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View Full Version : Mudbox 2009 out now!


skycastle
10-06-2008, 05:15 PM
Buy Mudbox 2009! (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=10710168)

Check out the Mudbox 2009 Trial Version (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/mform?siteID=123112&id=10707843)

See the Documentation (http://download.autodesk.com/esd/mudbox/help2009/index.html)

System Specs (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=11462683)

Enjoy!

tonytrout
10-06-2008, 05:19 PM
Yay. Congrats mud guys

NicolasJordan
10-06-2008, 05:24 PM
I was expecting it to be below $300 to upgrade from Mudbox basic. Mudbox 2009 looks like a really cool program but I am having some trouble convincing myself to get it at the $480 upgrade price tag when I would only use it for hobby purposes. A program like 3D Coat is kinda looking more attractive to me at the moment for 3d painting purposes. Maybe I will download the trial to see what it's like anyway.

PaulAdams
10-06-2008, 05:25 PM
How's everyone finding the trial? I've just installed it and opened the Base Human. It runs like an absolute dog. I've got 4GB RAM, Dual Core 2.66Ghz, 7800GS (yes, slightly old). Mudbox 1.0 is smooth as hell though.

It's doing exactly the same as Maya does on my system if you click the mesh just once, CPU goes to 100% for a few seconds and then it selects the mesh. Is this because my GPU isn't a Quadro? Because thats what Autodesk Maya support told me.

I was going to purchase immediately but will hold off now. Might have to wait to see what the qualified specs are.

INFINITE
10-06-2008, 05:29 PM
Nice but it's a shame the site is dominated by Autodesks site style.

Pixologic got it right with the amount of control they have over their product and their marketing techniques.

Looks awesome though. IMHO they could do with improving the site to better sell the product.

KidderD
10-06-2008, 05:33 PM
Night and Day...

Fantastic job!

KidderD
10-06-2008, 05:42 PM
I guess what I mean by that is I'm on level 10, sculpting 26 Mil, with AO and IBL with no lag.

Uhm, night and day. Most impressive upgrade I can remember.

samartin
10-06-2008, 05:47 PM
I'm using an ATI XTX-1900X, doesn't support the AO filter!!

Initial thoughts, well when I tumble, paint or whatever, after I carry out a certain function I have to wait for 1 sec before I can do anything! Not too happy about that.

Will have a proper play later but I did crash the programme a few times trying to load a simple obj file I created ages ago...

PaulAdams
10-06-2008, 05:55 PM
Non-Smooth Shaded results in faces flickering black, along with every function having a delay on it. Latest GPU drivers are installed. :sad:

Stinkfist
10-06-2008, 06:00 PM
I have it on pre-order :D

DuttyFoot
10-06-2008, 06:04 PM
do you guys think its possible to upgrade from basic to pro. i have mbox 1 basic

samartin
10-06-2008, 06:11 PM
Hmmm I'm not sold on this version, whenever I am in sculpt mode I have a serious 1 sec lag at any sub-D level before I can carry out sculpting/rotating the model.

However in paint mode I can paint a series of strokes no problem.

Maybe my quad core isn't cutting it these days although it can still tumble a 32m poly with an average 35fps! Such a shame about the lag as that is killing me...

KidderD
10-06-2008, 06:12 PM
I should clarify my specs. The below machine is the home one.

I am trying this out on a Q6600 4GB ram 8800GT (latest certified driver)

Sil3
10-06-2008, 06:13 PM
Edit:

Updated my Nvidia Drivers and the Crashes stoped uff :D

Now lets play :applause:

NicolasJordan
10-06-2008, 06:14 PM
do you guys think its possible to upgrade from basic to pro. i have mbox 1 basic

Ya you can upgrade from basic to pro for $450 US.

oglu
10-06-2008, 06:14 PM
do you guys think its possible to upgrade from basic to pro. i have mbox 1 basic

yes... as you can see in the purchase options...

Spin99
10-06-2008, 06:16 PM
Terrificness :buttrock:

prayas
10-06-2008, 06:20 PM
Hi all,

i was so excited to have the demo to finally play with it and the same lag here. Do one single stroke, rotate or so and wait a second!

Specs:
Quad 6600
8Gig RAM
ATI HD2600 card.
Intuos A5 WIDE
All new drivers on a WIN XP x64

Do i need a better bigger graphics card?

P..:

aversive
10-06-2008, 06:28 PM
Okay, this is great news. Wow!

Gonna purchase this thing as soon as I can, but before I make a potentialy big mistake (and I don't want to seem like a dumb***, I just want to be VERY sure)...

On the Buy Now page, it says Mudbox 2009 upgrade (Basic)- It does mean that I can buy that to upgrade my MB 1.0 Basic to MB2009, instead of it being an upgrade on MB2009 itself right? :p

And what exactly is the difference between MB2009 32-bit & 64-bit? I have Windows XP 32-bit (which of course doesn't use my full 4 GB RAM), but say if I upgrade to 64-bit OS (like Vista), does that mean MB2009 32-bit will be able to work with more polys than it would on my current OS RAM capacity?

Anyone's answer to these questions would be very much appreciated. :cool:

KidderD
10-06-2008, 06:37 PM
Just from this thread, both ppl with the lag, appear to have ATI cards.

ChewyPixels
10-06-2008, 06:48 PM
Sweet! I can't wait to try the demo! Hopefully it exceeds my expectations.

prayas
10-06-2008, 06:50 PM
@Kidder-D

Looks like only ATi cards with this lag. Can't really test on a nvidia system cause all the cards here are ATI and i liked it that way so far. Maybe i need a bit older driver and not the newest one. Had a similar error with my main 3d app some years ago when the newest Ati drivers required a program update and not the other way around.

P..:

subtlebluetones
10-06-2008, 06:52 PM
ZZoooooommggg!!! AAaaack!!! :eek::surprised

(thats all i could come up with)


EDIT: Sorry, i got a bit excited at the news! I wont be able to do anything with it on my home laptop so ill try the demo at work tomorrow and see how it goes. After reading the thread, it isnt getting the reception i expected. Hopefully i wont see these lag issues.

spaz8
10-06-2008, 06:55 PM
I also have a License of Mudbox 1.0 Basic.. so for 450$ that gets me a commercial license (pro) version of 2.0 ... has the basic/pro option been killed? just want to confirm this.

dubge
10-06-2008, 06:58 PM
yes i think it's basic to 2009 rather than pro. Because the upgrade from pro to 2009 is 375. kinda stinks. I was hoping for something a little cheaper for the pro upgrade.

NicolasJordan
10-06-2008, 07:01 PM
Yep looks like Autodesk definitely killed the Mudbox Basic edition.

prayas
10-06-2008, 07:29 PM
Thanks to my still installed dualboot i switched to xp32 bit and found no more lag in the viewport. All running fine and fast. Drivers are a bit older and of course i use not the 64bit MB but the 32bit version.

Can this be a driver problem or are there some problems in the 64bit version of Mudbox running on an ATI card?


P..:

samartin
10-06-2008, 07:39 PM
Hmmm if it's any help I went for the 64bit edition!

DuttyFoot
10-06-2008, 08:09 PM
Hmmm if it's any help I went for the 64bit edition!

same here for my desktop at home. my lappy is 32 bit though.

yes i think it's basic to 2009 rather than pro. Because the upgrade from pro to 2009 is 375. kinda stinks. I was hoping for something a little cheaper for the pro upgrade.

yeah thats what i was wondering about. so i guess you probably cannot go from basic to pro. i wondered why it cost more to upgrade basic 1 to basic 2. i paid like 300 dollars for the basic version of mudbox 1

this was the og pricing when skymatter came out with mudbox

Mudbox is $299 US and the pro version is $649

AD cost to upgrade basic 1 to basic 2 is 450

skidu
10-06-2008, 08:09 PM
Looks like only ATi cards with this lag.


I think your right, 4870 here and it locks up after each brushstoke also AO doesn't seem to be supported.

gruhn
10-06-2008, 08:13 PM
Pixologic got it right with the amount of control they have over their product and their marketing techniques.


I get that you don't like Autodesk's marketing style this go around. No idea if it's ineffective somehow or just not to your taste. What I am curious about though is whether you think Autodesk should have more or less control over its own product?

oglu
10-06-2008, 08:14 PM
AD cost to upgrade basic 1 to basic 2 is 450

think there is no basic version anymore...

prayas
10-06-2008, 08:15 PM
AO not working here either. Seems to be a driver problem though. I got the 8-9 x64 driver from 17th of september on my x64 system.
On my old 32 bit i updated the driver sometime in summer so it's a pretty old one.
All running fine just no AO supported.

P..:

JDPinto
10-06-2008, 08:20 PM
Wow been waiting a long time for this. Installing trial now...

I'm almost shaking from anticipation! :D

prayas
10-06-2008, 08:24 PM
One more thing. What about old .mud files? Does it import them?

P..:

JDPinto
10-06-2008, 08:29 PM
Great :sad:

I installed the trial but as soon as I try starting it up: "There is a registry error with the current installation."

I looked over the specs and is it really because I have Vista Home Premium instead of Business?? Please say it ain't so. :cry:

csutcliffe
10-06-2008, 08:30 PM
Much greater performance than MB1 on my system. With MB1 I can't go much higher than a couple of million poly's so a big thumbs up there. I need to play with it some more but It still kind of feels a little underwhelming in terms of the feature set when compared with some other applications.

notlongago
10-06-2008, 08:31 PM
750$? That is some price. How about a new brand name like Autocash.

Magnus3D
10-06-2008, 08:33 PM
Sweet! finally a chance to try this new baby :) and it's pretty good even when it has this Autodesk label on it.. performance is also impressive, i managed to push the 64bit version up to 32 million polys on my rig, sculpting got a bit slow but it was possible!

/ Magnus

Haeberle
10-06-2008, 08:36 PM
Great :sad:

I installed the trial but as soon as I try starting it up: "There is a registry error with the current installation."

I looked over the specs and is it really because I have Vista Home Premium instead of Business?? Please say it ain't so. :cry:

try to run it as admin (had same error here on vista 64 business)

DuttyFoot
10-06-2008, 08:37 PM
so basically they charge 450 to upgrade the basic version to the pro version then. so that would equal the 750 price tag for the regular pro version. ok i see, so they basically killed the basic version. thats kinda sad for all who dosen't have 750 dollars to spend all at once.

elvis75k
10-06-2008, 08:39 PM
My god is a total mess over here!! I can't work when:
select part of the model
hide unselected
deselect (won't work, the selection remain)
sculpt :( aaarrrghgh)

At this point, going down a level reveal some trial sculpting but the selection goes and the whole mesh comes back.
I know this is not the place to post issues but, HEY?!
Also the mud material as issues when toggle smooth shade! Using blinn helps..
Then i loose my 30 days trial becose i'm not gonna change my geforce series 7 with 8 or 9

goodbye

JDPinto
10-06-2008, 08:40 PM
try to run it as admin (had same error here on vista 64 business)

:love:Thank you so much!! Time to explore

StephaneD
10-06-2008, 09:31 PM
try to run it as admin (had same error here on vista 64 business)

thanks, had the same problem it works now

I'm having extremely poor performance though, I have the 1sec lag issue as well
don't know if its related to using vista family premium, still mudbox 1.0 worked way better on the same system (macbookpro laptop : Core2duo 2,5ghz 4go RAM, geforce 8600M GT, vista 64)

Swizzle
10-06-2008, 09:43 PM
Jesus! $450 for a freaking upgrade?!

kraal
10-06-2008, 09:49 PM
well its not for mac and zbrush 3 will be so i know what i plan on getting. was hoping mudbox was for mac from the good stuff i heard about it

Swizzle
10-06-2008, 10:09 PM
...So I just tried the demo.

It can handle eight million polygons without breaking a sweat.

Consider my position changed and my money thrown wildly at Autodesk.

jclepev
10-06-2008, 10:36 PM
im happy to see that the trial works great in Linux with wine (centos 5)
i'm sure is not exactly the same when it comes to million and millions of polys, but works great under 1.5mi
enough for blocking out something
yay!

