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3DDave
05-30-2003, 07:06 AM
Lightwave, Motion Builder Users!

Here is a Lightwave Skeleton (Skelegons) object and a Lightwave scene file for use in creating a Motion Builder compatible biped rig. All of the bones have the correct naming for use in characterization.

Have fun!

5/30/03, There was an error on the left thumb bone numerical naming. It should be LeftThumb1, LeftThumb2, LeftThumb3.

6/5/03, TyVole found an error with the thumb setup. Thanks!
Rev C adds a third thumb bone by splitting the Thumb Parent Bone. This error had no effect on characterization, but is more accurate to the MB Skeleton.

6/6/03, Thanks to Ub52 one more bug was solved with this rig. This problem has to do with Recording Pivot Rotations in Lightwave before you export the rig to an FBX file. i.e. Doing this will not bring in the translation data for the hips bone. This is the root bone that holds all of the motion in the XYZ direction for the rig.

6/7/03

Just a little more refinement in the Skelegon object. Symmety should work now and I update the hierachy in the scene file that works good with Motion Builders Characterization (Kurt30's idea). Also every bone in the skeleton can have it's rotation zeroed EXCEPT THE HIPS BONE.

Thanks for all of the collaberation on improving this rig. I think we have a winner now.

Version 2.3


Policarpo
TyVole
Ub52
Kurt30
TripleG

CTRL+X
05-30-2003, 07:46 AM
Thanks Dave

roguenroll
05-30-2003, 07:47 AM
yep, thx saw it at 3dbuzz.

policarpo
05-30-2003, 07:50 AM
:thumbsup:

Cman
05-30-2003, 01:10 PM
Thanks 3DDave.

Sil3
05-30-2003, 01:55 PM
Thanks :applause:

Sil3

3DDave
05-30-2003, 03:42 PM
Your welcome, glad to see people making use of it.

Don't forget you can add other bones to it and to motion builder as long as you don't break the hiearchy that MB uses for characterization. Also you can add bones to secondary objects on another layer as well. Works great!!

policarpo
05-31-2003, 02:24 AM
WOO HOO!

extra bones grounded to T & R roots work great!

I'll post a walking HELLBOY soon!!!!!!:buttrock:

Cman
05-31-2003, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by policarpo
WOO HOO!

extra bones grounded to T & R roots work great!

I'll post a walking HELLBOY soon!!!!!!:buttrock:

I'm looking forward to it.

Sil3
05-31-2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by 3DDave
Lightwave, Motion Builder Users!

5/30/03, There was an error on the left thumb bone numerical naming. It should be LeftThumb1, LeftThumb2, LeftThumb3.

This B rev has that correction.


Yap i noticed that one but easily fixed even in MB :) Still iīm having troubles, i adjusted the skeleton.lwo in Modeler to conform an old UT player Character (that i plan to export to UT2003), as soon as i hit Characterize i get an error message that the model needs to be facing the - Z, ok no problemo, switch over to Modeler, rotate the model with the skelegon, go to Layout export a new scene, go to MB hit Characterize again and the knees get bended backwards :hmm:

Dont know what is wrong, tryed it several times, i even exported to MB only the LWS file included in the zip and it works fine, dont know why "MY" scene get the knees backwards :shrug:

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Sil3

3DDave
05-31-2003, 08:06 PM
Ignore that message, it's just a warrning and does not indicate that your model is facing the wrong direction.

With the current version of the Lightwave FBX plugin, model and rig in the NEGATIVE Z direction. When you import into Motion Builder your model and rig will face the POSITIVE Z direction.

Strange, but true.

Sil3
06-01-2003, 01:42 AM
I got it working :bounce:

Made some modifications to the model pose, joined the characterīs legs more, adjusted the skelegons and bingo, it works perfectly :applause:

Thanks

thiaml
06-01-2003, 02:40 AM
motionbuilder sounds like a great program for character animation. can i ask 2 questions?

1. how does mb compare to messiah.

