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ArtisticEndeavors
09-26-2008, 10:35 PM
I've started my firstattempt at textures and have chosen to go with making my own instead of going the procedural route. I'm starting to lay out my UV maps and am having a bit of an issue. Some of the objects show the test grid, while others dont. In the below image the only items that have been mapped so far are the pillow, mattress, cell walls, and the plane outside the cell. Why isn't the test grid showing up on the cell walls? Anyone have any ideas? Textural view is only enabled in the bottom left window. Not sure if it would matter knowing this or not, but I've shown the direction of the normals of the cell walls.


http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/ArtisticEndeavors08/prisoncelluvissue.jpg

Edit-Now I'm unable to get the test grid to show up on anything other than that plane or and the bedding. I'm starting to think its something on a per object base as the cell was the first thing mapped then the plane then the bedding then I tried other things. So seeing as the bedding wasn't the first, its not something i changed that affected it globally....at least that's what I'm going to assume as it makes the most sense to me.

metalliandy
09-27-2008, 09:43 AM
Hey ArtisticEndeavors,

To get the checker pattern to show up on all objects you must assign the material to eash object.


If you post the .blend i can take a look for you if you like.

Hope that helps

ArtisticEndeavors
09-27-2008, 02:43 PM
You don't have to have a material assigned to create a UV map. Look at the plane. No material assigned to that plane and it is it's own object. But there are basic materials set up for each of the other objects in this scene. If you check the screen shot you'll see that the cell has a material on it already, it is the active object and you see the basic material settings on the left, and if you look in the links and properties in the screenshot the material is assigned to the object not the mesh. Maybe that's the issue? But it wouldn't make sense for that to be the issue as the bedding's material is set up the same way.

Ill look into how to post up the blend for you, and hopefully others, to look at though because i need all the help I can get on this.

ArtisticEndeavors
09-27-2008, 03:46 PM
What upload sites do you guys prefer here?

fktt
09-27-2008, 05:16 PM
well, hard to say, but I'd have to say,
just as long as the file will be downloadable,
it should be just about fine...

Give it a try to http://box.net/ maybe?

Hecatomb
09-27-2008, 05:17 PM
You don't have to have a material assigned to create a UV map. Look at the plane. No material assigned to that plane and it is it's own object. But there are basic materials set up for each of the other objects in this scene. If you check the screen shot you'll see that the cell has a material on it already, it is the active object and you see the basic material settings on the left, and if you look in the links and properties in the screenshot the material is assigned to the object not the mesh. Maybe that's the issue? But it wouldn't make sense for that to be the issue as the bedding's material is set up the same way.


But you do need to assign a material before you can tell Blender it should get the texture from a UV map. :) Otherwise it won't show up when you render, and might get bugged in the viewport too.

Have you tried the following?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v380/Necrophagist/UVmap.jpg

ArtisticEndeavors
09-27-2008, 06:00 PM
Give it a try to http://box.net/ maybe?
Thanks I'll give that site a try

But you do need to assign a material before you can tell Blender it should get the texture from a UV map. :) Otherwise it won't show up when you render, and might get bugged in the viewport too.

Have you tried the following?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v380/Necrophagist/UVmap.jpg
You're talking about renders and textures that will show up in those renders. I'm talking about viewports and how things are drawn in those viewports. As you know if i were to remove the test grid and paint an x on the beddings UV map it would not show up in the render until I hit TextFace or assigned it a slot in the materials texture channel. However I can do that same thing INSIDE the viewport without ever doing any of that. Set the object you want to see the texture's on to draw type shaded and the viewport's draw type to textured and you will see whatever you have currently assigned to the uv map. So say that I assigned only the diffues to this UV map. Without ever assigning a material i can see this "color map" in the viewport fine. Will it render? Not unless I assign a material and click TextFace in the materials or add it into the texture slots for that material.

