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pixelmonk
06-03-2003, 11:54 AM
I thought the stuck-up snobs at Highend would NEVER.. EVER.. allow that. I rememeber asking them before why programs like Lightwave weren't included on the list. I was told it wasn't "high end" enough. I guess Discreet flashed enough advertisement dollars and Highend whored itself out. Good job!

:bounce:

robinson
06-03-2003, 12:09 PM
ROFL
Discreet "high end", I don' think they are talking about 3d max...:curious:

wgreenlee1
06-03-2003, 12:14 PM
Money talks,bullsh*t walks.

Newtek cant or wont spend on promotion so they lose out.
They do have a good enough rep to go without it but a little more would help.

robinson
06-03-2003, 12:20 PM
All this „high end“ talk is bullsh.. anyway, all 3D tools are used high end in some movie or whatever....
But there is sure some money talk, especially from all these tie wearing discreet guys...:p

samartin
06-03-2003, 12:27 PM
Discreet, maybe in a few years they will be discrete within' the 3D arena... I've had the pleasure of playing with Combustion 2 and that program rocks, I think composition is their niche now...

Nicodemus
06-03-2003, 02:10 PM
Composition has been their niche with Flint, Flame, and Inferno. 3D is new to them.....I mean they only bought Max a few years ago.

From what I understand advertising on Highend is something you have to pay for. I do agree that Newtek need to look into where they are spending though. Dropping some cash on highend and also on 3dbuzz would be good things. I know that Newtek has already said that money for this years marketing has already been allocated so they really can't jump onto either of those things right now. Still, I do hope they are giving serious consideration to both. Both places are resources that people new to 3D end up at. So having a presence in both/either one would be good for them.

~L~

CIM
06-03-2003, 02:21 PM
Newtek (or someone) should start a site called midend3d.com! That way Lightwave and other mid-end software programs can all play together!

UserDelta
06-03-2003, 02:27 PM
heh, now lets see when cinema 4d makes their list...

proton
06-03-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by CIM
Newtek (or someone) should start a site called midend3d.com! That way Lightwave and other mid-end software programs can all play together!


It's great to see "midend" software being used in:

Daredevil
The Matrix Reloaded
-The Matrix Revolutions
Holes
Auto Focus
Black Hawk Down
Blade 2
Brotherhood of the Wolf
Collateral Damage
Death To Smoochy
FoodFight!
Half Past Dead
Halloween: Resurrection
Hart's War
Impostor
Jane Goodall's Wild Chimpanzees (Imax)
Kung Pow! Enter the Fist
Master of Disguise
No Good Deed
Panic Room
Pluto Nash
Race To Space
Rollerball
* Scooby Doo
Star Trek: Nemesis
Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones
The Time Machine
Undercover Brother
XXX
A.I.: Artificial Intelligence
(pre-vis)
Behind Enemy Lines
Black Knight
Bones
* Corky Romano
Driven
Final Fantasy
(modeling)
Going Back
Jason X
Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius
Jurassic Park III
(pre-vis)
Kate and Leopold
Max Keeble's Big Move
Megiddo: The Omega Code 2
Monsters, Inc.
(modeling)
Scary Movie 2
Spy Kids
The One
The Others
3000 Miles to Graceland
Battlefield Earth
The Cell
(modeling)
Charlie's Angels
Dracula 2000
Dungeons and Dragons
Final Destination
Gladiator
How the Grinch Stole Christmas
Little Nicky
Mission to Mars
(pre-vis)
O Brother, Where Art Thou?
Pitch Black
Red Planet
Rules of Engagement
Scary Movie
Supernova
The Sixth Day
Supernova
X-Men

to name a few movies......and:

Access Hollywood (NBC)
Ally McBeal (Fox)
Babylon 5 (synd/TNT)
(1993 Visual Effects Emmy Award Winner)
Baywatch (synd)
* Buffy The Vampire Slayer (UPN)
Butt-Ugly Martians (Nickelodeon)
Charmed (WB)
Children of Dune
Crusade (TNT)
Dan Dare (UK)
Dark Angel (Fox)
Dark Skies (NBC)
Dawson's Creek (WB)
Dexter's Lab (Cartoon Network)
Enterprise (UPN)
Family Guy (Fox)
Firefly (Fox)
Gary and Mike (UPN)
Hercules: The Legendary Journeys (synd)
Hypernauts (ABC)
Invader Zim (Nickelodeon)
I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus (really schmaltzy Christmas TV movie from 2001 - used the stock Spacefighters scene as a sequence of the kid's favorite TV show, may have done some original animation as well)
Justice League (Cartoon Network)
Jimmy Neutron (Nickelodeon)
Mad About You (NBC)
Max Steel (WB)
Mystic Knights of Tir Na Nog (Fox)
NASCAR Racers (Fox)
NightMan (synd)


to name a few tv shows.....and:

Blood: The Last Vampire
Blue Submarine Number Six
End of Evangelion
Metropolis
* Panzer Dragoon
Sakura Taisen


to name a few Anime......and:

Doom 3
Anno 1503
* Blood Omen 2
Carnivore 3
Dead to Rights
Unreal Championship
Serious Sam: Second Encounter
Anachronox
Barbie Pet Rescue
Civilization III
Halo
Mechwarrior 4: Black Knight
Resident Evil: Code Veronica X
Serious Sam


to name a few games.....not bad for what you call "Mid-end:.......

