OpenGL problem in Maya5

[trthing]

I have a visually similar problem when I apply 3d textures to polygons with extruded faces (only in Maya 5 too, 4.5 works fine).

Did you solve your problem?

Any help will be welcomed!

[williamslijp]

I have this kind of problem also when use layer shader

[Atwooki]

Vaniljus:

If I use the default resulution on a texture connected to a shaders colour the object will display ok. But when I change it to display a 256*256 texture the display will look strange.


Have exactly the same problem....
This seems to be a VERY common problem with many users, and yet Alias, user groups etc. (in my experience) have found no solid solution, as yet....

Hmmm... :curious:

Atwooki

[williamslijp]

and other problem,
I cant get right geometry mask in hardware render buffer when use layer shader

[trthing]

This can't be!
It used to work fine in 4.5!!!
I tried to use every trick I saw in the forums: nothing works!
Reinstall Maya, update BIOS, video drivers, convert to subdiv and back, tweak normals, Softquadro you name it!

And funny enough, it works fine if the original object is a poly torus: did you tried that?

Did anybody filed a bug report at Alias?:D

[beaker]

Just use the certified drivers that a/w specify's. Newest are not always the most stable.

[beaker]

Are you guys talking about how the texture is stretched or how some of the faces are transparent/overlapping backfaces?

[trthing]

Second option!
check image: crater texture

[swag]

i have the same problem here

[Renderizer]

There are even more bugs in Maya 5. :banghead:

I have experienced the same OGL issue before, but there's another thing that's (literally) bugging me:

Have you tried to export some NURBS surfaces as dxf and then reimport them?

Doesn't work anymore - the dxf import is broken in Maya 5! :argh:

Using the dwgTranslator.mll doesn't help either.

This seems to be just another common problem with Maya 5... :annoyed:

Out with the bug spray!

Renderizer

[trthing]

And Quadro 750XGL 43.51 is ok with Maya 5 Qualification charts!

[Renderizer]

I don't think that this is an issue with OpenGL drivers. It's 'just' another Maya 5 bug.

I have also noticed that Maya 5 can't remember my hardware texturing settings (eg. resolution, channel).


Renderizer

[trthing]

Didn't anybody get any fix for this?

[Atwooki]

I'd like to know what hardware those WITHOUT this problem are using.....

or perhaps divulge to the rest of us the fix ;)

Atwooki

[trthing]

Exactly! I would go for that hardware...:thumbsup:

[mark_wilkins]

I believe that this bug is a problem with many driver/hardware combinations, and has been reported.

All the studios I know of are holding off on 5.0 for now and waiting for 5.0.1.

Unfortunately, if you have to buy new licenses, Alias will only sell you 5.0, but if you buy a new 5.0 license and still have the old install disk, you can install and run the 4.5 application on a machine with a valid 5.0 license. The only headache is that you can't get new 4.5 installation media.

-- Mark

[trthing]

That is nice!

One doubt I have is: in situations like this, if you have Maya 5.0 and do not have paid support are you entitled to a 5.0.1 download or Alias would charge you for that?

Thnx

[Renderizer]

I believe it's free of charge.

When I bought Maya 4, it was version 4.0.2, without the maintanance contract, yet I was able to download 4.0.3 (for which there was no need, by the way, as the only added feature was on-line registration).

But to be honest, me thinks that Alias will give us a brand new Maya 5.5 or even v6 instead of any 5.0.x release.

[mark_wilkins]

One doubt I have is: in situations like this, if you have Maya 5.0 and do not have paid support are you entitled to a 5.0.1 download or Alias would charge you for that?

Bug fix updates (as 5.0.1 would be) are provided for free. All that's required is that you register as a Community Member, which costs nothing.

You can see a list of current software updates by going to

www.alias.com

clicking on Support at the top of the page and then choosing the Maya link. In the second column near the top of the page you should see "Software Updates."

-- Mark

[trthing]

Thanks Mark, for the clarifications.
Since you were so kind as to explain me that, could you go a little further and tell me (a new Alias customer) which is the tradition when it comes to bug fixes?
Do they usually move fast to sort out the issues or not?
Do they usually wait and release a major new version (e.g. 6.0)including the bug fixes and charge for that?

And Renderizer: didn't see a 4.0.3 update on the support pages. Did they take it off?

Thanks again!

[Renderizer]

Hmmm - good question. I'm sure it was there, but now there's only Maya 4.0.2...is that the missing link?

[mark_wilkins]

Do they usually move fast to sort out the issues or not?


