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ThomasMahler
09-23-2008, 08:48 AM
Sounds like this release is going to make a lot of people happy. New, tabbed user interface, GPU accelerated throughout and we're also F I N A L L Y able to rotate the canvas! YAY!

Videos here:

http://www.mdialog.com/video/channel/17251-photoshop-cs4-sneak-peek

AJ
09-23-2008, 09:44 AM
Cheers for the heads up Thomas.

That guys eyebrows are spectacular. If you watch it mute it looks like he has something he's terrified of on his monitor...

I'm not sold on the 'preset' workspaces, but as long as you can build/save you're own it's no big deal.

I quite like the pixel level zoom view - but again, I hope you can disable it also.

I fear change.

AJ
09-23-2008, 09:47 AM
Oh - and I'm very keen to see how 'throwing' the canvas around is going to work on a 10'000 pixel, multi-layered image...

greyface
09-23-2008, 09:57 AM
Looks good, GPU acceleration is a must - had to turn the sound off though, that guy's comments were driving me nuts..

Hecartha
09-23-2008, 10:18 AM
top new features from adobe
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/photoshop/features/?view=topnew

ThomasMahler
09-23-2008, 10:23 AM
From an artists perspective, this seems to become the most useful release in a very loooong time.

blank
09-23-2008, 11:55 AM
anyone know much about the 3d object painting in the CS4 extended version? doesn't say much or whether you can use layers etc

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/photoshopextended/features/?view=topnew

erilaz
09-23-2008, 12:08 PM
anyone know much about the 3d object painting in the CS4 extended version? doesn't say much or whether you can use layers etc

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/photoshopextended/features/?view=topnew

You can drop existing layers onto the 3d layer (sort of like using the layer merge as a texture projection), but I don't believe you can texture paint in layers.

combination
09-23-2008, 12:10 PM
I want the option to connect canvas rotation to physical rotation of the tablet.

Texlon
09-23-2008, 12:21 PM
I agree it looks quite promising and includes features that are long overdue.
like the new canvas rotation that painter has for years :rolleyes:
I am also interested in the feel and performance of it, hoping it can cope with a 4k+ picture being rotated and flipped frequently. oh yeah and what's with layers and stuff like that?

The 3d painting is weird though, in the previews they tell you that there's no unwrapping required... how about that? :curious:
I can't believe it's something similar to poly/vertex painting, doesn't look like it.
If it works as I suspect it to we got ourselves a worthy alternative to bodypaint and co.
As PS is pretty much standard for texture work it's nice for not having to switch apps.
well, we'll see.

The GPU accelerated pixel level zoom looks nice, but I have yet to grasp the necessity for it.
The UI looks tidied up quite a bit, wait and see if it really speeds things up.

Lone Deranger
09-23-2008, 12:23 PM
I played around with the beta a few months ago on a new 8-core Mac Pro. It was smooth as butter. (Though the image in question was more in the region of 4-6K... 16 bit though).

Oh - and I'm very keen to see how 'throwing' the canvas around is going to work on a 10'000 pixel, multi-layered image...

combination
09-23-2008, 12:44 PM
Photoshop- Microsoft® Windows® XP with Service Pack 2 (Service Pack 3 recommended) or Windows Vista® Home Premium, Business, Ultimate, or Enterprise with Service Pack 1 (certified for 32-bit Windows XP and 32-bit and 64-bit Windows Vista)

Master collection- Microsoft® Windows® XP with Service Pack 2 (Service Pack 3 recommended) or Windows Vista® Home Premium, Business, Ultimate, or Enterprise with Service Pack 1 (certified for 32-bit Windows XP and Windows Vista)

Photoshop system requirement says certified for 64-bit Vista. Can someone clarify if Master collection is certified for Vista-64 or Vista-32 only?

Time to move from XP64 to Vista 64?

garryclarke
09-23-2008, 01:11 PM
Looks very interesting, and I'm tempted to upgrade but it's £323! to upgrade! WTF!

I don't want to start another debate about the difference in cost between the US and Europe (nearly twice the price BTW) But £323 is a lot of money.


- Garry

playmesumch00ns
09-23-2008, 01:22 PM
Video won't play for me on linux... quel surprise :)

Sounds aweome though.

rmac
09-23-2008, 02:23 PM
Photoshop system requirement says certified for 64-bit Vista. Can someone clarify if Master collection is certified for Vista-64 or Vista-32 only?

Time to move from XP64 to Vista 64?

Flash may not be set up for 64 bit yet. There may be other programs that are 32 bit programs, while Photoshop is 64.

Texlon
09-23-2008, 03:00 PM
There may be other programs that are 32 bit programs, while Photoshop is 64.the win version is 64bit but the mac version is still 32bit, isn't it?

Felipe
09-23-2008, 03:19 PM
Trial versions for CS4 apps are available for downloading at Adobe site. I'm going to d/l PS4 when I get home tonight.

Kabab
09-23-2008, 03:25 PM
**** we just bought CS3 at work!!! would be nice if there is a grace period upgrade...

rartist
09-23-2008, 03:50 PM
CS4 looks like its going to have some nice things added to it. I'm still looking for in CS4 the same thing I was looking for in CS3: marking menues ala Maya & Modo. I always find myself reaching around for menues in PS (tedious on a large hires monitor). The CS4 tabs look like they will be an improvement on the old menu system, nothing beats the speed of a quick flick to a marking menu to get what I want.

