The Warlord

[dominicqwek]

woah! love that concept. I guess this game would go in line with gameplay for commandoes. Its fully real time plus u basically have an overview of the whole battle scene. This sounds really good. Looking forward to your updates!:thumbsup:

[dodo3d]

WOW

[Nicodemia]

Nice concept and Great sketch. :eek: Will the 3d model have the same stylised features? I can't wait to see.

[LordDubu]

Typically I can't draw anyone in armor unless I know what they look like under the armor:

http://www.studiozion.com/images/wip/warlord/warlord_naked.jpg

Then they complain about the draft, and the akwardness of running around naked with a sword, so I put some armor on them:

http://www.studiozion.com/images/wip/warlord/warlord_armor.jpg

The great thing about each art experiment, is that it teaches me something about myself. Last night I learned that I hate drawing on graph paper:

http://www.studiozion.com/images/wip/warlord/warlord_xyz_01.jpg

Looks like I'll be spending my lunch cleaning up the XYZ sketch.

[goodlag]

very nice concept & sketch

Good luck to you! :wavey: :bounce:

[LordDubu]

Originally posted by Nicodemia
Nice concept and Great sketch. :eek: Will the 3d model have the same stylised features? I can't wait to see.

Well that's the idea anyway. I'm making the shift to CG art from a life of conventional 2D. On paper, angular for organic shapes is easy... I'm curious to see if I can accomplish that style in 3D.

[genesis max]

Very nice concept. I can hardly wait to see him modeled.
I will be watching this thread. Keep going. :airguitar

[LordDubu]

http://www.studiozion.com/images/wip/warlord/warlordproof01.jpg

Quite a miniscule update I know, I'm still working out some issues with the geometry in my battle to match the angular facial planes of my drawing, without looking like it was an accident. At this point there aren't enough control planes to get a good nurbs patch (attempts thus far have created a model that looks far to smooth to be my work)...

Anyway I'm posting a scan of the plane geometry, there are some non-planars in there, and I'm working on the ears as we speak...

But you can get an idea of where I'm going.

[LordDubu]

http://www.studiozion.com/images/wip/warlord/warlordproof02.jpg

I'm still not happy with the results... the blockiness still looks accidental, and not a deliberate choice of style. Obviously the ears aren't done at this point...

[Dave Black]

Looking really nice so far, Dubu.

If your 2d skills are any indication of your dedication to perfection, then Im quite confident that you will manage to reach your vision for this character. :D

Best of luck, man, look'n killer so far!

-3DZ

:D

[LordDubu]

Thanks Zealot, actually I think my 2D skills are part of the problem... that is not using them I mean. I should have spent more time cleaniung up the X and Z sketches I'm using in modeler, and spent more time making sure the facial features were perfect from a drafting stand point before going to models...

I also think I should have used a spline cage instead of nurbs on this one... actually splines are my perferred method, but I thought with the angularity of this characters faces I'd have less of a hard time accomplishing what I want with nurbs...

I've half a mind to start over, take the points from this model, use them as reference to build a spline cage and see if I don't have better results...

half a mind... or at least half of half a mind, being that half a mind is really all i have to begin with... but i digress.

[Dave Black]

That's kinda funny, as I'd think polys would work best for the organics of the character, and then NURBS for his armor. Maybe that's just a Max user being jealous of your ability to actually use NURBS. Hmmmm.

I hear that about the drawing stuff. My skills are so rusty. But, you really have a talent most of us are lacking, so I would'nt feel too bad. Theres that dangerous thing about these challenges...Always rethinking and second-guessing. I've gotta learn to let go...and just stick with what I'm doing, so that I learn to do it better.

Anyway, again, looking killer.

Best of luck deciding on a modeling technique.

:buttrock:

-3DZ

:D

[dominicqwek]

i feel his facial features can be achieve with poly modelling. If you could transcend your 2d concept stright to 3d, this would look really good. Having those blocky features reminded me of the batman tv series, a lil bruce wayne looking. Nonetheless, im sure this will look good. Looking forward to more updates.:thumbsup:

Its important that the concept comes first. And sticking religiously to it. Previously, my models would be the outcome of generations of rethought concepts, and half the time they dont even turn up half decent.

[LordDubu]

http://www.studiozion.com/images/wip/warlord/warlordproof03.jpg

Well the good news is that his facial features are coming out closer to the concept drawing now... obviously there's some tweaking left, but for the most part I'm happy with the geometry there.

However...

I'm having a terrible time attaching his ear...

I'll keep plugging...

