story illustration

[CybrGfx]

Hi!
I'm short of time, so this is the "Condensed Version." Ask if you need clarification, I'll get back to you.

The heads are too small
the hands are too big
the path is too deep and distracting. Looks like a LOT of people walk that thing to the beach, but it's irrelevant to the story.
The giant's face is lit from the opposite direction of everything else.
The sitting guy looks nothing like a gnome. Do you know what a gnome is? I STRONGLY suggest you check a dictionary...
The facial expression of the humongeous, non-deformed gnome is totally wrong. Would YOU be all smiley and pleasant if you were tangled up in brambles? Do you know what a bramble is? I again, STRONGLY suggest you check a dictionary...
Even assuming this freak of gnomic nature is able to smile in his current position, would YOU still be able to smile with some tall, ANGRY looking pinhead giant dude bearing down on you SHOUTING? Just speaking for me, I'd be at least a bit freaked out and trying to get away from the shouting mad looking dude and the painful brambles...I wouldn't be sitting there looking like I'm waiting for a bus on a nice day.
THINK!

~M

[SylvanMist]

Hi,

Thanks a lot for the critique!
-Proportions-I'll get right on fixing that.
-Path, I didn't realize it was distracting, thanks for pointing that out! Any suggestions on what to do about that? I'm thinking either remove it by placing grass there..or instead of a clear path put larger areas of dirt with spots of grass..I'll play around with that.
-The man standing isn't a giant-are the proportions so off that he really looks that way? He's just a human.

-As for the gnome & his expression, I believe a bit more explanation is needed for that.
First the gnomes in this world are more like halflings in size/shape, diminutive humans(here's a screenshot from the game-world to see the exact proportions(human on the left): http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/fflewddar/artwork/gnomeproportions.jpg).
It's fantasy. Some people think elves as short/squat beings for example. No one's ever had a problem with this style of gnomes-or at least they never told me ;)..Anyway I appreciate your opinion on that nonetheless.

His expression I'll have to work on to make it more clear, but he's not scared so much as he is curious. He has a smile because he is saying hello-but it is a nervous smile, and his eyebrows are arched up in the center..it's not just a strict smile. Kind of like a "uhhh.. hi?" type expression..this is hard to explain, easier to show. But it is about his character as a person.

[SylvanMist]

Ok I updated this a bit.

What do you think of the background now? Does that work better than the path? I like it more.
How does the overall composition and color scheme look to you? I think I may still need to push the lighting more..but I'm not sure how yet.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/fflewddar/artwork/MortosMeetsNel_wip05.jpg

[SylvanMist]

Ok I fixed up a lot more things in the image, made it work better I think. Before I put work into any more detail, I'd appreciate some feedback! What's good/bad...How is the anatomy/lighting/composition? I really need to know what other people think! otherwise I wouldn't post here :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/fflewddar/artwork/MortosMeetsNel_wip06.jpg

[CybrGfx]

Roja, I do not post my observations lightly, or frivolously.
Oftentimes, I will point out things that others see, but do not choose to comment upon. Partly, this is to spare the artist any "bad" feelings. Sometimes, it is because I observe things others overlook.

But, when I do take the time to look at an image, and more importantly, take the time and effort to point things out, it is somewhat self-defeating to the artist to make excuses and justifications for the visual errors that are pointed out...

Your excuse about the "gnome" not looking like a gnome carries little to no weight, regardless whether others have commented upon it or not. This guy looks like a Harry Potter wannabe, and looks nothing, absoluetly NOTHNG like a gnome. Make of it what you will, it does not affect my Universe in the slightest. YOU are the one wanting to make a pleasant and believable illustration...

Since you call this tall, human looking a guy a gnome, then I call the hulking, overly muscled guy a giant. Yes, his proportions ARE off enough that he doesn't look like "just a human," unless he trains for bodybuilding competitions when he's not harrassing large, un-deformed looking gnomes...

