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NOV
06-12-2003, 01:57 PM
hi all,

I am really glad I have the chance to enter the challenge. Here is a character I have been waiting to do. The title will be named [Wandering Stars] which will be released on Sony PS2 and Nintendo GameCube. It is an Action RPG (eg. Chaos Legion, Onimusha...) game, while the battle system is more like in Chaos Legion, the story line is as deep as Final Fantasy series.

The story is about Mirai (the main character) finding his destiny and knowing what the destiny means to him. I will post the story and character setting for you guys to better understand the design of Mirai (they needs to be translate into English properly).

This is my first time creating character for game, any tip or critique are very welcome :-D

enough words, here are some sketches:

lildragon
06-12-2003, 05:51 PM
Welcome to the challenges! Don't mind me I'm just reserving my spot for what could be a great show ;)

-lild

AdamAtomic
06-12-2003, 05:56 PM
I think this is a real promising sketch - I'm definitely staying tuned to this one. Will he be toting the standard WAY oversized sword? :D

Apt Pupil
06-13-2003, 12:38 AM
I agree with the above, with such a good sketch, this should be one to watch out for:)

Great start:beer:

NOV
06-13-2003, 01:56 AM
thanks for the reply, guys.
here is a design sheet for Ciel (my girl friend came up with this new name and I like it a lot! :D). here shows a little more detail on his costume design and other elements relate to the story line.

NOV
06-13-2003, 02:04 AM
my apology for the link above. I just found out the dir is not open to pubic. I will try to find a place to upload again. sorry!

hanzo
06-13-2003, 05:14 AM
:beer: :buttrock: :xtreme:

dude your excellent character art just made me decide to enter, thanks man.

NOV
07-01-2003, 12:04 PM
Finally I am back online! sorry for the big gap between the last post. I am ready to keep you guys posted :)

NOV
07-01-2003, 12:35 PM
okay...

here is my model sheet from couple weeks ago. I decide to make Ciel a little younger than I originally designed. This younger version will actually be played through the first half of the story.

http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/Ciel_ModelSheet.gif

NOV
07-01-2003, 12:51 PM
very quick color sketches to find out the color scheme I like. I wanted the main elements to be black and white which suits his job (a Royal Knight) better. and gold gives the sense of elegant and royalty. I am thinking to add red or purple as well but it might be too much...

anyway, I think I like ver.2.

ver.1
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/Ciel_ColorTest1.jpg

ver. 2

http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/Ciel_ColorTest2.jpg

NOV
07-01-2003, 10:09 PM
okay.... this is what I have done in the past few weeks. Model in poly is very new for me, but man, I have a lots of fun (problems as well... :surprised). comments are very welcome!

[Head]

-Front
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/WIPSS/Ciel_WIPSS_Headfront.jpg

-Back
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/WIPSS/Ciel_WIPSS_Headback.jpg

NOV
07-01-2003, 10:11 PM
[Jacket]

-Front
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/WIPSS/Ciel_WIPSS_JacketFront.jpg

-Back
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/WIPSS/Ciel_WIPSS_JacketBack.jpg

[Arm]

http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/WIPSS/Ciel_WIPSS_ArmHand.jpg

NOV
07-01-2003, 10:26 PM
[Lower Body]

-Pants Front
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/WIPSS/Ciel_WIPSS_PantsFront.jpg

-Pants Back
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/WIPSS/Ciel_WIPSS_PantsBack.jpg

NOV
07-01-2003, 10:27 PM
[Leg]

-Front
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/WIPSS/Ciel_WIPSS_LegFront.jpg

-Back
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/WIPSS/Ciel_WIPSS_LegBack.jpg

CGmonkey
07-01-2003, 10:36 PM
Awesome.. Looks truely awesome :)

I don't know about the rules, but is it allowed to use concepts prior when the challenge starts? You posted that concept some time in early May.

Anyway.. Looking really good sofar! :thumbsup:

NOV
07-01-2003, 10:53 PM
Model sheet and actual model side by side:

http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/WIPSS/Ciel_WIPSS_HalfBody.jpg

Model w/ traditional 3 pts lighting

http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/WIPSS/Ciel_WIPSS_FullBody3PLight.jpg

NOV
07-01-2003, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by CgMonkey
Awesome.. Looks truely awesome :)

I don't know about the rules, but is it allowed to use concepts prior when the challenge starts? You posted that concept some time in early May.

