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Per-Anders
10-15-2008, 08:19 PM
Looks like CS4 is now shipping - www.adobe.com

Doesn't look too shoddy of an upgrade all in all.

Seems they're keen on making more money out of 3.3 owners on the sly though, it's hidden away that 3.3 users shouldn't be paying as much to upgrade and they make it inconvenient to upgrade for the correct price (phone only and physical shipment only unlike every other upgrade), effectively penalizing people that paid more. Pretty misleading and disingenuous to their customers.

L.Rawlins
10-15-2008, 09:48 PM
Are they still screwing the Brits? I've not run the numbers on the new versions yet but for some time now with the 'legacy' suites we've been getting absolutely forked.

biliousfrog
10-15-2008, 11:08 PM
well I just checked the upgrade price for my CS3 Production Premium and it's £20 MORE to download...you actually save £20 by having the box shipped to you!...how the hell does that work?

paintbox
10-16-2008, 07:56 AM
But why BilliousFrog...it's called capitalism. Adobe turned stuff around and figured at some point : since downloading is so much FASTER, people ought to pay MORE. And since there is no box...more $$$$$ for Adobe.

That's what I think ;)

CS4 is looks great. Time to upgradeth. I'll have the box thank you very much.

DDS
10-16-2008, 08:13 AM
Trial version keeps being unavailable...why would I buy something I haven't taken a look at? :shrug:

I had a look at the complete list of new features and it seemed a really good upgrad, GPU performance, 64 bit, canvas rotation...and a looong list of small fixes.

alexyork
10-16-2008, 09:15 AM
going to the adobe UK store:

upgrade from photoshop cs3 > photoshop cs4 win (box) = £163.32
upgrade from photoshop cs3 > photoshop cs4 win (download) = £168.19

mattwood
10-16-2008, 10:14 AM
Are they still screwing the Brits? I've not run the numbers on the new versions yet but for some time now with the 'legacy' suites we've been getting absolutely forked.

Absolutely...

Production Premium upgrade @ amazon.com: $595
Production Premium upgrade @ amazon.co.uk: $1070 :eek:

Thieves....

rayboy
10-16-2008, 12:35 PM
the reason a download is more expensive than the box version is that the download server is based in a country with a higher rate of VAT than the UK's.

http://www.scopulus.co.uk/taxsheets/european_vat_rates.htm

Lord knows why Adobe can't arrange UK downloads from the UK. Just part of their policy of shafting the Brits no doubt.

Buy it from toolfarm I say.

halo
10-16-2008, 12:42 PM
Lord knows why Adobe can't arrange UK downloads from the UK. Just part of their policy of shafting the Brits no doubt.



the fact that the UK download is byte for byte the same package as the US version, and comes off the same US servers make's Adobe's pricing even more disgusting.

The good news is that CS3 US versions upgraded, installed and register just the same as UK versions, so we'll be taking the chance again with CS4, and buying 2:1 from the US.

garryclarke
10-17-2008, 02:02 PM
Well I want to upgrade to the Production Premium. I don't have one of the Adobe packages, just a collection of individual packages (Photoshop, AfterEffects, Premiere etc).

The cost of the upgrade from Production Premium to the CS4 version is £ £605, not too bad. However as I have the individual apps they will only take one of these into account in which case the upgrade costs £1162, WTF! I might as well buy it new! And of course as a Brit I'm double screwed.

Looks like I'll stick to CS3

- Garry

SovereignKnight
10-17-2008, 07:00 PM
Adobe products are insanely priced to begin with. Does anyone know how or why the justify charging even more to the Brits? I'm just curious about this. It doesn't seem like it would be legal somehow...

biliousfrog
10-17-2008, 07:24 PM
There was a great blog article where a guy contacted Adobe to ask about the price differences. I'll try to find it.