Listening to the guys at Digital Domain, S4 studios, Pixel Magic, UFO Films, Area 51 and other companies....it sounds like they would consider LW as High End......but maybe it's just them....

Flywaver
06-03-2003, 02:44 PM
I posted that PR yesterday but was really not happy about it! :annoyed:

This is just another PR that is far from reflecting reality! :thumbsdow

Cheers!

C. Brizon
06-03-2003, 02:45 PM
I don't see why it should matter.. Highend3D has always seemed a bit sparse to me, and don't forget I use XSI and Maya just as much as LW these days, if companies have to pay just to get noticed, then what does it say about their software huh? :) Lightwave is clearly well known enough in those groups that matter, if Highend3d don't want to know then thats their look out, its hardly gonna be a disaster for Newtek, they don't need to pay just to get noticed, everyone knows about them already, so why waste money on a site that to be honest, is pretty shit compared to others in the same league. Think about it, when have the XSI, Maya or Houdini users gone to that site looking for something, and not been able to find it, happens an awful lot, and I quit going there for that very reason, they had plenty of catagories, but very little in them, sure, looks big on the outside but go in for a bit and its pretty empty considering how "important" they seem to think they are :)

ThirdEye
06-03-2003, 02:48 PM
3DS Max is really hi end, it costs a fortune :cool: :D

policarpo
06-03-2003, 02:49 PM
Highend is Noend to the BeEnd of 3D.:beer:

keep waving!

E_Moelzer
06-03-2003, 03:26 PM
And:

Dune miniseries
Star Trek: Voyager
Star Trek: Deep Space 9
Starship Troopers: The animated Series
Space: Above and Beyond
Seaquest DSV
Viper
Battlestar Galactica (new miniseries, not yet released)
Voyage of the Unicorn (miniseries)
Titanic (miniseries)

To name a few more TV- series and:

Hulk
Python
Pythons
Deep Core
Escape: Under Pressure
Velocity Trapp
Titanic
Blade
Armageddon
Event Horizon
Lost in Space
Total reality
Storm
Falcon down
Shark Hunter
Dragon Fighter
Spy Kids2
James Bond: tomorrow never dies
James Bond: Goldeneye

To name a few more Movies and:

Tecnomage
Anno1602
Heavy Metal Fakk2
Daikatana
Ridge Racer (intro)
Allone in the Dark 4 (intro)
James Bond (intro)
V- Rally (intro)
Urban Chaos(intro)
Nomad Soul (intro)

to name a few more games...
I could name a bunch more if I tried harder to remember them, as well as countless commercials but I am a bit lazy today.
CU
Elmar

MorBioS
06-03-2003, 03:32 PM
I would like have same plugins and scripts that big studios created to work with lw in the movies...:buttrock:

Chuck Baker
06-03-2003, 03:46 PM
All forms of presence for a 3D manufacturer on Highend3D are dependent on the manufacturer purchasing ads or PR or presence in some form. They charge for posting press releases, for example, at $200 per release last I checked. News sites do not require pay to carry news. They either find it worthwhile to report to their readership, or they don't. HighEnd is not a news site, but rather very strictly an advertising site. That's a legitimate business, certainly, but our philosophy is not to pay for public relations and news coverage.

robinson
06-03-2003, 04:08 PM
Sorry,

this movie lists are also bullsh.., sometimes it seems to me like there is just one list for all these 3d Programs.
This is just marketing, and everybody knows that max and maya are the 3D marketing gurus...

Maya
http://www.aliaswavefront.com/en/products/maya/filmandvideo.shtml
Houdini
http://www.sidefx.com/products/profiles/index.html
XSI
http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/v3/film/
MAX
http://www.discreet.com/products/3dsmax/3dsmax_visualeffects.html#

All these programs are “high end”, or maybe after the next sentence you even say there is NO “high end” software.
You can’t work on a big production with just one tool, they are all used together.

So what’s important for us ???
We can almost do what ever we want to do, with all these awesome 3d tools….
There is just a price and a workflow difference….

