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fktt
10-26-2008, 03:20 AM
http://river-valley.tv/conferences/blender_conference_2008/

So, only the last day of the 3-day conference is left,
some of the first recording are starting to apear on the net! :D

and as lately the amount of blender users active on these boards is growing,
I suppose it might be worth it to post this here, if not, oh well.

Two that might be of interest for even non blender heads I suppose:

Keynote and conference schedule - Ton Roosendaal
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3052/2969479284_1a86a94319.jpg?v=0
Ton Roosendaal during his keynote speech.
He talked about the projects that were realized the last few years
(Big Buck Bunny, Yo Franky), and the projects coming up,
Durian and Mango (Live-action, SFX)


The evolution of Blenders User Interface - William Reynish
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3187/2968635813_aa1de1eefa.jpg?v=0
William Reynish talking about his plans for the Blender GUI.
He gave a complete overview of all the good,
and bad things in the Blender GUI at the moment,
and how these could be improved.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3025/2969479408_f7507fbe78.jpg?v=0
William Reynish's GUI Mockup,
containing just some of his ideas about the future Blender GUI

...and some other's to be found there, also more to be added... :)
http://river-valley.tv/conferences/blender_conference_2008/

Layer01
10-26-2008, 09:17 AM
Awesome stuff :D

I got to say, I'm really looking forward to the GUI changes. Thats one of the main things holding me back from blender atm.

paintbox
10-26-2008, 09:31 AM
Indeed. Everyone and his pet godzilla is waiting for an UI refreshment. Almost every thread on Blender is turned into a "WAAAH I don't the like the interface" outcry.

Personally I think it is very usable, just follow a few basic tutorials, start to learn shortcuts and your away Blendering. The first steps are steep, but at a point early on you see the logic, IMO.

Time to look at the vids...thanks for posting fktt

ThomasMahler
10-26-2008, 09:37 AM
That looks neat and tidy. Great to see Blender getting better and better :)

Layer01
10-26-2008, 10:37 AM
Indeed. Everyone and his pet godzilla is waiting for an UI refreshment. Almost every thread on Blender is turned into a "WAAAH I don't the like the interface" outcry.

Personally I think it is very usable, just follow a few basic tutorials, start to learn shortcuts and your away Blendering. The first steps are steep, but at a point early on you see the logic, IMO.

Time to look at the vids...thanks for posting fktt


Or it could be that maybe there is a reason people are complaining about its UI/workflow.

The points raised in the talk on UI development were excellent, it does have some great aspects, but its also got some retarded ones. The fact that they are working on them is great, and from the speech I'd say they are heading in good directions.

All this "buck up and deal with it" talk is crap.
Its all about building a user base and growing blender, so they are right to take a good long look at how they are doing things and improve on them.
Obviously Blender will always have its own uniqueness that will need to be learned, but as outlined in the video they can certainly do a lot to make it a vastly better app for both new and pro users.

I personally am really looking forward to the 2.5 release as i think it will be an exciting new stage in blenders evolution.

paintbox
10-26-2008, 11:09 AM
Layer01 : I failed to mention that I agree the UI should use an overhaul. I hope it will be sooner than later. Its just that some jump the "UI is unusable" bandwagon too soon in my view.

gent_k
10-26-2008, 11:11 AM
Actually there are quite a few things the commercial apps can learn from the Blender GUI, but some workflow choices are really weird.

The main problem for me is always the Selection system. It just is too alien compared to anything else. Obviously some of the panels that look like some aircraft cockpit can definitely be made more user friendly

(and these thing are the first that give an overall impression, good or bad, to a new user)

DuttyFoot
10-26-2008, 11:23 AM
wow, this is pretty cool. blender is improving nicely.

Sandr0
10-26-2008, 11:34 AM
Great news - UI is the only reason that keeps me away from blender :)

I know Blender interface does make sense, and in some cases it's even better than any other app out there - but lots of people have to jump from app to app quite often (especially modelers) And keeping all those quirks and keyboard shortcuts in your head is painful enough. Adapting to a completely new interface can be very time-consuming in this fast paced world and not always possible :)

Layer01
10-26-2008, 12:05 PM
Layer01 : I failed to mention that I agree the UI should use an overhaul. I hope it will be sooner than later. Its just that some jump the "UI is unusable" bandwagon too soon in my view.