One of the main reasons for the increased price outside of the US is because of translations into different languages funnily enough. Which doesn't explain why the UK version still uses US English or why the price isn't averaged out throughout all countries. There really isn't a legitimate reason, just that they can charge more because of demand for their product...same as Autodesk, Apple and any other brand starting with 'A'.

biliousfrog
10-17-2008, 07:29 PM
not the article I was looking for (there are thousands asking this question) but this has a response from Adobe: http://wildwinter.blogspot.com/2007/03/adobe-uk-prices.html

It is from 2007 but does clarify that you can buy from the US...not ideal but definitely what I'll be doing from now on.

Erka2
10-18-2008, 05:45 PM
Photoshop CS4 is dead slow for me, both non-GPU and GPU modes. Second one is even slower, because even painting is lagging!

Windows XP SP2, GeForce GTX280
Anyone else?

Veehoy
10-18-2008, 06:07 PM
There was a great blog article where a guy contacted Adobe to ask about the price differences. I'll try to find it.

One of the main reasons for the increased price outside of the US is because of translations into different languages funnily enough. Which doesn't explain why the UK version still uses US English or why the price isn't averaged out throughout all countries. There really isn't a legitimate reason, just that they can charge more because of demand for their product...same as Autodesk, Apple and any other brand starting with 'A'.
Maybe it was this? http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe.html

cheebamonkey
10-18-2008, 08:00 PM
Photoshop CS4 is dead slow for me, both non-GPU and GPU modes. Second one is even slower, because even painting is lagging!

Windows XP SP2, GeForce GTX280
Anyone else?

http://www.adobe.com/go/kb405064 (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.adobe.com/go/kb405064.)

combination
10-18-2008, 08:33 PM
Photoshop CS4 is dead slow for me, both non-GPU and GPU modes. Second one is even slower, because even painting is lagging!

Windows XP SP2, GeForce GTX280
Anyone else?

What kind of hardware have you got? CPU and RAM?

Erka2
10-18-2008, 08:46 PM
What kind of hardware have you got? CPU and RAM?
Intel q9450 @2,66, 4Gb Kingston 800.

CIM
10-18-2008, 09:04 PM
Trials for all products except those in Japanese should be available by mid-November 2008.

For anyone wondering.

Magnus3D
10-18-2008, 09:47 PM
Is CS4 still that laggy and slow ?! i heard of numerous users who can't even run it because it's crawling slow on their XP64 machines :( i woulda thought they test it on a OS which is still very popular and widely used. Maybe they only testran CS4 on XP32 and Vista..

Guess i will still have to stick to Gimp.

/ Magnus

combination
10-18-2008, 11:13 PM
Is CS4 still that laggy and slow ?! i heard of numerous users who can't even run it because it's crawling slow on their XP64 machines :( i woulda thought they test it on a OS which is still very popular and widely used. Maybe they only testran CS4 on XP32 and Vista..

Guess i will still have to stick to Gimp.

/ Magnus

XP64 is not supported. Another reason why I will be finally moving to Vista 64.

alexyork
10-19-2008, 11:06 AM
XP64 is not supported. Another reason why I will be finally moving to Vista 64.

do you have a link where this is confirmed?

if true this is seriously crap. my entire pipeline is xp64 and i wasn't going to move to vista64 until next year, but if this is true then I have little choice!

Steve Green
10-19-2008, 03:53 PM
I'd like to hear some confirmation on this as well. I've finally just switched over to XP64 on my new workstation and I've found that Premiere 6.5 doesn't work, and was considering going up to CS4.

However, if it's not supported I'm not switching to Vista 64 just for Adobe's sake - I've already got the hump with them over UK pricing...

doCHtor
10-19-2008, 03:57 PM
All the thinkable 2d and 3d apps (+ games) run just great on XP x64. Makes me wonder what's so special about Photoshop CS4. :rolleyes:

combination
10-19-2008, 04:33 PM
do you have a link where this is confirmed?

if true this is seriously crap. my entire pipeline is xp64 and i wasn't going to move to vista64 until next year, but if this is true then I have little choice!


I read it on Adobe forum.