TRick
06-03-2003, 04:26 PM
Three time I wasted a lot of money:

1. from 3D Studio R4 to MAX 1
2. from MAX 1 to MAX 2
3. from MAX 2 to MAX 3

That's about $3K (in Europe)

Before I upgrade to the last version, another small $2K, I think I buy another LW License, just for fun...


...Don't get me wrong, MAX is a good program (looking like a Microsoft piece of art though)...

We just don't stand on the same feet...

rock
06-03-2003, 05:17 PM
I think that if you include Lightwave in the Highend, physically or symbolically, you must also include Cinema4D. I consider Cinema4D is in the same class as Lightwave. But some may argue for others: Animation Master, TrueSpace3D. And then, Poser and Bryce 3D will claim it. The whole opensource software from Art of Illusion to Blender. And then, it might trickle down to Microsoft NotePad because NotePad was used in all of the Matrix movies: Matrix 1, Matrix Squared, and Matrix Cube. :)

Nicodemus
06-03-2003, 05:28 PM
Just so we are clear I think of Lightwave as being firmly in the Highend arena. Newtek obviously has their Marketing dollars allocated to the areas that will benefit it the most.

~L~

E_Moelzer
06-03-2003, 05:42 PM
Hey Robisnon, why do you consider the lists bullshit?
I even know some of the people that worked on one or the other of the movies in the list. So please tell me why the list is bullshit, thanks.
CU
Elmar

robinson
06-03-2003, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by E_Moelzer
Hey Robisnon, why do you consider the lists bullshit?
I even know some of the people that worked on one or the other of the movies in the list. So please tell me why the list is bullshit, thanks.
CU
Elmar
Don't get me wrong...

You should read my text, sure it’s true that Lightwave was used for these movies, but not JUST Lightwave.
I think Lightwave is HIGH END, I agree with that, but which toll isn’t high end ?

Sorry I forgot Cinema 4D, it was used on Daredevil…

btw Lightwave was used for THE PIANIST too, like max and maya..:D

wgreenlee1
06-03-2003, 06:04 PM
THE PIANIST too,

BLAH!!!!!!!

Dont make me barf,the Pianist was crap and written by crappy people,its no wonder hollywood loved it so.

leigh
06-03-2003, 06:11 PM
I think the whole term "high end" is bullshit anyway. It's just an elitist term that people use to make themselves feel more important. I mean, you can use Maya or XSI and still make a big pile of crap if you are a useless artist, and yet these guys still call themselves "high end". Yeah, high end mishapen blobs of models.

Quite frankly, I couldn't give a damn whether the apps I use are high end or low end or mid end or rear end - if they provide me with the tools that I need to get the job done, then I really don't care what the "rank" of it is.

Q-Bert119
06-03-2003, 06:13 PM
No one should support that site in any way. I actually ran the lightwave part of that site before it was highend3d.com. Soon after I removed it do to my lack of time to make updates it was stolen from a good friend of mine who trusted the wrong person to register their new (highend3D.com) domain names in both of their names. So through very shady practices in domain name registration my friend had his site and all his content stolen from him. When his name was not on the registrar. They are not to be trusted in anyway.

Also the sites original idea was based on SGI software hence the term High-end. No Pc software was going to be supported. This is now not as applicable as almost all 3d software on any platform is more advanced than the most "high-end" software of the time this name was registered.

Remi
06-03-2003, 07:29 PM
they're high on themselves...I visited that site a long time ago and vowed never to do it again....the site simply sucks and they don't really do anything for 3d....at all. Just another wasted url if you ask me....blah.....Lightwave to the core and if the list proton put on here doesn't make you open your eyes then you're a putz......and if you want to call it "midend" go ahead...i'm proud to be apart of it...especially when we make things that blow the "highend" stuff out of the water....my .02:)

CTRL+X
06-03-2003, 07:55 PM
I didnt realize anyone even went to highend.com anymore.

johnnyh66
06-03-2003, 08:12 PM
I use it for the job board... not that many LW jobs are posted there. We need more LW jobs!!!:hmm:

Remi
06-03-2003, 08:33 PM
go to flay then....:thumbsup: and do more research...there's tons of LW jobs out there....:)

Mazer
06-03-2003, 09:04 PM
Highend3d is actualy a very good place to find mel scripts paintfx brushes shaders etc, its like a flay.com for maya users, the forums are also quite useful. I agree with the highend being a elitism crap though... But you know if you spent 12k buying Xsi or Maya before the price cut, you had to call it highend even just to make you feel right...