Magnus3D
09-23-2008, 04:01 PM
Where is this demo download ? i can't see it on Adobe's website. All i could see is that i can request that they send me more info when it's possible to download but it's not looking like it's there now.

/ Magnus

Felipe
09-23-2008, 04:06 PM
well, at least here http://www.adobe.com/downloads/ it seems to be available, but I could be wrong though since I can't download here at work.

Texlon
09-23-2008, 04:10 PM
Well, all there is when you click on trial is a form for a notification request:
"Please alert me when the selected products are available for purchase or trial."
So there's no downloadable content available yet. sad, but true.

Magnus3D
09-23-2008, 04:30 PM
Aw crap, i almost got excited when i read that they put up a demo already. Thanks for your quick reply guys. But once Adobe drop it on their site, it shall be downloaded and hardcore tested. :)

CS4 looks like a lovely upgrade, best one so far from Adobe.

/ Magnus

mustique
09-23-2008, 04:48 PM
I'm wondering how well "context sensitive resizing" works as a batch process to resize an entire image sequence... Maybe it could serve as a PAL>NTSC>HD conversion tool with appropiate footage.

LucentDreams
09-23-2008, 05:06 PM
I'm wondering how well "context sensitive resizing" works as a batch process to resize an entire image sequence... Maybe it could serve as a PAL>NTSC>HD conversion tool with appropiate footage.

this year at siggraph they had a paper on a video version of the same technique

heavyness
09-23-2008, 05:22 PM
little off subject...

Flash CS4 now has Inverse Kinematics and a Motion Editor window...

http://www.adobe.com/products/flash/features/?view=topnew

...very cool for 2d animation.



well i hope the CS4 products run faster then CS3s [i'm looking at you Photoshop].

CHRiTTeR
09-23-2008, 05:34 PM
well i hope the CS4 products run faster then CS3s [i'm looking at you Photoshop].

Hehe, if it doesnt they must've done something REALLY REALLY wrong with the GPU/OpenGL support, lol

instinct-vfx
09-23-2008, 05:52 PM
little off subject...

Flash CS4 now has Inverse Kinematics and a Motion Editor window...

...very cool for 2d animation.


Nice to see, tho that has been in other more animation targeted apps since ages.

Rotating Canvas and GPU are nice, but i wont trust it until i see it...would be more then surprised if it was an actual speed wonder (given the darn thing is more then a Gigabyte in size these dazs :P )

Regards,
Thorsten

cheebamonkey
09-23-2008, 06:19 PM
great time to be a PC owner running adobe apps! gpu 64bit goodness.. wooohah!

CIM
09-23-2008, 09:28 PM
Photoshop CS4 Details (http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/09/cs4_sweating_the_details.html)

In addition to the Rotate View Tool, Photoshop CS4 also has drag-resizing similar to Painter's. Is there any reason to use Painter anymore?

@Texlon: Yes, the Mac version is 32-bit.

lostpencil
09-23-2008, 09:34 PM
**** we just bought CS3 at work!!! would be nice if there is a grace period upgrade...

We did the same with After Effects CS3 (bought the upgrade two weeks ago)... I called them up and we get the AE CS4 upgrade for free. Nice. You may want to give them a call.

CHRiTTeR
09-23-2008, 09:36 PM
Photoshop CS4 Details (http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/09/cs4_sweating_the_details.html)

In addition to the Rotate View Tool, Photoshop CS4 also has drag-resizing similar to Painter's. Is there any reason to use Painter anymore?

@Texlon: Yes, the Mac version is 32-bit.

Doesnt painter simulate the smearing of wet paint and stuff? Dont think photoshop does that (yet)

R3desiGN
09-23-2008, 10:48 PM
Damn, why couldn't they release the trials today? :/

I'm curious if a GPU like GeForce 8400GS is gonna make any difference in terms of performance.

ptech
09-23-2008, 11:01 PM
So Adobe Photoshop CS4 now has a new 3D RAYTRACER.... does this mean adobe really does now enter the 3d rendering market??? - use photoshop for everything - both 2d editing and your complete 3d rendering...

- the press release just states

'PS CS4 3D engine has been rebuilt from the ground up to provide faster performance, allow editing of properties like light and the ability to create more realistic renderings with a new high-quality ray-tracer.'

do we know if its Adobe's own raytracer or have they put in one of the usual suspects MR, Vray,Brazil, Maxwell ..... ?

aglick
09-23-2008, 11:03 PM
My understanding is that PARTS of CS4 Photoshop will be 64bit-aware.

This is NOT THE SAME as saying that all CS4 apps will be 64bit-native applications.

The underpinnings of a migration to 64bit architecture have been implemented in CS4, however my understanding of the situation is that we will have to wait until CS5 for true 64bit functionality in applications such as Premier and AE.

aglick
09-23-2008, 11:29 PM
So Adobe Photoshop CS4 now has a new 3D RAYTRACER.... does this mean adobe really does now enter the 3d rendering market??? - use photoshop for everything - both 2d editing and your complete 3d rendering...
-

I highly doubt it.

With Photoshop now enabling primitive interaction with and texturing/lighting of 3D geometry, it was necessary for them to implement SOME kind of rendering engine so that the image could be rasterized.

