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poplasma
08-20-2008, 11:16 PM
Hello follow CD4 users:

While I know what they do, I just wondered where those names for the shaders in CD4 come from and what they mean.
I've googled Bhodi, Banzi, Nukei, Cheen, but can't find any word origins.

Do you know? I'm curious!

poplasma

Per-Anders
08-20-2008, 11:21 PM
Those material names come from David Farmer A.K.A. Darf. Among the shaders Lumas and Proximal still bear his original names, the rest have been changed to be slightly more descriptive, e.g. Buffy was changed to Normal Direction. Several of the noise types still bear the names he gave them.

poplasma
08-20-2008, 11:33 PM
Thanks for that info.
So they are fantasy names? Or did Farmer get these from a language I'm not familiar with?

RandyLeeBlain
08-21-2008, 12:08 AM
Hr seems to have named alot of plugs after girls that had similar sounding functions. Like Jenna for an object generator. The shaders and noise seemed to have a Japanese kind of syllabic roll to a great many of his chosen names. Eccentric and at points gnarly, I am sure some of us miss Darf and the goodies he rolled out for us.

Best
Randy

Shademaster
08-21-2008, 07:49 AM
Hr seems to have named alot of plugs after girls that had similar sounding functions. Like Jenna for an object generator. The shaders and noise seemed to have a Japanese kind of syllabic roll to a great many of his chosen names. Eccentric and at points gnarly, I am sure some of us miss Darf and the goodies he rolled out for us.

Best
Randy

Yes Darf was the best. Were is he at the moment? Last thing I heard was the he wanted to get into music or something?

Erik Heyninck
08-21-2008, 10:15 AM
In those days, way back in time, when humans were rare and dinosaurs still roamed the earth, Maxon CD's were black with silver letters and numbers.

Darf was then half of Bhodinut. Bhodinut released their "Smells like Allmonds" materials suite for Cinema4D. This was a big step in opening a new world to Cinema, whose materials, then, were very limited.
Maxon acquired Smells like Allmonds, and it got integrated. In adapted versions, it is still the core of Cinema's materials.
Darf then released several other plugins, alone, or in team. He always had a very personal humour in choosing the names for his creations. Like Jenna (a precursor of Mograph etc that can still be used on pc in 10 ), Penny, Praline, Nickl (later inside of Jenna), Blunt trauma, Faecal Matter (very Freudian, lol), ...

Things have become more serious since he chose other directions that the Maxon trail, and, to be honest, I sometimes miss his anarchistic impredictability.

brammelo
08-21-2008, 01:16 PM
General advice: be carefull, tread lightly, don't open Pandora's box and leave the can o'worms tightly closed. Mentioning Darf and MAXON in one sentence is dangerous ;)

But while we are on the topic: could we please pretty please get rid of them names? How about we use this topic to pitch new names! :lightbulb

Navstar
08-21-2008, 07:15 PM
I dunno -- I like the names. They are exotic and don't sound like they were focus-grouped to death.

Some alternatives that DO sound focus grouped to death:
ClassyGlass
XtremeGlass
HyperGleam
ShimmerSheen
DuoGloss
nWood
GrainpolisH
FractMax
LustreFX
IncrediShade
InfiniMat
TextureLuxe
Material-X
Reflect-o-magic

Erik Heyninck
08-21-2008, 07:55 PM
Well, we already have coffee, expresso, mocca, etc.

So why not continue with

ceylon, earl grey, russian caravan, gunpowder, darjeeling,...

or Orval, Duvel, Palm, Westmalle, Westvleteren, Nello's blond, Patrache, Leffe,...

or Laphroaig, Ardbeg, Lagavulin, Caol Ila, Bruichladdich, Bunnahaphain, Kilchoman,...


must say them coffee names are as obscure as Darf's, but I prefer the freakout in a moonlight daydream o yeah!
SLA suits them well.

automat
08-21-2008, 08:10 PM
Too much caffeine..
I want softdrinks and Alcohols ( Coke and Vodka ;)

tomglod
08-22-2008, 08:53 AM
LOL

ya i remember there was some problems ..but its a cool history lesson on cinema 4d....Thanks for the info...

To be honest, the names sometimes anoyyed me, but i got over that... I don't use the shaders much actually...

Dtox
08-23-2008, 07:00 AM
I always wondered about this also.

And even now that I know where they came from, it still makes no sense.

The names are done creatively, yes, I get it.

But it serves no purpose except to over-complicate things.

It's so counter-intuitive that I avoid using all but the standard shader type whenever possible.
The problem is that names like these don't exist in any other app.
Other apps give their shaders names that suggest their purpose.

And when you see these names in cinema you're baffled right off the bat.
Then when you try to tinker with them, you realize that the functions of the shaders are just as baffling as the names.
I think it prevents people from utilizing the shaders to their full potential.

