WIP: My second painting ever (advice welcomed)

[Algorithmic]

update:
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/4.jpg
closeup 50%:
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/closeup.jpg

[Algorithmic]

made some small tweaks, more updates soon. http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/closeup2.jpg

[ValerKa]

How you think?

Maybe wings must be real but in flame? Mm... now yours wing a "full-fire" i hope you understand what i mean...

[ojcruz]

I like the anatomy but I can still sort of see him shirtless under all the fabric. Like the clothes had abs and a clavicle. Same goes for the pants. Maybe looser clothing would look more natural.

Also his expression is a bit plain. Maybe a more deliberate gesture could work better.

As for the wings, I think ValerKa means you should give him real wings and set them on fire as opposed to giving him wings of fire. I'm not sure what the concept is but it might be worth looking into.

That aside I think you're off to a good start. Especially for your second digital painting.
Don't use the smudge tool so much for your blending. It's death when it comes to textures.

I'm not sure how new you are to digital painting but if you're just starting out I'd say keep in mind that you can work non destructively and play around with brushes and blend modes.

Looking forward to your updates.

[Algorithmic]

Update: (did some more work on the legs, added a facial expression, some modifications to the clothing style and color, and other small tweaks)
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/7.jpg

ValerKa- Thank you so much for Commenting :) I Think I understand what you mean after reading ojcruz's post. I will try making actual wings for him and seeing if those look better, but for right now I have a specific theme in mind I want to try first (I hope it works... but really I'm not sure myself).

ojcruz- Thank you for the comment! I'm glad you like the anatomy, the reason I am making the clothing so tight is because I'm trying to go for more of a "superhero outfit feel". And that specific style usually accentuates muscles such as abs and alike, If this just doesn't end up looking very good after I've worked on it more I'll definitely take your suggestion and tone it down a bit and see how it looks.
In my last update I took your advice and gave him a facial expression, I'm not sure If I should try another but I like it better than a blank face anyway, so thanks for pointing that out (feel free to critique or suggest another expression as well). And thanks for the tip on smudging, I'm actually not doing it a whole lot (I have my brushes set on a very low opacity) but I'll try to cut down a bit on that.
Anyway thanks again for the great advice, I am actually fairly new to not just digital painting but painting in general. When I said "second painting ever" I wasn't just talking just about digital (discounting finger-painting as a child of course :P ), this is actually my second painting ever. However my first painting was of space and used more Photoshop tricks than actual painting.... Here's a link to my first if you want to see what I mean: http://fc06.deviantart.com/fs31/i/2008/199/d/a/In_the_midst_of_creation____by_Algorithmic.png


Oh and a comment to everyone, the concept I'm working towards is that of a super hero with pyrokenetic powers, who is basically making fiery wings spontaneously sprout from him. As for the actual design, I'm trying to make it as original as possible without sacrificing the ability of a viewer to interpret what is happening.

[Algorithmic]

New update (about 60% zoom):
Finished the hands, made some progress on the legs and other bits of clothing. I also experimented with a few backgrounds but none of them stuck me as being good.

Any suggestions/ideas on a background would be appreciated
critique and comments are also encouraged, I'd like to hear from you guys :)

http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/closeupof8b.jpg

[PatrickVDK]

HEy the concept is pretty awsome dude.
A little advice, usually fire is the brightest where it burns, so it would be logical that the part closest to the body should have the brightest color like the yellow and close to white, then gradually gradient out to red as it reaches the wings. ALso consider actually defining the shape of the fire instead of making it looks like strands of fiber somewhat forming the shape of the wings, put some attention to the turbulence shapes will sure improve your painting.
Think about separating the flame on character's hands from the wings, if your intention is connect them, don't just use the same color and kindda smudge them together, it makes the features look flat, again, define the shape of the fire and "swirl" them into the wings if you know what i mean :p
one way to add life to your character's face would be to decorate the eyes with some highlight, make sure you finish the iris because, hell you have wings of fire, that must light up the eyes somewhat? right?
GOodluck and hope my advices help you alittle!! À tout!

