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osxrules
09-13-2008, 04:07 PM
It's becoming increasingly obvious that Shake in whatever form has no future in the hands of its current owner. Sad as it seems, there's been nothing for about 3 years now (4.1 really wasn't anything major).

The old versions of Nuke had a really cumbersome interface but Nuke 5 is a big step forward and the interface can be setup almost exactly like Shake's.

It still has differences but they are much easier to look past now:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/945ef2315f.jpg

It has so many nice features. I need to test out a lot more and there are already some irritations but I'm slowly coming round to finishing up with Shake and moving on. It almost feels now like I'd be moving on to Shake 5 anyway - maybe there's a reason why they numbered it Nuke 5.

It is a bit more expensive at around 1800 vs 450 but Shake is only that price because it's EOL. Otherwise, it would probably be around the same.

Trial versions for all systems can be downloaded from the Foundry's website:

http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/pkg_downloads.aspx?ui=CBC2593A-2C9F-4EF9-84BE-C198B0171453

If anyone has been using both and can offer opinions, it would be appreciated.

ediris
09-13-2008, 10:18 PM
HI,
If you use OPENEXR, you want to have control over your render pases or you want to do film work than that is your tool otherwise they have an accesible price range for what the software can do.Otherwise dont bother just keep your shake copy, still there is plenty of work done in Shake.
Dont think twice before purchasing it. The thing is that you have to check on the price a little bit since i donot know if you have to pay for render licenses and yearly fee.

nrgy
09-15-2008, 04:42 AM
Those that think the old interface was horrible tend to have not really used it, it was actually quiet powerfull compared to the new one.

Aneks
09-16-2008, 04:00 AM
yeah but you can still get v5 to behave like 4.x with a bit of preference tweaks

kind of a MASSIVE indictment that we are using the Shake forum to discuss Nuke UI things huh !!

Ah well...

nrgy
09-16-2008, 04:34 AM
yeah but you can still get v5 to behave like 4.x with a bit of preference tweaks

kind of a MASSIVE indictment that we are using the Shake forum to discuss Nuke UI things huh !!

Ah well...

Eh I wouldn't go so far as to say that, also thrown in the LITTLE fact of how unstable 5.x is and you can see why the 4.x line is still predominantly used.

Heres an example if you want one - link (http://www.nfxplugins.com/downloads/misc/slow_ctrl_open.mov)

Open enough nodes in a day and that 1/2 to 3/4 second pause adds up. Plus not to mention I move the nodes instead of opening the parameter window, something I don't have a problem with using a Wacom in 4.x.

Anyways let the Shake forum be ;)

Aneks
09-16-2008, 05:15 AM
aw cummon.

it aint that bad. plus windows. plus camtasia !

nrgy
09-16-2008, 05:53 AM
aw cummon.

it aint that bad. plus windows. plus camtasia !

The rig that was recorded on played no part in the lag of the window opening speed, should of seen it during beta it was worse. That video was recorded at 24fps with no drop frames. Open 4.whatever and try what the video shows.

Regardless there is far worse problems with the 5.x line to which the slow window opening is only a small part of.

Machine spec:
8 core 2.63ghz Xeon
8gb RAM
Quadro 4600
Windows XP 64bit

ediris
09-16-2008, 10:35 AM
If you dont show these example i will not believe it, wow really slow downs the process. I can imagine under pressure these can be come annoying and frustrated.
Could it be a windows issue? Cause you have a pretty god machine with Intel Xeons the same than MacPro. And a freaking amazing video card.

cheebamonkey
09-21-2008, 07:57 PM
If you dont show these example i will not believe it, wow really slow downs the process. I can imagine under pressure these can be come annoying and frustrated.
Could it be a windows issue? Cause you have a pretty god machine with Intel Xeons the same than MacPro. And a freaking amazing video card.


must be his system or more importantly, drivers. I had driver issues w/XP64 and moved to Vista64 and never looked back. Speedy and so far, flawless drivers. I've tried the same "test" on 2 different systems with different specs and no issues. A QX9650 quad core extreme w/8800GTS (Vista64) and an old Dell Dual Xeon 3ghz w/Quadro4 960XL(?) (XP32). I'll try the PLE on my MacBook Pro running Windows a bit later.

