Motion blur: Airplane proppeller

[zarkos]

This is with object motion blur:

[zarkos]

It should look like this:

[Marcel]

The last picture looks good, map it on a plane and your are done :thumbsup:

The best and fastest way is to create a blurred propeller image, map it on a plane and rotate it. You'll never get the motionblur good enough with 'real' propellor geometry.

[dmak]

Another method would be to render out RPF files for combustion, then use combustion to create the realistic motionblur you want. If you don't have combustion, you can render the propellers on a seperate layer and comp them in with after effects and use that for motion blur.. One of those methods should produce some nice motion blur. Good Luck!

Dm

[zarkos]

Marcel:
The third picture was made in Photoshop. And idea of a blured image is good. Thanks

Dmak:
I'm a new owner of Combustion and I tried motion blur effect but I'm not satisfied, it looks like pass effect. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

[dmak]

how exactly did you implement the motion blur in combustion?

I would have to do a test myself to be sure of the settings you would require, but I know it's doable and most likely will achieve much better results than with max. If I get some time I'll give it a shot and maybe make a little tutorial for you.

Dm

[Dave Black]

FWIW, Final Render Stage 1 seems to do it real well.

http://www.finalrender.com/products/feature.asp?UD=10-7888-35-788&PID=36&FID=301

Just a heads-up.

-3DZ

:D

[zarkos]

I used Motion blur effect but it's similar to pass effect, a little bit better.

I know about FR1 but that part of site was not changed for a long time.:sad:

[CapnPanic]

dmak: the combustion rpf motion blur will just look like the max image-based motion blur as it uses the same info (vector channel) to base the blur off of.

and also in the technology-you-can't-use-yet department brazil also does 3d motion blur: http://www.splutterfish.com/sf/tech_gallery_index.php

just not in the current version, should be in v2. V-Ray says it does "Motion blur with analytic sampling" but i'm not really sure what that means, so i'm guessing its just more vector-based motion blur. so, basically, you can't have any real 3d motion blur in max without a whole lot of work (might be able to use mental ray or prman, but i'm not familiar with either)

so i'm gonna agree with marcel's suggestion and say that your best bet is to make a blurred map in photoshop and map that on to a disc for your prop. and then rotate that slowly in your animation so it looks like it moves.

good luck :)

[zarkos]

So be it :deal:


Thanks

[dmak]

Alright, I decided to do a little test with combustion, and Capn_Panic you are right about the motion blur. However, using Roll Blur and slowing down the frame rate, I was able to come up with something that looks like a good start. Still needs work, but this isn't my project :)

propeller movie: link (http://www.faktorystudios.com/3dmak/prop_blur1.avi)

RPF Blur in combustion:
link (http://www.faktorystudios.com/3dmak/rpfblur.avi)

I checked out the following images as a good reference:

c-130 - 1st img (http://www.aero-pix.com/pease/static/c130-c.jpg)

c-130 - 2nd image (http://www.afrc.af.mil/440aw/images/c130-over-mke1.jpg)

Anyways, I think the two options are (there probably are others though):
1. render the props on a seperate layer, comp them in with combustion or another app with more blur features.
2. render and blur an image as you like it then map it to a flat propeller object (as directed by others in thread)

[John-Stetzer]

Do both (IMB and multipass); set IMB and camera Durations to .3, as a starting point (assuming everything else is at the defaults).

[mikewebb]

2 Different motion blur passes are what I would suggest. The multi pass version first and then a motion blur done in post to smooth it out.

Mike

[zarkos]

Yes! With both effects looks great thanks a lot!

[zarkos]

Final result:

[yoni-cohen]

I usually clone the rotor for 3-6 copies and set their visibility to 1/ number of clones.
apply image motion blur on them and you'll get a perfect blur.

for making a velocity changing rotor you sould use a script controller that catches the rotation of the previous tick/frame..

[Strob]

For most of my motion blur need and speed in the process, I use RPF and combustion, but for a rotor like this with extreme motion blur, I use a combination of object motion blur and RPF in combustion. With combustion you tweak without rerendering all.