Microsoft® Windows® XP with Service Pack 2 (Service Pack 3 recommended) or Windows Vista® Home Premium, Business, Ultimate, or Enterprise with Service Pack 1 (certified for 32-bit Windows XP and 32-bit and 64-bit Windows Vista)


It will probably run on XP64 but it is not supported or tested on it.

I'd like to hear some confirmation on this as well. I've finally just switched over to XP64 on my new workstation and I've found that Premiere 6.5 doesn't work, and was considering going up to CS4.

However, if it's not supported I'm not switching to Vista 64 just for Adobe's sake - I've already got the hump with them over UK pricing...

Get it from tool farm USA.

Johnpv
10-19-2008, 08:15 PM
I noticed this on the requirments page.

†Adobe Photoshop® Extended and Acrobat® Pro natively support 64-bit editions of Windows Vista. Adobe Premiere® Pro, After Effects®, Soundbooth®, Encore®, and Adobe OnLocation™ are certified on 64-bit Windows Vista.

It would sound to me, that only Photoshop Extended and Acrobat Pro are actually 64 bit and only on Vista. While the other apps have been tested to work on 64 bit Vista.

So 1 it looks like they're just skipping over any XP64 support. Which seems dumb to me since I'd imagine alot more people in this industry are on XP64 than Vista 64. 2 it looks they still haven't managed to bring most of their apps to native 64 bit support. I have to ask what is taking Adobe so long? How come almost every other graphics program developer has gotten native 64 bit applications out, and here we are still waiting on Adobe.

Magnus3D
10-19-2008, 09:00 PM
Micro$oft are probably pushing Adobe to drop support for XP64 so their customers will be forced to buy Vista instead. :(

/ Magnus

ryders
10-19-2008, 10:38 PM
go here... it works, but I wasn't impressed by the speed of photoshop. Maybe I'm expecting too much:

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b6c155

this is the gist of the reghack
As per the above: They have. Your GPU just may not be supported, regardless, because Adobe considers it "old" (or takes it as a quick excuse to blame all the problems on you and walk away with clean hands, depending on how you see it). You can set a registry key to enable it (at your own risk). Save the below to a *.reg file, then double-click to import it into the registry.

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Adobe\Photoshop\11.0]
"AllowOldGPUS"=dword:00000001

TJFrame
10-20-2008, 09:20 PM
I've been playing around with a demo and CS4 is absurdly sluggish on my system. I am running a 32 bit, 2.3 dual quad core with 4 gigs of ram and an 8800 GTS with 640MB of video ram. My system normally plows through photoshop, 3ds max, Painter etc. extremely well. It's not a state of the art system, but it's not chopped liver either.

Pretty much the only reason I was considering going to CS4 was the rotate canvas tool (which painter has had for as long as I can remember). I'm very dissapointed with how sluggish this bloated thing has become. Every release seems to get worse and worse.. Trying to paint with even the smallest and simplest of brushes is a joke.

BigPixolin
10-20-2008, 09:33 PM
Where did you get the demo I can't seem to find it?

SovereignKnight
10-20-2008, 09:37 PM
I've been pretty excited about Photoshop CS4, and I couldn't wait for it to be released, but now all I'm hearing are bad reviews about how slow it is. I'm glad I held off pulling the trigger. If Adobe won't address this issue, I'll stick with what I have.

Sad.

TJFrame
10-20-2008, 09:44 PM
Where did you get the demo I can't seem to find it?

It's the full version, just in trial mode. I got it from a another friend in the industry. Not sure exactly where he got it.

I won't be buying it either way though. In fact I uninstalled it already.

As someone who prefers Photoshop over Painter, it's frustrating to see things evolve this way. Photoshop has been very slow to cater to digital painters since the market share is extremely small compared to other niches. Painter has many nice features but I don't like its interface. I wish they would just copy Photoshop for things like layers, lassos, filters, adjustments etc. The simple lack of a decent line tool in Painter (one that doesn't automatically connect from point to point) is one of those things that I just can't understand. The selection rotate, scale, and warp tools are horrible compared to CS3. It may seem like minor quibbles, but when you rely a few tools so heavily, it's important that they are useable.