Necronomiden
10-06-2008, 10:37 PM
can´t wait to try it, but did i get this right? it doesn´t support Windows XP home?
gotta upgrade to vista then.. :)

elvis75k
10-07-2008, 12:01 AM
no one but me is facing this issue? I can't go anywhere!!! Awake all the night :(

Spin99
10-07-2008, 12:03 AM
Huh Mudbox2009 trial won't run at all here.
It simply crashes on startup, gives an error and there goes the splash screen.
Installation never gave an error and tried reinstalling even.

Funny enough I'm running Silo2, XSI and do know that even ZBrush runs ok.

It's an old AMD workstation and MB2009 simply refuses to run here, tried all tricks in the book I know, including running it as an administrator on XP Professional SP3.
I'm getting depressed now lol

inverse catheter
10-07-2008, 12:14 AM
xp32
pentium 4
3gig RAM
radeon x600 256 mb

subd to 14 million. sculpting smooth. speed in viewport good IN BETWEEN THE NASTY LAG THAT OCCURS ON CLICK DOWN AND CLICK UP. i get this massive lag on all levels. makes it pretty much unworkable

Spin99
10-07-2008, 12:27 AM
Hey Elvis75k you can go sleep now ok?
Lol maybe um it's an early release or something??
It doesn't even start here so I'm not going to get disappointed huh.

You tried ZBrush? It works fine here..

Roger Eberhart
10-07-2008, 12:49 AM
It's curious that they didn't add color map baking between meshes. Also, support for .psd files for the layered textures seems like a no brainer. I was hoping Mudbox could replace Bodypaint in my workflow. Also, retopology tools and something like transpose would have been great. I can't say that I'm super excited about this release. I all likelihood I will continue sculpting in ZBrush and using Bodypaint for textures.

DuttyFoot
10-07-2008, 12:56 AM
did anyone get the error when you try to run it that says " there is a registry error with the current installation". i guess i have to reinstall it for the second time.

Airflow
10-07-2008, 01:03 AM
Seems fine to me, I got xp64 and a ati Hd 3850 crosfire. I do get a half second lag on the end of each stroke, but everything else works fine.
Excuse the language, but its an Absoulute Goddammed Pleasure to use.
I gotta give this post some stars.
:)

BigPixolin
10-07-2008, 01:32 AM
Freakin awesome.
My personal style may dictate that I will never touch zbrush again.This is just what I wanted out of a sculpting painting app.

DuttyFoot
10-07-2008, 01:57 AM
Excuse the language, but its an Absoulute Goddammed Pleasure to use.I gotta give this post some stars.
:) i hella second that comment, mudbox 2 freakin rocks. i got it to work, just had to reinstall. all i gotta do now is get a bigger wacom tablet for this thing. this small ass tablet i got is killing my hands. i am having a blast using this. wish i didn't have to go to work in the morning. its pretty cool that they included nice primitives to tinker with.

robo3687
10-07-2008, 02:20 AM
i just installed the trial....and everything opens up nice and quickly and everything....but i can't actually do anything because my viewport is all black.....any idea what could cause that? or is my pc just not good enough....?

lovisx
10-07-2008, 02:49 AM
It's working good over here. Really enjoyable sculpting. The wax, knife, and roll brushes are my favorite right now. The texture painting is great too. So simple to begin working.

My only disappointment is that the visual fx stuff isn't supported on my crappy graphics card. HDRI, depth of field, ambient occlusion, don't work. Shadows are even buggy.

ThE_JacO
10-07-2008, 02:53 AM
Thanks to my still installed dualboot i switched to xp32 bit and found no more lag in the viewport. All running fine and fast. Drivers are a bit older and of course i use not the 64bit MB but the 32bit version.

Can this be a driver problem or are there some problems in the 64bit version of Mudbox running on an ATI card?


P..:
ATI cards have had the same bug forever with latency on raster to camera conversion (selections are candidate #1 to be affected).
XSI v7 suffered from it all throughout the beta, Maya did, and now mudbox does.
ATI acknowledged it and then took a life and half of delays and procrastination to deliver a beta fix.

It's been beaten to death on XSI forums and boards, and a fix was posted. Apparently it solved the issue for most people owning some cards, and did nothing for others.
You can run a search and try it.

As for mudbox: brilliant afaic. A tad crashy here (on a quadro), looks like release was rushed a little bit, but overall I'm glad mudbox and its actual 3D approach to things and photoshoppish layer management are back in the game. Performance is where I expected it to be, and my expectations were pretty high.

NicolasJordan
10-07-2008, 03:51 AM
I am using the trial version of 2009 and I can't open .mud files from Mudbox 1.0. Does anyone else have this problem?

TheAxeGrinder
10-07-2008, 04:00 AM
While I was stoked with the initial release of Mudbox a few years back, it was because I never touched ZBrush. Now that I've been hooked on ZBrush for the past few years, it'll take quite a bit to win me back over to Skymatter's (now Autodesk's) baby. I'll still give it a whirl, though.

Nathan
10-07-2008, 04:58 AM
I am using the trial version of 2009 and I can't open .mud files from Mudbox 1.0. Does anyone else have this problem?

it's a known limitation. there's a section in the help about getting around it, here:

http://download.autodesk.com/esd/mudbox/help2009/files/WS73099cc142f48755-4607e7cc11b1cfff571-7fa0.htm

nissenyfiken
10-07-2008, 05:48 AM
Hello!

They must be kidding. I bought the version 1 basic for less than it cost to upgrade to 2009 basic. In Sweden it will cost me around $700 to upgrade from v. 1 Basic to this version.

No way... out you go!!!

NN

oglu
10-07-2008, 06:32 AM
there is no basic version of mud2009...

robo3687
10-07-2008, 06:49 AM
does anyone know what could be causing a black viewport? i really want to try MB09 out

Layer01
10-07-2008, 06:54 AM
mehh.
Its pretty cool, but to me it feels like its less responsive than zb, i now "feel" is very subjectve :P

Quad 2.66
6GB
8800GTX
Vista 64 ultimate

Also i have no doubts that when 3.5 comes out MB will once again look sheepish in comparison, its like mb v1/zb3 all over again lol.
The painting system is pretty sweet, but you can get more from an app like 3dcoat atm.
However the viewport shaders are awesome! Not sure how useful (esp dof) but still awesome :)

Maph
10-07-2008, 07:29 AM
It's everything I've ever wanted. :) The brushes are absolutely amazing, and the addition of cgfx materials got me drooling the minute AD announced it.
It does what it's meant to do -sculpt and paint- and it does a mighty fine job at it!

Runs like a freaking train on my workstation with no issues so far:
dual Xeon E5410 Quad Core
4GB 667 DDR2 FB-DIMM
GF 8800GT.
WinXP64

DaddyMack
10-07-2008, 07:38 AM
interesting... Dling now, will test on xp64 with quadrofx 4500 and 16gb ram and report back soon:drool:

iskon
10-07-2008, 08:29 AM
does anyone know what could be causing a black viewport? i really want to try MB09 out

Maybe drivers. Try to upgrade to the newest one from your manufacturer.

Anyway, one thing which amazed me is that there is no more seams when you paints on your models. Even when you are painting multiple maps on single character, there is no seams. That's great feature. Mudbox paints realtime on your model in such way like ZBrush or BodyPaint paints in Projection mode.

vfx
10-07-2008, 08:43 AM
Seems ok here on my laptop with Geforce Go 7700 Only limitation is no AO. Loving the demo right now, I can leave Zbrush's weird rotation behind now :P

FreakWizz
10-07-2008, 09:05 AM
Well after a 5mins testdrive my initial thoughts are:

It can definitely handle more polys which is good. However It seems a little weird with artifacts and flipped or poly collisions causing more issues than other applications seem to including MB1. Rather than fill in the middle of two strokes it tends to take two sides and cross them over each other.. AO is not working here either... I still think MB Sculpting is far better workflow wise than the competiton though.. :)

Painting while simple semes to be quite lacking, and can't come close to BP which is a shame, as that was my hope because a unified paint / sculpt program would be nice, in this regard 3DC is better.

Can i not paint with a color texture? I seem to be only able to paint a texture using stamp or stencil with a single color i choose, rather than painting a skin texture using the textures colors or a mixture of both... So Skin comes out a pure pink or green depending on what i choose, rather than the nice mix of hues in my texture. Surely i am missing something obvious?

Sil3
10-07-2008, 09:55 AM
After playign with the Demo for about 2 hours or so i noticed that the Smooth Brush even at 100% doesnt do much on 1 milion poly meshes and up, we need to smooth tons of times to make it really smooth, funny in ZB the smooth Brush is to high in Mud seems to be too low.. lol :p

There artefacts on non Smooth Shaded view unfortunatly but the AO and RealTime shadows rocks :buttrock:

Painting seemed very solid to me but only dabled with it for short minutes.

robo3687
10-07-2008, 10:10 AM
Maybe drivers. Try to upgrade to the newest one from your manufacturer.

Anyway, one thing which amazed me is that there is no more seams when you paints on your models. Even when you are painting multiple maps on single character, there is no seams. That's great feature. Mudbox paints realtime on your model in such way like ZBrush or BodyPaint paints in Projection mode.

thanks...drivers did the trick.....and mudbox is teh awesome...

cook5000
10-07-2008, 10:11 AM
no one but me is facing this issue?

Except that my trial (!) is constanly complaining about registry problems, ...okay, might be vista, I've had some really bad experiences with the quality of baked normals. Stuff that worked on 1.07 doesn't render correctly anymore.
There are problems with thin surfaces like ears. Mudbox seams to not only render the closest surface but also the surface behind it. It can't be cleaned or corrected by changing the distance value. :curious:

Performance rocks and there are tons of other cool features but if even normal baking doesnt work... :shrug: I dunno.

lukx
10-07-2008, 10:35 AM
This trial is crashing every 10 seconds. I'm using windows xp x64. On my friend pc same thing!

Steve Green
10-07-2008, 10:45 AM
Seems like a lot of people are having issues, both here and on the official forum.

If it's been rushed out, I think I'll give it a wait and see before I upgrade. Not sure why they felt the urgent need to release it with known crash bugs.

- Steve

Magnus3D
10-07-2008, 11:08 AM
Perhaps they're applying the typical Autodesk upgrade system to it where users buy a flakey software and they have to pay again to get it fixed so they can use it, kinda like 3dsmax is.. they probably thought Pixologic was close to a release of Zbrush 3.5 so they had to get Mud out the door asap or risk loosing customers to Pixologic. Not a very wise decision if i can say so..

/ Magnus

cheebamonkey
10-07-2008, 11:41 AM
Perhaps they're applying the typical Autodesk upgrade system to it where users buy a flakey software and they have to pay again to get it fixed so they can use it, kinda like 3dsmax is.. they probably thought Pixologic was close to a release of Zbrush 3.5 so they had to get Mud out the door asap or risk loosing customers to Pixologic. Not a very wise decision if i can say so..

/ Magnus

couldn't be more wrong. If they were basing what PixoLAGit was doing, they wouldn't have to release another version in 2 more years as Pixo isn't known for getting stuff out the door in a timely manner.

prayas
10-07-2008, 11:41 AM
Ok,

after trying different drivers i got back to an old ATI driver from january.
On my dualboot xp 32bit i had version 8-1 installed and all worked fine.
No more lag in the viewport.
I searched the ATI website and found a x64 version of the 8-1 Catalyst
and installed under x64. All working smooth now. Just writing to share my
experience here. I don't recommend to use this old driver.

P..:

samartin
10-07-2008, 11:43 AM
I was waiting for this release to see how it compared to ZB3, unfortunately ZB3 pricing has shot up a £100 from the last time I checked! Don't need sculpting abilities just yet, not hardcore ones so I'll carry on with the tools I have...

Shame about MB'09, I really tried liking it but that lag is sooooo annoying!

cheebamonkey
10-07-2008, 11:49 AM
no crashing no lagging here... 8800GTS in Vista64. SO far it's nice.. thanks AD!