Anyway.. Looking really good sofar! :thumbsup:

oops! although I don't remember seeing that rule in the official guidelines. thanks for pointing that out. I will double check the rules again. besides, as long as I am getting feedbacks from you guys... I am happy :-)

thanks again for the comment!

Apt Pupil
07-01-2003, 11:27 PM
I don't think you need to have a new concept, there are a few people who are already using old concepts and one is not even using his own. I believe as long as the model is new (since this is what the challenge is about) then you should be fine.

Otherwise, it's looking ace [NOV]!! How many polies are you up to so far?

Ivars
07-02-2003, 06:30 PM
That model looks super! You made an excellent job. Could we see a polycount on that? Looks like youŽve made a good use of those polys.

Lee3dee
07-02-2003, 07:44 PM
Model looks awesome :). it really follows the concept really well. looking forward to seeing your texturing too.:beer:

I have a side question for u. Whats life like at Gnomon? I was looking at going there in the future perhaps. Can u give me some feedback about it.

NOV
07-02-2003, 09:31 PM
apt pupil, Ivars> thanks for the feedback, guys :) I am glad you like it. the current poly counts are 3038 faces. please refer to the image below.

Hirigashi> thanks for the comment, Hirigashi. Life in Gnomon is... work work sleep work. At gnomon, you learn from the best (at least one of the best). The environment is very competitive. At the end of term, you get to see what everybody else was doing and Alex and Darran will critique term. you are surrounded with many talented people and teachers who are willing to share their knowledge with you. well, I guess I can talk about this forever. Please send me an email (marklai@sent.com) if you would like to know more about it. :)

NOV
07-02-2003, 09:49 PM
oops, forgot the image :P here we go!
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/polycount.gif

NOV
07-02-2003, 09:59 PM
okay.. Although I am done with my UVs. I really don't know if I am using the UV space efficient enough. All I was doing is to get rid of the streachness as much as possible. If you guys have any suggestion, please let me know. thanks a lot!

Sheet A
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/UVlayoutA.jpg

Sheet B
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/UVlayoutB.jpg

*please let me know if you guys can't read the image well.

Ivars
07-02-2003, 10:07 PM
It looks to me like youŽre using the UV-space pretty efficient.
Looking forward to see your texture.
Do you know that the polygoncounter in Maya donŽt count tris?
YouŽll have to triangulate your mesh to see the correct facecount....

Anyway, good luck.

NOV
07-02-2003, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by Ivars
It looks to me like youŽre using the UV-space pretty efficient.
Looking forward to see your texture.
Do you know that the polygoncounter in Maya donŽt count tris?
YouŽll have to triangulate your mesh to see the correct facecount....

Anyway, good luck.

:surprised oh man... now I feel embarrassed... I am actually way over my poly budge?!

it reads 5810 faces after I triangulate the model:blush: I guess that makes me disqualify for the challege. oh well, I am still going to finish the porject just for fun. I guess there are still much for me to learn in making assets for game

Ivars
07-02-2003, 10:42 PM
Sorry to bring you such bad news. :sad:

NOV
07-02-2003, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Ivars
Sorry to bring you such bad news. :sad:

Not at all! I consider this a good news because this is curcial when I am preparing my portfolio. I am just embrrassed about not knowing that. thanks again for pointing that out! ^__^>

Apt Pupil
07-02-2003, 11:30 PM
oh boy, that's a shame dude. I figured you were already over, that's why I asked. Over at cgchat.com, quite a few people who start off have that problem with their models as well. If you can't get the polycount down for this one, I am sure you will have a great model in the next contest you enter.

Otherwise, your proportions and style for this character was ace, hope to see more of your work in the future.

:beer:

Digital Ninja
07-02-2003, 11:51 PM
U HAVE TO FINISH IT!!!! Who cares about the challenge, this is a great model! Definatley something you will want to have in your portfolio.

