Something's just not right with her hair.

[lios]

Hi,



Lovely face you have made, but the hair does indeed seems to be somewhat of. I do not really get the hole hair layer over layer thing. they feel like there round now, when I think they should be more flat...

But that's all I see,

other tips I can think of are to put the picture in the mirror to see if it is still "correct" some mistakes are more clear that way.

also, it hard to imagine the hair do from up frond. Might be handy to draw that as well to get a reference on where things start from the side.

OW and the first trand of hair could be longer and drapted behind her ear, if the hair is in one length, it migth make it les static.

Good luck, lios

[TrenchcoatPixie]

Hmm, I think you're right--the problem is structural. I know I had a very clear picture in my head of what I wanted her hairstyle to do when I sketched it, but I think I must have gotten a little overzealous and confused myself.

I tried simplifying it and giving it a bit more weight - I think it looks better now. Thank you so much. =D

So long as I'm still here, any other critique would be more than welcome! I'm not really satisfied with what I've roughed in for her mouth, either. And of course if I've done anything else bone-achingly stupid that I can't see right now, I would appreciate being saved from myself. Thanks!

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a293/Monteef/roslyn4.jpg

[CybrGfx]

Horrid lighting. You've highlighted every little bit you worked on, without even looking at the parts next to it... It's called Consistency, and it will drag an image into the dirt faster than you can say, "what's wrong?"

Pick a lighting direction and STICK WITH IT!
If you don't know what direction your lighting is coming from, how on earth do you expect the viewer to???

As for the hair, It looks fine in back. It's the weird sections above her ear, behind the bangs that looks wonky.
Look at the FORM of the entire hair on the skull. Then look at the SHAPES that make up the form. The section of bangs hanging (I like that piece!) is okay, although the piece on the face by the ears would be falling forward with her head at that angle...

One of the BEST Hair tutorials is right here (http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=3174) at CGS, I suggest you read and study it.

Your overall rough of this is pretty good. Clean up that lighting and you might find this image better than you think.

~C

[TrenchcoatPixie]

Yay! Thank you for the critique!

My struggle with the lighting is that I set out intending to make the lighting very soft, and resist my (dismayingly usual) impulse to make strong, dramatic shadows...but you're right, it's wound up with too much highlighting, all over the place, so that her face looks more like an embossed carving of a face than the side of a human skull. I do have a light direction in mind, but...clearly I've failed to express that. I will remind myself that heads are round and return when perhaps I have better communicated that notion.

You're right, the hair by her face still isn't right, and if I start detailing it like this it's going to look way too heavy to be coming from the part of her head it's supposed to be coming from. I'll mess with it and see what I come up with. Thank you for the link to the tutorial--unfortunately, I've read it about a dozen times! I'm sure I'd benefit from more prostration time at Linda Bergkvist's altar.

Edit: Er, by 'the hair by her face,' I meant the hair behind her bangs over her ear, not the actual hair by her face.

[CybrGfx]

Well, here's a perfect opportunity to prostrate yourself at Linda's altar!

I don't see any reason why you can't render the Embossed Lady's hair with the method Linda demonstrates. You have the basic shape, and the majority of the sub-shapes (that one head section above the ears is problematic...), and who knows? You might find it helps solve those depth and shape issues that you're fighting...

I mean, c'mon. Whatta ya got to lose? ;)
(*Adopts stern voice ~ "Alright, Trenchcoat. Let's get that hair into shape before we tackle those facial depths. It's either that or you paint a brown bag over her entire head. And make sure that hair is on a separate layer from the face, got it?" End of stern voice)

~C

[TrenchcoatPixie]

I admonished myself for acting like I knew better than Ms. Bergkvist, and redrew the character's hair from the ground up. Please excuse the poorly lit/rendered wisps and tendrils; I just slapped them into another layer to get an idea for how the hairstyle would look when I got to detailing it.

Actually drawing the hair properly has really thrown the need for facial depth into relief. I'll start working on that next (unless I've proven to be inadequately penitent, in which case, back to the hair!).

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a293/Monteef/roslyn5.jpg

[mehran]

well you are getting the basics for the hair laid down right.
now all you need to do is get in and start painting the hair (group of hair)strands.
There are alot of tutorials out there for that so just google them.

[TrenchcoatPixie]

Thanks--I don't intend to start detailing the hair until I'm ready to start detailing everything, though, and her face still needs a lot of work.

[CybrGfx]

Good changes. Looks like hair now, not plastic paste on pieces...
So okay, wipe off all that makeup and the fake highlighting, and get your basic depth values established, based upon your light source.

Look as the shadows as shapes. Same with the highlights. This will help prevent inconsistent highlights. Your shadow and highlight shapes should all pretty much fall consistently on their sides of the canvas.

Also, time to put the dress back on the hanger. Draw out her neck and shoulder shape, then dress it. (Yes, the neck area needs some work...I'm being subtle here.)
Your anatomy needs adjustment. The ear is too small, too low, and oddly angled, and the profile looks a bit off in the lower chin area, like her jaw is jutting out...You may want to tilt the head perpendicular to check it...
Looking much better. I think you'll be fine, now that you're getting serious about it.

~C

[TrenchcoatPixie]

Sooo, one paintover later...

I spent some time working on the values, sat back, and decided that I hated it because it didn't have any delicacy left. So then I decided to see if I could get the delicacy back by introducing a more varied palette. The whole picture has a very different feel now, but I...think I like it? I'd love some corrections/feedback.

