Personal painting! Need help!!

[CybrGfx]

You need to go back and repost this, so that members don't have to scroll across to see it.

Keep it under 1024 horizontally. It's irritating as hell to have stuff take up so much space while not offering quality details, and this is certainly nowhere near that level of development.

You have a whole bunch of stuff going on, but no real focus, rhyme, reason, of coherent flow to this. It's just a busy jumble.

Have you done any Compositional thumbnails or roughs to lay out your values, and shape masses to plot the visual flow over this piece?
What is your main Focal Point supposed to be? Is this a vague matte-type landscape, or is something in this image supposed to be the subject?

I'd rather see the layout without all the color blotches, as I don't see consistent or dynamic lighting anywhere on this yet...

It's certainly a bright doodle, but not much more at this stage.
~C

[Playinsincepong]

C, You beat me to the punch again...LOL

You spent so much time getting that car nice, it seems a waste to have it 50 feet away. I would make the car an extreme foreground element with it approaching the viewer right in their face. I would get that done first then you will be able to decide how to modify the background. You could have a strong image , the question that is going to bite you in the ass is going to be "What is my Focal point?" Is it the car is or it the ship or is it my grand architectual structure? After you determine your strong foreground element (hopefully the car) I would create a new layer of black grab a large soft erase tool in photoshop and start erasing away until you find your center of interst. One of the problems your facing is because you have so many values that are close in the forground and back ground, high and low elevations everything seems to be sitting on the same plane....I.E your killing the depth of the image IMHO. I think you could potentially have a very strong scene. The other problem is because you have used so much white you have exhausted your lightest lights. This image at this point , just like any other good illustration should still be wandering in the midtones. And your darkest darks are almost non existant.

All the best

Playin

[GaboRomero]

hi, i like the lay out, maybe i would remove the big starship or scale it down so it won't compete with the bulding.

good luck!

[Dekus]

Thank you guys for the comments!! Very interesting to hear such words..

CybrGfx: ok... i understand that the pic is way too wide.. thanks!
"You have a whole bunch of stuff going on" - i was going to add even more stuff like more little buildings, wires, vehicles...
"Have you done any Compositional thumbnails" - i dont need to.. i can Perfectly imagine this scene in my head already.. i just need to find the same values and colors in Photoshop.. :)

Playinsincepong: "You spent so much time getting that car nice" not really.. i actually did it Very quick! :D it was just so fun to make the little car that i got a bit too carried away.. :)
"the question that is going to bite you in the ass is going to be "What is my Focal point?"" The main subject in this scene is of course the Building AND the spaceship.. The car connects the viewer with the foreground and the building at the back, with the background..
"your killing the depth" i understand... i know i need to make depth.. but how? clouds are grey, sky is greyish blue, the building will be white.. Soo many Grey, flat colors!

GaboRomero: Thanks! The starship is going to stay how it is now.. thats how i see it in my head... i want it to look Freakin Tremendous, Gigantic.. :)

[Dekus]

CybrGfx: "the visual flow over this piece?"

Tadaa!

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d76/Dekus/painting_scene_18_forweb2.jpg

[salsaatua]

It doesn't matter how well you picture it in you're head. You still need to plan how it's going to look on paper. It helps. You don't need to blow off the advice and questions. "What is your focal point" is a valid question. Seriously. What is your focal point? What ever it is, you need the image to flow there and keep the readers attention. As for depth, try using atmospheric distortion to achieve it. Things get bluer the further they are from you and appear less detailed. You could also change the buildings to some other color, like red, and desaturate it on the buildings further back.

anywho there's my two cents.

[Dekus]

It doesn't matter how well you picture it in you're head. You still need to plan how it's going to look on paper. It helps. You don't need to blow off the advice and questions. "What is your focal point" is a valid question. Seriously. What is your focal point? What ever it is, you need the image to flow there and keep the readers attention. As for depth, try using atmospheric distortion to achieve it. Things get bluer the further they are from you and appear less detailed. You could also change the buildings to some other color, like red, and desaturate it on the buildings further back.

anywho there's my two cents.

Thank you for the comment!

How i see the picture in my head matters all... see any of my other work (dekus.deviantart.com) i Never do sketches on paper before it.. maybe one or two max.
The focal point, as i say again, is the main building and the starship... but i also want to make a nice, classical, sci-fi scene, not concentrating 100% on just one object..
"you need the image to flow " dont just say.. tell me how to do it! how/what to improve!
I know about the "Things get bluer the further they are from you and appear less detailed" this is an early Beta version... "Work in Progress" as you see...
And i Wont change the buildings color in red... this is no clown town.. the buildings will be white. :)

[CybrGfx]

CybrGfx: "the visual flow over this piece?"

Tadaa!

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d76/Dekus/painting_scene_18_forweb2.jpgTaDahh my ass.
You have a typical DA attitude. I strongly suggest you drop it soon, if you ever have any serious intentions of improving as an artist.

HERE is the visual flow of your piece...Not quite what you may envision in YOUR head, but what the vast majority of people who look at this will see...
http://s1b.directupload.net/images/081009/n9go98ex.jpg
The eye hits the giant ship, and is quickly dragged down to the car, and off the picture plane. You have a secondary flow (in yellow) from the top edge down, and again, back to the bottom.

You think you are so on top of this, and you're not. You cannot make this image work with these few elements, but are going to add even more stuff to clutter it up so badly the viewer will have no clue what they are looking at, beyond confusion...

