How to model mouth of monkey

[TheLegend299]

Only one option there really you gotta go for hypernurbs it'll give you a much better result in stills and in animation

[ThirdEye]

follow this mesh
http://www.serpentsheart.com/Images/bonobo_sneer.jpg

[pit]

You only want to do the mouth?!
Well - poly by poly and hypernurb is my advice.
What about inner mouth, teeth and tounge?

[Crispie]

No, I also want to make the inner mouth, but im wondering what's the best way to do that. Should I just folow the curvature of the outside, inside the mouth?
And I thought poly by poly would be best, but I was wondering how to make the overlap at the lips.
I'd better get started then! This is my second head, not counting the sphere's with marble eyes on top!! :)
I'll post a new picture when I made a start at it!
Tnxs for the replies!

Greets, Chris!

[Crispie]

http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/WIP1.jpg
http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/WIP2.jpg


Ok guys, heres my first WIP.
Comments please, I need to know if i'm on a good start!??!

Greeting, Chris!!

[smoke]

Looks like a good start

[pit]

You need at least one more loop around the lips - the area looks very sharp edged. Other than that you´re up to a good start!

[Crispie]

http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/WIP3.jpg
http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/WIP4.jpg

Ok, here are two more Wips, I'm going to delete most of the sphere later, but I used it to make the part in between the mouth, and the head. Also needs a lot of work around the eyes, and I still have to make the extra loop around the lips. That are the next things I'm going to do after this.
Tnxs for all your tips again, and please keep them coming! Your help is very valuable to make this monkey a succes!!

Greetings, Chris

[Crispie]

Here are some more adjustments made. I still have to attach the ears to the head. And I dont like the form of the part were the nostrills are. It should be rounder, but i'm working on that. I would love to hear what you think of it this far?!

Greetings, Chris!!!

http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/WIP5.jpg

[JIII]

great model dude. lots of character.

[TheLegend299]

Thats lookin pretty good so far but I think you need to add more detail onto the ears they don't quite fit at the moment good work.

[Kirl]

Hey there Cris, a fellow .nl-er... :buttrock:

I think the edge between the mouth part and the head should be somewhat sharper. And some more detail to the ears...

Looking good...! :thumbsup:

[Crispie]

Hi everyone, here's another WIP, showing the ears connected to the head. I also increased the sharpness of the connection of the mouth with the head, just under the eyes. I'm now gonna work on the area around the eyes. Thanks for all your help!! It really encourages me to keep going and improve things on this monkey head. Please keep telling me if there's anything that you think I should/could do better!!

http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/WIP6.jpg

There's also a little problem inside the ears. I get strange "artefacts". I'm wondering if its a problem in my model, or that it has to do with my lighting!?!? See for yourself:

http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/ear.jpg
http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/ear-wire.jpg


Greetings, Chris!!!

[pit]

There's also a little problem inside the ears. I get strange "artefacts". I'm wondering if its a problem in my model, or that it has to do with my lighting!?!?


Reverse the surface normals for the polys in the ear. Just select the polys where the normals point inward and go -> Structure-> reverse normals

Cheers

[Crispie]

Thank you for your help, but I already tried that..... All the normals on the head are alligned, and I checked those in the ear particularly to see if the were all pointing outwards, and the do

Greetings, Chris!

[Crispie]

I found out what caused the weird black smudge inside the ear, it was a problem with the lighting.
Here's another WIP + Wire of poly mesh, which I optimized for attaching the back of the head. There are still 2 or 3 tri's, but I dont think that is a problem??

I also made the eyes a little closer to each other, and the ears somewhat rounder.

Comments please?

http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/WIP8.jpg http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/WIP7.jpg

Greetings, Chris!!

[Kirl]

It's defenatly shaping up nicely...!

Some crits:

Try to make the edge of the mouth part equally sharp along the whole edge.

And the corners of the actual mouth are sticking out slightly.


Apart from those minor issues, I think it's a very nice character..! :thumbsup:


BTW triangles are nothing to worry about, as long as you don't see them... :)

[Crispie]

Tnxs for you comment Kirl!!

I've now finished the rough shape of the head, its all closed up at the back now (I made all the renders just right, so that you couldn't see the large gaping hole in the back of his head, ain't I a sneaky little #@$%!!)
To show the complete (rough) shape of the head, I made a little animated Gif of it.
Now there's still a lot of fine tuning to do at the head, and I'm gonna start with the mouth, like Kirl said, because he is absolutely right about that, and it needs to be looked at.

Greeting, Chris!!

http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/AapAnimation2.gif

[Thowra]

Hey Chris!

Great job! He is searching for his banana. Who found him?

Cheers:beer: Jeroen.

[Crispie]

Hi all!!

Here are two more Wips, one showing the full head, and the shoulders.
The other showing the same model, but with hair on it. It's far from the final hair, just a technology test, to see how it may look!