Yeah that's fair enough, i agree with you 100% :)

I think as it is blender has improved its UI heaps from its earlier iterations.

gent_k: yep I also agree, it was interesting to see his break down of how other apps compare UI wise to blender, and how Modo (which I think many would consider has a very advanced UI) is actually very similar to blender.

fabman
10-26-2008, 12:07 PM
Great news - UI is the only reason that keeps me away from blender :)

I know Blender interface does make sense, and in some cases it's even better than any other app out there - but lots of people have to jump from app to app quite often (especially modelers) And keeping all those quirks and keyboard shortcuts in your head is painful enough. Adapting to a completely new interface can be very time-consuming in this fast paced world and not always possible :)

I agree with you, I been coming and going from blender for the UI, and one of the thing that pisses me off more is the snap system, IMHO it's the worst I have worked in my life.

Mordachai
10-26-2008, 01:50 PM
OMG! They turn Ton and William in zombies! :D

Well, with a GUI like that they will have to buy new servers to the 2.50 release. Everyone in the world slightest interested in 3D CG will give Blender a try... again...

Rezonance
10-26-2008, 01:53 PM
I really enjoyed the UI video. Gonna watch more. I think Blender is a prime example of how great open source software can be. My greatest hope is that they improve the render engine, then Blender would be near perfect.

fktt
10-26-2008, 02:49 PM
My greatest hope is that they improve the render engine, then Blender would be near perfect.

I on the other hand hope they first improve the external renderer integartion pipeline(API/ABI),
and then also improve the internal. :)

blenderhead
10-26-2008, 03:10 PM
I'm actually liking that sneak peak at a possible new UI. Very clean and organized! Although undoubtedly it will take lots of re-learning for people who are already users; this is the one thing I don't like about blender. Hell of a complaint to have though, considering its because Blender has more updates that commercial packages!

Please Autoca$$$h...don't try to buy Blender! :D

Rezonance
10-26-2008, 05:27 PM
I'm actually liking that sneak peak at a possible new UI. Very clean and organized! Yeah I love the new look too! :D I hope this gets implemented.

jesterking
10-26-2008, 09:15 PM
To keep tabs on the GUI development, you can follow my youtube channel at http://www.youtube.com/nletwory

Note that there's currently only the first from begin this year, but once Blender Conference 2008 is properly over, I'll be making sure you get demos from our WIP as much as I can give you.

Anyway, the talks were nice to watch via live feed! Hope to be there next year :)

/Nathan

Strang
10-26-2008, 10:54 PM
i am watching the GUI talk from william reynish, if the things that he is mentioning get done i think blender can continue to grow into the professional market.

william says they should continue not paying attention to what other applications are doing and lets innovate, but many of the suggestions he is making are already present in the applications i use daily ( max and xsi ). so what i am saying is they should pay attention to how other UIs are being done, and innovate elsewhere or on areas that aren't so reliant on users accepting blender as a tool they would use daily.

Ballo
10-27-2008, 02:42 AM
good beginning. I hoped a new UI clean and versatil!

LeFaquin
10-27-2008, 03:20 AM
Note that there's currently only the first from begin this year, but once Blender Conference 2008 is properly over, I'll be making sure you get demos from our WIP as much as I can give you.
/Nathan

Awesome ! I really enjoyed looking at these.

Even if I use Blender, I agree with William on a lot of things, especially the Ultra Messy Buttons panel (oh god, the Render buttons), I think it's the worst thing in the interface since the rest of it is really good.

fanglee
10-27-2008, 07:24 AM
well,i ,d like very much`

DingTo
10-27-2008, 08:53 AM
Yeah i am also very happy with these plans for the UI. Everythings sounds logical and looks also nice.