Okay, then. Thank you for clarifying this for me. I can see that you are certainly in no need of my assistance, nor anyone else's, evidently, since you have this all pictured in your head. The fact that even with a visual image infront of us, no one else can envision what you do tells a LOT about your skills, and your attitude explains it all.

BEST of success to you with this piece!
~C

[Dekus]

TaDahh my ass.

Aaahahaha! You, sir are very funny! :D
Thank you once again for the comment. Yeah.. DA is my number 1 site, them comes CGtalk, then ConceptArt.org... I guess ive been quite a lot on DA.. :)

hmm... okay.. i see where the image flow flaw is... i guess.. but how to correct it? you didnt say that.. :P It seems that you only say whats wrong and bad... do you always think negatively? :) This was done just for fun... a personal little work... :)
Dont take it all too seriously.. just tell me what you see, what needs to be corrected and HOW... thats all and everyone will be happy.. :)

[TrenchcoatPixie]

I think the implied fix for "your flow lines make the viewer's eye fall off the picture plane" is "come up with a new composition where the flow lines don't fall off the picture plane."

Just because you're doing this for fun, as a personal project, doesn't mean you shouldn't think about it and try to improve, no? Or else why post in a critique forum?

[Playinsincepong]

Your the Rembrandt of our time:bowdown: :arteest: . What can I tell you that you don't already know... Your a visionary and you don't need my help thats for sure.....

I on the other hand am not Rembrandt, hell I'm not even good enough to be one of his poorest students, but I do know a thing or two about picture making.

Your picture is not "Reading", it is flat, It is not unified. You have exhausted your highest values wayyyyyy to early. It does need a strong foreground element. The flow problems that have been enumearted above are correct. If I was an expert at everything I would have picked up on the flow issues myself, but oooops. I'm not. Sucks being me.


When your ready to deflate your ego just a tad. When your ready to let down your : ' I know what I'm doing ...leave me alone ...only tell me the advice I want to hear' shtick . I will be glad to help you .

If (and I do say IF ) your convinced that I don't know what I'm talking about, tell me to go walk in traffic it is inconsequential to me. I just want to help you to improve your work.


Best Wishes

Playin


By the way contrary to what you think ... the ship is not resonating as your focus of interst. Your ship and that blown out light from that sun or planet or whatever it is are fighting like hell over who should be seen. Just looking at cybers toned down lighting scenario and you will see that your ship starts to become the focus of interest...STARTS, but it's still not a confident sale .If your Sun/planet thingofamajig is going to be a blown out light your ship is going to appear more backlit, almost shillouetted ...is that what you want?

[Dekus]

wow im not used to get this much comments! Thank you guys!

TrenchcoatPixie: "come up with a new composition where the flow lines don't fall off the picture plane." No.. i wont do any radical changes to this pic.. its now how i wanted it.. ive spent time to get all the elements in perfect position and scale.. and i wont change it.. If the pic will fail, then it fails...

Playinsincepong: thank you for the comment...
So you think this picture is too bright? hmm.. okay i see what you mean.. it actually did have a lot of light data as i remember when i looked at the histogram..
"Your picture is not "Reading", it is flat" I dont quite understand... its flat?.. you mean theres a lot of grey values..? or in the way of perspective?.. i "took the shot" with a telezoom lens if you wanna say it that way.. in the 3D program... so it might look a bit flat... but thats ok with me..
"Your ship and that blown out light from that sun or planet or whatever it is are fighting like hell over who should be seen." Soo.... what do you suggest? With this lighting there should not be reflection on the BG planet at ALL.. i know.. but.. but i still want it to be visible! i dont care if its unrealistic.. i want to create a visualy stunning, classical sci-fi image! :) I want the ship and the building to be the main objects... but i still want to remain the BG planet reflection..

[Playinsincepong]

I didn't want to obliterate your image but I think this is going in the right direction while holding on to most of your elements. If you think this is going in the right direction let me know and we can discuss it if not I wish you the best.








http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j150/playinsincepong/repaint.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j150/playinsincepong/repaint-1.jpg

[TrenchcoatPixie]

No.. i wont do any radical changes to this pic.. its now how i wanted it.. ive spent time to get all the elements in perfect position and scale.. and i wont change it.. If the pic will fail, then it fails...
Perfect position and scale, huh.

You've been told over and over again in this thread that your composition is bad, and your values flat and uninteresting. The picture failing or not failing is under your control. Right now, it's failing. We're trying to tell you how you could make it succeed. That requires changing it. Just because it's how you see it in your head doesn't mean it's good. You can improve upon your initial idea--you SHOULD improve upon your initial idea, with every drawing you make.

I took a look at your DA gallery. There are a couple pieces I like--but for the most of it, bad composition turns your work into less than what it should be. You can learn, and your work will improve. Or you can not listen, refuse to change anything, content yourself with your watchers on DA, and never get much better.

Humility is at the heart of all improvement. Your ideas aren't precious children to love just the way they are.

[Dekus]

Playinsincepong: Wow thats jsut what i needed! someone to Visually explain to me whats wrong and most important, How it needs to be corrected!! Thank you very much! That looks very nice..

TrenchcoatPixie: okay.. i understand... its just that its so hard to just simply change suddenly.. when you had the same image in your head and wanted to turn it into a painting for years! :) Im too used to draw ideas i get instantly.. withouth thinking through or drawing different variations of it.. Almost all pictures you saw on DA i drew right away from the first brush stroke.. Its just how i am.. I guess i have to draw 100 variations of everything im going to draw in the future...

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