P_T
10-07-2008, 12:00 PM
How much of the enthusiasm about MB09 in this thread is caused by the excitement of getting a new toy to play with? It's a bit like when MB1 was released. It's all "MB rawkz!!", then ZB3 was released and the tune changed to "ZB rawkz!!" and now back to MB09.

I'll wait for a month or more after they iron out a lot of the bugs before I give it a go. It's not like I have a masterpiece that I absolutely can't finish without this software. ;) :D

cheebamonkey
10-07-2008, 12:04 PM
How much of the enthusiasm about MB09 in this thread is caused by the excitement of getting a new toy to play with? It's a bit like when MB1 was released. It's all "MB rawkz!!", then ZB3 was released and the tune changed to "ZB rawkz!!" and now back to MB09.

I'll wait for a month or more after they iron out a lot of the bugs before I give it a go. It's not like I have a masterpiece that I absolutely can't finish without this software. ;) :D



we could definitely use the update. We're actually getting a free version with ugprading one of our Complete licenses to Unlimited (the last one finally!)

P_T
10-07-2008, 12:32 PM
we could definitely use the update. From the online doco I know MB doesn't allow you to create base mesh and/or retopo. Now while I can still block out shapes from primitives, I can get more efficient polycount using zphere and I can retopo the base mesh without getting out of the program.

So from sculpting workflow perspective, I really don't see anything in this update that I absolutely must have and as such, what you said is just a matter of opinion really (an opinion that could've been influenced by the excitement of playing with a new toy). ;)

Hooch
10-07-2008, 01:10 PM
WTF!?? Mudbox 2009 can't open Mudbox 1 files?? :surprised
Is this for real or it's just a trial version thing? :sad:

cheebamonkey
10-07-2008, 01:13 PM
From the online doco I know MB doesn't allow you to create base mesh and/or retopo. Now while I can still block out shapes from primitives, I can get more efficient polycount using zphere and I can retopo the base mesh without getting out of the program.

So from sculpting workflow perspective, I really don't see anything in this update that I absolutely must have and as such, what you said is just a matter of opinion really (an opinion that could've been influenced by the excitement of playing with a new toy). ;)


yup.. it's a matter of opinion and what inviduals are looking for. I could care less about Zsphere, although I understand why people get so horny over it based on their need for it. We'll do fine without it. For us it's not about playing with a new toy... no time for that crap.. it's actually needing the ability to add detail to our objects and of course, texture painting. ZB is great and all... took a class at FXPHD for it, but Mudbox suits my style more.

cheebamonkey
10-07-2008, 01:20 PM
Except that my trial (!) is constanly complaining about registry problems,

try running as Admin?

cheebamonkey
10-07-2008, 01:21 PM
WTF!?? Mudbox 2009 can't open Mudbox 1 files?? :surprised
Is this for real or it's just a trial version thing? :sad:


Help file:

The Mudbox file format architecture was substantially changed for Mudbox 2009 to improve interactive performance using models with much larger polygon counts. Unfortunately, the .mud files from Mudbox version 1.0.7 or earlier are not compatible with Mudbox 2009.

It is possible to transfer sculpted models between Mudbox 1.0.7 (and earlier versions) and Mudbox 2009 using the .obj file format using either of the following techniques.

****read the rest in the help file under import and export******

Stinkfist
10-07-2008, 02:04 PM
(sneaky zbrush promotion)

The reason that m and my colleagues use mudbox is because it suits our workflow much better than zbrush ever has. I used zbrush for three years 2->3.1 so Im not just some howling fanboy making outrageous claims.

cook5000
10-07-2008, 02:09 PM
try running as Admin?

Yep. I did. It works (somehow) It was working without problems when I first startet it but now, all the preset materials and lightsetups are gone :surprised Okay...not a real problem but this normal map artifacts are something that keeps me waiting for a update.
Since the baking options became very slim, I can't imagine it's something about my settings or the machine and nostrils or ears are not special cases where stuff like that could happen.






(I hate zbrush much more) :)

ThomasMahler
10-07-2008, 02:24 PM
Mudbox crashed like crazy using the 17x.xx something Nvidia driver - with the old 162 it works nicely.

Still just looking into it, but feels neato so far :)

iskon
10-07-2008, 02:27 PM
This trial is crashing every 10 seconds. I'm using windows xp x64. On my friend pc same thing!

I use Win xp64 bit and no problems. It's soooo stable. I didn't have any type of problems which you guys have here. For me, MB becomes slow when I paint one 4k map on just 2 mil character.
Now, I must ask myself question how MB will be used in today's VFX industry, where you must paint multiple 4k maps on 8+ mil characters/creatures.
p.s.
And MB is designed with production workflow in mind... I don't get it....

njanim8tor
10-07-2008, 03:04 PM
It was working without problems when I first startet it but now, all the preset materials and lightsetups are gone :surprised

Same problem here. I'm running the 64 bit with a QuadroFX 5500.





(I hate zbrush much more) :)[/QUOTE]

P_T
10-07-2008, 03:10 PM
The reason that m and my colleagues use mudbox is because it suits our workflow much better than zbrush ever has. I used zbrush for three years 2->3.1 so Im not just some howling fanboy making outrageous claims.Why get defensive then? :shrug: I didn't call you or anyone else here a "howling fanboy", if MB suits you and it doesn't give you any trouble then go for it.

I wasn't trying to promote ZB either, it was just to illustrate my point to cheebamonkey about it being a matter of opinion. I also said I will give it a go in a few months time after a patch or two is released so please... put the pitchfork back in the shed. :)

Spin99
10-07-2008, 03:12 PM
I'm getting the idea that MB2009 runs on a pretty narrow range of hardware.
Maybe they're sponsored by people like Intel or nVidia?
Whichever case when they post those recommended specs you'll probably have to stick to them.

So there'll be a couple possible hardware configurations to run it on and that's it?
Can't say I'm not disappointed, so they're flogging hardware with their release as well?

Any case this side MB2009 runs like the stock exchange, except there's no rebound yet lol
Unfortunately it's already used all the time I'm willing to spend on getting a program to startup.

Arrivederci ;)

Stinkfist
10-07-2008, 03:26 PM
The demo works fine with my Geforce 260 under Xp32 using the latest nvidia drivers. I cant go higher than about 2,5million polys though, because its runs out of memory if i try and subdivide more.

Why get defensive then? :shrug: I didn't call you or anyone else here a "howling fanboy", if MB suits you and it doesn't give you any trouble then go for it.

I wasn't trying to promote ZB either, it was just to illustrate my point to cheebamonkey about it being a matter of opinion. I also said I will give it a go in a few months time after a patch or two is released so please... put the pitchfork back in the shed. :)


I claim brain-to-text failiure, I wasnt being defensive. I was just trying to say "use whatever tool you want (as long as you have good reason to)" :)

SheepFactory
10-07-2008, 03:37 PM
Sorry if its mentioned already but if anyone has tried with a 8 core mac pro with a gforce 8800GT card I would like to hear how it runs.

BigPixolin
10-07-2008, 03:42 PM
Sorry if its mentioned already but if anyone has tried with a 8 core mac pro with a gforce 8800GT card I would like to hear how it runs.

Thats what I'm using it on and so far it is running great. I love it. I'm able to sculpt smoothly with all the veiwport features on.

aversive
10-07-2008, 04:20 PM
I just tested the trail, seems to be working fine.

No lag... maybe when I go to the highest sub-division level (about 2 million polygons), but not on the lower levels. Painting works fine. I haven't tried baking maps yet though.

I was wondering- What's the difference between Mudbox 2009 32-bit and the 64-bit version? I have Windows XP 32-bit now. If I would switch to XP 64-bit or Vista, using MB2009 32-bit, would I be able to subdivide to higher polygon counts, since I got 4 GB RAM. XP 32-bit only uses 2.75 GB RAM.

NicolasJordan
10-07-2008, 04:59 PM
it's a known limitation. there's a section in the help about getting around it, here:

http://download.autodesk.com/esd/mudbox/help2009/files/WS73099cc142f48755-4607e7cc11b1cfff571-7fa0.htm


Thanks, that's a big help.

pum
10-07-2008, 05:00 PM
freakin awesome!!! Been waiting for this for a while now :applause:

mental
10-07-2008, 05:08 PM
A few observations: On a 64bit system with sufficient memory (8GB+), the main choke point in terms of performance seems to be the graphics card. Any mid-range 8, 9 or 2XX series nvidia based card with at least 512MB of memory onboard should produce a workable scene with atleast 12 million polys on an imported model and 24 million polys from a subdivided primative.

Once you exceed the 512MB boundry navigation performance will drop. In addition to heavy geometry, display features such as Depth of Field, Ambient Occlusion, HDRI, multiple lights and most importantly paint layers will all quickly chew through gfx card memory. Cards with 1GB or even 1.5GB such as the Quadro FX5600 will give you a bit more breathing room but it is unreasonable to expect a Mudbox scene with 20+ paint layers on a 10+ million polygon model.

Bugs and display errors aside, Mudbox 2009 does deliver the performance promised but current hardware limitations force you to remain conservative in your workflow.

DaddyMack
10-07-2008, 05:10 PM
Ok.. I opened the 64 bit version on my precision 690 with 16gb and quadrofx 4500 and it's a major improvement over the skymatter release. I took the sphere primitive to 36 million with a few delays but once sculpting at that level all went well. I'm a happy Zbrush user (since 2004) and am reviewing Mudbox for commercial purposes to see if it fills the gaps still left by the app.

The performance is definitely better than Zbrush 3.1 at high subdivs atm but I couldn't get AO running. At 36 mill it was using just over 4gb of resources so there's definitely room for me to push it here, I'll have a deeper look today and see what it takes to really break it.

My first impression is that this is no Zbrush killer but will definitely provide a viable alternative for those who still fight the way of the Z but want to include sculpts in their pipeline. MB1 didn't impress me in this way at all...

More soon... Great thread btw guys:D

Trenox
10-07-2008, 05:32 PM
I had the lag issues also, but updating wacom drivers seems to do the trick :)

soulburn3d
10-07-2008, 05:48 PM
I was wondering- What's the difference between Mudbox 2009 32-bit and the 64-bit version?

More polygons. Yes, mudbox64 bit could use more of your ram, and hence allow you to subdivide more. I have 8 Gigs of RAM running 64bit and have several models where I subdivided into the 40 million face region, and still got interactive sculpting with no lag (unless I used really large stamps). 64 bit isn't perfect yet, still plenty of software that won't quite work in 64bit OSs, but the increase in poly count has totally won me over.

- Neil

samartin
10-07-2008, 05:57 PM
I had the lag issues also, but updating wacom drivers seems to do the trick :)

No luck here but at least pressure sensitivity started working! I really want to trial this version out properly but I can't. I think the ATI is a major factor here...

ambient-whisper
10-07-2008, 06:14 PM
Sorry if its mentioned already but if anyone has tried with a 8 core mac pro with a gforce 8800GT card I would like to hear how it runs.

im sure itll be fine

i tried the trial here and id say that 20 million would be a safe bet. you could go higher but performance isnt exactly the same once you pass a certain point ( as in, its not as silky smooth while you stay below 20 mil. )

but yeah, on my quad core with 8gb ram and a 8800gts its perfectly fine. there does seem to be a bit of lag after you place a brush stroke, but its extremely minimal on my system. however it is there.

the paint tools are pretty good, but i cant seem to be able to paint in the uv viewport which kinda sucks. :/ there are some major omissions too like the crappy colour chooser. i was hoping to see a good colour picker/table built into the interface, and perhaps a swatch, etc. I was also hoping to be able to scale stencils within the uv view and paint in there like i can on the mesh itself.

performance wise its good. it seems to be using some sort of subdivision patch lod method. where when you zoom out, each subd patch lowers in division, and vice versa. this could be why it gets a lot slower when you zoom in.

