WIP City Life, searching for critics

[wo0lF]

Trees are off perspective and there are way too many vehicles (black spots) on sky.

Now wait for CybrGfx (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=89862) comment :D

[Roykorpel]

Trees are off perspective and there are way too many vehicles (black spots) on sky.

Now wait for CybrGfx (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=89862) comment :D

Thanks WoOlF,

So u think to lower that amount of vihicles. I want to give the city a lot of economic stuff.. dont u think i lose this effect when i edit this?

I think myself i need to make the buildings higher to. And let the planes fly in the middle of the height as the buildings

[wo0lF]

Thanks WoOlF,
So u think to lower that amount of vihicles. I want to give the city a lot of economic stuff.. dont u think i lose this effect when i edit this?


Well.. that's my opinion. I would add some more buildings and remove few vehicles.

[Roykorpel]

Well.. that's my opinion. I would add some more buildings and remove few vehicles.

thanks for your feedback m8. I take it with me!

[Roykorpel]

I did some quick blocking on my work. Is this a better concept?

http://www.rkgfx.nl/puploads/images/portfolio/City%20life%20v2%20buildings.jpg

[bhaskar]

At first glance they were looking like the raining particles of black ashes or snow.
If they are the vehicles flying around the building then why are they in a chaotic manner?

Also the dustbin and chair perspective are going against each other. Feels like the chair top part is leaning forward, if i see that from the normal prespective.

Nice Compostion though! :love:

[Roykorpel]

At first glance they were looking like the raining particles of black ashes or snow.
If they are the vehicles flying around the building then why are they in a chaotic manner?

Also the dustbin and chair perspective are going against each other. Feels like the chair top part is leaning forward, if i see that from the normal prespective.

Nice Compostion though! :love:

Thanks for your critics m8. The first thing i do when i sit back with this drawing is making a perspective! Your totaly right! ;)

[CybrGfx]

I would suggest you lay down on your floor, next to your couch (about where the bench would be in your image)

Perspective should pretty quickly show you that while the things next to you have gotten extremely large, then tapering off into the vertical distance, the air around you is pretty empty...

To fill the canvas as much as you are attempting to, you as the viewer is laying on the ground next to the bench, and everything else is planted all around you. The tall buildings are about 8 inches apart, except for the tall habitrail plastic tube building, which is right next to your head...

The crap falling from the sky would have blinded you or knocked you out cold. When you're laying on the floor next to the couch, ask someone to toss some unpopped popcorn or a handful of cat kibble on your face as you hold your eyes open (you will want to instinctively blink)...You'll get the point soon enough.

This is a piece whose charm lies in it's original creation. It cannot easily be converted to digital and "cleaned up." Most old works "pre-digital" are like that.
Enjoy it for what it is.

Life is too short to waste it trying to go back in time to old drawings and paintings, then trying to digitize them.

MOVE ON with your creative life! (This is addressed to ALL the "I drew this a long time ago" thread starters...)
If you like that old piece so much, start over from scratch. Don't scan it in and then think through the magic of Photoshop you can correct bad perspective, proportion, placement, flow, balance, and all the other compositional flaws in this (and most "old") work.

Start fresh with a clean perspective grid, and use this piece as a "Comp Rough" to inspire you.

~C

[Roykorpel]

Start fresh with a clean perspective grid, and use this piece as a "Comp Rough" to inspire you.
~C

I think your right. It crossed my mind sunday when i was redrawing this one. Thanks for your quality input CybrGfx! ;)

[Roykorpel]

Okey, here a new perspective, only drawed this on a new document 6000x4000 :)

http://www.rkgfx.nl/puploads/images/portfolio/perspective.jpg

[wo0lF]

Much batter. Garbage can is still off perspective.

[Roykorpel]

Much batter. Garbage can is still off perspective.

Hmm, i draw it in the perspective lines. Maby i have to make it more rounder so the view is more 'under' it

[CybrGfx]

Better. Still a bit too "circular," in point of view, but still better.

The underside of the trash container should be rounder. It is not that far away from the viewer to show perpsective distortion like that. The first version was truer to the viewer's POV.

The bit thing falling is wonderfully disturbing. That should be your focal point. I'd enlarge it a bit more. It will also allow you to not detail as much the outer edges, as motion blur will keep the detail on that falling thing...

Good job on the redraw.

~C

[Roykorpel]

Better. Still a bit too "circular," in point of view, but still better.

The underside of the trash container should be rounder. It is not that far away from the viewer to show perpsective distortion like that. The first version was truer to the viewer's POV.

The bit thing falling is wonderfully disturbing. That should be your focal point. I'd enlarge it a bit more. It will also allow you to not detail as much the outer edges, as motion blur will keep the detail on that falling thing...

Good job on the redraw.