2. can you make a character pick up an object and later drop it (dynamic parenting)

ambient-whisper
06-01-2003, 02:47 AM
yeah but the process is a bit different.

heres a llink that explains it. its pretty quick.

http://www.kaydara.com/products/popup5.php?whamov=constraint

3DDave
06-01-2003, 04:10 AM
Originally posted by thiaml
motionbuilder sounds like a great program for character animation. can i ask 2 questions?

1. how does mb compare to messiah.

2. can you make a character pick up an object and later drop it (dynamic parenting)


1. There are many Messiah vs Motion Builder posts, just do a search.

2. YES

ryste
06-01-2003, 09:36 PM
I final got my SN:/ from Kaydara 2 days ago dying to get started with MB. Now 2 days later I have still not been able to characterize my model.

Massaged: “Some base links are missing”.

Then I tried to open GREMLIN or ARAGOR (fully functional) - removing Character and un checking Characterizes just to Characterize back again. But no, same message: “Some base links are missing”.

Thank God I can stop renaming over and over again in Modeler, because I thought that was the problem.

Why is that - please help me, pleeeees

I use Lightwave 7.5 and everything seems to work fine when exporting.

chr1sc0le
06-02-2003, 11:53 AM
The Skelegon rig isnt capable of using symmetry! did you guys adjust the arms n legs individually? i have had this issue many times befroe and the only way i get round it is to mirror one side so they match the coords exactly on the oppposite side..

or is this just me thats having this problem?

3DDave
06-03-2003, 03:04 AM
Originally posted by chr1sc0le
The Skelegon rig isnt capable of using symmetry!

Symmetry should work now with Rev E.

chr1sc0le
06-03-2003, 08:15 AM
Oh! hehe theres me mirroring and renaming in the skelegon tree the whole right set of bones again.. oh well it works fine now..

great rig! best yet.. especially around the shoulder area.

3DDave
06-07-2003, 05:53 PM
The rig has been updated to Version D.

3DDave
06-08-2003, 06:03 AM
Version E is ready for consumption. I think all the bugs are worked out now and this one is a keeper.

(See first post in this thread)

Fuzatron
06-08-2003, 07:43 AM
Dave-- I have had a blast playing with this rig today!! I don't know how long it would have taken me to figure out what I now know without it! :love:

Cman
06-08-2003, 05:15 PM
Thanks much for taking the time to do this!

Nemoid
06-08-2003, 05:24 PM
Thank U so much for this setup!!!:thumbsup:

i have a question as a newbie in rigging :

1) do i have to prebend skelegons in modeler 4 joint rotations to use this rig, or i have to adjust only the position of bones in the Y axis, or how i have to work with my character?

3DDave
06-09-2003, 04:08 AM
Motion Builder does not require you to "pre-bend" the leg and arms to tell the IK engine which way to bend. That has all been done for you in Motion Builder.

chr1sc0le
06-09-2003, 08:18 AM
Revision E ;) wheres that available from?

Ooops i see youve updated the initial post.. thanks

Shade01
06-10-2003, 10:28 PM
What is the box under the rig for? Can I delete it?

3DDave
06-10-2003, 10:50 PM
It was just there to convert the skelegons to bones. Skelegons by themselves don't convert to bones.

It was replaced with a null in the Rev e scene file. Download that one, it works better.

roguenroll
06-10-2003, 10:50 PM
i think its to be replaced by a reference null, but I haven't tried it.


>answered at same time

Shade01
06-10-2003, 10:52 PM
Thanks for the rig by the way, it's great!

Have you thought about turning that rig into an unweighted version by adding holder bones to it?

roguenroll
06-10-2003, 11:27 PM
Hey dave , I sent you an email, I think its bounced back twice now. I'm working on a non-human variation of your rig, for the MB/LW people. would you take a look before release to make sure its solid, just need to finish hands, feet, but MB is characterizing OK.

maybe we can start a little collection.

Rogue

3DDave
06-11-2003, 04:34 AM
Your welcome to do so!

I have found that creating weight maps are really easy and quick so I have not gone that route in Lightwave unlike Messiah Studio that requires you to use holder bones.


Originally posted by Shade01
Thanks for the rig by the way, it's great!

Have you thought about turning that rig into an unweighted version by adding holder bones to it?