Give me CS3 with a few enhanced natural media tools and a rotateable canvas and I'd have been happy for at least 10 more years.

alexyork
10-20-2008, 11:57 PM
well, i used the lack of support (or functionality!) with xp64 as an excuse to upgrade to vista64. all is fine there so far. Photoshop CS4 should arrive in the next day or so - I'll post my experiences shortly after. Here's hoping it works...

SilverCity
10-21-2008, 04:30 PM
As someone who prefers Photoshop over Painter, it's frustrating to see things evolve this way. Photoshop has been very slow to cater to digital painters since the market share is extremely small compared to other niches. Painter has many nice features but I don't like its interface. I wish they would just copy Photoshop for things like layers, lassos, filters, adjustments etc. The simple lack of a decent line tool in Painter (one that doesn't automatically connect from point to point) is one of those things that I just can't understand. The selection rotate, scale, and warp tools are horrible compared to CS3. It may seem like minor quibbles, but when you rely a few tools so heavily, it's important that they are useable.

Give me CS3 with a few enhanced natural media tools and a rotateable canvas and I'd have been happy for at least 10 more years.
Ditto. I always wished that PS would somehow incorporate the Painter brush engine and the rotating canvas feature. Or, Painter should configure it's UI and tools like PS. That would be the perfect painting software for me. My current GC (Ati X800 XT) is not powerful enough to enable the rotation ability of CS4, so I'm not sure I'll update. Painter's way of canvas rotation is probably not as smooth as CS4, but it's workable with a lower end machine.

Is the sluggish behavior only noticeable in the brush tools or overall?

samartin
10-21-2008, 05:10 PM
I find it very amusing that Adobe (the kings of the photo manip software) can't even get the canvas rotation working to a hardware specification that painter can use!!!

My god why does know one optimise code anymore!? Have Adobe no pride in the software they make anymore!

I was looking forward to trialling this software, I'm not even going to as it seems bothersome for XP64 users. Go the GiMP...

CIM
10-21-2008, 09:45 PM
How about using both Photoshop and Painter? There, problem solved.

It's the full version, just in trial mode. I got it from a another friend in the industry. Not sure exactly where he got it.

I won't be buying it either way though. In fact I uninstalled it already.

As someone who prefers Photoshop over Painter, it's frustrating to see things evolve this way. Photoshop has been very slow to cater to digital painters since the market share is extremely small compared to other niches. Painter has many nice features but I don't like its interface. I wish they would just copy Photoshop for things like layers, lassos, filters, adjustments etc. The simple lack of a decent line tool in Painter (one that doesn't automatically connect from point to point) is one of those things that I just can't understand. The selection rotate, scale, and warp tools are horrible compared to CS3. It may seem like minor quibbles, but when you rely a few tools so heavily, it's important that they are useable.

Give me CS3 with a few enhanced natural media tools and a rotateable canvas and I'd have been happy for at least 10 more years.

TJFrame
10-21-2008, 10:54 PM
How about using both Photoshop and Painter? There, problem solved.


No, problem not solved.

Is hopping back and forth and re-saving and re-opening the same document an efficient or productive way to work your book? Yes it's possible to work that way, but it's time consuming and a pain in the ass. The reason I use digital tools instead of guache and markers is to make the process easier and faster.

PixelTricks
10-22-2008, 03:59 AM
After trialing CS4 it is indeed slow as molasses.
I imported a 3d model thinking that now that it had GPU support the feature would be halfway useable. It couldn't even rotate a 40K poly model without stalling for 10 secs between updates.


For those looking for a painter alternative I recommend Twisted brush, its fairly cheap and meant for digital painters.
http://www.pixarra.com/product.html

It isn't bloated like adobe apps have become.
The whole install folder for twisted brush is only 34MB.