The beach looks more like a natural beach, except for the hokey red blooming bush, and the very noticeable fact that your horizon line has a distinct downward tilt to the left...A basic perpendicular horizon line is always a desirable thing...

Your brambles still look nothing like brambles, your gnome looks nothing like a gnome, and your overall concept for this piece is not visually coming across. (One additional point of order ~ Why is the humongous gnome dressed for the Northern Shires, with a spotted shirt under his long sleeved tunic top, if he is in a tropical setting, sitting on a beach, and the other guy is wearing a sleeveless top? Can you say "Sweaty beyind belief?")

Consistency is in short supply on this piece.

If YOU are happy with the background, that is all that matters.
You've already informed us that you have justifications for everything else that looks wrong here, so what is the point of anyone else telling you what they think? The only other opinions you will get are either those that see nothing wrong with this, who will encourage you to keep going (which you should not need, since it's your idea to create this in the first place), or those who will agree that there are things that are not right visually, which you already know about. Of course, someone may pop in with new mistakes that I missed or overlooked, but generally, no. The composition and rendering of this piece are not that complicated, nor detailed at this point for any new revelations...Painting from your Imagination is a wonderful thing, and something we all enjoy. To then post such an imaginary work for critique, only to argue against the critique, but then want even more opinions, is a waste of everyone's time.

This is a nice painting, with decent rendering, and bright colors. It has some compositional and conceptual problems, but is still a nice effort. If you are enjoying the creation of it, that is the most important thing.
Best of success to you.

~C

[SylvanMist]

Your excuse about the "gnome" not looking like a gnome carries little to no weight, regardless whether others have commented upon it or not.

Please understand, I'm not making excuses for the sake of laziness or something along those lines. My "excuses" were reasons, valid enough in the world of fantasy. This is the size of gnomes that exist in this world. I understand that you don't like that-perhaps others don't either(I do not know), but this is how they are and really can't be changed at this point.
Now again, I DO sincerely appreciate your input on the subject of the size of the gnome regardless.



Yes, his proportions ARE off enough that he doesn't look like "just a human," unless he trains for bodybuilding competitions when he's not harrassing large, un-deformed looking gnomes...

Ok, without regard to the gnome, are his proportions correct relative to himself? For instance you pointed out he had too small a head and too large arms-which I hope I fixed! :)




The beach looks more like a natural beach, except for the hokey red blooming bush, and the very noticeable fact that your horizon line has a distinct downward tilt to the left...A basic perpendicular horizon line is always a desirable thing...

Bush isn't working? I was just trying to add some color in there, but I'll take a look at that more..and fix the horizon line of course!



Your brambles still look nothing like brambles, your gnome looks nothing like a gnome, and your overall concept for this piece is not visually coming across. (One additional point of order ~ Why is the humongous gnome dressed for the Northern Shires, with a spotted shirt under his long sleeved tunic top, if he is in a tropical setting, sitting on a beach, and the other guy is wearing a sleeveless top? Can you say "Sweaty beyind belief?")

Brambles I have yet to work on-Like I said I just wanted to get people's opinions on the overall piece before I go into more details.
And very good point about the gnome's clothes, yes that appears very inconsistent and that the overall concept isn't coming across says a lot to me, thanks for the observation. At this point it looks like this piece will just be targeted towards those it is firstly targeted towards-the readers of this story.



If YOU are happy with the background, that is all that matters.

Is it? I was just asking you-or anyone else- if you think it looks better, if it's working now. What are these forums for if not for others input? There have been many things I've been "happy" with or thought worked, and getting another's opinion proved me wrong!



You've already informed us that you have justifications for everything else that looks wrong here,

The only justifications I made and stuck to were the size of the gnome, and expression on his face. Everything else you've said I've tried to fix and work on! I don't know why you'd say this...I really appreciate your comments Cybrfx, In all honesty I REALLY do! I can overlook your rudeness and sarcasm for the sake of all the good input you have to say, but sometimes you might go a bit too far in what you are saying about people here.