[Algorithmic]

sexybronzer- Thanks for all the advice! :) yup definitely need to work a lot more on the fire, I'll take your advice into account when I do this. I want it to be very obvious that the flames are coming from him, so I do want to connect the fire from his hands to the wings, I'll certainly try to implement the advice you gave on color and turbulence in that aspect.
Ahh, that's what I'm missing! I knew I needed to work on the eyes more, thanks mate, I'll experiment with some highlights and some other ideas that have just popped into my head...
Thanks again, everyone's advice is much appreciated :)



everyone: I've been pretty busy with homework and stuff lately, but I'll work on it more this weekend and try to get in some more updates soon. And again, I like to hear from you guys so be sure to leave a comment. And as long as you maintain a polite attitude I'm quite open to harsh critique as well.

[Algorithmic]

Update : finally did some work on the feet, cape and material texture, I think I'll work more heavily on trying to find a good background and small tweaks here and their now. Oh and revamp the fire... that's a big one. I probably shouldn't work on too much more small details though, considering how big the final picture will be I doubt they can even be seen....
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/feetcloseup.jpg
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/9s.jpg

[TobyArt]

Really like what you've gotten so far, the only foot crit I'd have is thwe boot look a bit boring... May want to consider adding some straps or ties to it. As far as the background I think just adding in a dark (not black, but close to black) background would help it alot by bringing out the fire light. Also I don't know the backstory on the character to set a time period to him, but a nighttime scene could be cool, you could play alot with the light coming from him (fire) splashing on his surroundings. Great stuff, eager to watch this develop.

[Algorithmic]

Zyrinx- Thanks so much for the support :) I think your absolutely right, the boot is very boring, and straps are a good idea. I've started to add them in this update. Also added a dark base color to the backdrop, and I think your right again, a darker background will be fitting, especially since I can play more with the light and color that the fire is giving off. Thank a lot for the help!

Update: Finally some major updates, I overhauled his anatomy, made him much buffer (I want him to have a fit superhero body) and changed the eyes and face quite a bit. I've begun adding straps to his boot. I also noticed the crease on his shoulders was making it look as if his shoulders were slumped forward, so I added another one to counteract it.
And finally, I've been looking at a lot of pictures of fire, and the new wings are quick prototype of the color scheme I'm going to try for. Plus a few other tweaks that I cant remember... Comments as always would be great! :)
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/12.jpg

[Algorithmic]

Update:
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/13.jpg

Comments/critique are appreciated :)

[DArcy1]

This is really coming along. Just two things; one is purely preference - I wonder if the wings are too tall - they seem overpowering in the upper part of the painting. Second, and more important is that it's taken me this long to realise the lighting on his face is really off - e.g. the flames are lighting up his face but his cheeks are in shadow. I may be wrong but I think the perspective on his face is off as well - do you have a reference photo of a face looking upwards?

D'Arcy

[Algorithmic]

DArcy1- Thank you for taking the time to comment :) Your absolutely right the lighting on his face is off, I got rid off the shadows and I think it helped quite a bit, thanks. I'm not using a reference of any kind so any help in this area is greatly appreciated. I think I managed to fixed the face in this update, however because I've been staring at it for a while I can't be too sure, so any other suggestions in this areas would be greatly appreciated. Also I'm going to keep the wing height for right now because I think I might be need the extra room in the background I will be giving it. Thanks again

Update:
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/14zoom.jpg

Critique away please :)

[DArcy1]

Just a reference - I tried to take these with a flashlight to capture the largely side lighting of your guy, hope they may be useful in some way. Don't forget this one, you are 80% there :-)

D.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3229/2883920360_14eda1c182_o.jpg

[Algorithmic]

Wow thanks a bunch D'Arcy! I really love how people get so involved at Cg society it's so different from most art sites (DA for instance) with a simple "that's awesome" (not much to build upon huh). I'd be developing an ego the size of Texas without ever improving my art in the slightest ha ha. Anyway, thanks again for the interest and references. The one problem with using a flashlight though is that my lighting source in the painting is not coming from a single point (like a flashlight), rather it's coming from 2 huge 13 foot wings... making lighting very complex (coming from bellow and above at the same time, not just the side). It does give me something to build upon though, I'm getting ideas about it as I type... :)

Unfortunately, I'm finding myself rather busy during the week because of school and such... so consistent Updates are probably out of the question. I will update, when I can though, This is for one of my friends so i can't really just stop working on it rest assured, lol.
Another problem is... detail, because of the size of the background and wings, the face won't even be 40x40 pixels on the final scaled piece, so many of the buttons, straps and other details will go completely unnoticed... making me hesitant to work much more on the actual character, since no one would see it without the full 3000x2400 image. Bad planning on my part I guess, at least I'll know for next time.