Sonk
10-27-2008, 12:01 PM
I like the guy mock-up except for one thing, the row of icons on top. Personally i would prefer some text, or icon+text, that way it would be quicker navigate thru them. Looking forward to 2.5 though.

cresshead
10-27-2008, 12:13 PM
some great ideas in that video on the new u.i.

a verticle panel will work so much better if you can have it at any defined size to accomodate the buttons needed within such as a long panel for particle settings and a short panel for some basic tools/tasks....sound quite abit like what's in 3dsmax with it's command panel

also having the create, adjust workflow rather than adjust create is quite 3dsmax, maya, lightwave and xsi...in addition having the option of a history stack would be quite like 3dsmax, maya and xsi...all good moves in my opinion.

one thing i like in max is to reset a spinner for say angle or percentage is that you can right hand click on it ad that resets it.

also in lightwave you can select many lights and globally adjust their properties, same with some of the surface panel settings in lightwave too.

as for keying properties, in 3dsmax it highlights in red if you have autokey on and over in lightwave you have an envelope button wich you can open an key values into....i think the hilight in a colour idea from max is quite good.

the drag and drop features look like a really nice step forward too.


overall i'm very positive on where 2.5 is heading.


with this split u.i approach you might also hae some defaults set up to select for some tasks..in toonboom studio for instance you can have a drawing mode and an animating mode where the u.i is re arranged with the most used panels for that task...

so maybe a modeling, texturing, animating, fluids, lighting modes to quickly set up a pre configed set of button panels to open up...and some user areas to save to as well of course.

cresshead
10-27-2008, 12:21 PM
I like the guy mock-up except for one thing, the row of icons on top. Personally i would prefer some text, or icon+text, that way it would be quicker navigate thru them. Looking forward to 2.5 though.

if it's icon only then you'll need tool tips to help out until the users remember what the icons mean...icon design is VERY imortant and NOT easy to design...though you can take a look at what other apps use and get some ideas on wat works well.

86point5
10-27-2008, 01:04 PM
with this split u.i approach you might also hae some defaults set up to select for some tasks..in toonboom studio for instance you can have a drawing mode and an animating mode where the u.i is re arranged with the most used panels for that task...


Actually, this is already part of Blender - though it is often overlooked. If you look in the top header bar, right after the menus is a dropdown box that probably says something like "SR:2 Model" - if you look into that dropdown you'll see other presets for screen layouts for animation, scripting, etc. You can change these or even add your own. You can change via the drop-down or by using the ctrl-left/ctrl-right hotkeys.

kili
10-27-2008, 03:36 PM
Actually, this is already part of Blender - though it is often overlooked. If you look in the top header bar, right after the menus is a dropdown box that probably says something like "SR:2 Model" - if you look into that dropdown you'll see other presets for screen layouts for animation, scripting, etc. You can change these or even add your own. You can change via the drop-down or by using the ctrl-left/ctrl-right hotkeys.

I love this feature it rocks. Plus I love those nasty shortcuts people moan about, but I am a shortcut junky whatever program I'm using.

fktt
10-27-2008, 05:10 PM
just for those interested in more than the interface, another video has been added. :p

its titled "The how and what in teaching Blender". :)

Womball
10-27-2008, 05:41 PM
Are their abridged versions of these talks, that are just the highlights? They are quite long. Kind of hard to view them at work.

fktt
10-27-2008, 05:51 PM
I'm afraid I don't know of any, sorry. :(

Womball
10-27-2008, 06:11 PM
I'm listening to the William Reynish one now about the new interface. I will have this one done before the end of the work day. What are the topics covered in the last video?

fktt
10-27-2008, 06:28 PM
I'm listening to the William Reynish one now about the new interface. I will have this one done before the end of the work day. What are the topics covered in the last video?

What are the easy/hard things to teach to students about blender, there's also a note that those are students who even don't/barely know how to drag and drop a file from one folder to another. :p

ultramedia
10-27-2008, 09:16 PM
*edit* oops, someone aleady said that :)

Kanga
10-27-2008, 10:15 PM
Indeed. Everyone and his pet godzilla is waiting for an UI refreshment. Almost every thread on Blender is turned into a "WAAAH I don't the like the interface" outcry.

Yep, the UI isn't the worst I have seen. Everybody groans about zbrush's UI as well, when in fact at the end of the day it is what get pumped out that counts. I think artists should take a look at what has been produced with the application and draw conclusions from that.

I can't believe this stuff is free. I made sure its on all our school computers.