The this movie used X or this game used Y is a common marketing strategy and we should now better, most studios use a multitude of tools, and many of them use proprietary software so what's the point? Is LW any better because it was used in a very specific task (R2D2 i believe) in StarWars? Would it be any worst if it wasn't used? Maya is used at Pixar, but probably isn't more than 30% of the pipeline, You can most probably find some LW artists there too, just do as they do, use wat fits you most for the job at hand, LW elitism is just as stupid as Highend elitism.

Remi
06-03-2003, 09:26 PM
I suppose...but why single out programs then...we're not doing it here...highend is...so go tell them that and see what they say....you'll get a nice letter from them i'm sure...:shrug:

Mazer
06-03-2003, 09:46 PM
Hehehe, I better not, you now the distinction between Highend apps and the others might be explained looking some years in the past, the power animator and soft 3d times were those apps only runed on Sgi workstations and costed a fortune, Max and Lw where runing on Pcs and amigas and costed about the same as they cost now, so they where considered midhend tools, also Lw and Max where very far beyond Soft3d and Maya/power animator back then (so they told me..), things have changed alot but people from this period still make the assumption that Maya and softimage are so mutch more powerful than the others, I worked with one of these guys...

edit: BTW, why are you all green? Its a sort of Cim clan or something ?:D

Remi
06-03-2003, 09:57 PM
Go here (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66668) to find out

lwbob
06-03-2003, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by proton
It's great to see "midend" software being used in:

FoodFight!
Kung Pow! Enter the Fist
Master of Disguise
* Scooby Doo
Bones
Spy Kids
Battlefield Earth
Dungeons and Dragons
Supernova

Baywatch (synd)
Butt-Ugly Martians (Nickelodeon)
Hercules: The Legendary Journeys

to name a few games.....not bad for what you call "Mid-end:.......


Some mighty fine picks there. Some of those are like GM taking credit for a someone running down pedestrians in their car.

lwbob
06-03-2003, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by E_Moelzer
And:

Dune miniseries
Star Trek: Voyager
Star Trek: Deep Space 9

Much better picks :thumbsup:

lwbob
06-03-2003, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by Q-Bert119
No one should support that site in any way. I actually ran the lightwave part of that site before it was highend3d.com.

It IS funny that they have no problem dislpaying LightWave renders in their gallery. That great Jack Daniels bottle render is on there.

rock
06-04-2003, 12:23 AM
I used Microsoft NotePad on every software project that I have been involved in. Everytime I need to jot down some quick notes or view a small readme file, I pop it up. It's light and convenient. It's nice to know that it was also used in the Matrix trilogy workflow. Now that's highend. :thumbsup:

Rock

wgreenlee1
06-04-2003, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by lwbob
Some mighty fine picks there. Some of those are like GM taking credit for a someone running down pedestrians in their car.


LOL!!!!

ThirdEye
06-04-2003, 01:25 AM
This is just my opinion but... There are only a few differences between apps like C4D or Lw and apps like XSI or Maya:

1) better connection with "important" renderers (Prman and MRay)

2) better animation, simulation and CA tools

3) better scripting

4) more advanced plugins available (like digital nature tools or syflex for example)

5) nurbs


All these things are worth their price if you work for a huge studio, they're not if you are freelance or you have a small team imho. Remember that XSI costs many times more than Lw and Mray licences are expensive as well.

CAClark
06-04-2003, 03:29 PM
Are there any movies at all that are confirmed to have used one single application for all VFX? I doubt it somehow as many apps have their own strengths (and weaknesses).

Cheers!

MCronin
06-05-2003, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by CAClark
Are there any movies at all that are confirmed to have used one single application for all VFX? I doubt it somehow as many apps have their own strengths (and weaknesses).

Cheers!

The only one I can think of was Jason X which I'm pretty sure was 100% done with Maya.

JMarc
06-05-2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by MCronin
The only one I can think of was Jason X which I'm pretty sure was 100% done with Maya.

...and some LightWave!

johnnyh66
06-05-2003, 08:41 PM
Jimmy Neutron?

CAClark
08-16-2005, 04:16 PM
Jimmy Neutron?

I was thinking more live action movies, but yeah, JN I guess would be one, ice age maybe too.

Cheers!

c-g
08-16-2005, 05:11 PM
Wow, someone was digging for threads. :)

Neutron's characters were animated in messiah (the plugin version) inside LW. Vehilces and volumterics/particles were LW. Compositing was in fusion I think. Texturing was photoshop/painter/some darktree/along with LW's procedurals.

The series shifted to a Maya based pipeline.

Signal2Noise
08-16-2005, 06:19 PM
"...AND THE WINNER FOR THE MOST OBSCURE THREAD RESURRECTION AWARD GOES TO..."

:eek:

R-6
08-16-2005, 11:06 PM
lol ...good read thou :twisted: Yer maybe they should change their site name to

"HI-Price3d.com" :deal:

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