Greetings, Chris!

http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/WIP10.jpg
http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/WIP11.jpg

[Kirl]

Good start on the hair...! How did you go about making it?

Naturally the transitions from hair to skin should be smoothed out a bit, but I trust you knew that already... :)

However, I would first completely finish the model before 'masking' the imperfections with the real eye candy stuff... Defenatly no shame in masking stuff, but after the initial 'wow' has worn off, those things become obvious (corners of the mouth).

Looking really good though...! :thumbsup:

[Crispie]

Hi Kirl,

Youre completely right on the transition thing. It sucks, and I have to work in more than one layer of hair, so I can make a smoother transition from no hair, to full hair. I was also not planning to leave the head as it is, I'm still going to adjust it and make it better (those pesky corners of the mouth). Just wanted to look how it would be with some nice fur on it! I'll just go back one saved file, (where theres no hair added yet) and keep going from there...

But thank you for comments! They're more than welcome!


Greets, Chris!!

[Crispie]

Just another WIP. I wanted to do something else than the head, so I made a rough start with the body. Arms still need a lot of work, but what about the length, do you think it is allright?

Greets, Chris!!

http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/WIP12.jpg

[flingster]

nice monkey...keep it up.
:thumbsup:

[Kirl]

Nice, the length seems alright only I think the upper arm should be somewhat longer and the fore arm a bit shorter...

Basically you can just select the points at the elbow on both sides and scale up over the X. Or whatever axis his arms are over.

And meaby make the connection between arms and body a bit softer. The neck seems a bit square also.

Good start on the body though... ! :thumbsup:

[Crispie]

At last a new WIP. Been busy for a while, but now I'm continuing making this monkey model for a short animation.
Still needs lot of work on the body, the proportions and all that. Main purpose of this stage of the model was to make a complete mesh. Now I can start moving points, and cutting and that sort of business. Please let me know what you think!

Greets, Chris!

http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/WIP13.jpg

[Crispie]

Hi all!

And here is my latest progress in the model, changed the legs a lot. Still needs work on the hands and feet now. C&C please!

Greets, Chris!!

http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/WIP16.jpg

[flingster]

like it coming along nicely...arm proportions seem off slightly...but then i suppose they has long arms...latest image certainly better than image above...so worth the extra effort bud....maybe tweak the hand/feet a little (fingers/toes)...and change of a side view?

reminds me of a computer game...kinda mini donkey kong...heh heh.

[Crispie]

What's a Monkey without nipples?? Well???
That's right, I felt sorry for the little fella, so I provided him with some nipples, a belly button, and I did some improvement on the belly, foreside of shoulders and the profile of his chest.
I could still use a lot of C&C's please!

Greetings, Chris!!


http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/WIP17.jpg
http://home.wanadoo.nl/christian.peters/WIP18.jpg

[flingster]

monkey nipples are good....:shrug:

maybe a little thickness to the shoulder.:shrug:

[pit]

Hi Crispie -
I see a couple of flaws in your mesh which cause trouble now - and later on when deformed by bones.
First off: you have to pay attention to anatomy and muscle flow even if it´s a toon character. The shoulder area will not perform well - you should let the polys flow as indicated on my paintover.
You have a lot of tris in the mesh and it shows when subdivided - you can get rid of some of them by creating 4 point triangles. You seem to have created a lot of polys in the neck area?! Why? Later you try to reduce them anyway.
When modeling try to think ahead in term of polycount and flow. Learn about edge loops and how to model for animation (more geometry at the joints for example).
Cheers
pit

[Crispie]

Thanks a lot for all the good tips everybody! It helps a lot!!
And pit, tnxs for the superb reference pic you made, it will help me a lot. I hope you don't mind me asking some more on optimizing the mesh. I was planning to first complete the form, and then to optimize it, in terms of eliminating the tri's as much as possible, and arranging them conform the anatomy. But I will need a lot of help on that, since I really don't know how to do that. But I'm sure with the help of this forum, and you guys I can manage it!

Tnxs again!

Greets, Chris!!

[Crispie]

Hi Pit (or anybody else who knows about edge loop technique)

I really like the idea of using the "edge loop" technique, but I am wondering if it is still a possibility to use it in my model. And can you tell me what's the best way to aply it without making the whole model over again. I was thinking about "project spline" or something like that, to make a sort of new wire frame, on top of the old model, built out of spline, and then build a nwe mesh using these guide lines.
Or is there an easier way, because the above seems a lot of work to me.....not that I'm lazy off course....but you know...well.....

Greetings, Chris!!

[flingster]

some useful tips about edge loops at the end of these two links.
http://www.izware.com/news/indexa446.html
http://maxrovat.sns.hu/subdiv/subdivmodeling.htm

that said they tend to focus on the head topology rather than the body...i would be interested to see any links people have to good practice when it comes to body topology and edge loops? if any exist.:shrug:

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