WIP Goat Girl

[voltageme5]

No image :(

[effenndee]

>>> Trying again with image hopefully attached this time!

Good day ^__^

I'm a newbie poster here but would like to get some advice if that's alright. Would you please take a look at my current WIP below?

My illustrative background has largely been anime style but I'm wanting to move away from that and learn how to paint digitally and more realistically rather than flat colour blacklines. A couple of tutorials I've seen have started with a grayscale image before moving into colour and that's what I'm hoping to do with this image.

Would you say that working from grays to colour is the better way to start digital painting or is it more of the individual's preference? Is it better to post WIPs in their earlier stages?

I've got a long way to go but I don't find myself improving/learning fast on my own. Any advice to help me (i.e. kick me) along would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp351/effenndee/art/Effenndee_Goat_Girl_01.jpg

If the above isn't visible please click on direct link here (http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp351/effenndee/art/Effenndee_Goat_Girl_01.jpg)

[secretasianman]

okie i saw the topic and said goat girl, well it is more of a girl with very big horns. not much in any characteristic of a goat.

the prob with the horns are they are to big to the point they almost look like something else then horns.

look at how the horns on a goat are arranged on the head and check the anatomy of the horns the horns can use a bit of retuneing.

[effenndee]

Thanks Secretasianman. Very good points about the title and horns. Will get onto reworking the horns right away! I should have put a lot more thought into the title before using, sorry >_<;;

[effenndee]

Hullo again ^__^

Sorry it's a bit dark and very rough but figured it'd be better to get an opinion on the new work before going ahead.

Does this look a bit better with the horns? Or still too big/unrealistic?

http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp351/effenndee/art/Effenndee_Goat_Girl_02.jpg

[EndoTouch]

effendee,
Its a nice portrait. I do think that the fabric could be done better. Really though I just wanted to ask why horns? If there is a story or myth to it maybe add some other elements to clarify.

Edit: Actually the fabric the first time looks good, it could have a sharper edge though to show its pleated better, if its not pleated making it more randomly folded would be an improvement.

[CybrGfx]

I liked the high contrast original version MUCH better. The new version is dull as old milk.

The goat horn thing is a conceptual mess all around.
Just look how Nature sizes and places goat horns...
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/03_02/FeralGoatDM_468x487.jpg
http://www.imyspacegraphics.com/images/goat/goat1.jpg

It looks more like you are attempting to put Big Horn sheep horns on her head, which would make her more of a "sheep girl..." ;)

We wont even go into the fact that it's the rams who have the fancy horns...
http://canadianbiodiversity.mcgill.ca/data/sppphotos/mammals/bighorn.jpg

I also liked the horns in the first version better...

The only real problem, besides her extremely painful shoulder anatomy (Shoulders are BALL socket-type joints...Yours look like flat, dented, painful things), is simply that you made her head too big, instead of adjusting the horns to better fit...
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2705/goatgirlce2.gif

I strongly suggest thad you definitely use a photo ref for the body. Too many anatomical mistakes, and if you color this, they will look even worse.

~C

[phoenix]

Hey effenndee the girl got a pretty nice expression its cool.... i like the overall concept and suggestions given by other members are pretty solid. but i would recommend to leave the shoulders alone contrary to what CybrGfx has said. CybrGfx is not wrong but the option you got adds to the flare but as CybrGfx mentioned do make them look like a BALL socket-type joint. but add the skin and muscle tension which you (accidently) got. btw as far as reference to anatomy goes, get urself a good big mirror and see you self in it. move your arms around and see how everything works. Also its a pretty nice thing to get your hands on those body buidling training books trust me they are worth it. sometimes more helpfull then normal anatomy books.


Regards

[effenndee]

Wow thank you for all the great critiques and pointers!

~EndoTouch
I'll rework the fabric once I've had a go at fixing the anatomy. I might see if I can get my hands on some material and create reference to refer to. Why horns? In the beginning I had more goat/sheep features like big ears and such on her but they looked terrible and I scrapped most of it except for the horns. They ended up becoming rather a feature in the image . _. Next time I make something I'm going to put a lot more thought into it >_<;

~CybrGfx
Thanks for all the reference and for the retouched image! Moving the horns down makes a huge difference (they now look like they're part of her head rather than sitting on her head XD). Dang... I completely stuffed the whole animal side of things. Hehe I should've turned the horns into a head piece and kept the woman human and called it "girl and horns" ;D Can't say I'm not learning a whole lot more this way though =)
I strongly suggest thad you definitely use a photo ref for the body. Too many anatomical mistakes, and if you color this, they will look even worse. Thank you I will get reference and hopefully get it right!

~phoenix
Thank you very much. The recommendations have been a great help from all - which is what I've been looking for so I'm pretty dang stoked! Looks like I've really got to get to the basics and learn anatomy - human and animal. That's great advice about the body building books. Shopping tomorrow I say!

Thanks again! Better get to it!

[phoenix]

Hey effenndee Pleasure is all mine..