Below is visual confirmation that you do not need a material assigned to geometry in order for that geometrys map to be generated or to view what you put onto that map. It is simply a test image to view stretching. If I wanted to add a spec, bump or anythign else to this test, then yes...i'd need assign a material and start working in the actual texture slots of that material. You can see that the bars are showing how they should look if no map was made and thier draw type is set to shaded in a textured drawtype viewport (or how they'd look if a map was made and you loaded a new image with no test grid). you can also see how the structural bars appear white, this is what happens when the map is made and there is no image and the object is set to shaded in a textured drawtype viewport.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/ArtisticEndeavors08/prisoncelluvissue3.jpg

The only issue I'm having is that the structuaral bars (well everything besides the bedding) is acting as if there is no test grid assigned......but there is.

Here (http://www.box.net/shared/90k8zj4ky0) is the .blend. Don't pay to much attention to the messy UV's for some objects. The only objects I've REALLY been working on so far is the bedding and the cell doors. the rest of the UV maps were made to try and figure out why the test grid wasn't showing up on the cell doors, and as such are not as neat as the beddings map (which was made first) or the cell doors map (which I'm still currently working on lol). Hopefully someone can pinpoint what is going on. I'm starting to lean towards a buggy viewport......wouldn't be the first time that happened. I'm not looking for any tips on modeling or materials (but if you have them they'd be appreciated), I'm just looking for info on how to fix this issue. I'm willing to try anything to get these test grids to show up, but I'm about to the point of saying screw it and just go on with mapping and putting in the textures as you normally would and fixing up any stretching after

Hecatomb
09-27-2008, 06:26 PM
You need no material to create a UV map. check the plane in my post from above, the one just to the front and below of the cell. There is no material assigned to that plane. UV cooridinates exist the minute you add geometry regardless of if you add a material or not. Try it out for yourself. Create a plane. Then without assigning a material, create your UV map, drop in the test grid as the image, set one of your windows to textured draw type and and the objects draw type to shaded and watch the magic.

I know. I never said you did need a material to create a UV map. I did however point out that in order to properly display the test grid image (even in the viewport!), you should set it up in the material panel as well. Otherwise it gets lost when you reopen a project to continue working on it, because you haven't actually linked it to the object. You just displayed it in Blenders internal UV/Image editor. Which is fine if you want a quick peek of what it looks like, but Blender usually won't remember it the next time you open your project.


Thank you for the walk thru on how to assign a texture though. Your screenshot made the tut's i've read a lot more understandable, but I'm not to the texturing stage yet.

No problem, glad I could help with that. :)


I'm starting to lean towards a buggy viewport......wouldn't be the first time that happened.

Well not exactly buggy, it just expects you do do things a bit more by the book.

ArtisticEndeavors
09-27-2008, 06:34 PM
double post sorry

ArtisticEndeavors
09-27-2008, 06:52 PM
I know. I never said you did need a material to create a UV map. I did however point out that in order to properly display the test grid image (even in the viewport!), you should set it up in the material panel as well.

Well sorry if I misread, but even rereading it it still sounds as if your saying there must be a material.
But you do need to assign a material before you can tell Blender it should get the texture from a UV map. :)



Well not exactly buggy, it just expects you do do things a bit more by the book. hmm, funny you mention by the book, I'm just learning so everything I do is by the "book"'s I find online in the form of tutorials. I'm also not sure where you get this "by the book" idea at because there are a million ways to do one thing in this cg world, while saying by the book implies there is only one. Lets check the "book" anyway. Here's the online documention on the UV Editor (http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Release_Notes/Image) when doing what I'm attempting and there is not one mention of anything regarding materials in order to create a UV map and paint on it and have it show in the viewport. Here is the doc on the UV Editor (http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-233/uv-editor-image-window/) and how it works. Again, no mention of the need for materials for any purpose. If it was a prerequisite I'd only assume it'd be mentioned in the official docs. In fact the only doc I could find linking what happens in the UV editor and a material is in THIS (http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Manual/Using_UV_Textures) doc where it gives you a run down on the workflow required to create a finished texture, a workflow that completely skips testing out the stretching. It does describe later down in that doc how to use the test grid though.