Raytracers are very quick now given recent advances in processor technology and raytracing algorthms are very efficient. Scanline rendering is "old hat".

So now we get a raytracer in Photoshop. What does this mean for 3D artists?

probably not much.

We will still want to do our lighting and rendering (if not our texturing and painting) inside of our 3D application.

Why?

It is very likely that Photoshop won't support FBX -or anything like it. This means that Photoshop can't know anything about our 3D scene. The lights, the other objects in the space, the materials, nothing.

It is also almost certain that the "raytracer" in Photoshop will be very primitive compared to mental ray, VRAY or any other full-featured raytracer.

For graphics artists using Photoshop who think they might want to use the occasional 3D object in their scene, this is going be be a "cool as shit" new feature.

For others...maybe not so much.

Of course, I have been proven wrong before so I say all this with an admission that i may end up being wrong.

Should be interesting though...


Adam
BOXXlabs

DuttyFoot
09-23-2008, 11:30 PM
man, i just bought cs3 production bundle last month, i wonder what kinda deal i can get from adobe

Mobious
09-24-2008, 12:33 AM
For graphics artists using Photoshop who think they might want to use the occasional 3D object in their scene, this is going be be a "cool as shit" new feature.

*raises hand* :arteest:


Although, it certainly shows their willingness to keep exploring that avenue.

By the time I'm actually capable of making anything worthwhile in 3D to use other features, hopefully Photoshop's usefullness will have expanded. I think that can be expected though.

The only thing I don't get is the ugly as hell UI. I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter, as long as it gets the job done (by the looks of it, I think it will...) but when you're looking at something for hours and hours a day, its nice to have it looking... nice...

I love CS3. I dont know why they had to screw with it. This thing looks like a beta UI that never got the final touches.

erilaz
09-24-2008, 12:40 AM
To be honest I just wish they'd leave the whole 3D thing out of it and stick to what they're good at.

FreakWizz
09-24-2008, 02:57 AM
To be honest I just wish they'd leave the whole 3D thing out of it and stick to what they're good at.

Yep, Photoshop CS3 was the worst release of PS ever, and a lot of the instability and lacklustre features centered around the 3D features which were/are poor....Adobe are about 10 years behind what DeepPaint, Bodypaint or 3DC offered us... And now MB2 as well, So Photoshop should of concentrated on 2D.

It's made Photoshop very messy and more unreliable than ever, and i would never use it for 3D painting as BP already does that for myself. Too little too late from Adobe. Now it will manage to be half-assed at both 2D and 3D painting.

SheepFactory
09-24-2008, 03:02 AM
Sorry if this has been answered already but I couldnt see it on the main site. When is it coming out, do we know?

erilaz
09-24-2008, 03:23 AM
Sorry if this has been answered already but I couldnt see it on the main site. When is it coming out, do we know?

The official announcment should be today, but it's expected this quarter, if not October.

But then things change. Some of the products are still in beta I believe.

ElectricIris
09-24-2008, 04:04 AM
It is very likely that Photoshop won't support FBX -or anything like it. This means that Photoshop can't know anything about our 3D scene. The lights, the other objects in the space, the materials, nothing.


Take a look at Enzo ( http://www.enzo3d.com ) for painting 3D models inside Photoshop. It has a 3D engine that allows loading Maya .MB, .MA, .FBX, LightWave, .3DS, .XSI, .OBJ, and Rhino files straight into Photoshop. It works on Photoshop 7, CS, CS2, and CS3. We released it about a year and a half ago, and have been quietly working on it ever since, improving stability, speed, and adding tighter integration into Photoshop. Enzo can break up your 3D scene into "3D" layers, one 3D layer corresponding to each 2D texture layer. And it fully supports Adjustment Layers, Layer Masks, and Blending options and Effects, all as part of Enzo's own 3D layers.

The demo videos will be redone and expanded, with narration, and the documentation updated. We are really still focusing on polishing development: Adding the ability to paint 4K and 8K texture maps, increasing paint projection speed, and so on.

Keep Enzo on your radar, its continually moving forward. ;)

.

R10k
09-24-2008, 06:47 AM
Good old Adobe... I wonder if the Australian price for their suites still includes $1000 worth of 'support', which is missing from the US versions?

ptech
09-24-2008, 07:15 AM
it seems the new 3D RAYTRACER in the new CS4 may be more advanced than we would expect from previous versions of PS.


this report states - 'the Ray tracer including: 32-bit HDR rendering; soft shadows; and diffuse inter-reflection.'

see here http://thedigitalbean.blogspot.com/2008/09/cat-is-out-of-bag-photoshop-cs4.html

erilaz
09-24-2008, 07:16 AM
Good old Adobe... I wonder if the Australian price for their suites still includes $1000 worth of 'support', which is missing from the US versions?

According to the Australian store,
Adobe Production Premium Suite CS4 is $2,359.00 ($1,978.00 US)

According to the United States store,
Adobe Production Premium Suite CS4 is $2,026.00 ($1,699.00 US)

According to the United Kingdom store,
Adobe Production Premium Suite CS4 is £1655.58 ($3,072.00 US)

These are at current exchange rates anyway.

Keep in mind it's less if you order the download version.

