics at a wonky angle? This does not look like a factory, nor an industrial setting, nor the boilerroom of a ship. It's just a bunch of stuff.

Even environmental matte works follow the general rules of Composition and Design. This piece needs a more solid visual foundation.

~C

[groboto]

Right off the bat, you have a wonky perspective...

...the main problem you have with this environment, is that there is no visual point to it.
WHAT is the viewer supposed to be seeing? ...It's just a bunch of stuff.

Even environmental matte works follow the general rules of Composition and Design. This piece needs a more solid visual foundation.
~C

Hi CybrGfx,
Thanks for the crits. You make some good points, but I have a defense for others.
As I said, the piece is in a messy early state -- just wanted to show the whole process in this thread.

That overall chaos my be flavoring your perceptions. The camera projection is a pretty extreme (but valid), fisheye -- always a bit hard to swallow, especially with unfamiliar, irregular, geometries... but you're right, it's not reading too well -- I will try to make it more palatable.

As for what the viewer is supposed to be seeing... well that's up to the viewer. Perhaps a mistake on my part to use an 'environ' title in this forum because it carries expectations of a certain genre of art & illustration. While I truly admire that genre -- I only tangentially pursue it.

I love Science Fiction & Science Fiction art -- have been involved with it for 30 years. But for me, the less literal and more evocative, the better. I actually enjoy being a bit disoriented. If I can't label what I'm looking at, that's fine. There are some of my even less identifiable environments here (over a decade old now -- produced for the SciFi Channel website):
Electric Garden Portfolio (http://www.braid.com/electricGardeni-0.htm)

I truly appreciate your comments -- and by no means think this piece is successful yet -- but thought I should clarify my intent.... and regardless of intent, I'm always open to everyones insights... hey, if it sucks, it dosen't matter what I thought I was doing.

[CybrGfx]

Actually, the only real issue I have with this has nothing to do with what you call this, environ, still life, plein aire, portrait, landscape, abstract, surreal, or even cubist...

You have NO decent focal point to this work (nor to the vast majority of that old stuff, either)...

Compositional rules apply almost across the board with GOOD art.
Point
Line
Shape
Space
Value
Color
Texture

These are the elements that make up a composition.
While you have some nice clumps of stuff, with some interesting colors and visual texture, most of these works lack a Point. Not just a clearly identifiable Focal Point, but an Existential or Aesthetical Point, as well...
Again, I ask you...WHAT exactly do you expect the viewer to see or make out of this clump of stuff? It is NOT composed in a manner to even provide a "non-objectative" visual journey around the canvas. It just visually squats there, with a bit of visual movement from the combined directional Lines heading off in all the unstructured directions...
HOW would YOU describe the visual flow for a viewer seeing this? Where would the eye go to first and foremost, and how would it travel clearly from there around the canvas, returning to that focal point???

There is a VAST difference between "doodling," and "creating" a traditional artwork. There is likewise a vast difference between "compositing" and "composing" an artwork digitally. These may be decent composits, but they are bad compositions...

And the "fish-eye" reasoning doesn't work, because again, you have to have the perpendiculars, horizon line, and vanishing point(s) correct BEFORE you apply the fish-eye effect...This piece does not possess that solid foundation, and it visibly, obviously, shows...

But hey, these are just my observations. If you enjoy making these things, that is all that counts.

~C

[groboto]

Hey CybrGfx,

Clearly you and I have some differing opinions on art. Perhaps to broad for discussion here. Instead I offer my work as argument/evidence -- in my Portfolio here, the Braid site, and GroBoto site. I do understand the fundamentals of a good image. If that body of work doesn't convince you of that -- nothing I say here will.

[groboto]

Got a chance to put a few hours in on this one.
Still a good distance to go, but I think I have a handle on where it's headed.

Have finally begun to blow past the render and paint... hope to keep it painterly through to the finish. Don't want to get hung up here -- this is new territory for me (see my CGSPortfolio Blog) -- want to continue to explore and experiment .


http://www.braid.com/imagez/environPaint/ringTreeRailway-2w.jpg

[CybrGfx]

Hey CybrGfx,

Clearly you and I have some differing opinions on art. Perhaps to broad for discussion here. Instead I offer my work as argument/evidence -- in my Portfolio here, the Braid site, and GroBoto site. I do understand the fundamentals of a good image. If that body of work doesn't convince you of that -- nothing I say here will."What is Art?" is a never-ending discussion.