StephaneD
10-07-2008, 06:29 PM
just in case, to people who might be struggling with a geforce 8600M GT card like I've been:
try this driver (with the modded .inf):
http://laptopvideo2go.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21007
its not supposed to be used with this card but is the only one that worked for me
I have tried many different ones, even recent and always have had the same issues,
but this one just changes everything its just night and day, no lag before 25million polygons

elvis75k
10-07-2008, 06:45 PM
... i was hoping to see a good colour picker/table built into the interface, and perhaps a swatch, etc.

Agree! I'm asking for a new color picker since the early beta stage..
feel like i'm on windows 95 working with microsoft paint! lol
I have no money for a new video card, bet on the mainboard..
then: Autodsk do something magic to lemme work on my geforce 7 @ 32bit with my coreDuo :(

Now it's time for answers, isn't it?

SheepFactory
10-07-2008, 06:50 PM
Thats what I'm using it on and so far it is running great. I love it. I'm able to sculpt smoothly with all the veiwport features on.


Thanks man. If you run into any problems please let me know. i am going to pull the trigger on a MP real soon.

njanim8tor
10-07-2008, 07:00 PM
Anyone missing the lighting and material presets?

mental
10-07-2008, 07:02 PM
Now this is strange. Rebooted Vista x64, opened Mudbox and subdivided a primitive plane up to 104 million polys, subdivision level 10. The scene was choppy but relatively responsive and the only thing stopping me from going further was that Mudbox was using 7.4GB on an 8GB system (though it only needed 135MB of gfx memory?!?) :curious:

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9986/strangeqk1.jpg

DecWest
10-07-2008, 07:12 PM
Been tinkering in work - very nice, fast as hell, responsive and great fun!
Found I had major slow down when I added the Viewport AO filter and then started painting on Specularity/Bump etc textures.

Regarding the UV layout viewport, I cant paint on the UV layout either, I am assuming you can do this (like Bodypaint)...is this correct? I think the Map Baking is also much better (speed and quality)

I really wish there was better integration with the Autodesk family of products - come on Autodesk give us something a bit more than just OBJ export/import!

Overall I like it, I like it a lot! However like all releases I am looking forward to the .01 release to fix all the niggles *cough splutter XSI 7.0*

ambient-whisper
10-07-2008, 07:14 PM
after reading your post, i tried to subdivide higher, and work on it. seems to give me very good performance. 33 million perfectly workable, but only with smaller brushes, which is rather obvious.

subdividing higher than 33 mil seems like overkill because if i plan to texture anything i wont have any more memory to work with textures. needless to day i wont have ram to store undos in either. ( im actually trying to smooth past 33 mil right now and it just seems to have stalled.. :D )

regardless, 30 million seems more than fine. at those levels you are maily focusing on smaller details anyway.

PaulAdams
10-07-2008, 07:19 PM
Regarding the UV layout viewport, I cant paint on the UV layout either, I am assuming you can do this (like Bodypaint)...is this correct? I think the Map Baking is also much better (speed and quality)

No, sadly you cannot paint in the UV Viewer. This was answered on the offical forum.

I guess it's time to upgrade my GPU..

Nathan
10-07-2008, 07:45 PM
anybody tried the demo on a cintiq? I am using a 20wsx

I get really bad tearing when panning or rotating, and a really sluggish cursor. brushing is fine, it's nice and smooth and responsive. it's not a speed thing it doesn't matter if I have 1,000 polys or 32 million.
it's very strange, but it's smooth as butter on my second monitor even though it's higher resolution. I've tried switching which monitor is primary and that did nothing, I've tried different refresh rates etc.
I have separate video cards for each monitor and they're both the same with the same drivers. this is the only application that does it, everything else runs smooth on either monitor.
this is using either the pen or the mouse, doesn't make a difference.

pauldublin
10-07-2008, 07:45 PM
Hi,

I've just installed the trial, and when I launch it, all I have is a black canvas even if I select one of the preset models. Any idea what's up?

Thanks,

Paul

Swizzle
10-07-2008, 07:56 PM
Hi,

I've just installed the trial, and when I launch it, all I have is a black canvas even if I select one of the preset models. Any idea what's up?

Thanks,

PaulSounds like a video card issue. Make sure you have the latest drivers.

Clanger
10-07-2008, 07:57 PM
Hi,

I've just installed the trial, and when I launch it, all I have is a black canvas even if I select one of the preset models. Any idea what's up?

Thanks,

Paul


I had that, updated the ATI Catalyst to the latest version and it went away.
What I'm amazed at is all I have is an on-board graphics chip no actual card and 64MB at that so I wasn't expecting great things in fact I was expecting bad things but 32 million polys are spinning silky smooth and sculpting fast enough to be very usable.
I was convinced I'd have to go out and get and new card.

kmest
10-07-2008, 07:57 PM
veeery good news...im so exited about this release....just downloading the trial version to see how it works

skycastle
10-07-2008, 08:02 PM
Here is one of the most important things to do before starting the trial. You will have a MUCH better experience. :)

Hardware Qualification Charts
(http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=11734002)

SovereignKnight
10-07-2008, 08:07 PM
Here is one of the most important things to do before starting the trial. You will have a MUCH better experience. :)

Hardware Qualification Charts
(http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=11734002)

Why all the ATI hate?

skycastle
10-07-2008, 08:10 PM
Why all the ATI hate?

:) We are working to get more ATI specs. No hate here. Their cards are fast but our shaders were not the most friendly with their cards. We are working on that.

ubermensch76
10-07-2008, 08:15 PM
Still have the lag issue on a ATI 2600 XT ( with the latest catalyst and wacom drivers )on a Mac pro running vista 64 ultimate SP1 and 10 Gb of Ram.

Swizzle
10-07-2008, 08:17 PM
Here's a question for you guys:

My computer has 4GB of RAM, yet Mudbox only shows that I have about 2GB when I go to Help>>System Info. I realize that Vista is a bit of a memory hog, but there's no way it's using two gigs of RAM, so how do I get Mudbox to use all the available RAM?

mental
10-07-2008, 08:23 PM
Hey Dave,

Would you have an idea on how bugfixes and updates will be handled with Mudbox 2009? Will we see a small but frequent series of fixes or larger and less frequent service packs?

Thanks!

oglu
10-07-2008, 08:25 PM
swizzle are you using a 64bit vista..?
if not you have to aktivate the 3gb switch...

Swizzle
10-07-2008, 08:40 PM
swizzle are you using a 64bit vista..?
if not you have to aktivate the 3gb switch...Ah, that did it. Thanks.

skycastle
10-07-2008, 08:47 PM
Hey Dave,

Would you have an idea on how bugfixes and updates will be handled with Mudbox 2009? Will we see a small but frequent series of fixes or larger and less frequent service packs?

Thanks!

Bugfixes and updates will be like other Autodesk products in terms of how they get released. We are still hard at work on the software.

Spin99
10-07-2008, 09:55 PM
I really hope you don't mind me posting here.
Just wanted to make another comment, aside from the previous one that MB2009 runs like the stock market on my machine.

For the entry level people and enthusiasts out there I think you should get ready for a disappointment unless your machine is very recent.
I almost thought that this package was going to be the high poly answer for older hardware but it really turned out a disappointment.

So I'd guess Autodesk is making MB pretty much aimed at the professional workstations running Quadro or FireGl (?) and moving it to that market niche.
So if you have a mainstream machine or are a hobbyist you're probably better off using ZBrush, which I can confirm as being known to even run on space age calculators.
My 2c.

FreakWizz
10-08-2008, 12:25 AM
For the entry level people and enthusiasts out there I think you should get ready for a disappointment unless your machine is very recent.
I almost thought that this package was going to be the high poly answer for older hardware but it really turned out a disappointment.

Than it's your thoughts that have let you down and not MB2009. MB2 is faster than MB1 on the same hardware, any miracles above that is wishful thinking on your behalf.

So I'd guess Autodesk is making MB pretty much aimed at the professional workstations running Quadro or FireGl (?) and moving it to that market niche.
So if you have a mainstream machine or are a hobbyist you're probably better off using ZBrush, which I can confirm as being known to even run on space age calculators.
My 2c.

I think MB price and performance are and have always been aimed at professional and not hobbyists, if you don't like it use 3DC, Silo, Blender or more likely ZB. But as for Quadro users, well it's quite acceptable on my 8800GTS G92 which is a cheap consumer card.

ZB is also not using a true 3D paradigm or camera and uses a CPU Software renderer to achieve performance on low machines, it doesn't use OGL, and the convoluted workflow may suit you better, so if that's what you have than yes ZB is designed for you, but thankfully MB is designed for every other professional.

ZCtrl
10-08-2008, 04:49 AM
"I really wish there was better integration with the Autodesk family of products - come on Autodesk give us something a bit more than just OBJ export/import!"

That's really the only thing I think MB could have done that would make me move away from ZB, i hate .obj's with a passion, it's like this giant roadblock in what would otherwise be a seamless workflow. Is it too much to ask to have our tools play nice together?

ambient-whisper
10-08-2008, 05:02 AM
if you are working with scans, mudbox isnt the answer either. i tried loading a 800k poly file into mud and its a slideshow. ( about 2fps ). low poly sub to 30 mil works fine though

Spin99
10-08-2008, 05:48 AM
Than it's your thoughts that have let you down and not MB2009. MB2 is faster than MB1 on the same hardware, any miracles above that is wishful thinking on your behalf.Um MB1 actually gave me the highest polycounts I've had on this machine for sculpting. MB2009 crashes on startup. It doesn't run on my architecture at all. Is that my thoughts lol?

ZB is also not using a true 3D paradigm or camera and uses a CPU Software renderer to achieve performance on low machines, it doesn't use OGL, and the convoluted workflow may suit you better, so if that's what you have than yes ZB is designed for you, but thankfully MB is designed for every other professional.Yes and workflow is a matter of getting used to the paradigm. A couple of new shortcuts that suit the application very well. And everything that MB can do and more.
Yes I still can't get very high poly on my old machine. But I can block a couple of things out and learn the software. And I can polypaint modest resolution objects directly on the models.

But specially, ZBrush launches without crashing..

Baothebuff
10-08-2008, 06:50 AM
if you are working with scans, mudbox isnt the answer either. i tried loading a 800k poly file into mud and its a slideshow. ( about 2fps ). low poly sub to 30 mil works fine though

Hm...I just loaded a 3.5 mil poly scan into mudbox and it's still smooth as silk. getting 56 fps. But it is true, you get better performance sub-d'ing up.

samartin
10-08-2008, 06:52 AM
"I really wish there was better integration with the Autodesk family of products - come on Autodesk give us something a bit more than just OBJ export/import!"

That's really the only thing I think MB could have done that would make me move away from ZB, i hate .obj's with a passion, it's like this giant roadblock in what would otherwise be a seamless workflow. Is it too much to ask to have our tools play nice together?

I'm curious as to why you don't like the .obj format?

I notice you are a games artist, as for myself I have no real need at the mo' but my process would be MODO to MB'09 back to MODO so the .obj format suits my needs.

I think AD have done the right thing here as I am not using any AD products but I really want to get into MB'09. From when I trialled the 1st version it felt like really good in workflow terms.

Flo
10-08-2008, 06:56 AM
if you are working with scans, mudbox isnt the answer either. i tried loading a 800k poly file into mud and its a slideshow. ( about 2fps ).

This could be gfxCard or driver related issue.
I`m on a 8series fx card and get 70+ fps on a 1mio scan (taking up only 32mb gpu memory).
You could try to turn on `preProcessing` the preferences, some machine get quite a
performance boost by turning it on.


Also big thanks to the team for the latest release and all the hard work in the last few weeks.
Even in it`s early beta version it saved us a lot of work. I`m looking forward to the next .dot update (:

ambient-whisper
10-08-2008, 07:09 AM
Hm...I just loaded a 3.5 mil poly scan into mudbox and it's still smooth as silk. getting 56 fps. But it is true, you get better performance sub-d'ing up.

hah, you made me revisit it and subd that model..

whats funny is that the 800k model that was a bloody slide show ( 2fps ) is now 60+ when i subd'd it :D heh. i guess mudbox doesnt like raw polygons at all. as soon as you subd it its all good.

i really doubt its driver related. most likely just the way the software is designed.