It looks like the UK gets screwed again.

.

R10k
09-24-2008, 07:34 AM
Interesting... it looks like UK now gets $1000 worth of 'support' (according to Adobe). Or, a purchase from the Toolfarm might get past that stupidity.

Layer01
09-24-2008, 07:37 AM
sticky keys!
Canvas rotate!
Pixel grid!
Tabs!
And more!!? :surprised

Oh boy! :bounce:

AJ
09-24-2008, 09:21 AM
Interesting... it looks like UK now gets $1000 worth of 'support' (according to Adobe).For $1000 I want each copy to shift with a titanium bra.

philnolan3d
09-24-2008, 09:22 AM
It is also almost certain that the "raytracer" in Photoshop will be very primitive compared to mental ray, VRAY or any other full-featured raytracer.

For graphics artists using Photoshop who think they might want to use the occasional 3D object in their scene, this is going be be a "cool as shit" new feature.

For others...maybe not so much.


There's always LightWave Rendition
http://www.newtek.com/rendition/

R10k
09-24-2008, 09:49 AM
For $1000 I want each copy to shift with a titanium bra.

Is that all? Just imagine how awesome it'd be if instead you could have the same level of support everyone else gets for nothing. Yes, this amazing deal could be yours just by being in the wrong country.

In the dictionary, Adobe and generous should be the same word.

CHRiTTeR
09-24-2008, 11:47 AM
I love CS3. I dont know why they had to screw with it. This thing looks like a beta UI that never got the final touches.

Same reason why microsoft changed the office ui: not enough 'innovation/new features' so they give at a whole new shiny ui to give the illusion theres lots of new stuff going on so ppl will buy the new version

CHRiTTeR
09-24-2008, 11:55 AM
It is also almost certain that the "raytracer" in Photoshop will be very primitive compared to mental ray, VRAY or any other full-featured raytracer.

For graphics artists using Photoshop who think they might want to use the occasional 3D object in their scene, this is going be be a "cool as shit" new feature.


Cant wait to see how the internet is going to be flooded by 'cool-designs' with 'the new ultra-super-awesome-mega-cool photoshop 3D renderer' :argh:

combination
09-24-2008, 02:39 PM
Can someone confirm/re-confirm if I will have any issues activating and registering my European Adobe stuff if I buy the upgrade from toolfarm? I am really fed off paying day light robbery prices. On top of subsidizing illegal users, legit people get slammed with extra $ for being in Europe! The cheek!

Saurus
09-24-2008, 06:39 PM
hmmm...i wonder if sli makes any difference?

PointCounter
09-24-2008, 07:46 PM
Great news... I'm looking forward to the integration of the 3d tools in after effects and photoshop together...

vfx
09-24-2008, 10:18 PM
Yup I know a few people who order from the US rather than the UK due to the disgusting price difference - we should be able to charge more for work in that case.. but that puts us at a disdvantage...

anyways, love the pixel grid when zooming in. That really is impressive. Look forward to a demo :P

DDS
09-24-2008, 11:21 PM
For $1000 I want each copy to shift with a titanium bra.

for $1000 more you can buy a license of Zbrush+Silo, or modo with complete rendering capabilities!

philnolan3d
09-24-2008, 11:33 PM
Video of the new tabbed interface.

[/url]http://www.photoshopsupport.com/photoshop-cs4/videos/tabbed-windows-interface-cs4-video.html (http://www.photoshopsupport.com/photoshop-cs4/videos/tabbed-windows-interface-cs4-video.html)

Here's a whole site about it with a bunch of videos.

[url]http://www.photoshopuser.com/cs4/

(http://www.photoshopuser.com/cs4/)

cheebamonkey
09-25-2008, 01:34 AM
for $1000 more you can buy a license of Zbrush+Silo, or modo with complete rendering capabilities!



and? Comparing CS4 apps to that makes no sense.

ambient-whisper
09-25-2008, 01:40 AM
Same reason why microsoft changed the office ui: not enough 'innovation/new features' so they give at a whole new shiny ui to give the illusion theres lots of new stuff going on so ppl will buy the new version
actually they added some really nice stuff to office :). like when you select text you get an automatic context menu that fades in, giving you access to features faster. thats just one of the things. it allows you to have a minimalistic interface because all you really need make most documents is in that small menu.

i actually like the new UI that they added to office.

Koogle
09-25-2008, 01:47 AM
"anyways, love the pixel grid when zooming in."

really ? jeeez

personally I would have prefered a more direct UI widget control of adjusting document grid sizes!.. oh well whatever Photoshop rarely gets everything right(actually I make that sound like they have done at one point, I lie). I guess I will still be going into the preferences dialog! :banghead:

I'm still wondering why they haven't added back the 'pallete well' so you can throw in palletes that don't get used much but still have them easily accessible.. .. instead you get that friggin shit noob drop menu button to switch workspaces...gah.. i mean common adobe you idiots. .. heck even that same location where the pallete well used to be is still looking soooo underused..

why is every photoshop version released where some things get better yet so much else is still left behind and not improved, either that or improved in a completely retarded way only noobs would find satisfying.

has the pen and vectoring tools being improved? ie the workflow and un-intuitiveness of it all.. its crap... hmm hmmm

really I'm not that impressed with the sticky like keys.. sure its an improvement but really things could have been better and obviously it was only brought in to help with things rotating canvases but what about areas like for example: where you're painting with the brush(b) but want to use the eraser.. having to even press and hold another key to use the eraser(e) is just shit workflow imo, easily accessible modifier keys like ctrl,shift,alt while using the brush are far better to use to invoke something like the eraser, but you can't because they have already been assigned to other actions for the brush tool.. so where is the customizability on things like that? there is none...this is just another area for workflow improvement they just didn't bother with.