To then post such an imaginary work for critique, only to argue against the critique, but then want even more opinions, is a waste of everyone's time.

So basically what you're saying is because I have a different style of gnome in this piece than what you are used to means there is nothing else to critique? You know, I see a lot of different stylizations of creatures and even anatomy-for instance those characters people make with HUGE hands. Personally, I hate that style. But that doesn't mean I don't see things to critique with the piece or can't appreciate anything else about it just because I don't like their representation of something.

You brought up many points to me. I only "argued" 2 of them. I don't see how anything else you've said-even what you've said abotu the gnome-is a waste of time. It certainly wasn't. It has helped me improve and given me a new perspective on the image.
So once again, thanks for the critique.

[crumbly]

Hey Roja,

Here are a few quick comments about your color and composition (hopefully they're not too general):

- The first thing that I would work on is the composition. I think it could be a lot more dynamic. Try breaking your image down into its basic shapes (without color) and consider the positive and negative space that you've created. There's not a lot of tension or movement going on at the moment. You might want to get closer to the subjects so their poses have more potential to affect the movement of the composition. Also, make sure that the background elements (trees especially) support that movement.

As far as the poses go, I thing the big guy's is very generic and, as they say in animation, twinned. Try working a line of action into him and push the pose as much as you can. We should be able to read his intent from his body language alone. You want to get to where if you just filled him in with black, he would still make an interesting, readable silhouette. (BTW, he's currently looking well over the little guy's head and not really engaged with the other character at all). Apply the same scrutiny to the other character's pose too.

- I think you've got a good palette going here, but it would be nice to see you break up your color a bit. The venetian red of the pants (for example) is very isolated. It doesn't show up anywhere else in the painting (the flowers are a slightly different hue) and it's sort of jarring for that reason. I'm not saying you should cover the painting with venetian red, but you could work some of that hue (with much lower saturation and varying values) into the trees, grass, clothes, even the sky (not to mention a small amount of color reflecting from the pants onto the sand). The rock in the foreground is another good example of this. Its color is isolated. I'd suggest you try to work the neutrals (or near neutrals) of surrounding hues into it. I think it could also go a bit darker.

- Sort of a general point -- to get color to really sing, you've got to position it against neutrals (which you've done well with the big guy's arms and the background trees). Try opening a photo in Photoshop sometime and just sample randomly around the image with the eyedropper. You'll be amazed (or maybe not) by how unsaturated, on average, the colors are.

- You've lost your color in the black shadows of the outfits and the high contrast of the characters makes them look like they've been pasted onto the background.

- The light and shadows on the characters and landscape aren't consistent. The trees in the immediate background aren't as brightly lit as their shadows (or the light on the foreground and characters) would suggest.

- I like the red flowers. You might want to repeat them (not exactly) somewhere else in the picture.

- The atmospheric perspective looks good. Those BG tree shapes are important; make sure you're using them well.


Hope that helps,

B

[SylvanMist]

Thank you very much for the critique Crumbly!

I'll try to work more on composition in the future. I do see what you're saying about it being kinda dull. Although I'm not sure how I could have added more tension to this, possibly just exaggerate the poses some more? but I'm really not sure. There is more tension in their faces, and I did try to make the standing guy look down at the gnome, I guess it's just not readable at a small size, here's a close up of their faces:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/fflewddar/artwork/wip07_closeup.jpg

I actually added the bush for the very reason to put more red in the picture, but I think I know what you mean about just adding color here and there though, sort of like just some well placed brush strokes? I'll definetly try that in the future.
I also lessened the contrast on the people, I agree they did look very cut & pastey.

Anyway thanks again. I am calling this piece done at this point though..have to move on to something else :p I did learn quite a bit from it though.

Here's my final version:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/fflewddar/artwork/MortosMeetsNel_wip07.jpg

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