[DerPapa]

Mblur is a must, especially when you render in fullframes for TV resolution!

We had big Problems with motionblur in our Inhouse project.
We have a running character in there, a really fast running character, with, rotating Mblurs for the whole body.
This means Image mblur, which only works with straight motion, doesn't work. (as you see on the rotor pic above)

We seperated the Character from the environment and rendering the tunnels, he is running trough with 1 pass and Velochannel. the cameramotion is mostly not rotating, just panning. Perfect for RPFblur.

Not so with the character. The character is rendered with a combination of Multipass and Imageblur. It works fine, but every Pass means another complete Image, with shadowmaps calc and and and... to keep the rendertimes as short as possible we animating(!) the samples of the mulitpasses here. If our character is shown in front, or from back we use 4 samples and if he is visible from side we use 8 plus a permanent Imageblur with duration about 0,3 gives a nice result!

Another problem is the alpha in the compositing. It always has a tint to the background color you are rendering on. To avoid this, we first render the environment, and then using it as backplate in max to render the character. Only to get the correct rimpixels.

This is our workround to get a good qual Mblur with tolerable rendertimes.


greetz
Michael

[owiik]

Hello,
Interesting thread. I tested some motion blur with vray.
Both animations are rendered with monte carlo sampling. The other method is analytic sampling. I might test some more motion blur later with vray.

http://www.corenne.com/owiik/cgtalk/vray_mblur_01.avi
http://www.corenne.com/owiik/cgtalk/vray_mblur_02.avi

also 2 still images from both animations (frame nr 18)

http://www.corenne.com/owiik/cgtalk/GI_prop_mblur0018.jpg
http://www.corenne.com/owiik/cgtalk/prop_mblur0018.jpg

[zarkos]

As I can see owiik, it's same vector blur like in Scanline or Brazil.

[ZeBoxx]

zarkos - vector moblur works on vectors.
Shadows don't provide vectors.

Note that the pictures posted have motion blur in the shadows.

:)

[owiik]

zarkos:
yes the mblur in the tests I´ve made don´t get the circle shape. I have to put higher gemoetry samples to get that effect. I will upload a new animation later.

good point ZeBoxx, the motionblur on shadows looks really good.
I tried with scanline motionblur just to compare the shadows and blured shadows are really impressive.

here is link to image with higer samples
http://www.corenne.com/owiik/cgtalk/GI_prop_mblur_highsample0132.jpg

[zarkos]

U R both right. But I will like to see real MB but unfortunately we have to wait for next versions of renderers. :sad:

[owiik]

here is the the last animation with more geometry samples

http://www.corenne.com/owiik/cgtalk/vray_mblur_03.avi

[DerPapa]

All these Propellertests are nice, no matter what renderer you use, but If you have a real scene, which is full in motion, due to camera movement, with a high amount of geometry and maps, this is another story!
I think sooner or later it will be no question of using GI, MPD/MTD, 3D Mblur in a scene, cause it will be as normal as working with a full textured scene in viewport today.
But to get it nice and fast 3D mblur is no option yet. NOT YET!

;)
Michael

[RichardK]

Guys this is just the topic im after! I am doing a WW2 animation that is WIP for my new demo reel. I have used DreamScape for Max 6 for the sky. But there is one thing I am having trouble with which is the propellers. I have managed to get them rotating really fast but it's the motion blur which is the thing that i am finding hard. This is what results Im getting :(

http://premium.uploadit.org/RichardK/blur.jpg

Please can someone help me, tell me how to do it.

Thanks!

[DerPapa]

hey, you found this thread. What about reading it?

No offense :)
Michael

[RichardK]

Ok I did read it but Im not sure how to add Combustion Blur or how to do it sorry but I havn't really done this kinda thing before :sad:

[DerPapa]

ok, in short: there is a difference between 2d Mblur, as the Imageblur is and 3d Mblur, as the multipass camera effect does.
look up "multi-pass Motion Blur" in your Max reference to get info about what you need.