Regardless, Nuke is a damn fine peice of software and got me away from Shake just as I was starting to learn it, thanks to FXPHD (*wave* aneks).

nrgy
09-21-2008, 08:45 PM
No its not my system, this bug was reported during the 5.1 beta and after. It has a tracking number so it affects more people then just me.

ediris
09-21-2008, 09:42 PM
Well i have never tried to open these many windows in the viweport runnning the PLE version. But i tell you i run it on MacBookPro 2,16 1Gram with no problem. Nuke just flys.
Why will you want to run Nuke under windows OS? I think it is more stable under OSX

TAVO
09-22-2008, 08:12 PM
Why will you want to run Nuke under windows OS? I think it is more stable under OSX

Im taking the Nuke course in FXPHD, the 102 one, and over the first class Sean had troubles with his Mac version, even he said that Windows and Linux versions are more stable than the Mac, dont know if still the same with 5.1 v2. But in my opinion it runs better in Linux than both Mac and Win, my 2 cents.

beaker
09-24-2008, 05:39 AM
Once they optimize the Qt version and refine it more I'm sure the speed will catch up. Just look at the difference between Mocha/Motor and Silhouette. Both are written in QT but Mocha UI is slow as piss and Silhouette is a speed demon. So it is just a matter of the programmers getting to know Qt better.

alexx
09-24-2008, 07:49 AM
Eh I wouldn't go so far as to say that, also thrown in the LITTLE fact of how unstable 5.x is and you can see why the 4.x line is still predominantly used.

Heres an example if you want one - link (http://www.nfxplugins.com/downloads/misc/slow_ctrl_open.mov)

Open enough nodes in a day and that 1/2 to 3/4 second pause adds up. Plus not to mention I move the nodes instead of opening the parameter window, something I don't have a problem with using a Wacom in 4.x.

Anyways let the Shake forum be ;)

i am currently running 5.1v2 on a machine with much lower specs than yours and that problem is not existent for me.
the windows open instantly. guess they worked some on that problem.

yes beaker.. we made it to buy something else than our old 2.46 :)

cheers

alex

Imhotep397
10-03-2008, 05:53 AM
I've talked to someone that's actually been talking to the Apple engineers recently and said Shake is not anywhere near dead. When it's going to come out is anyone's guess. After thinking about it as compositors go Shake 4.1 isn't behind any other comparative compositor feature or stability wise, because it's just not necessary to upgrade compositing software as often as some other software packages. There's nothing wrong with Nuke or learning Nuke, but I think a lot of people are just getting antsy over what amounts to peer pressure and marketing hype. I mean flint/flame/inferno had to go almost 10 years, at one point, without one major feature addition and for the longest time they were the creme de'la creme.

beaker
10-06-2008, 12:30 AM
I mean flint/flame/inferno had to go almost 10 years, at one point, without one major feature addition and for the longest time they were the creme de'la creme.Inferno came out in 1993, so your saying in the last 15 years it has been around that 10 years of that it did not have any major features added?

Aneks
10-06-2008, 12:50 AM
I've talked to someone that's actually been talking to the Apple engineers recently and said Shake is not anywhere near dead. When it's going to come out is anyone's guess.

I talked to someone once who talked to someone who had been abducted by aliens. Doesn't make it true. Look at the reality of the situation.

Who from the dev or programming teams is left at apple ?
Where did all the Shake programmers go ?
Who from the product development / visionary side of things remains with the big "A" ?
Why did Ron Brinkmann say on his blog that his leaving Apple could be seen as a reflection of his confidence on Apple further developing Shake or a similar application ?

Not trying to be rude, but as someone who has dealt with Pro Apps for years, spoken to key people in that department and works for one of the main sources of information about developments in the VFX industry, I can catagorically say that if anyone is in a position to know ANYTHING about the developement of new apps at Apple, THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT IT ! If there is something coming, some random guy who talked to some other un-named random guy supposedly in the inner circle is not gonna give you a scoop on this one !

After thinking about it as compositors go Shake 4.1 isn't behind any other comparative compositor feature or stability wise, because it's just not necessary to upgrade compositing software as often as some other software packages.

Unless you want any sort of decent 3d, proper exr support, images over 2k or decent performance when working float , caching, undos, grid warps.......


There's nothing wrong with Nuke or learning Nuke, but I think a lot of people are just getting antsy over what amounts to peer pressure and marketing hype. I mean flint/flame/inferno had to go almost 10 years, at one point, without one major feature addition and for the longest time they were the creme de'la creme.

you mean except for batch, action, 3d, extended bicubics, the warper, mutli-res support, new keyers, upgraded trackers and all that other stuff that got developed in those 10 years !?

ediris
10-06-2008, 01:00 AM
Even with the new toys coming out like Nuke,Fusion,etc. Inferno/Flame keep being used day by day. And lets not forget about Shake. Their use in the industry is vital specially for top rated spots .