-DN

ckaos@om
07-03-2003, 03:31 AM
THis is quite simply one of the best models i've seen for a while !!
Concept and model are in on the SquareSoft level !, i just bow before you!:thumbsup:

NOV
07-03-2003, 11:14 AM
hey thanks a lot for the reply, guys!

apt> I kind of figure that out during the process as well. I couldn't change it just because I have already started UV unwrap the model. Otherwise I would totally remodel the whole thing again. anyway, you should see more of my stuff coming in the furture :)

DN> I sure am going to continue working on this one. In fact, I have already started to texture Ciel. looking forward to see more of you stuff as well :)

ckaso@om> wow, I am fluttered! I really am trying hard to get to the level at SquareEnix.... I hope someday I will:thumbsup:

spacemunky
07-03-2003, 08:18 PM
hey great model you have there. If you want to see your poly count in real time in maya just download the bonus game package from alias. It has a real time Triangle counter in it as well as some helpful tools. Also don't give up on the challenge yet, I was looking at your wires and you can easily remove some loops in the face especially in the mouth and eye region that would take your count way down. Remember that in most games you will not have complex facial animation and most of those great loops will go to waste. Also I would use the fact that you can dead end loops into triangles without it being a bad thing. I know sometimes when you get good at edgelooping its a hard habit to break, but you'll get used to it. Good luck with the challenge, looks great so far.

CENOBITE
07-03-2003, 09:39 PM
Yah, just save the guy you have now and load it up and create a low-poly version! The mesh seems quite efficient in many places... it shouldnt diminish it's quality too much to weld vertices here and there. Keep up the good work!

NOV
07-03-2003, 10:04 PM
spacemunky,CENOBITE> wow! what a valuable comment!! this is why I like this forum so much. Many thanks for sharing tip with me. once quick question, I don't quite understand what "dead end loops into triangles " means. and how do I utilize that technique? Thanks a lot!!

spacemunky
07-03-2003, 10:13 PM
what i meant by that is. When you have a loop going all the way around the figure or the head...you can dead end the loop into a triangle instead of having it carry all the way around. Sometimes you need deatil locally but not across the whole model.

NOV
07-04-2003, 02:04 AM
I see. it is a good way to save ploycounts. I should practice how to excercise the idea better. thanks! :thumbsup:

tmt
07-04-2003, 08:14 AM
Hey dude, your model is soo cool, don't give up! Optimize the mesh a little bit, and you'll get that poly count :) Go on!

NOV
07-04-2003, 10:20 AM
tmt> thanks! I am not sure if I can alter the geomatry after laying out the UV. therefore, I am going to finish the texture first then go back to reduce the poly counts as much as it needs to be. just in case I fail, at least there a finished one :)

NOV
07-04-2003, 11:11 AM
Now... the fun part~ this is what I have so far. Still working on the leg.

Texture sheet A
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/Renders/Ciel_Texture_A.jpg

Texture sheet B
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/Renders/Ciel_Texture_B.jpg

can't wait to do some render:drool:

NOV
07-04-2003, 11:22 AM
How Ciel looks in real time>

-Front
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/Renders/Ciel_Shaded_RT_Front.jpg

-Back
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/Renders/Ciel_Shaded_RT_Back.jpg

hmm... the hair is not working :( somehow I can't get the transparentcy show up in real time. any idea? otherwise, everthing seems just the way I wanted :)

NOV
07-04-2003, 11:25 AM
I know this is not neccessary, but... couldn't help it :P Renders>

-Front
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/Renders/Ciel_Shaded_Front.jpg

http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/Renders/Ciel_Shaded_Front2.jpg

NOV
07-04-2003, 11:28 AM
-Back
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/Renders/Ciel_Shaded_Back1.jpg

http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/Renders/Ciel_Shaded_Back2.jpg

notice there are some issues where the hair is intersecting with the collor. that should be an easy fix. really need to go back and work on the hair texture more!

Supervlieg
07-04-2003, 03:26 PM
Thats some real nice texturing, awesome job!

Apt Pupil
07-04-2003, 04:33 PM
dude, you are allowed to render your model, you don't have to show it in real time. So render away!!

Otherwise, you certainly have been busy, it's looking excellent!! The only thing that's kind of wierd is his butt. If you are not already planning to, perhaps some creases at the bottom and between his legs would suggest he has a butt that moves with his legs:)

Other then that, wery nice work:beer:

NOV
07-04-2003, 10:53 PM
supervlieg> thanks! I really enjoyed painting the texture.

Apt Pupil> I felt exactly the same way... his butt is too clean and smooth. thanks for the suggestion!! I will keep working on it after the fireworks tonight :D

baaah888
07-05-2003, 12:01 AM
is that just 2 512x512 maps, Wow :applause:

im still learing the texturing side but thats fantastic keep up the good work.:thumbsup:

rAndall
07-05-2003, 09:17 AM
Great work on this guy! Im really diggin the model and textures.. looks straight out of a Final Fantasy game.