I'm worried though that I've spent too much time on just his head, and the armor concept looks all the more intimidating.

[LordDubu]

http://www.studiozion.com/images/wip/warlord/warlordproof04.jpg

OK... I think the model is at a point where I'm ready for some crits...

This is my first head model in about 5 or 6 years... so I'm rusty, and I've forgotten a lot of technique.

The earrings are temporary... until I build better ones.

[LordDubu]

Hmmmm...

Seeing the head in relatively the same angle as the drawing juxtaposed next to my avatar, I see some serious problem spots....

The cheaks are too diagonal, the brow doesn't have enough of a sharpness on top, and the eye sockes aren't as deep as they should be... the corners of the mouth aren't wide enough...

sigh...

more model tweaking.

[Dave Black]

Look'n wicked, dude!! Very much true to your concept. Wish I could throw you a crit, but I don't see anything wrong since you're going for that angular look.

This is gonna be such a great entry.

Keep at it, man! I just subscribed.

-3DZ

:D

[oxygen_77]

Good job so far... I think the tip of his nose needs to be smoothed out a bit though... I know you like the triangular look for the nose, but I think it's just a bit too pointy. His eyebrows need a bit more fleshing out.. I think currenly they don't stick out quite far enough. The lighting makes it a little difficult to see how his cheeks really look so I can't comment on them.. maybe try setting up a 3-point light setup where you use 3 separate colours for the lights and you'll be able to tell more of the shape. Hope my comments help! Keep up the great work!

[Nicodemia]

I dont agree. I don't think the nose is too pointy (that sticks to the concept) I think it sticks out too far. Just push it in some. Just a thought!:shrug:
Lookin great apart from that.

[LordDubu]

I agree with the nose being a problem, while I don't think it's too pointy when matched to the concept, it's clearly not wide enough...

the ears are too organic looking too... that's been a real challenge... making the ears look deliberately angular, not just poorly tesseleated is a challenge in its own right...

[LordDubu]

Here's my latest update... with some self-critique markup.

http://www.studiozion.com/images/wip/warlord/warlordproof05.jpg

[oxygen_77]

Really cool looking! I think if you make it match the markup lines it'll be perfect!!!

[Savage_Henry]

So this is what you've been spending all your time on!

looks real good!! I like the angular look very much. I think you've got a handle on most of the problem spots...but one thing that I could add: I think the bridge of the nose needs to be moved up to meet the eye brows. There seems to be an empty area there. I think if you fill it, it will add to his scowl. I really like the chin area!!:thumbsup:

[LordDubu]

Henry, Yeah, this is what I've been up to for the past week, sorry I know you've been waiting for some Insadong updates...

You know you're dead spot on with the bridge of the nose, I noticed that last night, I tried to indicate that on my markup sketch. At any rate, I've noticed as I've been working on this that I've started studying people's faces on the train a lot closer. I've been caught staring a couple of times...

Looking at the model right now he looks too much like the actor who played the sentinal and not enough like Warlord should. I think my next step is to put my avatar sketch as a backdrop in layout and then start matching him up.

The eyes are total excrement right now. I hate and despise them! I spit on them! PTUI!

If I have time to do it before deadline, I'm going to use bump maps for some of the facial geometry as well, like the curve created by the temple and scalp, the crags that should run from the bridge of the nose to the corner of the mouth etc.

Regardless of whether or not I finish this model in time I'm going to finish the model... I've decided to open up a section on my web site featuring the entire serial "Fairtyale" present as a single short story, with some 3D "illumination" adjoining the text... Warlord here will grace said page.

[dominicqwek]

nice progress. the seams on the face kinda look harsh to me. I know you're trying to transcend as much of your sketch to 3d. It wont be easy, but im sure you'll make it. And either way, i'll still be looking forward to this model!

:thumbsup:

[Dave Black]

Lord Dubu, you're definately making progress. I think your idea of matching the sketch up in the viewport is a really good idea for this sort of thing. Your initial ortho layouts did'nt quite match the original sketch, and I think that's what's tripping you up. In the original sketch, his head is much shorter, and all his features are thicker, stronger, and have more squat proportions. At least, that's my impression.

I really hope you continue with this challenge, as I for one am really enjoying your work. I personally like to see that others struggle just as myself, and that we are all just slowly advancing no matter what the difficulties. I admire your commitment to this project, as often people(myself included) get frustrated with some seemingly impassible barrier, and give up. Just by the quality of your 2d work, it is obvious that you truely have a mature artisitic eye, and now it's just a matter of shoe-horning your vision into these rediculously confining tools.