ThomasMahler
10-26-2008, 10:35 AM
Did anyone here update already? I hear from all sides that CS4 is doggone slow and buggy - Anyone here who tried it who can confirm that?

alexyork
10-26-2008, 10:42 AM
i have updated to photoshop cs4.

i'm not sure if it's faster or slower or what... it's a weird one... the GPU zooming/caching feature appears to be quicker and more intuitive (and certainly looks better) but in some ways it feels slower somehow... it's hard to describe. Rather than waiting for each "tile" of a huge image to render left to right in strips (CS3 and previous), instead now it appears to load much smaller tiles in vertical strips. This seems faster to me on very large images but perhaps slower on smaller images. Again, very hard to describe.

The ability to arbitrarily throw around and rotate a 30k high 1.5GB PSD is really very nice. But I'm not sure if it actually renders any quicker. It's crashed on me and closed a few times too...

I've not had any issues with brush sizes/painting as others have reported.

I've not done too much proper testing with it yet but I will be next week, so I'll let you know my experiences.

AdamBaroody
11-05-2008, 07:04 AM
Photoshop CS4 is ridiculously slow. CS4 is just a mess. On a quadcore QX6700 system with 8 gigs of ram, a geforce 8800GTX... CS4 is slow... We're talking iTunes slow and itunes is pathetic. (ARGH APPLE!)

Yes, your picture can now smoothly pan in photoshop, but painting is severly lagged, sliding any slider in photoshop is about 3fps.

Some of the new tools are great, the rotate canvas is great... but it is clear that Adobe has destroyed photoshop and released it in a very buggy state that performs horribly.

GPU support is supposed to SPEED UP performance.

OK so maybe its just a buggy video driver.... NOPE. When you turn all of the GPU stuff off... Photoshop is just as slow.

I run Vista 64...

Photoshop CS4 is a disaster.

SheepFactory
11-05-2008, 07:24 AM
Wow CS4 sucks so bad on my mac book pro. I get like half a second delay drawing with any brush on a white canvas. The rotate canvas feature is great but it is unusable for me in its current state because of how slow it runs. Very very disappointed with this release.

alexyork
11-05-2008, 09:46 AM
i've actually not noticed any of these massive slowdowns many are complaining about. and i've been testing it on everything from low res web graphics right up to 30,000px high 1.5GB PSDs.

vista home premium 64, QX9650 3.0 ghz quad, 8GB DDR2, GeForce 8800 GT (superclocked), raptor OS drive.

antialiasing at multiple zoom levels with GPU enhancement is far superior, really a very nice feature. rotatable canvas is great. not tried much else that's new but everything seems to be working ok so far.

It's handled everything I've thrown at it very well so far, at least as well as CS3 did. I suspect strongly that these problems many are having are due to a driver issue or incompatibility with something. i would imagine a point release or service pack would address this.

DDS
11-05-2008, 10:46 AM
I don't understand...they say OpenGL works from Nvidia drivers 175.x but I have 178.20 on my last gen badass GeForce and OpenGL appears disabled. If I run back to 175.x although, it works.

Damn this incompatibility. Is GPU age an age of coming back to uncompatibilities and misunderstandings between all developers trying to come up with their own standards and pissing each other?

screw that.

Airflow
11-05-2008, 04:48 PM
Cant be arsed, had bad experiances with bloated cs3 and terrible lag, munching on lots of ram. I just went back to cs2, dont think Ill go beyond that to be honest, works fast, small footprint, no lag, and can run with 3-4 other memory intensive apps already running.

ThomasMahler
11-29-2008, 08:19 PM
Weird, I tried it on a couple of machines now and been experiencing a hell of a lot of lag throughout. Heck, Painting in CS4 is terrible, you get milli-second lags all the time, it's much worse than CS3. CS3 was already quite hardware-hungry, but having a lag when painting with a small black brush on a 1k x 1 canvas on a high powered workstation is ridiculous (think the machine had a Geforce 280 and 4 gigs of ram, 32bit).

From what I've seen, this is by far the worst Adobe release so far, hope they'll fix it soon enough.

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