Also big thanks to the team for the latest release and all the hard work in the last few weeks.
Even in it`s early beta version it saved us a lot of work. I`m looking forward to the next .dot update (:

i agree completely. its a great release. personally ive stuck with zbrush, but im happy about this mudbox release for a few reasons, and one of them is competition :D its about to get hot. currently zb 3.12 and mud 2009 are at about the same level of performance, with the edge going to mudbox because of it being 64 bit and being able to handle huge polygons AND more textures per scene as a result.

j3st3r
10-08-2008, 07:56 AM
I'm not too impressed. The sculpting is much better in ZBrush (in my personal point of view), those cgfx materials are not as good as matcap in Zbrush. Performance was great, more than 8 million polygons was really smooth. Symmetry sculpting was terribly slow, and laggy.
I'm possible the one on the whole Earth, who prefer ZBrush navigation to mudbox. God knows why, that to me it's much easier to navigate with the stylus outside of the model, than pressing ALT and then navigate.

I hadn't tried texturing yet. What is good in this release, that it will push Pixologic to make better ZBrush.

ThomasMahler
10-08-2008, 10:20 AM
I think the performance is pretty doggone awesome and sculpting-wise, it's competing with ZBrush again. Though I'm very disappointed that the painting engine is sooo freaking limited, to the point of the paint engine being completely useless at the moment. I wished and hoped we'd finally get a kickass painter (Mudbox has always been a mix between Maya and Photoshop to me), but painting in Mud 2009 is still a very, very raw thing.

Hope this is an area that'll be improved the most upon in 2010.

PaulAdams
10-08-2008, 10:47 AM
Whats wrong with the paint abilities exactly?

elvis75k
10-08-2008, 10:58 AM
The hotkey for texture toggle (shift + t) return me in this error:

Pure virtual function mudbox::Material::TextureVisible is not overriden in derivated class IBLMaterial

any workaround?

prayas
10-08-2008, 11:04 AM
Whats wrong with the paint abilities exactly?

The paint tools itself are cool. Some tools frequently used in PS or bodypaint i'm missing. Like dodge/burn some blur/sharpen/smear. I constantly press shift in the paint tools to soften the edges of the paint but nothing keeps happening. ;)

P..:

FRimasson
10-08-2008, 11:43 AM
The paint tools itself are cool. Some tools frequently used in PS or bodypaint i'm missing. Like dodge/burn some blur/sharpen/smear. I constantly press shift in the paint tools to soften the edges of the paint but nothing keeps happening. ;)

P..:

You'll have to wait for the next update ro have a smooth tool. and clone, burn, dodge, moire layer blending options, copy paste... i hope

skycastle
10-08-2008, 01:53 PM
You'll have to wait for the next update ro have a smooth tool. and clone, burn, dodge, moire layer blending options, copy paste... i hope

:) I hope so to. also for now you can use a "Refresh Selected" paint layer option to work back and fourth with Photoshop. This is what this feature was designed for.

Also here are some Quickstart tips created by Wayne Robson one of the beta users. Really nice use cases for Mudbox.

Mudbox 2009 Quickstart video threads here: (http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/forums/viewforum/97/)

prayas
10-08-2008, 02:09 PM
Thanks for that tip Dave. Actually quite helpfull to switch back and for with PS.
I need try to do this in BP too.

Otherwise very nice release. Sculpting rocks again. No more twisting my mind to the weird ways ZB navigates and then back working in my main app. These are additional tools in my workflow. I want the navigation to work like i know it.

P..:

skycastle
10-08-2008, 02:27 PM
I want the navigation to work like i know it.
Speaking of Navigation. Did you know Mudbox also has trackball style camera?

Go to Preferences>Camera>Camera Navigation Style [Trackball]

Click near the edge of the 3d view to spin the view. Otherwise it behaves like you would expect from a track ball style camera. Very handy for some items you may work on.

I will also mention that pressing the F key over the mesh with focus around that surface point leaving some space around the brush ring. Depending on the size of the brush ring it will zoom closer or further from the mesh. Some did not know so I thought I would mention this.

lovisx
10-08-2008, 02:52 PM
sweet! can't wait to go try this at home. Hopefully future releases will see more tablet pc friendly navigation. I hate to say it... but maybe even the optional viewcube?

Speaking of Navigation. Did you know Mudbox also has trackball style camera?

Go to Preferences>Camera>Camera Navigation Style [Trackball]

Click near the edge of the 3d view to spin the view. ...

P_T
10-08-2008, 03:42 PM
No more twisting my mind to the weird ways ZB navigates and then back working in my main app.MB1 has been around for a while now, why didn't you use that?

cheebamonkey
10-08-2008, 04:51 PM
MB1 has been around for a while now, why didn't you use that?



Because ZB has been around longer and has a cult following, more than Mudbox ever did. It's easy to find more people recommending ZB for the masses than Mudbox. I'm glad Mudbox didn't disappear. The interface is a lot cleaner (doesn't look like a crack addict spit up an interface after hitting the rock for a few hours in a quasi 2D/3D world).

elvis75k
10-08-2008, 04:54 PM
The hotkey for texture toggle (shift + t) return me in this error:

Pure virtual function mudbox::Material::TextureVisible is not overriden in derivated class IBLMaterial

any workaround?

Dave, SkyCastle: is that a know issue or just me?

millermeter
10-08-2008, 04:58 PM
Mudbox 2009 looks great and runs pretty good on my tabletpc but I have one big problem stopping me from moving from Zbrush and 3dcoat. There are no onscreen navigational buttons! Every other 3d paint/sculpt software has thought about those of us who may be on a tabletpc and cannot use “hotkeys” to move around on screen except Mudbox. I was hoping Dave or Autodesk would have added this by now but I see I’m in the minority. (everyone loves “hotkeys” but on a tabletpc I don’t have access to them and I’m not buying another keyboard just to use Mudbox )



http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8228/3dnaviqq8.gif (http://www.imagehosting.com/)

lovisx
10-08-2008, 05:00 PM
I'm with you all the way

Mudbox 2009 looks great and runs pretty good on my tabletpc but I have one big problem stopping me from moving from Zbrush and 3dcoat. There are no onscreen navigational buttons! Every other 3d paint/sculpt software has thought about those of us who may be on a tabletpc and cannot use “hotkeys” to move around on screen except Mudbox. I was hoping Dave or Autodesk would have added this by now but I see I’m in the minority. (everyone loves “hotkeys” but on a tabletpc I don’t have access to them and I’m not buying another keyboard just to use Mudbox )



http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8228/3dnaviqq8.gif (http://www.imagehosting.com/)

oddforce
10-08-2008, 08:12 PM
Does mudbox have a combined paint/sculpt brush? This would be so cool (and probably easy to implement). I couldn't find that option in the trial so I dare to suggest this as a feature for the next release?

atac
10-08-2008, 08:33 PM
hiding textures ... Dave, SkyCastle: is that a know issue or just me?

The issue with that hotkey is known. Hide textures by hiding channels or layers in the Paint Layer menu.

sforsyth
10-08-2008, 09:15 PM
Well, besides the constant, and I mean constant crashes on my Radeon 9600, the lag after every stroke I make, and the inability to use any of the AO, DoF or Tone Mapper capabilities (they ALL crash mudbox for me), the biggest disappointment is the painting side of things. One brush. That's it. That's actually quite shocking. No smudge tool, clone tool, blur, sharpen, etc, etc. Nothing. Just a bog standard brush. And layers you can't even move up or down (or can you, have I missed something REALLY obvious somewhere? - I mean, isn't that sort of one of the absolute basic reasons for having layers in the first place?!), there are not even blend modes for your layers, another absolute minimum you'd expect from any paint package. To call this a production ready tool seems ridiculous. I love the way it outputs the paint layers for you, and the normal map and displacement generation is class, I love how simple it all is, and overall the interface is just perfect. SOOOO intuitive it hurts. Just a pity then that the paint side of things is inpractical, and the sculpting so dependent on so few video cards. For it to be priced at more than ZBrush and not deliver a quality paint engine is a bit insulting really. And even so, I'm tempted to try and get into it purely because the interface is just so good...

atac
10-08-2008, 09:21 PM
...the paint tools are pretty good, but i cant seem to be able to paint in the uv viewport which kinda sucks. :/ there are some major omissions too like the crappy colour chooser. i was hoping to see a good colour picker/table built into the interface, and perhaps a swatch, etc. I was also hoping to be able to scale stencils within the uv view and paint in there like i can on the mesh itself.
Painting in UV view is not currently supported, but what you can do pretty easily is assign your object's material to a simple plane in the 3d view and perform the workflow you described (rubbing a stencil in flattened UV space). To help align features when painting in flattened space, first mark landmarks on the 3d mesh on another paint layer.

Regarding the color chooser, it actually does have a swatch system built in. Also, it may not be immediately obvious, but the paint color window is non-modal -- so you can leave it floating off to the side while working.

Can i not paint with a color texture? I seem to be only able to paint a texture using stamp or stencil with a single color i choose, rather than painting a skin texture using the textures colors or a mixture of both... So Skin comes out a pure pink or green depending on what i choose, rather than the nice mix of hues in my texture. Surely i am missing something obvious?
I'm not sure I understand your question, but lowering the strength of your paint brush (or if using a tablet, pressing lightly when painting) will enable you to glaze or blend one color with the colors on the map. Also, if you choose a stamp with color in it, the stamp's color is applied to the map when painting. The brush's color tints the stamp color, so if you want the pure stamp color applied make sure the brush color is white.

skycastle
10-08-2008, 09:51 PM
One brush. That's it.

I can understand that at first glance some may think so. I would encourage you to look deeper into what is there. There is a single brush class a few brush presets but hundreds of different things can be done with them though use of an unlimited number of combinations of the randomize sliders, pressure controls, stamp spacing controls, stamp images, stencils and methods to clone using a screen cap function. Texture layers also offer the ability to paint relative to multiple shading channels(bump,spec,diffuse...) and mixed bit depth or resolution within a single layer stack(example 256 with a 4k ). All of this painting directly relative to a high res mesh allowing you to register paint directly to your sculpted forms. You are also able to paint across multiple texture maps on a single mesh without issues of seams. Ease of use is also included there. Its great that not one person has asked “how do I paint”. This is important when you consider which tools to use.

For image edits done to the texture we have included a button to update maps edited in other 2d editing software called "Refresh Selected" which will update the active texture layer.

Keep and eye out for the 3d painting video tutorial here:

Click here for tutorial (http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/17592/)

atac
10-08-2008, 09:52 PM
... the biggest disappointment is the painting side of things. ... Just a pity then that the paint side of things is inpractical ...
Mudbox's painting system is actually very capable and offers a number of unique and powerful features. We've put a lot of effort into the hard stuff: flexible architecture with native support for uv tiling pipelines, high quality and optimized brush code, multi-bit depth and multi-resolution layering system, multi-channel painting and display, custom channel painting, high quality and high fidelity stencil/stamp projection, excellent brush performance at high mesh resolutions, consistent and easy to learn workflow/UI design, etc. So Mudbox has a fantastic foundation and is also already quite capable. But I certainly agree there are plenty of ways the toolset could be expanded in future releases.

[Looks like Dave beat me to this reply. :)]

abuminalis
10-08-2008, 10:26 PM
What about smudge-blur brush in paint mode? It's so important and it's not there... :(

FreakWizz
10-08-2008, 10:34 PM
I'm not sure I understand your question, but lowering the strength of your paint brush (or if using a tablet, pressing lightly when painting) will enable you to glaze or blend one color with the colors on the map. Also, if you choose a stamp with color in it, the stamp's color is applied to the map when painting. The brush's color tints the stamp color, so if you want the pure stamp color applied make sure the brush color is white.

Yes i have to choose pure white, which seems awfully odd way of doing it compared to other programs that use an opacity or transparency slider...But it also seems to suffer from a bug, because while i can initially set the color, after changing to a green and back to a pure white, it often will paint without color (or green) still. Also I didn't have Pen Pressure with my Wacom, I have now updated and run as admin and i do again.