Lasercade
06-11-2003, 09:43 AM
Hi,
Thanks for RevE.
I have an very cartoony (big-headed, stumpy legged) character that I'm trying to use in motion builder. I've been trying to use weight maps, but I can't seem to get any to register in motion builder. Just to test, I made only 5 weight maps (head, body, r_arm, l_arm, r_leg, l_leg) set to 100% and had each bone set to "use only weight maps". This didn't seem to do anything differently than when I had no weight maps assigned to the bones.

I've noticed by looking in the skelegon tree of RevE that you have the names of the weight maps named differently than the bones and I'm wondering if you got these weight maps to work successfully.

using motionbuilder 4.03 and lightwave 7.5c on OSX.2.6

thanks,

mm

Nemoid
06-11-2003, 01:15 PM
ok for the not-prebended bones. :thumbsup:


i'm happy thet MB does a great job for me!!

i'll test the rig with no pre bended and bended too.

do i have to apply some weights and if so, have u some tips for me? i found some difficulties with weights when they overlap. also i had to remove them form pelis zone in my latest test because the deformation was not good, and i had no experience to fix that problem.

thx in advance.:thumbsup:

Nemoid
06-11-2003, 01:20 PM
:eek: Ops wanted to write : i had to remove the weight from pelvis zone:eek:

3DDave
06-11-2003, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Lasercade
Hi,
Thanks for RevE.
I have an very cartoony (big-headed, stumpy legged) character that I'm trying to use in motion builder. I've been trying to use weight maps, but I can't seem to get any to register in motion builder. Just to test, I made only 5 weight maps (head, body, r_arm, l_arm, r_leg, l_leg) set to 100% and had each bone set to "use only weight maps". This didn't seem to do anything differently than when I had no weight maps assigned to the bones.

I've noticed by looking in the skelegon tree of RevE that you have the names of the weight maps named differently than the bones and I'm wondering if you got these weight maps to work successfully.

using motionbuilder 4.03 and lightwave 7.5c on OSX.2.6

thanks,

mm


Don't use the "weight map only" setting until you exported the character to Motion Builder. MB does odd things with weight map only for bones that need to be used in the IK rig.

The weight maps are set in Layout before exporting to MB, since some maps are set to multiple bones. The naming is just for a basic character. If more detailed maps are needed then just add them and re-assign.

It's really cool to see a lot of people making use of this rig.

The Todd Grimes Lightwave set has a great DVD on characters that includes setting up weightmaps. Go to desktop images web site.

Shade01
06-11-2003, 07:53 PM
Hey dave,

I think I noticed a problem with the rig. Your rig contained in the Lightwave scene file seems to function fine, like you would expect it to. The skelegon rig however, when converted to bones, seems to break at several points in the chain, such as the arm being disconnected from the spine. I don't know why this is because all the points in modeler seem to be welded correctly.

Also, I haven't been able to characterize either rig. I noticed couple other people are having that same problem with the rig. I'm too new to MB to offer any troubleshooting help though.

3DDave
06-11-2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by Shade01
Hey dave,

I think I noticed a problem with the rig. Your rig contained in the Lightwave scene file seems to function fine, like you would expect it to. The skelegon rig however, when converted to bones, seems to break at several points in the chain, such as the arm being disconnected from the spine. I don't know why this is because all the points in modeler seem to be welded correctly.

Also, I haven't been able to characterize either rig. I noticed couple other people are having that same problem with the rig. I'm too new to MB to offer any troubleshooting help though.

It could be that when the Skelegons are converted to bones the hiearchy gets broken. The eye bones are a perfect example, you can't parent these to the head in modeler becuase it wigs out in layout. This is the main reason I added the scene file to the rig download.

Oh, the solution is to re-parent the bones in Layout with Parent in Place on.

Maybe Lightwave (8) will have real bones in Modeler.

Lasercade
06-13-2003, 09:57 AM
Okay, I'm a bit stumped.
I'm having a problem where when I characterize my model, the model does not follow the motion capture very well, particularly in the arms... arms will tend to be bent crazily or swing way too high. I've reparented things to the way they are in the .lws provided but still no go.

As a test, I tried out the ghost combo that policarpo uploaded, which i guess is based on the same skeleton.
This characterizes and follows the motion capture files perfectly, so I know that it works!!!