They move as slowly as they can justify.


Do they usually wait and release a major new version (e.g. 6.0)including the bug fixes and charge for that?


If there's a new major release coming up, then bug fixes may be held off for it, but that's true with any software I've ever used.

If you have a critical need (critical enough to spend the $$) to get fixes to problems, you probably should go on full maintenance, which is between $1200 and $1900 yearly and includes all upgrades, minor and major.

If you have a REALLY critical need and real $$$$$ (hundreds of thousands at least) then Custom Engineering is the best way to get your bugs fixed on your schedule, not Alias's. I assume that you probably won't go that route...

-- Mark

[trthing]

As a matter of fact I am under the extended support period (it will end soon, but will retain one-event support)). No, I do not have any critical need to get them fixed. Last but not least, I really find this one (OpenGL issue) VERY annoying and I am quite surprised they let this very simple, apparently very common and reproduceable, non-existent on 4.5, bug get through on 5.0 and do not have a tiny, simple patch to take care of that: and fast. Of course, I am assuming that this is not a new issue for them (considering it used to work perfectly on 4.5); it is not like a new, advanced feature: they got to be the OpenGL masters of universe. I browse through all the solutions and forum (e_support) discussions and see no sign that a patch is coming.
I understand that if I call support they will probably try to take care of the problem but I somehow, maybe unjustifiedly, get this bad feeling when a glitch like this, so "in your face", does not get fixed ASAP and the solution made available to everybody.
Would it be possible that they already solved that for someone else and didn't "broadcast" the solution?
And please understand, I am not in a position to criticize Alias nor it is my intention (phenomenal guys and company, as far as I know): I am only trying to understand "how stuff works". Every company has its ways... I guess

Thnx :thumbsup:

[mark_wilkins]

Well, I'd call support and report it, if it were me, as long as I had unlimited support calls on my contract.

-- Mark

[trthing]

Well, that's, most unfortunately, not the case... ;)

Which brings us other questions:

1- Was it fixed for someone who paid for unlimited support and they didn't make it available to others?

2- Is it true that nobody who has unlimited support is facing this bug? Which is the "correct hardware/software combination" they are using to avoid the glitch?

3- Isn't there anybody out there that has unlimited support and is a good soul that could keep us posted on the developments of the solution for this bug?

4- Not much people care about this problem and I have poorly spent everyone else's time (including mine) writing all this? So live with that, right? hehe...

OK. I'm outta here. Thanks for your time!

:blush:

[mark_wilkins]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that some people are getting the fix and you aren't. That's probably not the case -- all a support contract would get you is the right to complain.

-- Mark

[trthing]

Mark,

Please, do not get me wrong: I don't feel that you implied this, no Sir! Your answers are very important and I do feel grateful that you took the time to read the posts and respond. Especially you, who wrote a book that became a reference to many of us.

As I stressed on a previous message, I am here trying to learn and understand the procedures about bug fixing and the reasons for the absence of a fast solution (at least to my knowledge).

Thanks again

[Atwooki]

Re: trthing:

3- Isn't there anybody out there that has unlimited support and is a good soul that could keep us posted on the developments of the solution for this bug?

now THAT would be nice ;)

Atwooki

[mark_wilkins]

Well, I don't have any special insight into Alias's development, but the reasons bug fixes are slow in software development in general are:

* Keeping the number of releases down reduces the vendor's costs to support them because it means there are fewer configurations out there and less testing load.

* Not every bug can be fixed. A package like Maya has LOTS of bugs and a modest group of developers, so bugs are probably ranked by severity and tackled in order. This bug you're talking about is pretty severe, so it's likely it's near the top of the list, but who knows?

* Once a bug is chosen to fix, it takes time to find a solution, usually there are tradeoffs about fixes or a fix is difficult to implement well, and then it has to be tested thoroughly. Certain bugs may require a lot of engineering to fix, in which case they'll have to skip a release or two just to get the work done.

* Finally (and sometimes I feel this is where Alias could do better) there's the issue of trading off bug fixes against new features -- new features sell upgrades, bug fixes generally don't, so there's great pressure on the developers to focus more on new features than on bug fixes to existing features. However, once bugs are sufficiently severe (as some might argue has been the case with 5.0) this logic doesn't work as well, because people talk about how buggy the software is, obviously something Alias wants to avoid.

* Another wrinkle specific to the Alias situation is that several large companies have custom engineering relationships with Alias that get their fixes pushed to the top of the priority list, and these fixes generally make it into future public releases of the program -- the bad news is that their priorities may not match up with yours, but the good news is that the features and fixes that come from this avenue are often really useful in actual production.