But in all honesty 3DC has tons more appeal for painting, and nobody beats the painting workflow of Bodypaint3D, which is a shame because i love MB workflow and having the sculpt/paint in one would be nice for myself. But at the moment it's lacking well behind the others on it's ability.... I will continue to give the demo a workout though, but my opinion is it's not up to the standards that the sculpting obtains. There are a lot of other little painting tools missing at the moment IMHO.

skycastle
10-08-2008, 10:40 PM
What about smudge-blur brush in paint mode? It's so important and it's not there... :(

You are not the first to request this. We know its important to you. Currently you need to tab from your painting in Mudbox into Photoshop, blur and the tab back to Mudbox and press "Refresh Selected" texture layer. For now.

cheebamonkey
10-08-2008, 10:45 PM
You are not the first to request this. We know its important to you. Currently you need to tab from your painting in Mudbox into Photoshop, blur and the tab back to Mudbox and press "Refresh Selected" texture layer. For now.


hey hey.. back to the Area and finish that kickass tutorial ;)

piajartist
10-08-2008, 10:58 PM
very very new to mudbox, and have been tooling around in the new 2009 Trial version to get acquainted with it. I'm only seeing that it can handle 4096 maps... I thought they were allowing the use of 8k maps now, but it's looking like they aren't. I'm hoping it might just be that its a Trial version maybe, can someone confirm a newbie's suspicion?

mushroomgod
10-08-2008, 11:02 PM
had a quick play today, seems pretty cool - never used it before.

A bit laggy though, and my wacom seems to not be presure sensative, but Im sure Ill get my head around it :)

DarthWayne
10-08-2008, 11:18 PM
very very new to mudbox, and have been tooling around in the new 2009 Trial version to get acquainted with it. I'm only seeing that it can handle 4096 maps... I thought they were allowing the use of 8k maps now, but it's looking like they aren't. I'm hoping it might just be that its a Trial version maybe, can someone confirm a newbie's suspicion?

Create a 8k, 16 k or whatever you like in Photoshop (even 8x16 k) and then import this blank into mudbox...paint away.

Wayne...

njanim8tor
10-09-2008, 01:06 AM
Any updated info on the missing material/lighting presets with regards to the Quadro FX 5500 cards? I tried reinstalling but nothing changed.

samartin
10-09-2008, 07:06 AM
My LAG HAS GONE!!! Yay, it is actually a joy to use :o)

Using the latest catalyst drivers didn't sort the problem but this morning I had a windows update which was an ATI update and magically after rebooting the performance is as it should be.

Very happy and hope it hasn't screwed my other tools up! But at least I can now trial MB'09.

samartin
10-09-2008, 07:07 AM
had a quick play today, seems pretty cool - never used it before.

A bit laggy though, and my wacom seems to not be presure sensative, but Im sure Ill get my head around it :)

My Wacom also had this problem, but find the latest updates and that should solve the sesnitivity option for you. Also if you are an ATI user then get the latest driver.

Good luck

sforsyth
10-09-2008, 08:07 AM
I can understand that at first glance some may think so. I would encourage you to look deeper into what is there. There is a single brush class a few brush presets but hundreds of different things can be done with them though use of an unlimited number of combinations of the randomize sliders, pressure controls, stamp spacing controls, stamp images, stencils and methods to clone using a screen cap function. Texture layers also offer the ability to paint relative to multiple shading channels(bump,spec,diffuse...) and mixed bit depth or resolution within a single layer stack(example 256 with a 4k ). All of this painting directly relative to a high res mesh allowing you to register paint directly to your sculpted forms. You are also able to paint across multiple texture maps on a single mesh without issues of seams. Ease of use is also included there. Its great that not one person has asked “how do I paint”. This is important when you consider which tools to use.

For image edits done to the texture we have included a button to update maps edited in other 2d editing software called "Refresh Selected" which will update the active texture layer.

Keep and eye out for the 3d painting video tutorial here:

Click here for tutorial (http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/17592/)

Hi Dave, and thanks for responding. I can appreciate that the brush that is there can be customised, what I find really strange is to have a paint package with no smudge, blur, contrast, sponge, dodge, clone, etc, brushes. This is actually the first time I've ever seen a paint package without them. The reason for this, is that they're quite simply indispensible. I noticed as well that there was no response to the layer blend modes, also indispensible (and pretty much expected in the industry for paint layers nowadays), and not being able to move layers up or down is just... well, I'll not use the same word again.

Being able to customise the brush is one thing, but not having the basics there in the first place is something else. I personally was dying for Mudbox to come out (was hoping to sell my ZBrush license and jump ship - I LOVE the interface and simplicity of it all), am thrilled to see tga support and multiple maps and all sorts of good things in there, and now find that I can't use it because the painting side of things, despite all of it's cool features, means that I unfortunately can't use it in production, because it doesn't have the basics.

combination
10-09-2008, 07:13 PM
Quick look and under xp64 + 260GTX I am getting 70fps for that head model. Few display issues but overall seems to be working ok.

Edit- No lag that others have mentioned.

iskon
10-09-2008, 07:31 PM
Create a 8k, 16 k or whatever you like in Photoshop (even 8x16 k) and then import this blank into mudbox...paint away.

Wayne...

What's the point of importing 16k map(if this is possible in MB) when max output from MB is 4k?

oglu
10-09-2008, 08:20 PM
you can save a 16k diffuse, spec,...
but render no normal/disp...

if you need more texture ressolution use more 2k or 4k maps via muilti tile uvs....

kursad_pileksuz
10-09-2008, 08:23 PM
One of the most overlooked and sloppy thing in Mudbox is the hotkey editor. The editor itself is fine however the naming conventions are so different than the actual names in other menus it makes customization pain in the neck. They should rework on this menu and organize the stuff according the actual menus and names.

Where is toggling "smooth shade" is located in the hotkey menu?

Nathan
10-09-2008, 08:51 PM
Where is toggling "smooth shade" is located in the hotkey menu?

"Toggle Shading"
I managed to find it in about 30 seconds. I agree it should match the menu names, but it's not nearly as bad as trying to find hotkey commands in 3ds Max, and that's on version 11! ;)

FreakWizz
10-09-2008, 10:01 PM
"Toggle Shading"
I managed to find it in about 30 seconds. I agree it should match the menu names, but it's not nearly as bad as trying to find hotkey commands in 3ds Max, and that's on version 11! ;)


Hotkey Editors should have a single key to define them. So it should really work like this:

Click on a tool or option you want the key changed for hit "F1" for Define Hotkey, and then press Alt-B, from then on Alt-B is the function. This is the simplest way, and having a thousand commands names listed with their keys beside them is a little awkward...

But it still works, I changed my Wacom Express Keys to have B and Alt-B as Size/Strength
so a single thumb can control the brush parameters...

kursad_pileksuz
10-10-2008, 02:06 AM
I actually like that hotkey editor is very detailed and lets you even use modifiers or mouse keys on their own. However it is cumbersome and takes a long time to accomplish customization. I really prefer that stuff is grouped nicely and there would be filtering. For example I would like the editor to show me only keys that are assigned to ctrl or right mouse etc. This way I can also figure out shortcuts mistakes or find what is assigned to what etc.

I also have another problem I lost shift+draw((surface smoothing) and I cannot figure out a way to put it back. Things are not that clear.

Couple other issues with hotkey editor

-One problem is that there is no way to "save" your preferences. This sounds very dumb because in case of a crash you will loose your settings(as I did yesterday)

-There is no "ok" "accept" button in the menu. So if you press a key mistakenly it is gone and may steal away another function`s shortcut. Trying to figure out what you have done is a real maze.

Please this is not a minor issue!. Even a program like Wings3d figured out a damn nice way of assigning keys. Just press insert and you are ready to assign your shortcut.

skycastle
10-10-2008, 04:31 AM
Andrew created this cool Mudbox 2009 painting and lighting demo done on a laptop 8600m gpu. Gives you and idea of what can be done working in an 'on target' environment in Mudbox 2009.

Click Here (http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/17656/)

Click direct to movie (http://mudbox3d.com/movies/2009_bathroomWeb.htm)

doCHtor
10-10-2008, 08:30 AM
and methods to clone using a screen cap function
Could you please explain this? Clone brush is the one I'm missing the most. I was hoping for easy texture seam removal.

MasonDoran
10-10-2008, 10:45 AM
mudbox has a hotkey to printscreen the viewport, you can then load this image as a projection.

It is essentially the exact same thing as what a clone brush does in realtime, except this is the manual way with more steps involved.


The serious problem with using print screen to create projections is that it uses the resolution of your monitor, making it useless if you dont have a hires monitor or have to paint 4k textures.



But honestly, Dave and Andrew are not new to the industry, so I am pretty confident that they are going to get the tools we really need into mudbox without any fluffy stuff or less then spectacular tools that will get in our way.

From what it sounds like, they were really pressed to get this version released on time....considering the 64bit version and entirely rewritten brush engine. It was a performance update and not a features update.

doCHtor
10-10-2008, 11:03 AM
I see, thanks for the info. Seems like we need sp1 asap :)
Anyway, except the clone brush, great release.

mdee
10-10-2008, 11:15 AM
ATI cards have had the same bug forever with latency on raster to camera conversion (selections are candidate #1 to be affected).
XSI v7 suffered from it all throughout the beta, Maya did, and now mudbox does.
ATI acknowledged it and then took a life and half of delays and procrastination to deliver a beta fix.

It's been beaten to death on XSI forums and boards, and a fix was posted. Apparently it solved the issue for most people owning some cards, and did nothing for others.
You can run a search and try it.



The bug is still there I am afraid.

As far as Mudbox 2009, it's great release, but I am so used to ZBrush now that I can't really go back. Might give it more time tho - and competition is good!

mustique
10-10-2008, 02:56 PM
My Mudbox 2009 recap:

Pros:
Huge poly counts possible
Easy to learn and use
DOF - AO - ToneMapping preview for presentation purposes

Cons:
Not very stable
Texture Painting is basic stuff at this stage
Projection painting is very limited
Lacks lots of exotic Zbrush features
Less bang for the buck than Zbrush

Bottom line:
I'd only use Mudbox if it would get integrated into Maya.
Still for those who just cannot use/understand Zbrush, MB2009 is a neato app.

Swizzle
10-10-2008, 03:31 PM
Still for those who just cannot use/understand Zbrush, MB2009 is a neato app.Were it not for the schizophrenic interface and freaky pseudo-3D, I would be using Zbrush instead.

Stinkfist
10-10-2008, 03:31 PM
I got a very curious bug, Im running the 64bit demo on Vista64 and as soon as I installed my wacom drivers(intuos3) mudbox FPS just plain dropped to a standstill.


edit: I disabled every option for the tablet input thingie and now it works at full speed again. I can sculpt at about 35million polys with 4gb memory

cook5000
10-10-2008, 03:34 PM
So far everyone is talking about features and performance. It's great! I love it.
The huge number of polys makes me even forget about the missing retopo functionality. In Mudbox 1 I would have needed it mostly to get more polys in different areas. Now my only "problem" would be too many. I would change the topology in Max anyway.
BUT... :argh: No one of you seems to try getting your high-poly results out of Mudbox.

No matter what I do, Normal maps that could be baked without problems in Mud 1 are causing huge problems in Mudbox 2 :shrug: Same with Displacment Maps.
I know, most of the code was rewritten but baking was fun before. Why has that changed? :cry:

Stinkfist
10-10-2008, 03:46 PM
I dont need retopology tools in mudbox, and neither should you. What you do is export a mid-poly version of a few hundred thousand polys to 3ds Max, then use polyboost on that to get a low-poly mesh, unwrap the uV's and then import that back into mudbox to bake your maps.

Im pretty sure most of the major 3D packages have their own retopologizing tools that are far superior to what zbrush uses.


Were it not for the schizophrenic interface and freaky pseudo-3D, I would be using Zbrush instead.