Let alone areas like being able to adjust the brush size intuitively like holding down [mmb] sliding left/right to decrease/increase size.. pfff common get with the program adobe.

And I almost laughed when I first saw the adjustment panel.. i mean it looks like a bunch of icons that could just have links to open up an icons corresponding dialog.. anyway its good to see they actually took the extra steps to at least reimplement the dialogs into the actual panels(thats more like it), and they are adjustment layers aswel so thatsgood (but if you open the adjustment layer will it open the adjustment panel or default to the floating dialog? :curious: ) .. anyway for me that will be a timesaver not having to dig open menus to select some of the most commonly accessed color correction dialogs. If I had my way I would hope they start iconizing and bringing in more older and commonly used tools like some of filters and make those show up within the panel layouts the same way as they've done with a lot of the color correction dialogs :arteest:

Really the only good thing about any of the UI changes is the TABS and i love tabbed UI's.. but are those mousewheel changable tabs though? cus nothing sucks more than having lots of documents open and not being able to see the title name in tabbed layout, its then just quicker to scroll through them intuitively its much quicker.. no probably not eh, bit like web browsers that finally get around to adding tabs, but none of the xtra useful control exists by default.

I also agree on the UI not looking so good.. from the screenshots of the panels, that darker grey with capitalized text.. meh.. and even the way they've removed the expandable dock that would hold other panel icons, I'd miss that seeing as how the alternative is now to having all the same panels squeezed onto existing layouts, or not in sight at all.. the thing that was shit about the expandable dock was it was a poor mans pallete well really, it took up valuable screenspace, when infact on most users screens they will find they have plenty of toolbar space in the very location this similar feature used to reside(top right).

The Flash Panels/configurator and the possibility of more addons and features to ease workflow, could end up being a really good, if anything it might spur on more 3rd party pluging development, PS seems to have a huge mountain of crapy decade old plugins, would be great to see some getting a new facelift with a better UI controls within a panel, nothing I can't stand more than floating dialogs that sit above the very image you're trying to make adjustments too, and even worse plugins that have to make there own GUI's take the image your working on, and then finally when you're finish come back to photoshop.. ridiculous although its been due to adobe, good to see they're finally doing something about it.

I have to wonder about some of these other improvements like transformable 'content aware scaling' I know complete novices will find this amazing to play around with but just how much configuration do you get when using it? I mean they've obviously left areas like the transform>warp custom.. where custom just means a getting a pathetic 16 point lattice, which is more useful than any of the other warp modes, but you'll soon find that its just not enough to really make professional adjustments without being hindered by fcking up(I mean feathering) the edges of the selection border.. really adobe was it sooo hard to add a few more toolbar options to adjust the number of lattice points(even low/mid/high would have been good) on a 'CUSTOM' tool? how many versions should we wait for it?

Really only few things I like about this release and its the GPU acceleration and what that enables ie draggable, and better zooming quality at all levels couldn't careless about the rotating personally :) i'm sure many photoshop users won't other than to spin around there document, I do wonder though can you make it snap to angles like 45, 90 etc? its good for tablet users and those who really get into painting I suppose.

As for Photoshop Extended.. i would normaly write it off as complete waste of money, I mean you get nothing more than useless half baked fluff.. implemented in the most bare minimum ways ever..but I did notice this screen..
http://www.photoshopuser.com/images/cs4learning/screens/3D_Lights.jpg

and I'm kinda wondering maybe this might actually be a good alternative that shity aging 'lighting effects' dialog thats burried in the filters menu(its surprisingly useful for certain works if you can be bothered to try battle with its crappy little preview window) so i'm kinda wondering if this lighting panel is finally the solution.. rendering the light on a transparent background, sort of like a fake volume on just the casting light(s) so you can keep the surrounding edge/background alpha values? i'll have to give the extended trial ago, but I mean they can't have made it anymore shit than the old one right? unless it only works when you have a 3d object on the layer? :curious:

erilaz
09-25-2008, 01:57 AM
and? Comparing CS4 apps to that makes no sense.

I think he was referring to the fact that Europe pays an extra $1000, and you could have spent that extra money on more software.

R10k
09-25-2008, 02:40 AM
Cant wait to see how the internet is going to be flooded by 'cool-designs' with 'the new ultra-super-awesome-mega-cool photoshop 3D renderer'

Indeed, I was thinking the same thing...

Can someone confirm/re-confirm if I will have any issues activating and registering my European Adobe stuff if I buy the upgrade from toolfarm?

I've heard there are no issues... but at the end of the day, you'll have to check with Adobe.

i actually like the new UI that they added to office.