Hats off Blender boyz. Keep up the amazing work.
Off to watch a couple of the vids and thanx for the link.
Chris

lxy57124
10-28-2008, 03:21 AM
i don't know

Shenan
10-28-2008, 05:43 AM
Yep, the UI isn't the worst I have seen. Everybody groans about zbrush's UI as well, when in fact at the end of the day it is what get pumped out that counts. I think artists should take a look at what has been produced with the application and draw conclusions from that.

True, Kanga. After all this time reading about Blender and occasionally playing around with it, I finally decided to take a look at some work that's been done with it. There's some good work in their gallery - check it out if you've never seen it (it's brief and to the point in a single page): http://www.blender.org/features-gallery/gallery/art-gallery/

ChrisDNT
10-28-2008, 10:40 AM
I on the other hand hope they first improve the external renderer integartion pipeline(API/ABI),
and then also improve the internal. :)


Yep, I would so like to be able to use Blender with Fryrender!

Als
10-28-2008, 11:36 AM
What is the situation with yafray?
It says that there is no more support for it for blender?
And then there is new version 0.1.0, which replaces 0.0.9...
Could someone shad some light on this?
Also what are the alternative ways of rendering from blender?

Thanks


Als

Kanga
10-28-2008, 01:00 PM
google 'open source render engine', There are some like ogre 3d that are for games but there seems a decent list. You have always been able to buy stand alone engines like Maxwell and Brazil but they arn't cheap.

thisroomthatikeep
10-28-2008, 05:16 PM
If you're looking for un-biased renderers you can give Luxrender or Indigo a try. Luxrender is free software (libre) and Indigo renderer is free (gratis).

http://www.luxrender.net/

http://www.indigorenderer.com/joomla/

mtartist
10-28-2008, 06:23 PM
What is the situation with yafray?
It says that there is no more support for it for blender?
And then there is new version 0.1.0, which replaces 0.0.9...
Could someone shad some light on this?
Also what are the alternative ways of rendering from blender?

Thanks


Als

As far as I know Yafray is no longer being developed. The new version is now called Yaf(a)ray which has been written from scratch.

Other renderers are:
Kerkythea (raytracer)
Sunflow (raytracer)
LuxRender (unbiased)
Indigo (unbiased)

The most popular are Blender Internal and Yaf(a)ray. LuxRender and Indigo produce wonderful results but are dog slow because they work like Maxwell and hence are not suitable for animations.

Als
10-28-2008, 10:18 PM
google 'open source render engine', There are some like ogre 3d that are for games but there seems a decent list. You have always been able to buy stand alone engines like Maxwell and Brazil but they arn't cheap.

Thanks, but my question is more regarding what people really use in production.
Having something to play and experiment with is cool, but I wonder which one of those are proven to be production ready, thinking about open source render enginges.

As far as I know Yafray is no longer being developed. The new version is now called Yaf(a)ray which has been written from scratch.

Is new version compatible with new version of blender?
I've seen stills they look quite good, but what are render times, and is anyone using it do professional animations?

Thanks


Als

Shenan
10-29-2008, 04:44 AM
Looks like there are two more new videos posted at that page:

Implementing Lightcuts in Blender

Usage of blender game engine for scientific fishery data visualization

By the way, just out of curiosity, why is there such a strong presence of Italian presenters at the conference? Is blender particularly popular in Italy?

anoon
10-29-2008, 03:03 PM
I would love to learn more about Blender from these videos, but the volume is just unbelievably f'ing godawful. I have my control panel sounds maxed, and my speakers nearly cranked, and the dude keeps fading in and out. Then every other system sound on my machine rings in at earsplitting levels. Does the volume even out at some point?

It's 2008. Surely microphone technology can be mastered by now. Get it together.

EDIT: Ok, I muscled through. Great stuff. If that comes to be, I will very seriously give Blender a look.

ultramedia
10-29-2008, 09:16 PM
It's 2008. Surely microphone technology can be mastered by now. Get it together.

???

Would you like that done before or after we spit polish your toenails for you your royal highness? (walks backwards, bowing deeply).

fktt
10-29-2008, 09:46 PM
the list of videos has grown alot! just go check out for your selves:

http://river-valley.tv/conferences/blender_conference_2008/

! :D !

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