Again, for you to assign a UV map and then PAINT on that uv map and see it in your VIEWPORT (not the render) you need NO material. I've done it 100 times today and I even provided a pretty screenshot for you to look at and see and a bit of a tutorial to allow you to test it out for yourself. That screenshot was taken after saving the file with no material on the bedding and then reopening it, so your words on loosing the map layout is also incorrect at least in my case. You can create a plane with no material, create the UV map, paint on that UV map, and view it in the viewport absolutely fine. Will it render with no material? No. But that texture will show in your viewport if the viewport is set to textured and the object you have the texture on is set to shaded.

I understand what your saying, when i go to actually apply textures to these objects they will need materials. But again....I'm not really applying any texture at all, I'm using a test image to minimize stretching of that map, not the stretching of the texture on the map....though that is a side effect of what i'm doing. it will never render AND if I set the objects draw type to solid or the viewports draw to solid I would not be able to see it in even the viewport.


However even all of this talk about the possible issue being the material is kinda counter productive. Going back to the first post you will read that the only thing in that image that doesn't have a material assigned is the plane in fornt and below the cell. Everything else has a material assigned, the bedding, the walls, the bars....everything. I will not, however, be assigning textures to these materials until I can be sure the map is without stretching, otherwise i'd just be reworking each and every texture I made with the map in order to fight the stretching i could have prevented before making them.


I'm sorry if this post seems a bit antagonistic it's not meant to be....its been along time dealing with this and its getting pretty frustrating as there are no answers coming from anywhere i look lol. And its even more frustrating knowing that, due to my inexperience, we're probably debating over semantics. The only thing I've got going for me is that even though the test grid isn't showing up in the viewports as I expect it to, it is showing up in the uv editor so as long as i get all the equally sized parts of the object equally sized in the maping i should be fine.

I am definitely appreciative for the help you've already attempted to give.

ArtisticEndeavors
09-27-2008, 07:31 PM
Just tested by creating an actual texture and it appears fine. To bad I've only got to set up an actual texture for any of the existing objects in my scene when any new one made will display the test grid without any material/texture. If I could figure out how to get it to show with the image loaded instead of showing as if there is no image assigned to the map then i'd be set....but it's definitely too frustrating looking for an answer to a problem when the answer isn't easily found and the problem is only a problem because I continue to see it that way. I just hope this is as easy for the other 'less than square' objects in my scene lol, but seeing as there are only 3 cylinders used in creating the objects in this scene i shouldn't present to much of an issue.....for this scene.

still abit confused over why its working for the bedding and the plane but nothing else. bedding has material, plane doesnt so its not the material. Grrrr

ArtisticEndeavors
09-27-2008, 08:33 PM
I'm just going to rebuild the objects that are giving me issues as I/m not have this issue creating any new objects in this file. I'm just unable to have it do what i want with these specific objects that are already giving me the issue.

Hecatomb
09-27-2008, 08:59 PM
hmm, funny you mention by the book, I'm just learning so everything I do is by the "book"'s I find online in the form of tutorials. I'm also not sure where you get this "by the book" idea at because there are a million ways to do one thing in this cg world, while saying by the book implies there is only one. Lets check the "book" anyway. Here's the online documention on the UV Editor (http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Release_Notes/Image) when doing what I'm attempting and there is not one mention of anything regarding materials in order to create a UV map and paint on it and have it show in the viewport. Here is the doc on the UV Editor (http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-233/uv-editor-image-window/) and how it works. Again, no mention of the need for materials for any purpose. If it was a prerequisite I'd only assume it'd be mentioned in the official docs. In fact the only doc I could find linking what happens in the UV editor and a material is in THIS (http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Manual/Using_UV_Textures) doc where it gives you a run down on the workflow required to create a finished texture, a workflow that completely skips testing out the stretching. It does describe later down in that doc how to use the test grid though.