I went and used the skeleton from the zombie character and fitted them to my model, and I got the same results - arms swinging strangely... It seems like a parenting problem, but I just can't figure it out as I seem to have everything exactly the same as policarpo has in his scene.
Is there another step in Layout that I'm missing? do i have to record rests or pivots or any of that stuff? What am I missing?

thanks for your help,

mm

3DDave
06-13-2003, 03:59 PM
Is your character in Lightwave facing the negative Z direction before exporting to MB?

MB will reverse the character direction when you open the FBX file and the character will face positive Z. This appears to be a Lightwave only issue.

Recording Pivot Rotations is not required, unless you need to drive expressions it works easier if you do this because your local rotations will be zero in MB. Do NOT zero out the rotations of the Hips bone.

Nemoid
06-13-2003, 06:02 PM
I characterized my character, finally, but not automatically.
maybe i did smth wrong with the skeleton rig, because when i noticed that MB didn't automatically rig it. i renamed it specularly.
still didn't worked. so i have some question for my next test.

1) is the Reference null or object required for auto characterizing?
2) in modeler, my char faces the-Z axis,so that he looks toward us in the back view and i noticed the skeleton too. so i only have to fit the bones to the body, right?or do i have to turn smth of 180°? noticed that in this case Mblet me view the scene wrongly, like in modeler.
3)in the layout scene, before exporting, i made Reference Null the main parent the body its child and the bones child of body.
do this can cause probs?
4)noticed also that after renaming, hips were no more parnt of Left and RightLegUp maybe some Skel Editor error occurred in that case, so in your skel are hips the parent of these bones?

next time i'll NEVER rename the skel!!!

Nemoid
06-13-2003, 06:02 PM
I characterized my character, finally, but not automatically.
maybe i did smth wrong with the skeleton rig, because when i noticed that MB didn't automatically rig it. i renamed it specularly.
still didn't worked. so i have some question for my next test.

1) is the Reference null or object required for auto characterizing?
2) in modeler, my char faces the-Z axis,so that he looks toward us in the back view and i noticed the skeleton too. so i only have to fit the bones to the body, right?or do i have to turn smth of 180°? noticed that in this case Mblet me view the scene wrongly, like in modeler.
3)in the layout scene, before exporting, i made Reference Null the main parent the body its child and the bones child of body.
do this can cause probs?
4)noticed also that after renaming, hips were no more parnt of Left and RightLegUp maybe some Skel Editor error occurred in that case, so in your skel are hips the parent of these bones?

next time i'll NEVER rename the skel!!!

Nemoid
06-14-2003, 10:02 AM
DONE!!:buttrock: :buttrock: :buttrock:

found some errors in my renamed skel, and in layout
reparented left and right leg links to hips they belong to
then exported in MB ...and Bang!
the characterization went smooth!!!!!:beer:

thanx to u all.

now i pass to the next step!!!

dzogchen
06-24-2003, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by Sil3
I got it working :bounce:

Made some modifications to the model pose, joined the characterīs legs more, adjusted the skelegons and bingo, it works perfectly :applause:

Thanks


May I know what modifications you did to the model pose?
I have the same problem of knees bending the wrong way after characterize.

Btw thanks for the skeletons it save me a lot of time:thumbsup:

Cman
06-24-2003, 12:08 AM
LOL! Great bunny-guy!

Nemoid
06-24-2003, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by dzogchen
May I know what modifications you did to the model pose?
I have the same problem of knees bending the wrong way after characterize.

Btw thanks for the skeletons it save me a lot of time:thumbsup:

in MB u can easily see that the start pose is a "T" stance pose. so, he probably put the char into that pose, then simply made the skelegon fit to the model's mesh ( its quite easy, start modifying the lenght and position of bones, then if required, their rotation, but not so much. observe the MB pre made chars, before).