[OKMER]

wow these pics are big :D
For a second painting ever this is really great!wow.

Personaly I think you can maybe push a bit further the light the wings bring on the character himself.
All by thinking out how each material react to the light.
Some brighter light on the face on both sides, etc.
That would be my 2 cents riht now.Keep m coming!

[Algorithmic]

OKMER- Thanks a lot. I've almost completely redone the structure of the face and amped up the light from the side like you said, unfortunately their is also light coming from almost all directions because of the wings shape and size, making it a bit trickier, but hopefully this update looks better.
That being said... Your art is freaking awesome!!! I escpecially like your "Uuka-Son of Akuya-Ku" pictures and the amount of preparation you put into them, thanks for taking the time to comment.


Update:
worked on the face some more. I Used some pictures from the internet of faces illuminated by fire as color reference, but because of the shear size of the light source it's odd to paint unlike light coming from, for example: a small candle. So any more critiques would be great.
(keep in mind, the face will be about 40x40 pixels in the final picture....)

http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/beforeafter.jpg

[Algorithmic]

Another update:
A quick concept for a background I kind of like (better than the others anyway) ... I'll mess with it a bit more, and eventually start defining and detailing it.
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/16.jpg

[DArcy1]

I like the face a lot more now. I did have a thought re the lighting: Shouldn't the flames get less bright near the tips? and less solid as well - like this? It would mean that you'd get a tad more side vs top lighting

[Algorithmic]

DArcy1- Wow that really does make a difference, I agree it does look much better having them less solid and bright at the tips, and in turn make lighting a bit simpler. Great idea, thanks!

[Fungicide]

I <3 the wings, make em glow. the background kinda has the "Too Human" (the game) feel.

[TedNindo]

this piece is moving along very nicely. The change in the face is very cool. The new face looks very good. I would make his nose a bit wider but thats just my opinion.

[wo0lF]

Like DArcy1 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=150242) said.. add some black to flames.

[Algorithmic]

Fungicide- Thank's! :) added some glow.
TedNindo- Thank you, I'll tweak the nose a bit more for next update.
wo0lF- gotcha ;)

Update:
Added some minor details, darkened and thinned out the wings at the ends, made them glow, and tweaked the background some more. I'll add some rubble and other details next time, I also got rid of that big blue column of light because I think it was a little too distracting right in between the wings.
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/17.jpg

[Algorithmic]

Update:
Upon realizing the lighting and perspective were completely unrealistic on my last background I redid it with perspective guides (which took quite a while... ). Right now it's obviously looks very plain, but don't worry I'm going to use my previous background as a creative target and really load up the background with details (conduits, pipes, rubble, etc.) I just felt I needed to get the basic outline and perspective down before I went any further and ended up kicking myself in the end. I also need to darken the underside of the cape and fix a few other mistakes. Comments and critique as always are appreciated :)
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/18.jpg

close up of the supports and one of the tubes:
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/cu.jpg

[DArcy1]

There is something to be said in knowing when to stop painting. Many may disagree, but I say stop now. Toss the blue cables in the trash and keep the background just as it is. I really, really like this just as it is! I saw the update and it just grabbed me and wouldn't let go.:eek:

D'Arcy

[Algorithmic]

DArcy1- Thanks! I'm really glad you think it looks good like this. And I really do value your opinion, however I can't help but think that I could do quite a bit more with this piece, The background consists of a bunch of very plain looking blocks currently, which is not what I want, so I'm going to add more scifi elements (without changing the overall shape), plus I want it to look a lot more run down than it currently is (cracks, debris, etc.) I've already started adding some in this last update.
I think you may be right about the cables though, so I'll experiment with some other things, although I think I will add other blue things just because I like the color combination of blue and red/yellow.
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/18c.jpg
I really like working on this peice so I want to make it look as good as I can, and I think I can do better especially with all the time I've invested so far. Comments and critique are as always welcome.