Same. I upgraded simply because to me, it was a much nicer working environment.

why is every photoshop version released where some things get better yet so much else is still left behind and not improved

That's Adobe! Brilliant in some ways, way behind the eight-ball in others.

heavyness
09-25-2008, 03:17 AM
about the office UI..

my mom and mother in law HATE the new office ui [they can't find the Save button... not kidding]. but i find people who use the basic shortcuts [ctrl s, c, v...] and use other design apps love the office ui.

i guess there will be growing pains at first, but my mom is already warming up to it.

DuttyFoot
09-25-2008, 05:28 AM
i would love to see the demo of them painting a 3d model ps4, what they have on the site dosen't tell me anything. showing a decal put on a 3d car thats already painted dosen't prove anything.

Lone Deranger
09-25-2008, 05:47 AM
Modus Operandi Adobe/AutoDesk: Why fix everything in one go and charge for it once, when you can stretch it out for many versions and charge for it numerous times.

why is every photoshop version released where some things get better yet so much else is still left behind and not improved, either that or improved in a completely retarded way only noobs would find satisfying.

R10k
09-25-2008, 06:22 AM
The interesting thing about all of this is, while Photoshop is the professional's choice for 2D work, it'll soon be the amateurs choice for 3D work :P

mim-Armand
09-25-2008, 06:40 AM
... and we're also F I N A L L Y able to rotate the canvas! YAY!
...
weoooow! it's really good news they accepted to do it atlast! :cool:

Kabab
09-25-2008, 06:42 AM
The painting is to little to late its just a token effort..

What would you rather paint with Mudbox 2009 with all your content rendering how it would on target, with really sweet painting tech from studiotools.

Or some half ass painting implementation.

ambient-whisper
09-25-2008, 07:22 AM
im almost thinking that a cheaper alternative would be to get photoshop for 2d, and if an illustrator needs 3d, they could get something like 3d coat and texture in there. then export out to ps or something like truespace. they all work, are easy to use and dont cost much.

for illustrators, or artists working in advertizement that could be a somewhat decent option i guess, especially when they dont feel like using a full blown 3d package.

erik_j
09-25-2008, 11:40 AM
finally. now I may not continue sacking ps for a one man developed painting app for $50 merely for the feature of canvas aa when doing line art. (or maybe I will)

philnolan3d
09-25-2008, 12:22 PM
I'm actually annoyed about this update a little bit suddenly. When I heard you will be able to rotate the canvas I thought "Finally, the guides will stay still and I can rotate the canvas so I can use the guide at an angle." Nope I just saw in a video, the guides follow along with it when it rotates. The guy in the video said that like it's a good thing. I guess in some cases it is, but it would be nice if you could turn that off.

MasonDoran
09-25-2008, 04:16 PM
hah....You could fly from London to NYC for a day trip, for less then $1000 and buy photoshop.

Skyraider3D
09-25-2008, 04:42 PM
All nice and well, but did they fix the feathering system? :hmm:

mustique
09-25-2008, 04:43 PM
hah....You could fly from London to NYC for a day trip, for less then $1000 and buy photoshop.

True as long as you don't fly with British Airways. :D

cTennant
09-26-2008, 05:42 AM
I really like hearing about GPU accelerated filters with Pixel Bender. Boy this should be exciting

LukeZ
09-26-2008, 10:58 AM
.....sweet :]

ThomasMahler
09-26-2008, 12:52 PM
There are still a couple of 'basic' things I'd like to see implemented:

1) Why is the Liquify Filter still a 'filter'? It could be part of the Nudge Tools, it's so useful, yet, Photoshop has to **** around with the memory and you always have to load that setup if you wanna move things around a bit. This should be integrated on a tool level.

2) Selections could need a better visualization. The running ant thing has been there since the first Mac OS was invented. Now we have so much more power, so show me Feathering and shit in realtime, let me adjust it in realtime and show me the results in realtime.

3) In the end, I'd really, really like Photoshop to become more of a nodebased system. The layer editor has been designed for simple setups and for that, it works well. But every time I have to open a .psd from another artist, it's just a riddle of how the hell he organized the image, cause I have no idea and it's tough to figure it out.

So, if I look at Fusion and its node based system (or any other good node based compositing app), it's so much clearer, so much more logical and easier to read. This node has this sorta information and is connected to this node, which then feeds into this node, etc. instead of using layers, layer folders, adjustment layers and layer masks and shit.

biliousfrog
09-26-2008, 01:32 PM
Can someone confirm/re-confirm if I will have any issues activating and registering my European Adobe stuff if I buy the upgrade from toolfarm? I am really fed off paying day light robbery prices. On top of subsidizing illegal users, legit people get slammed with extra $ for being in Europe! The cheek!

When I asked Adobe about it several months ago, they said that they didn't support it. It doesn't mean that it isn't possible, in just the same way that installing a cracked version is possible but Adobe don't support it.

I remember a lot of people saying that they bought upgrades from the states and they install without any problems but, according to the guy I spoke to at Adobe, they won't accept it as a proper upgrade and won't give any support unless you register it to an address in the country that it was bought. If you ever get investigated by the BSA, the upgrade will not be treated as a valid licence.

So, yes you can buy the upgrade from the states and yes you can install it but it won't be treated as a valid licence...but you'll probably get treated better if caught than someone that downloaded it illegally.