Michael

[RichardK]

ah ok thanks i'll look it up and see thanks! :thumbsup:

Add:

http://premium.uploadit.org/RichardK/multi-pass-Motion-Blur.jpg

Ah I see!! This was done following the reference in max to add a camera and select multi-pass motion blur. So This might work then as my animations have cameras so all I have to do is turn that option on.

[DerPapa]

You got it man :) But beware! Every Pass means a full render of your image. 12 Passes increases your rendertime 12 times! thats why I use a lower amount of passes and smear it with the 2d Imageblur. Not physically correct but faster.

Cheers
Michael

[RichardK]

oh i see thanks for warning me! I mean my animation took 3 hrs to render with just the normal image blur so no wonder how long it would take to render it with this multi-blur. Surly there must be a quick way to get this blured like that without using a multi-blur? I have Combustion 3 but is that a better way to do this?

[DerPapa]

UH! in this case i would hardly recommend to think about, if a circular plane with a gradient opacitymap would do the job as well?!

;)

Michael

[RichardK]

hmm I could give it ago damm this sucks! I want a realistic propeller :sad:

[percydaman]

V-Ray says it does "Motion blur with analytic sampling" but i'm not really sure what that means, so i'm guessing its just more vector-based motion blur. so, basically, you can't have any real 3d motion blur in max without a whole lot of work


ya vray had real 3d motion blur before brazil did. Not starting a flame war, but to say that vrays motion blur is some sort of 2d vector hack because you dont understand how it works is pretty ignorant.

[RichardK]

Guys i have used FinalRender - 1 for Max 6 and I have used the motion blur but I get this result.

http://premium.uploadit.org/RichardK/Final_Render.jpg
http://premium.uploadit.org/RichardK/final_render_blur.jpg

Can anyone help me fix this? As you can see it has dotted gaps in the blured propeller

Thanks!

[marktsang]

hi,
never used finalrender but it looks like a sampling issue, increase samples!
mark

[RichardK]

ok thanks I'll see if I can in FinalRender


Added:

I can't find it! Please someone help me fix this

[MasterOfLight]

Guys i have used FinalRender - 1 for Max 6 and I have used the motion blur but I get this result.

Can anyone help me fix this? As you can see it has dotted gaps in the blured propeller
Thanks!how much samples do you use for motion-blur (Renderer-rollout->camera->motion blur->samples) ??
I just tried with default settings (16 samples) and get a clean image !
.M

[RichardK]

I'm not using a camera I cant really cause I have a real time animation which is 100 frames for the first scene so it's really gonna kill the rendering time :( Surly there is another way to fix this or do I have to use a Camera with Multi-Pass Motion Blur. Hey can you send me the scene so I can see i'm so new to this.

[MasterOfLight]

I'm not using a camera I cant really cause I have a real time animation which is 100 frames for the first scene so it's really gonna kill the rendering time :( Surly there is another way to fix this or do I have to use a Camera with Multi-Pass Motion Blur. Hey can you send me the scene so I can see i'm so new to this.
here is a simple fR scene:
ftp://lightline.homeunix.com/propeller.zip

it's just using default values.
.M

[RichardK]

Hey thanks man! i didn't realise that finalRender had the tutorial scenes I just realised that and I found the propeller max file so thanks I had a look at it and it has helped alot!!! Check out what it looks like now

I'll upload any updates on my animation as soon as it's done! :thumbsup:

http://premium.uploadit.org/RichardK/finalRender_Blur_1.JPG http://premium.uploadit.org/RichardK/finalRender_Blur_2.JPG http://premium.uploadit.org/RichardK/finalRender_Blur_3.JPG

[MasterOfLight]

with the latest service pack (SP2b) you should get it even cleaner/faster :)

.M

[RichardK]

Cool I havnt got SP2a yet but I will do later

[RichardK]

Hi,

I have encouted another problem :( finalRender dosn't like the textures on the plane becuase they have reflection/refraction materials on it. But I removed it but now it will take 10hrs to render 150 frames. Then a few mins during the rendering it crashed. Is there another way to get a good blur effect?

Richard

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