Also, dammit all, that anatomy critique so wasn't there when I checked this thread a few hours ago. I'll get those changes in for the next update. XD The neck and shoulder thing I definitely see; her neck must be about nine inches long the way I have it now.

(Edit: if you notice any anatomy changes between the last update and this one, it's because until now, I was working on our terrible widescreen laptop, and when I finally got the file on my actual monitor, it looked bizarrely tall, so I shortened it by about a hundred pixels. It may be I've worsened the anatomy issues now, but man, that was freaking me out.)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a293/Monteef/ros1.jpg

[CybrGfx]

Much more delicate, but the evil highlights are starting to arise like the living dead...You are showing a very strong light striking her clothing from in front and to the left of the shoulder, but you STILL SHOW A BACKLIGHTING ONLY around the clothing! GAH!

Stop it. STOP HIGHLIGHING ANYTHING until you FIRMLY establish a damn light source! Her hair is lit from above, and you have some mini-spotlight above and to the left of her eye that is illuminating her eye and cheek...While you may have more than one light source, your shadows and highlights are STILL not corresponding to a mere one or two light sources, and your values are bad. The shadows on the RH side of her face look black and dirt, as well as running down the front of her face like someone dragged a paint roller over her.

Make a new layer, and paint a big damn bright yellow spot on it to indicate the direction of your main Light Source. Draw 3 directional arrows pointing in the direction the light is shining. And then look at it before you paint any highlights or shadows, orienting them to that light source. Perhaps this will get your mind to truly focus on how you are illuminating your subject.

Your values are going to make or break this piece, and every piece you create for the rest of your life. More important than hair, or even antomy, is the ability to accurately render light and dark. The ONLY more important skill is the ability to think about what you create.

You can do this. Take some time to seriously look at and study this image, and make solid foundational decisions about how you are going to light it. Then consistently do so.

~C

[TrenchcoatPixie]

<Bursts into tears>

Okay, not really.

But now I'm struggling to understand what's gone wrong. Not with the shadows or values on the right side of her face--they do look dirty and unnatural (though I'm not quite sure what to do with them other than lightening them--and now I'm scared to highlight!--or making them warmer, but I feel like that would most likely just make the more blue/grey shadows elsewhere look inconsistent). But, okay--the light source I'm imagining is a soft, rosy light from above, forward (towards us, I mean) and just to the left. And the light in the picture looks to me to be coming from (er, more or less) above, forward, and to the left. I'm not questioning if you're right--I'm sure that you are--I'm just having a hard time seeing the problem, and what I need to do to fix it.

Maybe I just need to walk away from it for a couple days to restore my ability to detect the glaringly obvious.

I really appreciate you being so patient with me. I know I would have given up on me by now. XD

[CybrGfx]

If you didn't show promise, or had an ego exceeding your skill level, I would have too... ;)

Okay, here is another puzzle piece to get you to think, to see what you are creating.

Back this babe down to almost nothing, and pretend we have a can of rose-colored paint, above and slightly to the right of her.
We dump it on her. How do you think that paint is going to flow?
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/4733/portraitexperiment2alk1.jpg

That is your main light source. Now this gal isn't in a cave, or on a stage, with just one rosy Kleig light beaming down on her, she's also lit by ambient lighting. That is why you can see folds and wrinkles and features without shining lights on people all the time. I took down the saturation to get you to think about that ambient lighting. That should not be bright. That should simply be flesh colored, with a darker tone for the folds of the eyelids, the curve of the nostrils, the cheek creast around the mouth...

You have a terribly yellow-blue palette for a rosy portrait. You may want to desaturate things a bit until you get your base tones a bit better established. And yes, I know you didn't mean Pepto-Bismol rosy. But it gets your attention, don't it? :D

Don't paint on this for a couple of days. Hell, don't even think about it. Go paint some goofy looking kitties playing in the autumn leaves, values be damned, have fun. But when you come back to this, think about the lighting and start from a fresh skintone base.
And don't use blues for skin shadows. Use browns.

~C

[TrenchcoatPixie]

If you didn't show promise, or had an ego exceeding your skill level, I would have too... ;)
Hey, hearing 'you have promise' from someone who clearly knows their stuff is all the ego gratification I need. Besides, how am I ever going to earn a truly monstrous ego if I don't make myself improve?

Thanks so much for the paintover--something went "ohhh" in my head. I'm going to put it aside for now and probably start painting again from the sketch when I get back. I think I've spent more energy trying to fix my mistakes, but still trying to preserve what I liked the first time!!--which has just compounded the original mistakes, than I have just eyeing my original sketch critically.

[TrenchcoatPixie]

Well, taking a couple days off turned into...a bit longer than that due to the ill-advised purchase of Medieval: Total War, but I went back to this and finished it before I totally lost interest. I'll take my lesson in "think about your lighting before you start to paint, stupid" on to future projects.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a293/Monteef/rossmaller.jpg

[CybrGfx]

I REALLY like the colors in the collar. She looks like she is wearing one of those iridescent Mandarin Sheath dresses.

All in all, I think you did a wonderful job of salvaging this work.
You get a gold star for sticking with it and finishing it, rather than just abandoning it. http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/star.gif
You also get a gold star for learning the VERY important lesson of "think about your lighting before you start to paint." http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/star.gif

While you may have been stupid this time, I think we've succeeded in beating the stupid out of you as far as random mystery lighting goes...http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/beatup.gif

Good work, Trenchcoat. http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/nod.gif

~C

[TrenchcoatPixie]

<Happy glow>

I've learned a lot from you in this thread. Thanks for applying the hammer to the noggin. :)

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