Again, for you to assign a UV map and then PAINT on that uv map and see it in your VIEWPORT (not the render) you need NO material. I've done it 100 times today and I even provided a pretty screenshot for you to look at and see and a bit of a tutorial to allow you to test it out for yourself. That screenshot was taken after saving the file with no material on the bedding and then reopening it, so your words on loosing the map layout is also incorrect at least in my case. You can create a plane with no material, create the UV map, paint on that UV map, and view it in the viewport absolutely fine. Will it render with no material? No. But that texture will show in your viewport if the viewport is set to textured and the object you have the texture on is set to shaded.

I understand what your saying, when i go to actually apply textures to these objects they will need materials. But again....I'm not really applying any texture at all, I'm using a test image to minimize stretching of that map, not the stretching of the texture on the map....though that is a side effect of what i'm doing. it will never render AND if I set the objects draw type to solid or the viewports draw to solid I would not be able to see it in even the viewport.


However even all of this talk about the possible issue being the material is kinda counter productive. Going back to the first post you will read that the only thing in that image that doesn't have a material assigned is the plane in fornt and below the cell. Everything else has a material assigned, the bedding, the walls, the bars....everything. I will not, however, be assigning textures to these materials until I can be sure the map is without stretching, otherwise i'd just be reworking each and every texture I made with the map in order to fight the stretching i could have prevented before making them.


I'm sorry if this post seems a bit antagonistic it's not meant to be....its been along time dealing with this and its getting pretty frustrating as there are no answers coming from anywhere i look lol. And its even more frustrating knowing that, due to my inexperience, we're probably debating over semantics. The only thing I've got going for me is that even though the test grid isn't showing up in the viewports as I expect it to, it is showing up in the uv editor so as long as i get all the equally sized parts of the object equally sized in the maping i should be fine.

I am definitely appreciative for the help you've already attempted to give.

Well I think you're mixing certain things up. The UV Editor is meant to edit the UV layout and it allows you to do just that. You can load an image to get a preview of how it looks, but as soon as you load another image, it will replace the old one. The images do not get assigned/linked to any object at all. Once you've got the UV layout you like and you've seen that your image works good on it (no stretchy parts etc, do some paintovers (although I'd recommend Photoshop, Gimp or even MS Paint for that)), you can save your image, so you can actually use it as a texture on your model in the way I described.

Blender's UV/Image editor is simply not meant to assign any kind of texture/test grid to a certain object. It just gives you a preview in the viewing port, and like you're experiencing, they will often show up not at all or just plain white when you've been working on another image. That's all it does. Give a quick preview so you can add it as a material when you're satisfied. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want to properly texture anything using its UV Layout, you'll end up having to do it properly though the material panels.

ArtisticEndeavors
09-27-2008, 10:09 PM
You can load an image to get a preview of how it looks, but as soon as you load another image, it will replace the old one. This is very precisely what I've been trying to tell you the entire time.
The images do not get assigned/linked to any object at all. Once you've got the UV layout you like and you've seen that your image works good on it (no stretchy parts etc, do some paintovers (although I'd recommend Photoshop, Gimp or even MS Paint for that)), you can save your image, so you can actually use it as a texture on your model in the way I described.again exactly what i've been trying to tell you that I've been doing this whole time.
Blender's UV/Image editor is simply not meant to assign any kind of texture/test grid to a certain object. Again....meh well lets just quote myself from about 3 posts above