When I went from zbrush3.1 to mudbox 1.0 it was like the heavens opened and it started to rain usability ;)

Sonk
10-10-2008, 04:26 PM
Bottom line:
I'd only use Mudbox if it would get integrated into Maya.
Still for those who just cannot use/understand Zbrush, MB2009 is a neato app.

If there was a reward for worse idea of the year, you'll win it :P. Speaking of ideas, i know the SDK is being worked on, just curious if it would be possible to implement your own scene space AO into MBx 2009 with the SDK?

skycastle
10-10-2008, 05:15 PM
Could you please explain this? Clone brush is the one I'm missing the most. I was hoping for easy texture seam removal.

What seams? There should be none.

Current yes clone by capturing the screen with Alt+P. There will be further developments on this.

We developed Mudbox 2009 paint to solve problems we were having in painting in production.

Things like:
Ease to get started painting low initial learning curve
Painting more than one map per scene in 3d
Painting more than one map per mesh without seams
Painting various shading channels like diffuse, spec, reflection and viewing them at the same time.
Painting in 3d texture layers that get saved with their alphas
Allow studios to paint channels of their own custom CGfx shader
Brushes that can project color stamps with alphas and jitter
Ease of projecting images directly to the models surface
Resolution independent painting(no `canvas` size and project true image res to the surface)
Directly brushing in 8, 16, 32 bit color for the highest quality
Paint in 3d without projected streaks, directly to texture space
Allow you to paint along with scene HDRI and real shadows
Allow updating and editing of maps in Photoshop or other 2d editors
All of this in full 3d and relative to high res sculpted geometry.

This is what we did not have in the productions I worked on and myself and others had frustrations with. So we started building tools to satisfy these needs and more in the near future. We expect everyone to already have Photoshop or other 2d tools for image editing and image preparation. We support a workflow that includes those tools. Mudbox should be used for application of paint in 3d in an on target, rendered, lit environment. Sort of how the make-up artist applys their artwork through paint to the actors or latex appliances but can bring in supplies from outside vendors.

Look for more painting tutorial videos next week

doCHtor
10-10-2008, 05:41 PM
What seams? There should be none.
Sorry for not being clear. I mean seams that you get in a workflow where you paint your texture in photoshop. In that case you get uggly seams on uv edges. It would be great to have a clone stamp like tool (from photoshop) which would allow me to overpaint those seams.

skycastle
10-10-2008, 07:47 PM
Sorry for not being clear. I mean seams that you get in a workflow where you paint your texture in photoshop. In that case you get uggly seams on uv edges. It would be great to have a clone stamp like tool (from photoshop) which would allow me to overpaint those seams.

This is just why we created Mudbox for painting in the first place was to avoid all those seams. Photoshop is the worlds best image editor ( I know some will flame me for this :) ) but it was not designed to apply paint in 3d to models (though many use it as such). Seams is one reason why not and also texture stretching being major problems. Also being able to register paint to 3d sculpted details.

Now to solve your problem in Mudbox:
Import your mesh
Create a diffuse texture layer
Import your Pshop painted image as a second texture layer
Press Shift+L (turn on flat lighting)
Zoom into the seam or area you wish to clone
Copy the screen color to an image on disk using Alt+P (defaults to My Documents\Mudbox\2009 )
Import that as a stencil and rub over the seam
This gives the advantage of being able to rotate and and scale the source before projecting over any seam.

iatriki
10-10-2008, 07:58 PM
Press Shift+L (turn off lighting)


you mean turn ON FLAT lighting. If you turn off lighting you won't see a thing

doCHtor
10-10-2008, 08:25 PM
Now to solve your problem in Mudbox:
......
Thanks, that works really good.

If this is the way how seam painting was designed to be worked with, it would be great if in some service pack there would be a system/keyboard shortcut which would go to flat lighting mode, take screenshot, go out of flat lighting and use the screenshot as stencil. It would make work much faster.

cook5000
10-10-2008, 08:27 PM
If you turn of lighting you won't see a thing

:wip:

May I use it as a signature ?

Swizzle
10-10-2008, 08:55 PM
Anybody else getting some sort of tearing at the original edges of the subdivided model?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/tearing.jpg

Using the smooth tool, and sometimes (but not always) other tools will make things pop back into place, but sometimes other tools just make the gap wider.

Also, I seem to be having problems with focusing on the area that the brush is centered on; sometimes it will zoom and focus on the area directly under the brush, but if I'm using symmetry it will just as often zoom to the opposite side of the model in the corresponding place.

Oh, I forgot to add this:

When you select part of a model and hide what's selected, pressing A to view the whole scene doesn't do squat except zoom in on the origin. Is there a fix or workaround for this besides simply not doing it? This was a problem in MB1.0 and it's consistently annoying.

mental
10-10-2008, 10:40 PM
Anybody else getting some sort of tearing at the original edges of the subdivided model?
I've only experienced that twice. Each time was followed by a crash shortly thereafter.
When you select part of a model and hide what's selected, pressing A to view the whole scene doesn't do squat except zoom in on the origin. Is there a fix or workaround for this besides simply not doing it? This was a problem in MB1.0 and it's consistently annoying.
One trick Dave mentioned earlier was to mouseover the area of the model you would like to focus on and hit the F key. This will center the camera on the closest vertex to the mouse pointer. It is not exactly what you're looking for but it's better than nothing.

NicolasJordan
10-10-2008, 10:49 PM
Anybody else getting some sort of tearing at the original edges of the subdivided model?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/xkostolny/tearing.jpg

Using the smooth tool, and sometimes (but not always) other tools will make things pop back into place, but sometimes other tools just make the gap wider.

Also, I seem to be having problems with focusing on the area that the brush is centered on; sometimes it will zoom and focus on the area directly under the brush, but if I'm using symmetry it will just as often zoom to the opposite side of the model in the corresponding place.

Oh, I forgot to add this:

When you select part of a model and hide what's selected, pressing A to view the whole scene doesn't do squat except zoom in on the origin. Is there a fix or workaround for this besides simply not doing it? This was a problem in MB1.0 and it's consistently annoying.

If I remember correctly I think Modo 301 had a similar problem.

iatriki
10-11-2008, 12:36 AM
:wip:

May I use it as a signature ?

wish granted

skycastle
10-11-2008, 03:29 AM
...some sort of tearing at the original edges of the subdivided model?
Yes. This is a result of the shading method. Your true mesh has not been changed. Touching the area can refresh the rendering here.

atac
10-11-2008, 03:32 AM
I mean seams that you get in a workflow where you paint your texture in photoshop. In that case you get uggly seams on uv edges. It would be great to have a clone stamp like tool (from photoshop) which would allow me to overpaint those seams.

Here's a video demonstrating a quick workflow for tackling Photoshop seams with Mudbox 2009:

http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/17720/

BUZZFX
10-11-2008, 05:38 AM
For anyone wanting a mac version of Mudbox please see this thread. Thanks! :)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=221&t=682623

CHRiTTeR
10-11-2008, 05:39 AM
Great solution for the seams... but still, a cloning tool would come in handy, not only for fixing seams, but just texturing in general, maybe something to put in later in an update or sp?

FRimasson
10-11-2008, 05:45 AM
What seams? There should be none.

Current yes clone by capturing the screen with Alt+P. There will be further developments on this.

We developed Mudbox 2009 paint to solve problems we were having in painting in production.

Things like:
Ease to get started painting low initial learning curve
Painting more than one map per scene in 3d
Painting more than one map per mesh without seams
Painting various shading channels like diffuse, spec, reflection and viewing them at the same time.
Painting in 3d texture layers that get saved with their alphas
Allow studios to paint channels of their own custom CGfx shader
Brushes that can project color stamps with alphas and jitter
Ease of projecting images directly to the models surface
Resolution independent painting(no `canvas` size and project true image res to the surface)
Directly brushing in 8, 16, 32 bit color for the highest quality
Paint in 3d without projected streaks, directly to texture space
Allow you to paint along with scene HDRI and real shadows
Allow updating and editing of maps in Photoshop or other 2d editors
All of this in full 3d and relative to high res sculpted geometry.

This is what we did not have in the productions I worked on and myself and others had frustrations with. So we started building tools to satisfy these needs and more in the near future. We expect everyone to already have Photoshop or other 2d tools for image editing and image preparation. We support a workflow that includes those tools. Mudbox should be used for application of paint in 3d in an on target, rendered, lit environment. Sort of how the make-up artist applys their artwork through paint to the actors or latex appliances but can bring in supplies from outside vendors.

Look for more painting tutorial videos next week


I can do the same in Bodypaint, the exception is that the hdr lighting is only available when i render a picture, not in realtime, PLUS cloning, blurring, burning, smearing, dodging and gradient tools, more channels available (transparency, reflection), copying/pasting portion of a picture, painting on a raytraced rendered wiew or in the 2d uv editor, and with excellent layered PSD support and blending options between layers.

Mudbox performances as a pure sculpting app are absolutely fantastic, you did a great job , but painting tools are still basic need a serious overhaul.

CHRiTTeR
10-11-2008, 05:50 AM
how does bodypaint perform on a model with millions of polys?

FRimasson
10-11-2008, 05:58 AM
Bodypaint can't paint on a model with millions of polys, or can't even paint displacement with realtime feedback.
No perfect app, but using Mud with bodypaint is a better choice than Mud + Photoshop... at least you can have a great sculptng app, and a great 3d paint app.

skycastle
10-12-2008, 12:22 AM
Wayne has a nice video on using all your Photoshop brush tips in Mudbox

Click here for the link (http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/17738/)

DarthWayne
10-12-2008, 09:42 AM
Mudbox 2009 Quickstart series: Mudbox to Photoshop and back again (http://www.dashdotslash.net/Mudbox2k9/Mud2Photoshop/Mud2Photoshop.htm)

Mudbox 2009 Quickstart series: Tubes and Rake brushes (http://www.dashdotslash.net/Mudbox2k9/RakesAndTubes/RakesAndTubes.htm)

Mudbox 2009 Quickstart series: Image based lighting (HDRI) (http://www.dashdotslash.net/Mudbox2k9/Mud_ibl.rar)

Mudbox 2009 Quickstart series: preparing photos for projection in Mudbox 2009 (http://www.dashdotslash.net/Mudbox2k9/PhotopPrep/PhotopPrep.htm)

Mudbox 2009 Quickstart series: Painting HDRI's in Mudbox 2009 (http://www.dashdotslash.net/Mudbox2k9/HDRIpainting/HDRIpainting.htm)

Mudbox 2009 Quickstart series: Tileable textures and displacemnt maps (http://www.dashdotslash.net/Mudbox2k9/MudboxTileableTextures/MudboxTileableTextures.htm)

Mudbox 2009 Quickstart series: Sculpting Trick (http://www.dashdotslash.net/Mudbox2k9/MudboxScuptingTrick/MudboxScuptingTrick.htm)

Mudbox 2009 Quickstart series: Use all your Photoshop brushes in Mudbox 2009 (http://www.dashdotslash.net/Mudbox2k9/ABR2Mud2k9/ABR2Mud2k9.htm)

45 mins in total - Many more in this series are due over the comng days and weeks.


I thougth I'd add the links to the entire QuickStart series here for those interested. While these are aimed at getting people used to mudbox very fast, very soon we have coming the 'Mudbox From the Ground Up' series. While the QuckStart videos ar start snapy and made available at teh moment in 640 x 48 resoluoin, the 'From the GRound Up Series' are all longer, very high resolution and an in depth tutorial series with professional production values. They are coming very soon and will be made availabe free to all. If you want to see a preview of the 'Mudbox: From the Ground Up' series click on the link below.

Mudbox: From the Ground Up texturing part preview (http://www.dashdotslash.net/Mudbox2k9/Mud2Photoshop/Mud2Photoshop.htm)

The series will cover all that it possible to do both in mudbox or using it and will be released in 'Waves'. Wave 1 is due very soon and is 3 hours long.

If you need to get a hold of any of the files used of some of the tutorials such as the Photoshop action file, special sphere or plane head over to the tutorial section of the area (http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/forums/viewcategory/95/) or my site which is in my sig.