Virtuoso
07-06-2003, 10:40 PM
Looking good.Nice color tones,nice modeling .hey don't forget the XBOX 2 and PS3 are coming.Games are already being developed,more polys....:drool:

So get a few more in,no one will mind.;)

Anyways I like the look and feel here,nice style and well executed.:beer:

Digital Ninja
07-07-2003, 12:29 AM
Wow, the textures look just as elegant as the model, how long did they take you? and did you make them in 512, or did you work larger and shrink them down?

Either way it looks very sweet, the style reminds of a mix between The Bouncer and FFX.

Nice job !!

-DN:surprised

NOV
07-07-2003, 03:10 AM
hey thanks for the reply, guys!

Virtuoso> Good point! since you brought it up, just curious that is it a good idea to include model like this (a bit high in poly counts) in the demo reel? I would love to hear everybody's idea about this :D

Digital Ninja> I am so glad you mention the two games that inspired me a lot. The art style and the costum designs by Nomura are just amazing. especially the silver accessories... that's just me :D
As the matter of fact, I did work at the higher rez and shrink it down for one of the texture sheet. the results are quite similair. right now I am just working straight at 512. and the textures I have done so far took me about 2-3 days.

more updates coming up!;)

baaah888
07-07-2003, 07:27 PM
you asked for opinions so i'll give you mine :)

the fact that PS3 XBOX2 GC2 are all coming out soon doesn't mean developers will look at throwing around polys, look at GTA vice city its a huge low poly environment,

I would include the character in my demo reel, as its a fantastic model thats very nicely textured, and if its about 4000 tris then it is relatively low poly. but if you want to be a game modeller like i do i was advised to have models varying from 700 tris to 5000 tris in my low poly section, and show that i dont need masses of polys to create good game art. the advice was from an ex acclaim employee so i'll go along with it.

hope that helps :)


Oh and a bit of crit, after looking at your textures closer, I noticed the zip doesn't have the same size zip bits all the way up the jacket.

NOV
07-08-2003, 12:22 AM
baaah888> great opinion! I agree it's definitely crucial to have low rez model in the demo reel. My plan is to include 3 models (one for cinematic, two for real time), fully textured and lightly animated in the reel. one of them will also implemented with LOD (maybe up to 3 level). Hopefully I will have 2 more models done before the term ends. thanks again for the great comment:thumbsup:

>yes, the zip bits are not identical in size. thanks for pointing that ou. I will fix it by tweaking the UV layout a little better.

Digital Ninja
07-08-2003, 01:13 AM
Hey NOV,

I was wondering if you could tell me how you created his head, I like how smooth the mesh turned out. Did you just create it from a box? Or did you SubDivide it at any point?

I am just trying to figure out how you did such a nice job on it. If you could maybe fill me in with a brief process on how you created it I would be greatful.

Thanks.

-DN:surprised

NOV
07-08-2003, 12:15 PM
Digital Ninja> of course! I would to share what I know with you. to be honest, this is my first time model in poly. I didn't have a good idea how to approach it. I didn't want to use NURBS to patch modeling the head, either. I will learn nothing if I did. therefore, I did a little research on modeling with poly online. the best tutorial I have found so far is the following:

http://www.3dtotal.com/

find the tutorial "Modeling Joan of Arc by Michel Roger" under "Free stuff>Tutorial". I basically learn how to use poly by referencing this tutorial. it helped me tremendously. I am sure it will help you as well.

I also noticed the model sheet is very important. more precise, the better. it will save you a lots of time. hope this helps. :)

Digital Ninja
07-08-2003, 06:03 PM
Hey NOV,

Thanks a bunch, that joan of arc tutorial is really well done and most helpful! It's quite interesting how he goes about making the head using planes instead of a cube. Cheers :beer:

-DN

hanzo
07-10-2003, 02:20 AM
O_O NOV this is some great work, truly inspiring :buttrock: as I understand you are native to nurb modeling?:thumbsup:
by your poly modeling I can asume that you must be really something else at nurb.

by any chance could you derect me to some good nurb modeling tuts, that are also inspiring?

Thanks in advance...