The functions such as lumas and proximal aren't that bad.
They have somewhat suggestive names.

But when you get ones like Nukei, cheen, Banji etc.
These names are totally unlike any words in existence.
I mean, Nukei, this shader does things like brushed metal.
But the name has nothing to do with metal.
It kind of makes you think of 'nuclear' or 'nucleus' which makes you think that it's a shader for cellular structures.
But it isn't.
And 'Banji', it makes you think of elastic or rubber, but it's actually a glass shader.
It's just retarded.

So, yeah, it's interesting and all that.
But personally I could care less about cleverly abstract names, I'd much rather have names that at least hint to the purpose they serve.
I'm surprised that Maxon hasn't changed them yet.

It makes me wonder what the logic to this is.
Are they keeping them out of respect for the creator?
Or do they just not know how counter-intuitive this is?

I think it's a big mistake on Maxons part.
It makes learning how the material system in cinema works more difficult and time consuming.
And it's evident by the post above this one that I'm not the only one who avoids these shaders or gets annoyed and frustrated by it.
I bet most people feel this way, so they just end up using the standard shader.
So there's no real reason for these other shaders to even be there unless Maxon has some interest in making the material system difficult.
It's like throwing a big piece of wood in front of a person learning to rollerblade.

I guess if you're a long time user of cinema it's not that bad.
But for new users it's just frustrating.

Katachi
08-23-2008, 07:28 AM
But when you get ones like Nukei, cheen, Banji etc.
These names are totally unlike any words in existence.

Not really. Nuke(i), destruction etc. and itīs actually made for weathered or rusted materials (surface is nuked over time), banji would be the real name of Ghandi (thin man with open mind = glass) etc. I am sure there is a distant meaning for all of them, but I agree itīs not the most intuitive. I still struggle with the volume names today. But imo there are much worse issues available to fix.

ilay
08-23-2008, 08:46 AM
Not really. Nuke(i), destruction etc. and itīs actually made for weathered or rusted materials (surface is nuked over time), banji would be the real name of Ghandi (thin man with open mind = glass) etc. I am sure there is a distant meaning for all of them, but I agree itīs not the most intuitive. I still struggle with the volume names today. But imo there are much worse issues available to fix.

Wow, Samir thanks for explanation!
Sometimes i say: not glass-mat or word "glass",... get banji and ect...

Erik Heyninck
08-23-2008, 01:07 PM
When these shaders became available, many people were fully new to 3D also, and no-one ever complained. But yes: computer was new, new terminology was preferred and invented, interfaces by creative people like Kai Krause were different, fractal apps got names like Tierazon, Dofozon,...

Apart from this, permit me to say that I find you are exaggerating.
Most of the SLA shaders have very common names: Noise, Brightness and Contrast, Fusion, Colorizer, Distorter, FallOff, Fresnel, Gradient, Hue, and so on. Lumas, Banj may be a bit more cryptic, but there's only two of them.
It's the 3D shaders that have their own language, but they're only six. And they are less used nowadays.

I had more problems with tech names like nurbs and various splines, Phong, Oren-Nayar,...
made me think of school (Chebychev polynomes, Cherenkov radiation, Laplace transformations,...)
And with the shorthand slang (archviz, nla,...).

basilisk
08-23-2008, 01:37 PM
I think the SLA shaders are included mostly for backwards compatibility, as most of these effects are better achieved using the standard C4D materials - certainly the improvements to the transparency channel with colour absorption etc mean that Banji is superceded from a technical standpoint. Also metallic highlights are better handled with lumas in the luminance channel then with Danel which doesn't allow image maps in its channels (apart from environment) and has no transparency, alpha or displacement options.
If you are new to C4D, and do not cherish the heritage of the SLA names (and why should you?) then the best advice is probably just to ignore the SLA shaders and develop your texturing skills with the standard materials system.

That said, there are some who say that Nukei is difficult to beat for eroded metals though.

Dtox
08-28-2008, 09:18 PM
This proves my point.

It's the Danel shader that does brushed metal, not nukei.

I'll have to try nukei to that end.
I didn't know it did eroded metal.
Seems more interesting now. :twisted:

Danel which doesn't allow image maps in its channels (apart from environment) and has no transparency, alpha or displacement options.
Yeah that really sucks at first.

My biggest problem with materials is that I overthink things.
For instance, it seems logical to assume that when making aluminum with anisotropic lines you would add an anisotropic value in your bump channel and maybe invert(or otherwise modify) the color values.
This doesn't work though because I think that the anisotropy function ties directly with luminance or specular and doesn't give a raw result of grayscale data.
It gives no result when put in the bump channel with all 3 specular functions disabled.
I thought maybe it could be brought out with a BCG layer above, still nothing.

There's been plenty of times I've thought how useful it could be if you could open a material in a text editor and modify the code(provided you know how).

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