One of the major changes that Flame has suffered was the transition from Octane to PC , so that alone talks , i always wonder why there was not available to run on Macs.
I guess is just business?

http://www.boneheadzsystems.sk/autodesk-media-entertainment/autodesk-flame.html

Aneks
10-06-2008, 01:27 AM
Shake, Nuke and Fusion are MASSIVELY different tools and occupy a different niche than FFI. If you have a feature film with 20 compostiors doing hundreds of shots then you are working on desktop systems. If you have a TVC spot with 12 shots that needs a client session you are working flame.

ediris
10-06-2008, 01:46 AM
oops double post

ediris
10-06-2008, 01:49 AM
Very well said Aneks.
FFI are the satndard for high end TV spots which sell more than a feauture films, whenever i see a book about Motion Graphics i see a 3d artists,AFX artists and the final touch is always on FFI. Coincidence, i dont think so.
But i have always wonder why Apple didnt make a deal with Autodesk.Seems like Autodesk is making people get a PC. That brings me to my point where Flame used to run on Irix now it runs on Windows and Linux only. What happend with SGI machines?

nrgy
10-06-2008, 02:15 AM
Regardless of whether Shake ever gets an upgrade you have to ask yourself this one very important question... Will it be Apple only?

I'd be willing to bet a return value of "True" and that just isn't a good thing for a product trying to compete in a very small industry such as VFX. Even more so with the popular packages being cross platform.

Aneks
10-06-2008, 02:33 AM
That brings me to my point where Flame used to run on Irix now it runs on Windows and Linux only. What happend with SGI machines?

flame is Linux on Intel. Discreet, who where bought out by Autodesk, always hated windows and made no secret of the fact. Their insistence on using SGI hardware and Irix long after it was overtaken by the speed of Intel on Linux caused a lot of red faces, when they finally ported and had to admit that flame on standard desktop hardware was considerably faster.

SGI went broke long ago, but their super computing area kept them afloat long after they stopped being competative in the visual workstation market. This was largely caused by the whle nVidia exodus. After they settled the law suit and started putting nVidia chips in Tezros and Fuels and the like, no one could understand why they should pay more for coloured boxes with cool names that had less 3d and open GL grunt !

ediris
10-06-2008, 07:46 AM
Wow!!! who would have thought Linux becoming a competitor of Apple probably its stability. But speed? I couldnot have imagine since SGI was running on 7200RPM long time ago.Not too long ago they were distributing SGI machines with WIndows NT inside. I almost got one.

Than what is next Sun Solaris is obsolete?Red Hat trading places with Apple OS?
Since Nuke runs on Linux as well i will not be surprised that many 3d developers start on programing on RedHat.

Aneks
10-06-2008, 12:22 PM
A lot of the larger studios are Linux based for Shake, Maya, Renderman and a few other things. The only reason to use one of the two big OS's is Adobe apps. If Photoshop ran properly on Linux only the producers would have Macs

alexx
10-06-2008, 12:25 PM
...If Photoshop ran properly on Linux only the producers would have Macs

*wipingAwayATearFromLaughter*

true true..

beaker
10-07-2008, 06:22 AM
If Photoshop ran properly on Linux only the producers would have MacsUnfortunately now it is also Modo, Zbrush and Mudbox that is also forcing big studios to get even more osx or windows boxes.

beaker
10-07-2008, 06:27 AM
But i have always wonder why Apple didnt make a deal with Autodesk.Seems like Autodesk is making people get a PC.Toxic is on it's way for osx.

As for FFI, I don't think people realize in the whole run of things how little of them that Autodesk sells(same with most other turnkey systems). It is only around 1-2 hundred a year, which is why they use one OS. Lustre is even less, maybe 20-30 of them a year, which is why it was developed on Windows before they bought it and then kept there because it isn't worth the switch if it doesn't really get enough seats to justify the port as long as it works.

beaker
10-07-2008, 06:31 AM
Since Nuke runs on Linux as well i will not be surprised that many 3d developers start on programing on RedHat.Where have you been? 3d developers have been making 3d apps on linux for 8-10 years. Maya, Soft3d, XSI, Houdini, Cinema4d/Bodypaint, Prman, Mental Ray, etc... all have run on linux for quite some time. There are 20 others I didn't even list.

ediris
10-07-2008, 07:26 AM
Where have you been? 3d developers have been making 3d apps on linux for 8-10 years. Maya, Soft3d, XSI, Houdini, Cinema4d/Bodypaint, Prman, Mental Ray, etc... all have run on linux for quite some time. There are 20 others I didn't even list.

Hey i wasnt aware of how much you knewed about software.I guess i have being listening to Jimmy Hendrix and reading motion design books. Not too much time to spend on forums.

dantea
10-08-2008, 02:48 AM
Where have you been? 3d developers have been making 3d apps on linux for 8-10 years. Maya, Soft3d, XSI, Houdini, Cinema4d/Bodypaint, Prman, Mental Ray, etc... all have run on linux for quite some time. There are 20 others I didn't even list.

I did a bit of digging on this:
Houdini - ??? 1999 according to Linux Journal (http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3522)
Maya - Mar 2001 according to Linux Journal (http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5235)
XSI - ??? 2002 according to Linux Journal (http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6011)

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