Also, don't forget that you've been looking at it for too long. Of course you will begin to hate it. As a casual observer, it really is starting to look good, FWIW.

Keep us posted!

-3DZ

:D

[LordDubu]

Well, the Orthos sucked. Last night I turned them off, and just squeezed, pulled, tucked and pushed polys until I felt the face met a -very- similar geometry to the concept illo (first in thread).

The only issue still outstanding at this point is that cursed ear. I've tried adding geometry to it several different ways, but so far nothing has quite resulted in that angular look of the concept illo.

I would just move on, but I'm afraid its smoother geometry is such a distracting feature compared with the rest of the faces angular look that it corrupts the whole aesthetic, and implys that the angular bits aren't deliberate but that I'm an inexperienced modeler who doesn't know what he's doing. Of course I -AM- an inexperience modeler who doesn't know what he's doing... but I don't want to IMPLY that!

No image today... as a self respecting artist the ear just disgusted me too much... OK OK... The truth is I didn't get up early enough this morning to work on the model.

[Savage_Henry]

lets see some progress on that ear!!

[Vladvrz]

I like the lokk and style,nice work here man.:thumbsup:

[Zixe]

*hears the wind blowing by*:bounce:

[LordDubu]

Indeed Zixe, Indeed...

Well here's the deal. Last night I decided that the model looks like crap. I hated it. I despise it. I utterly oppose its very existence in its current form. It is not fit to live, it must bestroyed I spit on its very existence. May it be pulled apart by the demons of a thousand pixelated hells.

So... I started over with b-splines. Thus the drought of updates will continue for at least a couple of more days.

My chagrin concerning the model arises from the fact that it simply looks amateur. Granted I am an amateur. But that doesn't mean I have to look like one. I've failed to model something that looks deliberately angular, and have instead modeled something that looks like my naivete corrupted during production resulting in a geometrically inferior model.

I fear at this point, despite the extreme disadvantage this puts me in for completing the challenge on time (my personal deadline is a week earlier than everyone else because I won't have access to a computer for a week). But I cannot in good conscience allow my name to be associated with what this model looks like in its current damnable incarnation.

Oh and by the way. I freakin' hate my entry right now.

[Dave Black]

Hey man, believe me, I understand.

Just keep on with whatever you can, and finish what you can. If you can't complete the challenge, you will at least have a great modeling project to play with, and one hell of a great set of sketches.

Man, I'm really sorry to hear you scrapped it, as it was starting to come together. But, I understand. Hope you'l at least post the progress of your B-spline version.

Best of luck, bro!

-3DZ

:D

[Zixe]

Yah...what 3Dzealot said :thumbsup:

[dominicqwek]

no worries m8..no matter what happens, you'll always have our support. Its a wonderful concept ( and that means you're a wonderful artist :thumbsup: ), dont give up hope and i agree with 3dzealot, do continue to post your updates. :beer:

[LordDubu]

One more thing:

On a question of style, I'm not happy with Warlord's current incarnation. If anything most people who recognize my stylistic motiff, comment on the use of minimalistic "implied line" in my character designs (conversley I go overboard in non-character detail: armor, buildings, tech etc.).

Shadow-triangles instead of noses, eyes hidden in shadow whenver possible, corners of mouths instead of lips... etc (here's a WIP which might demonstrate this more clearly than Warlord does:Itaewon Gang (http://www.studiozion.com/images/gang3.jpg),Sae-Young Closeup (http://www.studiozion.com/images/sukliorkumiko.gif) or for example in this one:Sayuri-chan (http://www.studiozion.com/images/fet_sayurioriginal.gif), i've gone high-detail, which you can clearly see is still minimalist.)

So last night after my latest render i said to myself: "Self" (we're on a first name basis) "This really doesn't remind me of me." I agreed with me, so we decided to start over with the geometry.

Now I am not sure if geometry, or rendering, or even post-rendering is the answer to my "implicit" style problems, but I thought I'd see if I could come up with something a little more "trademark DeForrest".

[oxygen_77]

The conversation you had with yourself reminds me a little of what we talked about the other day where I said I want to find my own style... seems like you're still searching for your own 3D style (although it's obvious you've found your 2D style). Good luck with the splines! I know you'll manage!

[LordDubu]

Well a little while ago myself came back with some flowers and some chocolate, and said he was sorry for being so down on me earlier about this whole modeling thing. He thought it would be a good idea to try and work things out, so we worked a little more on the model... and this is what we came up with.

http://www.studiozion.com/images/wip/warlord/warlordproof08b.jpg

The top row is the normal render, the second row, is a little of a test of possible post modifications that might create something a little closer to the implied lines of my 2D style.