No matter how vast a body of work, and no matter how varied the definition or opinion of "Art," these forums were designed for critique and assistance with Works In Progress.

The visible fact is that regardless your opinions, your technical skills as regards Composition and Design, are lacking on a "fundimental" level. You cannot even create a visually stable image...We are not talking aesthetics, we are talking technical skill. THAT is, along with the purpose of the WIP forum, one of the more discernable deciding factors in true art critique...
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6073/crookednf4.jpg
Fish eye perpsective, and horizon tilt aside, we are talking the technical skill to render level surfaces level, which this piece does not technically accomplish.

I HAVE checked out your site, your works, and those of your partner.
Exploring and Experimenting are ALL well and good, but I think YOU need to better understand that for all your playing around with fractal form generation software, it does not compensate for good composition skills, which you need to improve. Please spare me the sputtering excuses, as this is not the place for them.
You created an image, you uploaded it to a WIP critique forum, your image was properly addressed, along with those areas that you need to work on.

Whether or not you choose to do so is always your own. This piece shows no clear compositional point, poor perspective, values, flow, and unity.
If you want to improve it, fine. If not, why post it here? You have a portfolio. This is not a show and tell, "Lookee what I did!" refrigerator door. Your last update STILL shows a bad horizon line, poor lighting, and a lack of a clear compositional focal point. The addition of some foggy lights does not clear up the composition at all. It just adds some new bright spots of vagueness to the general confusion...

Experiment away, but don't expect ass-pats of adulation here for overworked doodles, even if they are generated by a software app...

~C

[groboto]

...Please spare me the sputtering excuses, as this is not the place for them.
You created an image, you uploaded it to a WIP critique forum, your image was properly addressed, along with those areas that you need to work on.

...This is not a show and tell, "Lookee what I did!" refrigerator door....

Experiment away, but don't expect ass-pats of adulation here for overworked doodles, even if they are generated by a software app...
~C

When did I ask for 'ass-pats of adulation'? I am posting here for critique.
If you recall, I sincerely thanked you for your first critiques...

...
Thanks for the crits.... I truly appreciate your comments -- and by no means think this piece is successful yet -- but thought I should clarify my intent.... and regardless of intent, I'm always open to everyones insights... hey, if it sucks, it dosen't matter what I thought I was doing.

...and also attempted to address a specific comment you made...

...This does not look like a factory, nor an industrial setting, nor the boilerroom of a ship. It's just a bunch of stuff...
~C

Beyond that, I was simply suggesting that that broad discussions of art might be better served elsewhere. Please critique away -- however, I may not agree with all of your assessments. That's an aspect of these forums too.

[groboto]

Moving further towards the more abstract and painterly -- where I had hoped to take this piece from the start. Definitely let the render survive too long.

Pretty big changes in values, palette, (obviously). Some refinements to form & composition as well.

Still plenty to do, but I'll to put it aside for a bit and come back with fresh eyes.

http://www.braid.com/imagez/environPaint/ringRail-cw.jpg

[EndoTouch]

The slanted orientation gives me a strong feeling of disorientation. even though I enjoy the new update I won't look at it long because of the space sickness it gives.

[groboto]

The slanted orientation gives me a strong feeling of disorientation. even though I enjoy the new update I won't look at it long because of the space sickness it gives.

Hi EndoTouch,

Thanks for the feedback. I certainly don't aim to make people queasy.

As I mentioned at the top, I kind of stumbled out of the gate with this one. I'm developing, what for me, is an entirely new workflow -- and new techniques. I stuck with the piece because I was making good progress on some aspects -- and I felt I could pull it together in the end... but it was always a bit out of control.

'Tho I'll probably never be truly happy with it, I hope to make a few key changes and -- if it merits -- post the finish in my gallery.

Best Wishes,
Darrel

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