~C

There is nothing faling down CybrGfx. But, your not the only one that says this. =) So i did something wrong there that people see things faling :P

The dots on the firt version are vihecles. The thing in the middle will be a docking station with a lot of ads under and around it. There will be planes/cars flying around it. I wil try to do some more blocking this evening on my new cintiq! ^^

[CybrGfx]

Scale makes the docking station appear less than it is.

You may want to consider making it more massive, like
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/738/46002h249cb68lx8.jpg
http://www.igorstshirts.com/blog/conceptships/marcin_j_2.jpg

It's a major focal point, anyway, so having it occupy more space certainly won't hurt it...

~C

[CybrGfx]

If you want to see some wonderful spaceships, check out http://conceptships.blogspot.com
The Giant Fish Ship is my favorite...
~C

[EndoTouch]

If they are flying cars they need to show it, maybe the ones you have in there are too far to bother, think about adding a car that is low enough to show that its a flying car with wings or hover things. When you said the dots were cars I got the impression that something was sucking them off the ground, I think its half the perspective and half that there is no indication of why the cars are so high in the air.

[Roykorpel]

thanks for the comments guys. Dont focus to much on the docking station. It will be a small thing in the drawing. Thanks for thinking and sharing pictures. It feeds my inspration!

I have done some quick blocking and some little changing.

Done on my new Cintiq! Oh boy, what a peace of device!


http://www.rkgfx.nl/puploads/images/portfolio/city%20life%203_1%20jpeg.jpg

[CybrGfx]

The trash container looks MUCH more believeable now!

It provides a nice bit of organic roundness balance against all the straight lines. Good job!

~C

[EndoTouch]

Subconsciously I thought the garbage symbol on the can was a Japanese character, the image makes me think of anime Tokyo as well. I don't know if you want to run with that but I thought it was interesting enough to suggest. Maybe turn the image into a times square with huge screens and neon, that works for Tokyo too. The buildings are nice and the perspective is top notch; I like busy things, city's should be busy if anything. You could make the skyscrapers mirrored and of odd colours too, Canda Place here uses rose glass which I've always loved. Theres so much you can do now with this, then again it could ruin the technical mastery it shows now. Personally, I'd add nuiance though even at the risk of loosing something because for me nuiances make the image. Also I can't stand the concrete grid of North America so anything that escapes the monoteny in cities makes me happy.

The image is so striking it seems to screem for something profound to say, great work.

[fluxist8070]

It might be worth considering this image as if you are looking at a landscape in traditional terms. For instance, the sky is a white band that is streaking across the middle of the page.

The cluster of buildings at the bottom are nice because they keep image weighted nicely.

The way the buildings frame the sky makes the image very still, at the same time, there is a really dynamic pov. Placing the space ship in the middle makes it even more still.

Maybe lower the ship so that it overlaps the buildings a little to help the illusion of atmosphere.

This is a very geometric comp. The addition of some biomorphic shapes or pattern would make the image more sophisticated. I am thinking in terms of repetition and rhythm here...all of the angles refer to each other. Another layer or type of repetition could possibly aid this already striking an unorthodox comp.

[Roykorpel]

Thank u all for the quality comments!

@ fluxist8070, Thank u for the feedback. Lower the spaceships so the depth will do his work is defently something i will do! I will update him this night!

@ CybrGfx, thanks m8. I was waiting for your comment, hoping u like the container ^^

@ EndoTouch, the logo on the trash container is not jananese hihi. But a international logo only drawed very quick. Some of the skycrappers will be mirror things like other buildings and sky. There will be also a lot of screens with Ad's. Thanks for your input. I hope u walk with me with this drawing.

[Roykorpel]

Update!

I have done some more blocking, and a little bit more detailing. I did a first shot with the vihecles.

I think Ill try to do some reflexions tommorow or friday

[edit]
The most left building from above irritates me when i concentrate on the middle. Its something in the left of my eye that is not still.



http://www.rkgfx.nl/puploads/images/portfolio/city%20life%203_2%20jpeg.jpg

[jebas]

I think part of the problem with the image is that you're trying to force the buildings into unnartural positions. Traditionally buildings are boxes with all of the flats lined up. The front of one building is parallel to the front of either building to its sides and to the building across from it. Therefore the street in the sky should be two straight lines.

You've laid your buildings into an oval, which is not a natural shape for a city. Secondly the vanishing point of the buildings are not the same. Each line that forms the edges of the building should all meeting at the same point in the sky. You could get away with the oval shape, if you correct your vanishing point.

[Roykorpel]

I think part of the problem with the image is that you're trying to force the buildings into unnartural positions. Traditionally buildings are boxes with all of the flats lined up. The front of one building is parallel to the front of either building to its sides and to the building across from it. Therefore the street in the sky should be two straight lines.

First of al thanks for your comment Jebas. I ask for critism, u give critism. thank u for that and please keep doing it even when we think diffrent.

But, and hit me if I understand u in a wrong way.. i do not agree with u. I dont think buildings have to be in boxes. Why is it not possible that buildings stand in diffrent patterns?