You're talking about renders and textures that will show up in those renders. I'm talking about viewports and how things are drawn in those viewports.
After awhile I realized we were arguing over semantics, but now that you've said what I've been trying to say, lets remove the needless info from your post (because I already know of it) and get down to the nitty gritty
You can load an image to get a preview of how it looks
Now taking what was said in these quoted words alone and looking at my image and applying what I've told you I've done.....tell me what is the issue with my previewing my "material" as you put it here:
That's all it does. Give a quick preview so you can add it as a material when you're satisfied. Nothing more, nothing less.
The only thing that is sorta relavent to this issue are your words here: It just gives you a preview in the viewing port, and like you're experiencing, they will often show up not at all or just plain white when you've been working on another image. only it has always shown up for me (except for these objects presenting the issue) and ther is no other image....there has only ever been the test grid. Also, that white you see is what you would see if there was no image. If you have an image for the map and see something other than black (like you would if you hit new image without the test grid) or your image....you have an issue....just like I have here. If you NEVER change the test grid the test grid will be applied to each model you unwrap. Now applying another image in the place of this test image may give me the white as well...that I cannot confirm nor deny at this point as I haven't gotten that far.

To summarize: I've got a UV test image set up, I've got the object set to shaded, I've got the view port to textured however only 3 of the 6 objects I've done this for are showing the image they should show. The rest show white. As I've said prior, there have never been any other images loaded for these previews, simply the UV test image.

So with all that said and with us being on the same page, as far as i see it anyway (there still may be some semantical issues present), what is my issue/

Nifty
09-28-2008, 01:39 PM
This is starting to sound complex. I just go to edit mode and select all vert's before loading and selecting UV image in editor.

Also to insure it renders I use TexFace in materials panel.

If this helps, great!!! If not sorry I have not done much UV mapping recently.

fktt
09-28-2008, 03:58 PM
Also to insure it renders I use TexFace in materials panel.


You only use the game engine?


And maybe it is time to just supply the .blend and get over with it? ;)

Nifty
09-28-2008, 05:04 PM
Found the download, going to play with it a bit and see what happens and yes, most of what I have done was for the game engine.

Nifty
09-28-2008, 07:00 PM
Ok, after playing around with your file for a bit I found i could get your mapping on wall by turning off the bevel modifier and on the f7 (object) menu changing draw type from solid to shaded.

Hope that helps get things moving again and nice model.. :thumbsup:

fktt
09-28-2008, 08:08 PM
Found the download, going to play with it a bit and see what happens and yes, most of what I have done was for the game engine.

ahh.. good pointing out, I now noticed the link.

edit:

I'm using GLSL, just to make sure..
When in solid draw Type make sure to hit Shift+T,
When in Textured draw Type make sure every object has got a material,
AND that the texture has been mapped on the object trough the texture input,
not just un-wraped on it trough the UV/Image Editor.

ArtisticEndeavors
09-29-2008, 01:18 AM
Ok, after playing around with your file for a bit I found i could get your mapping on wall by turning off the bevel modifier and on the f7 (object) menu changing draw type from solid to shaded.

Hope that helps get things moving again and nice model.. :thumbsup:You are awesome. I've already finished remodeling the parts that were giving me the issue, but removing the bevel modifer worked perfectly. Wish there was something written about that little bug lol. Not that Im sure it is a bug, but I'm sure i haven't found anything related to this issue lol. The only thing I didnt think of is the bevel modifier. I feel so stupid now because earlier I pointed out that I think this a per object type issue as it worked for a couple objects and didn't for a couple (but I was kept busy defending the fact that it had nothing to do with materials for a bit there). Whats the only difference between the models it didn't work on and the ones it did? The ones where the image didn't stay had a bevel modifier, the others either had no modifer or were subsurfed. I'm wondering now what other modifiers may cause this issue? I guess I'll find out about that when I start using them lol.


I'm using GLSL, just to make sure..
When in solid draw Type make sure to hit Shift+T,
When in Textured draw Type make sure every object has got a material,
AND that the texture has been mapped on the object trough the texture input,
not just un-wraped on it trough the UV/Image Editor.Im not sure what the GLSL is, im guessing a svn build of blender, but in the normal blender 2.46 download you need no material to get what I want, but you do have to have the textured draw type selected as your material and shaded set for the objects draw type. As verified above the issue was the type of modifier that i was using.



Thanks to all for any help that was offered.

ArtisticEndeavors
09-29-2008, 01:21 AM
double post sorry

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