[TobyArt]

Keep it up! This is looking really good! I agree with you on the cable removal choice, the colors did look great together, but the sheer brightness of them took away from the main character a bit. You may be able to use the brighter blue color as ..... lighting on something in the back ground? Step lights between platforms? cows with blue light sabers? no clue..
My only crit currently would be be careful of all the hard black lines in the set. He has no black lines anywhere on him (good thing) so the edges of the platforms wouldn't either. It seems to make him feel a bit blurry.

Good stuff, keep it up!

[Algorithmic]

Zyrinx- Thanks! I tried to tone down the black lines a bit more. Haha cows with blue light sabers... sounds good :)

UPDATE:
I was playing around with the colors and got this, it's more stylized than I originally planned but I like the color combination. I still have some more things to add, such as more rubble, and fix his cape. But other than that I think I'm almost finished. Any opinions, critique, comments, on this latest update would be great :)

http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/WIP22.jpg

[Algorithmic]

UPDATE:
Sorry I'm taking such a long time for such small updates, but my school work takes priority so I rarely have time to work on this.

I decided I didn't really like the complete two color gradient so I toned it down a lot. Added some more rubble details, wall textures, etc. I still need to refine the rubble/tubes add more, and redo the blue stuff, so that it looks like it is snaking across the surface rather than just being an overlay. Comments would be gladly appreciated.
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/wip24.jpg

[DArcy1]

OK, I can agree with the more detailed rubble etc even though I liked the simplicity of the last background; it makes more sense and looks better. I just can't get my head around the blue background (although I love the lines etched into the background walls). He's also a lot more washed out now; for me a lot of the power and intensity of your original image has slipped away, which bugs me of course because I just loved the oct 5th version.

D.

[Algorithmic]

D'Arcy- I understand about the focus of the piece being the character and so the intensity of the oct 5th version would have accentuated that. However I really don't like the background being so empty and plain, and no matter what I do I think I'm going to be ending up with huge areas that are just black (which I want to avoid).... so, do you think that something like this where the character is sharpened , the background is less prominent and no blue would be better? even though their would be more empty space...

http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/wip25.jpg
And If anyone else has an oppinion also I'd really love to hear it. :)

[DArcy1]

Hi

I agree with you about too much black space. I had a hard time articulating what I thought would improve this, so a quick paintover - basically I put the 2 images into photoshop, erased the middle of the newer image so the old intense orange showed through. I also cut and pasted some of your background just to fill in the black space. In the end this does come down to your own artistic preferences though ! :D

D.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3287/2959549981_7965f27bf2_o.jpg

[TobyArt]

Good to see the updates! Personally your last update, the thing coming up in the middle is really distracting, I look at that, not him. Also the blue tubes are also a big distractor from your character. I really liked the 10-18 update. I bit more contrast may help with the washed feeling, but the lighting on the bg was really cool and it got that color mix you were aiming for.

Keep it up!

[jemf]

Hey!:) Very nice painting indeed, especially considering you're new at this:bounce: Seriously - your skills are crazy... However for me it looks like the right leg is wrong. It just seems short and not behind him, as you intend to do? Since I'm nowhere near being a good painter myself, I can hardly give any advice on how to fix this, but to maybe add a bit more shadow to the right leg perhaps? But keep up the good work, always love to see how an image progresses!

[DArcy1]

Hi Zyrinx

that last one was me not Algorythmic - a paintover - sorry for the confusion!!

D'Arcy

[Algorithmic]

Thanks for all the replies everyone :)

DArcy1- Thanks for the paint over and everything :) I decided to just keep going with the 10-18 update though because I think adding anything to the foreground to fill in the black would probably take away from the character a bit more, to get rid of some of the black I'm just going to cut off a bit from the top and bottom (like in this update), and maybe add a few other details once I work that out. Plus I added a stronger orange color to the ground beneath him like you suggested.

Zyrinx- Thanks Zyrinx! added some contrast and a bunch of other stuff, thanks for the vote of confidence on that color palette.

jemf- Thanks for the complement jemf! :)
Are you sure you mean his right leg?... because his right leg isn't supposed to be behind him or he'd be falling forward. It's slightly in front of him, just like it would be if he was walking forward. The reason both legs are short is because the left is lifted up behind him and the right is slightly bent in front of him (foreshortening) . Just look at yourself walking forward in a mirror and you'll see what I mean. I added some shadows and highlights to this last update so hopefully it looks a bit clearer.