As you mentioned animal anatomy, do go to the zoo and make quick sketches of the animals. In my point of view its the best way to learn and develop good sense of anatomy of animals and their motion.




Regards

[CybrGfx]

If you are not "old school" with the need to hold a physical, tactile book in your hand, download the Loomis artbooks and use those. You will be hard pressed to find any book better to learn from than the loomis volumes, and you cannot buy them anymore, except as collector's items...The Loomis family refuses to reprint them due to religous beliefs, I've read...

~C

[effenndee]

~phoenix
Thanks again ^____^ Unfortunately, I'm not all too close to a zoo... but that doesn't mean I can't find pictures and videos online! Cheers!

~CybrGfx
I've heard of the Loomis artbooks but have never read them so I'll get my hands/eyes on them thanks! :) Makes me wonder what religion the Loomis Family were...

Alrighty! I haven't gotten far with shading. Ok... I haven't gotten anywhere with the shading. But, I do have the sketch-base (below) that I'm going to continue working on if it looks better. The anatomical side of things will shine out the most as wrong or right when the shading is there but I've tried to rework the image to suit the title more.

The horns are (hopefully) now less of a massively ridiculous feature and can almost pass as goat-ish. I loved the "feral goat" ref CybrGfx attached earlier and tried to work that aspect into the hair. Then there's the new nose and ears which hopefully add to the goat-ish-ness :-S

The body I've kept human to help me get the anatomy right >_< The clothing I've started mapping in and will tidy as I go.

Apologies for the sketchy-mess as well as the badly-obvious image mirroring but any more advice would be welcomed!

http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp351/effenndee/art/Effenndee_Goat_Girl_03.jpg

[CybrGfx]

VERY nice update, here!

The thought that went into the image is now really starting to show. The changes from your original post to this one is the "secret" to being a good artist. The good artists can paint a purple turd coffee cup, and make it seem natural, although odd, while everyone else has difficulty making what is natural appear so without looking odd...

I LIKE the new forehead. You could still push the nose/mouth area a bit more, if you wanted, rounding and extending the cheekbone/nasal/jaw area. I've seen CGI of a goat or sheep-human, and it was visually feasable. Think a bit like the movie versions of "Planet of the Apes." But that is to take nothing away from this as it is. She is cute (although I'd suggest just a wee bit of curl to the hair, if not a lot - see 'caricul' references), and makes you wonder what a god like Zeus might have been up to... lol!

The breasts look a bit too large and "matronly," for a goat-girl, the first version had them just large for her age (although she was no longer a girl in that one, either...). Even goats seldom suffer from overly-large mammary teats, eh?

I'm very impressed with the time and thought you put into this. It really, really shows. Good job.

~C

[effenndee]

Sorry for such a delayed reply! I had hoped to reply faster with another update but it's taken a lot longer than I thought >_<;;

~CybrGfx
Wow... I was so stoked after your response you have no idea! Still am! I only hope I don't stuff it up with the shading . _. but coming from you it surely must mean I've improved! I don't think I've ever been as thorough with an artwork and it's been very rewarding. Thank you very much. (p.s. Loomis is fun!)

All the feedback from everyone has been really great in helping me improve this - thank you!

I've made some changes since last, with a few reductions around the chest area (CybrGfx thanks! They were rather large and funnily enough, lop-sided ;) ) and also a rework of the hair with a lot more curl (I found a great pic of a sun-bleached-haired sheep-thing that I hope to incorporate-
http://www.plfkarakuls.com/plfarabi.jpg)
I've still got another few lightening passes to go and intend to make the cloth a lot brighter but thought I'd update and get feedback on the anatomical side of things as well as the overall.

Any feedback, again, much appreciated.

http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp351/effenndee/art/Effenndee_Goat_Girl_04.jpg

p.s. phoenix~ got a couple body building magazines and man those people have muscles! XD

[CybrGfx]

This piece is TRULY impressive enough that you SHOULD be stoked.
Your interest and passion in "doing it right" make it SO interesting to look at. That is the highest achievement an artwork can truly have, is people truly enjoy looking at it!

Good find on the curly haired sheep/goat thing. Definitely gives this gal a good 'do.
I like the way you have adjusted the eyes, and the end of the nose. Subtle, yet needed to push the concept.

The breasts look much better, but the dress/tunic looks strange along the top center. The black shows behind the "gathered" fabric, which makes the fabric look like it is "floating" above the straps. Just get rid of the black behind the fabric, and you'll be fine.

The ears are a bit problematic. They look a bit too thin, and the bottoms are too crinkly. They resemble lettuce leaves more than flat, shaped, ruminant ears. Think less than a dog's ear, but more than a cat's, and fur covered...
http://blog.fotolog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/mallarenga.jpg

I'm glad you are enjoying creating this piece. That's the most important part of creation!

~C

[kakatekoyi]

seeing ur drawing transformed from one to another is amazing, u improved more than i expected after gone through some references.

the area between ur shoulder and the neck seems to be very thin, almost like a card, maybe u should soften the edge shadow to make it rounder

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