Hope that provides a little perspective into how these things work.

-- Mark

[trthing]

Oh, absolutely: helps a lot!

And all those pressures you mentioned are somewhat legit. It is very understandable and if I were on the same position I would probably do the same.

And I too have some experience representing software solutions and maintenance and I agree that if you charge or lag to fix bugs you created in the first place, especially severe, obvious ones (not able to classify them as "features" as would Dogbert/Dilbert suggest) your customers will have something to say to you :thumbsdow

BTW, aren't you with 5.0?

[mark_wilkins]

I just bought a 5.0 license for home use, but mostly I'm on 4.5.

-- Mark

[trthing]

May I ask if you are having the same problem with your home configuration?

[Renderizer]

As I said before: there are more annoying bugs in Maya 5...like the dxf import/export issue. (http://www.highend3d.com/boards/showflat.php?Cat=1,2&Board=mayageneral&Number=154034&page=1&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=all).

[mark_wilkins]

I don't have 5.0 yet, but anyway it wouldn't be that informative as I'll be running it on Mac OS X on probably unqualified hardware.

As for DXF being a problem, I imagine that's irritating, if you rely on DXF.

-- Mark

[Renderizer]

Yes. The DXF export/import route used to come in handy if you needed to clean any wayward NURBS surfaces. Gone...

[beaker]

Originally posted by mark_wilkins
Bug fix updates (as 5.0.1 would be) are provided for free. All that's required is that you register as a Community Member, which costs nothing.

Unfortunatly Alias doesn't put all bug fixes up on their site. Many are available only to people on support. There have been many point releases out and you call up a/w and they say they fixed it but it is only avaliable to people who have "experienced" that specific problem. Also any many times there are bug fixes for studios that stay on a specific version for long lengths of time that come out around the time of a new release of maya(like 4.03 came out a month or two before 5.0 shipped) Back before they put the bug updates on the site they would mail the cd to support customers. Maya 2.5 had like 6-7 bug updates and they didnt even send the 3-4 of them to anyone unless you called up and asked about them. So Alias assumes that everyone will be upgrading so why put up the bug fixes. Unless you ask for it you would never new it was out.

[Renderizer]

So, for people who can't afford a maintanance contract (just like me, for that matter), these bug fixes are out of reach?

To be honest, I don't like this kind of politics.

If you pay for a software, you should get a working, stable product, and be able to receive all the necessary patches (if it needs any) without having to beg for it.

[mark_wilkins]

They're not out of reach, you just have to ask for them.

Keep your eyes on these forums and talk to people and you'll be fine.

-- Mark

[trthing]

Did anybody get any news regarding this issue from Alias or other users?

Any workaround available besides converting to file?

Thnx

[de_tomato]

Well, my opinion might be bias.. so heres my 2 cents.

I have been working with some 3d packages before. So heres my experience with the Support from the Dev.

Max: they are fast, but most of the time, they dont have the fix right away. But they will keep you up-to-date on whats they are working on. This make you feel improtant.

XSI: I can say that they have a great support team. If you log a bug report, they will get to you a fix via QFE in few days. But they only released this QFE only to those who 'expereinced' it. So you wont find any in their website.

Maya: They take too long to fix it. They was one bug where they take few weeks to get it fix, but by that time, our projects are done. I think A|W can do better than that. Supprt are very important.


bit sleepy here..


ciaoz.
ToMaTo

[trthing]

Since I was one that was whining around about this bug (a lot) I feel obligated to spread the word that the 5.0.1 update (available at Alias website) solved the problem (and many, many others I wasn't aware of).

Thanks Alias (it kinda took too long, yeah) and you guys that logged the bugs there and at maya.digication.

[beaker]

Originally posted by trthing
Thanks Alias (it kinda took too long, yeah) and you guys that logged the bugs there and at maya.digication.
As I said before If you actually call up Alias and tell them about this bug, there is a good chance that they allready had the 5.01 update 3-4 months ago. Just only available to people who specifically called about the bugs that were fixed in the patch.

[trthing]

I would be very disappointed if with all the noise created by this bug in
Alias/Digication/Highend3D/CGTalk forums no one would show up and say that there was a fix available. We specifically requested people here to do that kind of connection and I am taking a wild guess here that Alias people is lurking around.
I did not log a bug because others did and I posted specific comments in Alias user-to-user discussion forums as well as inside e-support forum about this subject (and I was not alone). I never got a message back from anybody in Alias or even a PM here...

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