R10k
09-26-2008, 02:06 PM
It's that kind of attitude which has kept me from buying into any Adobe software. Corel are also trying to go down that road, and as much as I enjoy using PhotoImpact as a Photoshop replacement, I'll happily ditch it the instant I have to submit to pointless region based price hikes.

This node has this sorta information and is connected to this node, which then feeds into this node, etc. instead of using layers, layer folders, adjustment layers and layer masks and shit.

Yes, but if you change the way Photoshop works, what will all the hapless Photoshop junkie designers out there do? :p

BradT
09-26-2008, 03:28 PM
Does anyone know if they've changed their activation/anti-piracy issues since CS2? This release interests me, but I had a really bad experience dealing with adobe after a coworker's hard-drive crashed. Nothing is more infuriating than being accused of piracy when you've been a loyal and paying customer for 11 years. I eventually got it worked out, and recieved an apology, but only after several days of lost productivity and having to escalate the issue way up the chain. Since then, I've refrained from upgrading and have been actively investigating alternative options. I'd happily upgrade if I hear they've fixed their activation issues though, as several features in this new release seem useful.

Cometsoft
09-26-2008, 03:47 PM
I think it's the same.

You can have two copies activated, if you want to move to another computer you have to de-activate a copy. I've never had any problems with Adobe under those conditions.

At least the free trials are fully functional and can carry you over bureaucratic issues until things get sorted out.

combination
09-27-2008, 05:06 AM
When I asked Adobe about it several months ago, they said that they didn't support it. It doesn't mean that it isn't possible, in just the same way that installing a cracked version is possible but Adobe don't support it.

I remember a lot of people saying that they bought upgrades from the states and they install without any problems but, according to the guy I spoke to at Adobe, they won't accept it as a proper upgrade and won't give any support unless you register it to an address in the country that it was bought. If you ever get investigated by the BSA, the upgrade will not be treated as a valid licence.

So, yes you can buy the upgrade from the states and yes you can install it but it won't be treated as a valid licence...but you'll probably get treated better if caught than someone that downloaded it illegally.

Well I asked Toolfarm few weeks ago and they said it's fully legal but you just won't get support if you have any tech problems.

It doesn't mean that it isn't possible, in just the same way that installing a cracked version is possible but Adobe don't support it.

A cracked version does not get activated by Adobe directly or get registered by Adobe with illegal serial numbers. Toolfarm purchased software gets activated by Adobe and you register it with them with the fully legal serial numbers that you possess. So I don't think buying from toolfarm is comparable even in the slightest with pirated software. The guy you spoke to at Adobe was probably doing his best to serve his masters and scare you. That said what you said could be the real truth. I will phone Adobe on Monday and get to the bottom of this crap from them.

What if I register the software in my name but use the address of my sister in USA? Say I lived with my sister in USA bought the software and then moved to Europe? What happens then? What if my sister buys it as a Christmas present for me?

MasonDoran
09-27-2008, 04:02 PM
bah....i have been using Adobe Photoshop before it was even made for the PC....never did i need support from Adobe, and I cannot see why people would.

artfoundry
09-28-2008, 09:21 PM
Was looking at the features listed on Adobe's site, saw this one, and thought it sounded pretty cool. Then a thought quickly occurred to me: "hmmm, I wonder what industry will be taking advantage of this feature the most....lol" :p

ambient-whisper
09-28-2008, 09:45 PM
3) In the end, I'd really, really like Photoshop to become more of a nodebased system. The layer editor has been designed for simple setups and for that, it works well. But every time I have to open a .psd from another artist, it's just a riddle of how the hell he organized the image, cause I have no idea and it's tough to figure it out.


the layer system is way easier to figure out than if you had a node system for this.

if you've ever used houdini and seen some of the production tds networks you would know.

going through layers and turning them on and off is much simpler than going through a network that has connection comming and going in all different directions. or having expressions fed from one channel to the next.

obviously we dont need anything too complex in photoshop, but even though id love to see PS become more node based, i have to wonder if leaving it the way it is wouldnt be even better. why try to fix what works well.

jeremybirn
09-28-2008, 10:19 PM
1) Why is the Liquify Filter still a 'filter'? It could be part of the Nudge Tools, it's so useful, yet, Photoshop has to **** around with the memory and you always have to load that setup if you wanna move things around a bit. This should be integrated on a tool level.
Agreed. Morphing/warping a la Elastic Reality or Shake would be very useful every time I straighten something out or try to make two things fit together.

2) Selections could need a better visualization. The running ant thing has been there since the first Mac OS was invented. Now we have so much more power, so show me Feathering and shit in realtime, let me adjust it in realtime and show me the results in realtime.
That control at the bottom of the toolbar switches between a colored mask that shows feathering and the dotted lines, you can also view the mask as by itself in black and white... I can see having a selection tool like Shake's rotoshapes that had a main outline plus an edge outline, each with editable points and curves, that would be handy.

3) In the end, I'd really, really like Photoshop to become more of a nodebased system. The layer editor has been designed for simple setups and for that, it works well. But every time I have to open a .psd from another artist, it's just a riddle of how the hell he organized the image, cause I have no idea and it's tough to figure it out.
I'd like that too. But, whether a comp is node-based or layer-based, either way it's possible to make something well organized and well documented, or else to make confusing garbage that's hard to debug, depending on how you work.