UPDATE:
I just need to add and fiix the rubble in the lower left corner, refine the tubes and I think I'll be done. Sorry updates are so infrequent, remember the actual picture is pretty big: 3000x2400 with 300dpi so even the little bit of rubble in the left corner will be larger than most moniters, which is why the updates are taking so long. I want to keep the high detail level even when zoomed in to 100% plus I have school which takes priority.

http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/wip26.jpg

let me know what you think :)

[Helenlyn]

Though I've not been posting, I have been following the progress of this thread, and it is very nice.

Glancing at your latest update, something weird caught my eye. It looks as though he's almost holding the tiers behind him, since the way they're placed makes it look like they're coming out of his hand. This is a very minor thing; At my second glance this illusion was cleared up. It's not imminent that you try to fix this, but it's very simple (especially if you have the tiers on a separate layer than the wings). Just make the edge of the tier darker right there, and there won't be a chance of mistaking the tiers for poles that he's holding.

Or maybe my eyes just see things REALLY weird.

Again, good job!

[jemf]

By "the right leg" I meant it from my point of view:) It's his left leg I'm talking about:)

[DArcy1]

Hi again

Very nice, definitely almost finished. This has come very, very far from your 1st post (which to my chagrin I ignored several times!) I love the blue patterns in the background. Those lavender worms stick out like a sore thumb, though :D.

Congratulations !!

D'Arcy

[Algorithmic]

Helenlyn-Thanks, I darkened the tier a bit.
jemf- ah, I altered the shadows on his leg so it'd be a bit clearer, thanks
DArcy1- Hey DArcy1, Thanks a lot man! haha, yeah looking back at the sketches in my first post, They really look almost nothing like what I have now.:D I toned down the saturation and brightness of those tubes also, so hopefully they blend in better now. :wip:

UPDATE: drum roll please..... I'm Finally Finished!! (took me long enough right hahaha) :)

http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o343/Algorithmic/bdaypresentdesktopsize.jpg

If anyone still has any advice or comments for this version I'd be more than glad to hear them, better now than later right :D
A big thanks to everyone who commented and helped me with this picture, especially DArcy1 !!

[DArcy1]

You need to be seriously proud of yourself. Your friend is going to be so pleased. This has gone from a concept so generic as to be coma-inducing, to something really unique. If I saw it on a book cover I would definitely stop and take a second look to see the story behind the image.


D'Arcy

[TobyArt]

Looks fantastic! Great job! My only crit would be drop the brightness on the spiderwebs on the edges just a bit, lowering the opacity may work, it seems to draw the eye off the main subject. It looks fantastic though, can't wait to see your next one!:applause:

[Algorithmic]

DArcy1- Thanks a lot DArcy1, glad you think it came out well :)
Zyrinx- Thank you so much :) I lowered the opacity on the left webs to match the right webs better (I edited my first and last post with the new version).


Edit: just submitted the final pic to my portfolio :D here's a link: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=133&t=694164

[Penguinus]

You must be kidding -.-!!
Second Painting? awesome dude.

[mosoul]

Congratulation, amazing wings. But i think it would be even better if u would crop the image on its width to get rid of the empty space ;)

[Algorithmic]

Penguinus- lol, Thanks :) yep second painting :D
mosoul- Thanks :) I thought of doing that, but in the end I just decided to go with this, I put a lot work into the sides as well anyway.

[pradhuman]

impressive work man

[pradhuman]

Impressive work. That fire effect and its lighting gr8. hummm i like ur work style and wud love to see more from you realy. characterization with a witch or preach with this effect is what i want to see more. a character with a story behind his face. this one looks amature to me wont take scene beauty where it shud reach. it need some expresions and some impresive face work. as face plays an imp part it will make this thing cooler. if the character wud b like some thing a mixture of hagrid with a face with wrinkles which shows his experiance over the ages and fat over body. old clothes with dust and threaded clothes it cud b a mixture of hagrid and a very little redindian then it will smell cooler. well m new to cgsociety and dont want to make a negetive imp in the first meet so everything above is what i feel. ur work is gr8 man like to see more from u buddy. i started a character and will post my first thread today only. catch ya buddy.

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