If English is your second language you may find my accent hard to understand..or if your not used to hearing many none north american accents. But basically your getting hours of professionally nproduced tutorials for nothing so no moaning. ;)
Enjoy

Wayne...

ambient-whisper
10-12-2008, 02:45 PM
im kinda busy at the moment so i cant check but i thought id ask... is it possible to paint multiple channels at one time.. and paint accross multiple objects and multiple maps at the same time. lets say i have a lot of separate envionment objects and they all have their own respective textures. in order for the environment to work they would have to be consistent with each other. colour wise... surrounding detail wise... etc. so painting accross multiple elements would make the process of blending much easier as i could use a tool like clone. ( even though mud doesnt come with that at the moment ).

also is it possible to sculpt and paint at the same time?

just thought id leave this here to get it answered :D

vlad74
10-12-2008, 02:57 PM
Thats really cool Wayne. Thank you.

DarthWayne
10-12-2008, 03:17 PM
is it possible to paint multiple channels at one time.. and paint accross multiple objects and multiple maps at the same time. .....


Yes its possible to paint accros multiple objects each in their own map space. Its also possible to paint accross models with multiple parts split into a multi UV set.


....
also is it possible to sculpt and paint at the same time?

just thought id leave this here to get it answered :D


The way to sculpt and paint the same area is to take a screen shot using Alt+P with ambient occlusion active...you can then take this from the under folder in the documents folder and activate as a stencil, (this is all very easily done in the built in viewer). You now have an option to paint or sculpt the active stencil area (or invert it if needed).

This is much more veristile in that you do not need to use the same pressure for your texturing as you do for your sculpt. If you save bookmarks of the camera at different positions you can do the entire model like this pretty fast.
Hope that helps.

Wayne...

bunk
10-13-2008, 08:05 AM
Yes its possible to paint accros multiple objects each in their own map space. Its also possible to paint accross models with multiple parts split into a multi UV set.


Sorry but it seems to me this answer is incorrect.
If both Objects A and B have their UV's in the same tile and object A is painted on, Object B will receive the same paint strokes after a screen refresh.
But of course that is not what we were after. We wanted our brush stroke to continue on Object B.
To do so we will need to get back to our editing program and move either the UV's of A or B one tile.
Can we then paint with one brush stroke from Object A across object B.
Alas we can not, it only detects the mesh the mouse is currently over. I really love to hear if my findings are incorrect.

The way to sculpt and paint the same area is to take a screen shot using Alt+P with ambient occlusion active...

After reading the documentation on this I saw a couple of steps were left out for this workaround. Not to talk about the fact that a Quadro FX 4500 does not support the AO filter.
The correct answer for the question is "No you can not paint and sculpt at the same time." Just like you can not paint on Bump maps and Diffuse maps with one and the same brush stroke.

I don't understand why this misleading information is given. Yes I'm a little disappointed by the Paint options as well. But that is because I hoping for a BP on steroids and we got a paint engine with the very basics. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have it's own strength already. I wanted to check the quality of Projection painting with that of BP. I used a 8 million poly mesh. Projected some bricks on heavily deformed part of the mesh and it gave hardly any distortion in Mudbox. The result in BP will never be known as I broke off the operation after 20 minutes. It's easy enough to projection paint in BP but clicking apply on such heavy divided mesh will choke it. But then again it wasn't made with such meshes in mind.

I'm sure the Mudbox development team knows pretty well what is currently missing in the paint department and are already on it. In the meantime I'm happy with the 2009 update as it is.

mackster
10-16-2008, 11:23 AM
Good stuff! I've been looking forward to this one for a long time, and I've also been beta testing this version, and I must say it's a giant leap forward! Cheers Mudbox team!

skycastle
10-16-2008, 01:33 PM
Click here to learn how to move your Zbrush 3 project into Mudbox 2009

Click here (http://www.dashdotslash.net/Mudbox2k9/zb2mud/zb2mud.htm)

Sorry but it seems to me this answer is incorrect.
If both Objects A and B have their UV's in the same tile and object A is painted on, Object B will receive the same paint strokes after a screen refresh.
But of course that is not what we were after. We wanted our brush stroke to continue on Object B.
To do so we will need to get back to our editing program and move either the UV's of A or B one tile.
Can we then paint with one brush stroke from Object A across object B.
Alas we can not, it only detects the mesh the mouse is currently over. I really love to hear if my findings are incorrect

To do what you want you could assign a new Mudbox material to each object. Each material can have its own set of texture maps. But to minimize the number of materials I would recommend writing a script if your importing models from Max or Maya to layout UVs into tile space.

Yes I'm a little disappointed by the Paint options as well. But that is because I hoping for a BP on steroids and

Software development is an endless process. We fully understand the requests from everyone on painting. Thank you all for the suggestions. We continue work to on exciting features in this area for all our customers. Im hoping Santa Mudbox stops by this year... :)

Wizdoc
10-16-2008, 03:16 PM
Whoa, I'm really pleasantly surprised by the performance of that MB 2009 demo.

I was expecting my rig to die under the strain, but shockingly, I was able to sculpt quite comfortably at 8 million polys, just with my Geforce 6800GS 256Mb and 3Gb of RAM. I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that my Geforce is soft modded into a Quadro. Ambient Occlusion doesn't work on the hardware, but that isn't a catastrophic loss.

bradw
10-16-2008, 07:14 PM
Brilliant post! Thankyou Wayne!!!
I look forward to the full series of learning captures..

I've been playing with the demo at home and apart from no AO (ATI card) I am a very happy bunny. I've not had the problems that are being posted (thankfully).
The fluidity of the sculpting is really the key thing I'm happiest with.

Top stuff!

bender2674
10-17-2008, 01:28 PM
got dual quad core 3.0 xeon's, 8 gigs ram, quatro 4600 and it still runs like shit! i love the simplicity of mudbox, but it's a dog. crashes when your trying to create bump maps (which is a great feature!) and runs like shit as soon as you subdivide to any level. painting things runs real slow also. it's not your machine it's the program. z brush 3.1 runs great on same machine, just like the setup of mudbox more. what a bummer.

skycastle
10-17-2008, 02:59 PM
There is a video here that explains the process. You can import any number of complex geometries into Mudbox 2009, create a brush from it and use that to impact the surface.

See the video here (http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/18006/)

soulburn3d
10-18-2008, 01:54 AM
got dual quad core 3.0 xeon's, 8 gigs ram, quatro 4600 and it still runs like shit! i love the simplicity of mudbox, but it's a dog. crashes when your trying to create bump maps (which is a great feature!) and runs like shit as soon as you subdivide to any level. painting things runs real slow also. it's not your machine it's the program. z brush 3.1 runs great on same machine, just like the setup of mudbox more. what a bummer.

That's very odd. I have almost the same machine as you at work, yours is even a little better with more RAM and being a dual, and it works super fast on my machine. Wonder if it could be OS related somehow. I'm running xp, are you running vista?

- Neil

ambient-whisper
10-18-2008, 04:52 AM
got dual quad core 3.0 xeon's, 8 gigs ram, quatro 4600 and it still runs like shit! i love the simplicity of mudbox, but it's a dog. crashes when your trying to create bump maps (which is a great feature!) and runs like shit as soon as you subdivide to any level. painting things runs real slow also. it's not your machine it's the program. z brush 3.1 runs great on same machine, just like the setup of mudbox more. what a bummer.

i found that mudbox doesnt like dirty geometry. that last time i mentioned slow performance, the model was super super slow because i threw a really dirty model to see how it would perform. once i threw a cleaner model that was even higher poly it was running real smooth.


PS: dave, as a test i tried painting using an 8k tiff stencil ( worked ) but as soon as i tried painting using that map onto another 8k map, the texture on the model just dissapears and i get nothing.

thebuilder
10-18-2008, 02:06 PM
Waited ages to try this demo after watchin the impressive vids.

MudB 1.07 ran like a dream.

This one. Seconds ofl lag after sculpt and paint.

2 gig of ram 6600gt, not theb est I know. Dual core 4200.

Problem is it cant handle the same poly as mudbox 1 with the ease that version does. Its like a step backward unless you have a £2000 rig.

Without doubt one of the worst upgrades Ive ever experience, no in fact the worst after the video promises of making use of middle range hardware.

The most dissapointment from any pievce of software Ive anticipated for.............well.........for ever.

A big let down.

No ambient occlusion, even though my card does support it realtime in other apps.

DarthWayne
10-18-2008, 02:22 PM
The base unit I built for mudbox while beta testing only cost £600 and that included a copy of vista 64, so hardly a 2 grand rig. In this business you always have to keep upgrading and have the most powerful rig you can afford.... I didn't make those rules...its just a simple fact that if you want to stay on the cutting edge you have to be prepared for that. I've also had mud2k9 running on an old dual core with just 3 gigs of ram absolutely fine...

Wayne...

skycastle
10-18-2008, 02:37 PM
dave, as a test i tried painting using an 8k tiff stencil ( worked ) but as soon as i tried painting using that map onto another 8k map, the texture on the model just dissapears and i get nothing.

Actively painted textures and visible polys reside fully on the GPU. You could be running into a ram limit on your gpu not sure. How much gpu ram do you have?

And can we see your UV layout? Is it just a single tile space?

There are workflows included with the software to paint a high number of texture maps. for example you could have multiple 4k maps.

mccg
10-18-2008, 03:43 PM
I love the workflow and customfriendly UI.
Just the lag and crashes make it... :shrug:

skycastle
10-18-2008, 04:34 PM
I love the workflow and customfriendly UI.
Just the lag and crashes make it...

I hear ya.

Your issue does sound gpu and driver related. The software should be stable on the recommended hardware spec on the site plus quality gaming hardware.

skycastle
11-22-2008, 02:20 PM
Video showing painting using layers in Mudbox 2009.

http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/19477/

MHoward
11-22-2008, 03:19 PM
I downloaded the demo, tried importing a 300k mesh and it crashes every time I try to do anything...

My machine is core2 E8400 with SLI 8800 GTS 640mb, 8Gb RAM and Vista x64

skycastle
11-22-2008, 10:23 PM
I run Nvidia geforce 8800GTX driver 6.14.11.7824 and Mudbox runs well. So you don’t need a hefty card but the driver does matter. We are working on a service pack that will further expand which drivers Mudbox and some of the viewport fx run on. We intend Mudbox to run on high-end gaming or pro cards like the one you have.

RE:300k poly import

We designed Mudbox to import typical production resolution meshes and then `scans or hi-poly meshes` in different ways. This is explained in the docs and when you import a dense mesh we try and alert you to the proper way to import dense geometry.

Mudbox gets the best performance when you use Mudbox unique subdivision. The sculpting rules kind of go like this:

-Direct import 500k mesh sculpt slower.(We recommend you reconstruct your scan using Mudbox subdivision. see docs )

-Direct import sub 100-60k mesh subdivide to 500k or 50million fast to interact with

ambient-whisper
11-22-2008, 11:59 PM
Not sure if I posted about it but the issue I had with importing high rez meshes was because the model was work in progress and it wasn't cleaned up.Once I subdivided the model, the reason why it was super fast was because mudbox deals great with quad meshes, but obviously didn't deal very well with ngons. This is perfectly ok because during production I would never import models that have ngons in them.

anyway, what i wanted to get to was that i imported a really high rez model into mudbox as a test that wasnt full of ngons and mudbox had performed just fine.

this is on a system with a 8800 gts512 card.



Actively painted textures and visible polys reside fully on the GPU. You could be running into a ram limit on your gpu not sure. How much gpu ram do you have?

And can we see your UV layout? Is it just a single tile space?

There are workflows included with the software to paint a high number of texture maps. for example you could have multiple 4k maps.

It was a videocard ram limit that i reached. 512 ram on the videocard.
Is it possible to utilize system ram when the videocard ram limit has been reached?! I think that would be a great solution as that wouldn't force us to certain videocards, but rather use the vast amounts of ram that we already have in our systems :)

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