Photoshop makes files harder to debug because it doesn't have a one-click function to solo each layer (the way you can view each node in Shake). That makes it harder to look through them all or trace where some problem is coming in. I find myself pressing hotkeys for filter>extract all the time, just because it pops up a new window with a copy of the current layer in it, without the blending modes and modifiers and other layers visible, etc.

-jeremy

Mobious
09-28-2008, 11:17 PM
I find myself pressing hotkeys for filter>extract all the time, just because it pops up a new window with a copy of the current layer in it, without the blending modes and modifiers and other layers visible, etc.

-jeremy

You can also just hold Alt and click the layer's visibility icon. That wont disable any of the layer attributes, but it is a quick way to isolate the layer to see whats on it or make quick modifications. Not a very clean solution though, I agree.



Overall I'm becoming more impressed after seeing more and more demonstration videos. I cant wait to take it for a spin.

evanfotis
09-30-2008, 09:50 AM
Just the rotation alone is worth it!
And the smart resizing too is sooo useful.
I didn't see any option where one can mask the areas of interest so PS leaves them intact. In adobe's keynote they mention that PS makes its own calculations (not very handy)

But on another note, did you see the system requirements for CS4?
Minimum 2GH&2GB ram..And 23GB space (master collection), is this not ridiculous?
In a 2 year old pc/notebook, cs4 will be crawling..

iatriki
09-30-2008, 01:50 PM
Just the rotation alone is worth it!
And the smart resizing too is sooo useful.
I didn't see any option where one can mask the areas of interest so PS leaves them intact. In adobe's keynote they mention that PS makes its own calculations (not very handy)

But on another note, did you see the system requirements for CS4?
Minimum 2GH&2GB ram..And 23GB space (master collection), is this not ridiculous?
In a 2 year old pc/notebook, cs4 will be crawling..

I don't know where you got your info from, but here is what it says on adobe website about PS CS4's requirements. There's no minimum 2GB RAM...it's just 512MB. Maybe there could be a problem if you don't have a gfx card that suports shader model 3...and then you wouldn't be able to see some 3d stuff


1.8GHz or faster processor
Microsoft® Windows® XP with Service Pack 2 (Service Pack 3 recommended) or Windows Vista® Home Premium, Business, Ultimate, or Enterprise with Service Pack 1 (certified for 32-bit Windows XP and 32-bit and 64-bit Windows Vista)
512MB of RAM (1GB recommended)
1GB of available hard-disk space for installation; additional free space required during installation (cannot install on flash-based storage devices)
1,024x768 display (1,280x800 recommended) with 16-bit video card
Some GPU-accelerated features require graphics support for Shader Model 3.0 and OpenGL 2.0
DVD-ROM drive
QuickTime 7.2 software required for multimedia features
Broadband Internet connection required for online services*

evanfotis
09-30-2008, 02:10 PM
From the horses mouth:
http://store.adobe.com/store/en_us/popup/software/creativesuite/mastercollection4/systemreqs.html

evanfotis
09-30-2008, 02:13 PM
I want the option to connect canvas rotation to physical rotation of the tablet.
get a cintiq then ... lol

CIM
09-30-2008, 08:27 PM
From the horses mouth:
http://store.adobe.com/store/en_us/popup/software/creativesuite/mastercollection4/systemreqs.html

If you can afford the Master Collection, you can afford a $400 store bought desktop.

evanfotis
10-01-2008, 09:58 AM
If you can afford the Master Collection, you can afford a $400 store bought desktop.
Heh.. unfortunately its not as simple as that, nor could a $400 box replace an older yet well set up system..

DuttyFoot
10-01-2008, 02:46 PM
i dont even know if i am going to update to cs4. about a month ago i picked up the cs3 production version.

ldiaz
10-02-2008, 09:39 PM
Where can I see a video or something showing Cnavas Rotation as a Feature I browsed around and saw nothing of that.

philnolan3d
10-03-2008, 12:29 AM
This video shows it. The links underneath are all different videos about PS CS4.
http://www.photoshopuser.com/?page=cs4/videos&video=rc_gueimprovment

ldiaz
10-03-2008, 06:57 AM
This video shows it. The links underneath are all different videos about PS CS4.
http://www.photoshopuser.com/?page=cs4/videos&video=rc_gueimprovment

Hey Phil,
I appreciate the link.

WOW! We've all been asking for this.
CS4 will be a favorite again for most of us artists.

halo
10-03-2008, 12:54 PM
According to the Australian store,
Adobe Production Premium Suite CS4 is $2,359.00 ($1,978.00 US)

According to the United States store,
Adobe Production Premium Suite CS4 is $2,026.00 ($1,699.00 US)

According to the United Kingdom store,
Adobe Production Premium Suite CS4 is £1655.58 ($3,072.00 US)

These are at current exchange rates anyway.

Keep in mind it's less if you order the download version.

It looks like the UK gets screwed again.

.

As usual.

That's why on the last round we bought our upgrades in the US, and installed them in the UK. If you don't have a connection in the US who will send you your software, or can't find a shop that won't break the embargo, then try ebay, then as a last resort get yourself a US po box service.

I think it worked out that it was buy one, get one free when we did it. Registered online, no problems.

The joke of it is that even if you download it direct from adobe, the software is the US version coming off of US servers.

CIM
10-06-2008, 08:52 PM
About another week to go.

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