NOV
07-12-2003, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by hanzo

by any chance could you derect me to some good nurb modeling tuts, that are also inspiring?

Thanks in advance...

Hanzo> Thanks a lot for your comment. I am really glad you liked my stuff. as for the tutorials on nurb modeling. I usually check out ether GnomonOnline.com or total3d.com . both of the placese have really good tutorial on the subject. I will send you couple mroe links that I found on line shortly :)

NOV
07-12-2003, 08:44 AM
some more update!

Butt Fixed
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/Ciel_WIPSS_butt.jpg

NOV
07-12-2003, 08:45 AM
the Leg...

-Front
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/Ciel_WIPSS_Foot_Front.jpg

-Back
http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/Ciel_WIPSS_Foot_Back.jpg

Virtuoso
07-12-2003, 11:10 AM
Turned out well,it's low poly,not my true love,I like lots of polys to spank around personally,after all those years of having to count them,it's sooo fun to spank them when you get a chance.:p

I think you gave this a real good showing.Well done.:thumbsup: :beer:

NOV
07-12-2003, 11:48 AM
Virtuoso> same here. I love hi-rez stuff. glad you like my character. thanks for the comment :)

NOV
07-12-2003, 11:52 AM
okay... at last. I didn't have time to pose him ( really wished I had the time to. it would be so much cooler). here is my final image for the challenge. please enjoy.

[Ciel Hoshizora]

--final submition--

http://www.sh2productions.com/shihhao/Game_Ciel/finalLayout_Large.jpg

tobe90
07-12-2003, 03:53 PM
whats the polycount, now at the end of your project?

pedantic
07-12-2003, 05:41 PM
Looks great, love the detail. It's a shame you couldn't pose him though :hmm:

bugo
07-12-2003, 10:46 PM
trully awesome, if Im not wrong you used Maya for this... inst it!?

great character, design, textures and modeling, really nice model... :)

Apt Pupil
07-13-2003, 04:29 AM
Oh boy, such wonderful work, but, not posing him might seriously cripple your chances. Nevertheless, you got my 5 points dude:thumbsup: I really like this kid, and the patterns and white/grey placement is really well put.

Hope to see you in the next challenge:beer:

Chris88
07-13-2003, 08:12 AM
This is a great model. Great texture work also. Are you going to work with it other that this? Maybe add a pose and scene or even animation? That would be delightful! Anyway, Good luck!

NOV
07-13-2003, 05:59 PM
Thanks a lot for the comments, guys. Sorry I couldn't reply any earlier. I had to go away for the weekends :cry:

tobe> I think the final P.count is somewhere around 5000. I was mistaked with the P. count in Quads (instead of Tris) showing on the head display in maya. oops, I should have inculded the poly counts on the final submit.

bugo> yes, the project was done in maya 4.5 :)

Apt Pupil > I would have posed him if I had the time... I just don't have enough time for everything sometimes. but hey, guess what, I am rigging him right now. I won't stop unitl he is competely done. :D

btw, nice design on your character. I like it the details a lot!

Chris88> yes! I definitely will keep working on him. There are still a lot more need to be done with. like you said, some animation would be very nice. thanks!

Jadzia Dax
07-13-2003, 07:28 PM
oO :)

NOV
07-15-2003, 02:18 AM
alright.. i just finished rigging and skinning Ciel :thumbsup: i should be able to post up few poses and maybe a little animation if I have more time!

Chris88
07-15-2003, 02:34 AM
Wowy great! I'm anxious for more! :)

Apt Pupil
07-17-2003, 07:41 PM
Hey there [NOV], when you have something to show, at this point you should probably show it in the finished gallery section. Just be sure it's finished heheh

Otherwise, I would really like to see him finished.

Until then:wavey:

NOV
07-17-2003, 08:24 PM
Chris88> it's coming... :P I have a test animation on Ciel right now. but I dont understand why Maya crashes everytime I am trying to render with 3d motion blur. still trying to figure out the problem.

AP> oops, I guess you are right. I should open a new thread in that section :P thanks for reminding me, AP!

NOV
07-18-2003, 12:41 PM
just posted some new stuff up. please check it out, guys :)

New thread :-) (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76465)

spakman
07-20-2003, 08:42 AM
you need to be in games right now. Serious.

Bahamut2
07-24-2003, 03:47 PM
AWESOME, SIMPLY AWESOME :)

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