You've laid your buildings into an oval, which is not a natural shape for a city. Secondly the vanishing point of the buildings are not the same. Each line that forms the edges of the building should all meeting at the same point in the sky. You could get away with the oval shape, if you correct your vanishing point.

I use a vanishpoint in this drawing. But not al the buildings are the same in height. I think that create the oval shape. I doenst bother me realy. But I give it a night rest and peek it again tomorow with a cup of coffee.

thanks for the feedback, i take this with me!!

[jebas]

I know that a picture is worth a thousand words, so the following should show you what I meant about the vanishing point.

http://art.jebas.us/images/citylife3_2jpeg-perspective1.jpg

Since you're doing a single point perspective, all of these line should form into a single dot. As I show in the example below.

http://art.jebas.us/images/citylife3_2jpeg-prespective2.jpg

Now as for my comment about buildings being square, I was referring to the fact that most cities are built on grids. Most buildings tend to be square boxes to take maximum use of the square plots of land that they are sitting on. In the above example, I did take a few buildings off of the traditional parallel.

I hope this is useful in explaining what I tring to say earlier.

[CybrGfx]

The thing is, technically "perfect" looks boring as hell in this piece.

I like it the way it is.
They don't call it "Artistic License" without reason.
You have to take more into consideration than just perfect perspective. The entire concept behind this piece is not possible in the real, physical world. Those buildings would be extremely huge, and planted in a circle around the bench...closely...

Do not think of this a circular display, think more "fish eye," and forget your "city grid" POV, there are "Technical Industrial Parks" (at least here in Colorado), where the buildings look quite similar to this, giant complexes over large sections of ground "parks", where the buildings are NOT squared against each other.

This is a situation where a bit of suspension of belief is called for...

The building placement and the bench with trash container issues have been solved, now you just need to deal with the sky dock in a feasable positioning.

~C

[Roykorpel]

Jebas and CyberGfx, thank u both for your input. I take both upinions with me. It will not be a photorealistic drawing. I like to mix drawings with a cartoon style. I will work on the vanishing point..but i want to keep the funny style :)

These comming days maby a week i dont have time to spend on this drawing. But, i will update it right away when i have done some changes. It would be great if u peek in this tread again!

Thanks sofar,

Roy Korpel

[jebas]

Before I let this go, I would like to point out that I have only been talking about one aspect of this drawing; the buildings. I have not been talking about the composition, or the overall appeal.

I agree with both you and CybrGfx that placing that taking the buildings off of the grid and placing them in an oval, or fish eye, calls attention to the platform in the center of the painting. I didn't mention it before because I wasn't talking about composition. (Maybe I should remember talk about the entire piece next time I jump into one of these critic threads.)

Now I'm not going to get into an arguement about artistic license with CybrGfx because when and where to use it is a matter of opinion. No matter what you do, you will find that some people agree with you, and some people will disagree with you. In the end, you are the painter, and this is your painting.

I am interested in seeing this completed. Some perverse part of me likes the concept of an open air traffice jam.

[Roykorpel]

Before I let this go, I would like to point out that I have only been talking about one aspect of this drawing; the buildings. I have not been talking about the composition, or the overall appeal.

I agree with both you and CybrGfx that placing that taking the buildings off of the grid and placing them in an oval, or fish eye, calls attention to the platform in the center of the painting. I didn't mention it before because I wasn't talking about composition. (Maybe I should remember talk about the entire piece next time I jump into one of these critic threads.)

Now I'm not going to get into an arguement about artistic license with CybrGfx because when and where to use it is a matter of opinion. No matter what you do, you will find that some people agree with you, and some people will disagree with you. In the end, you are the painter, and this is your painting.

I am interested in seeing this completed. Some perverse part of me likes the concept of an open air traffice jam.

Great talking here m8. I Use your critics tjust like i use the critics of CyberGfx and i am planning to do some things over.

Thanks for walking by, and i hope i can do some things on this drawing next week!

[CybrGfx]

Saw this at the Huffington Post, and thought you might appreciate the inspiration...
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/6678/aigxi9.jpg
Try and get a clean vanishing point off that! LOL!

The image is coming along nicely. Hang in there.

~C

[EndoTouch]

Really only if all buildings are related in a very specific way will they all line up if you use the corners as reference. Artistic license should be used whenever there is a grey area, and in a sense must be used as there is no definitive way things are.

Perspective lines only show how big things are at given distances, as long as the building recede at appropriate magnitude the image is correct. To say that by extending the edges to a single vanishing point represents reality is false. The paint over from Jebas assumes the buildings are aligned and importantly drastically changes where the bases are.

Again I want to say the perspective grids should not be used to show where edges are. Edges should not point to a central point unless there is symbolic meaning to do so.

I do think that the mid left building, the one with the sloped roof looks odd though. Hope to see an update soon.

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