Crits and Critique would be very useful at this stage.

Hit me!

[genesis max]

You made it man, now he looks like one from your sketches, keep working on it and you will be veeery satisfied.
Greets :beer:

[oxygen_77]

I think there's a problem with the back of his ear where it connects the ear to the head... it's too smooth and wide... I also think his head might be a bit too thin.. maybe hit "Ctrl+F1" to go to a front view of the head, then hit "h" and hold the "Ctrl" key while left clicking and dragging the mouse to the right to scale the head's thickness out a bit. Other than that it looks really good!

[LordDubu]

Originally posted by genesis max
...keep working on it and you will be veeery satisfied.

Thanks Max I really appreciate the vote of confidence. Now hopefully I can live up to your enthusiasm and expectations.

Originally posted by oxygen_77
I think there's a problem with the back of his ear where it connects the ear to the head... it's too smooth and wide... I also think his head might be a bit too thin..

You're right on both points there Oxy. Interestingly enough, there's not a lot of visual reference out there for the back of the ear-lobe. So... as a matter of conseqence I paid close attention to ears on the subway today.

(Hopefully no one noticed me staring at the backs of thier ears... couple that with my whole talking to myself kind of thing and people might start to think we...errr I am crazy.)

What you see there right now is the best I could do last night modeling by touch... that is to say I'd feel the back of my ear and try to model what I felt.

The errors (after studying three seperate earrlobes on the train) are in my opinion:

1) Not enough convex curve at the top and bottom of the ear. While I noticed that the "lip" does in fact straighten out and become more flush toward the area between the top and bottom of the ear, there is a much starker contrast than I've got going on.

2) Not enough thickness at the base of the skull. Basically the skull actually juts out more at that point, creating a little cleft for the ear-cartilage. It's not actually that my ear-cartilage is too long, but that it should be more obscured by the base of the skull.

[LordDubu]

http://www.studiozion.com/images/wip/warlord/warlordproof09.jpg

Latest geometry fixes for:

Ears - closer to head, convex at bottom and top increased.
Skull base - width.

Remaining issues:

Skull base - curve incorrect
Everything else - body etc.

[oxygen_77]

whoa!! weird way of posting the wireframe!! using the polygon width instead of the render wireframes option....

ok, the main issues I'm having with it are the chin seems too long and thin and the head still seems too thin... at least as compared to the reference pics I've seen so far... also I think the cheekbone doesn't quite stick out far enough... Looks like you did a pretty good job optimising the mesh, but I hope you're planning on using endomorphs for the facial animations because I'd hate to think of having to make weight maps to retain all those angular lines... Looks like you've made some good progress! Keep on workin'!

[LordDubu]

Keep in mind that in the source pick, the neckline of his armor overlaps his chin, creating the impression that its actually shorter than it really is... since that's the source pic though, its a matter of conjecture to how much overlap is actually there... ie... i have no clue how long his chin should be, aside from trying to make it look aestheticly pleasant.

Oddly enough, (maybe its the perspective ammount in the preview window of LW) his head looks much bulkier in the modeler. And until you pointed it out, I didn't realize how thin it looks in layout.

The straight on shape of the head in modeler in fact is rather bulky... almost comically.:shrug:

Yeah I'd probably use morph targets for facial animation on him... seeing as to how I've never used weight-maps and am not used to designing a model for them. I'm still modeling with LW 4.0 in mind (reference my mortal fear of non-quad polys)... despite multiple versions since then, the only time I really used the package extensively was in the year that 5 came out...

I didn't upgrade to 7 until last year, and didn't start using it until about 6 months ago... in short... I've got a lot of catching up to do.

I find it frustrating to have visuals in my head, that my knowledge simply doesn't support the adequate execution of. If I could animate what was in my head, exactly as it was in my head... heck.. I'd at least be marginally semi-famous by now.

[Savage_Henry]

ah man!!

great do-over!! I've been so busy with my brother getting here...I've been away from the boards for almost a week.

I really like the new version. great work man. Don't stop:buttrock:

[Franky]

very distinguised speacial look.A old World comic style lok to me.I like him,I'll look for more of him later.Promising work.:beer:

[LordDubu]

Sorry, about the dealy in updating this. In preperation for my vacation I haven't had even a brief second to work on any of my current projects.

As it is I am not going to make deadline on this entry. So I'll see if I can get the thread moved to WIP and continue it there. Regardless I want to finish this model.

[Zixe]

Im still waiting :thumbsup:

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