Then save your object and load it in layout. at this point, u have to add a null, the reference null, at the origin, between the feet.
be also sure that the hip bone is the parent of leg up link bones. if not parent in scene editor.

if all is good in your scene and the naming of bones corresponds to that of MB and u have setted your eventual weightmaps, u are ready to export the scene, so save the scene before, save all objects, and then export in .fbx.

then your characterizing will go great!:smile:

hope this can help you.

sensai2nd
06-24-2003, 05:14 PM
hmmm . . . let's see here, I've reparented everything in layout, but it won't auto-characterize in MB. That is, I've got to manually set everything in the "character definition" tab and then it'll characterize . . .

Oh yeah, also, when i do actually characterize it gives me warnings like "rightlegroll is 3.598 degrees off it's axis," or something similar. The rig seems to still work fine, but why is this happening?

And lastly (takes a breath), the FBX file I export from layout is like 26mb . . . that just seems preposterously huge, yet all i've got in the scene is my character with the skeleton . . .


Peace.

Nemoid
06-24-2003, 05:30 PM
i also had to do that. it was quite a Nightmare.this works , however, because in this way, u have bones setted even if naming is incorrect.

1) go into Mb help file, or MB itself and put down a list of the naming necessary to the bones , it can be helpful for u to understand better, and also control if the skel is named correctly, but i warn u IT IS named correctly.

link bones that doesn't appear in MB template chars, and appear in the skel don't influence your characterizing. don't remove them, don't rename them.

2) char in t stance as in MB current position.

3) if u see the skel downloaded in the thread, u see how its z oriented. your char must be oriented the same.

4) control and rotate bones like u see them in MB

5) with the skel, u have only to reparent the "hips" question. read my last reply.

6) remember to save your scene and obj.

7) deselect your mesh in MB before characterizing, then drag the character template over your mesh. the char must appear green wireframe for a second if all works fine.

8) 26Megs??!!DOH! are u sure u have only one mesh into your scene? also if u have consistent textures try and see if removing them work.actually i can't see othr things wich can cause that size

yor mesh must be freezeb in modeler too, to work properly.

last but not least, u are setting your scene only in the 0 key, true? be sure of that.

Cman
06-24-2003, 05:34 PM
that does sound huge.
I've got 2 chars fully rigged and one with morphs, a simple set, and an audio file and it's only 8mb.

Maybe you accidentally have like two rigs fighting each other or something.

ub52
06-24-2003, 05:51 PM
First off, is MB giving you any messages when you attemp to characterize? That is when you drag and drop the character asset onto your model. It sounds like there may still be some bone naming problems. After you attemp this and go to the Character Definition panel in the Base required section does it say "No model" for all or just some of the Control Rig?

With regard to your second question I think there is a tolerance from some arbitrary setting before MB starts report things like this. However, I've not seen it hinder performance.

On your 3rd issue I've noticed the same thing. My current model when frozen contains about 20K polys, and the scene file that I export to FBX has 1 light and 1 camera. The export FBX file is approximately 20M. I'm guessing that they(Kaydara) have fixed data structures for everything that MB supports, and that these are being written out to the FXB with default values wether they are being used or not.

-ub52

sensai2nd
06-24-2003, 06:25 PM
thanks for the feedback guys . . .

Nemoid - I've rechecked the naming convention and everything seems fine and following MB rules.

CMAN and ub52 - I can drag/drop the character asset into the scene fine, but when I go to the character definition panel, it shows <no model> for everything, base included. So, if I try to chracterize at this point, it says "base links are missing."

I'm also gonna' try to get rid of some textures to reduce file size, but, still, 26mb's . . . something I'm doing must be screwy, though it's not doubl meshes or skeletons.

And my last dumb-dumb question: I've only been freezing my object in layout when the FBX exporter prompts me to do so . . . is this an issue? And (showing I'm a true neophyte) how do you freeze something in modeller?

Peace. You guys rock.

ub52
06-24-2003, 06:56 PM
When you drag and drop the Character asset into the viewer window are you doing so right over your model? It should turn green before you drop it, otherwise MB does not know which model to associated the Control rig with.

I think if you do your freeze during the export out of Layout it freezes at a sub-d level of 1. If you want more, do your freezing in Modeler.

-ub52

Nemoid
06-24-2003, 09:59 PM
i freezed my model in modeler, and saved it,
before constructing my scene.

also i found better and more secure, to rebuild the scene everytime i tried to damn export, because in that way i was sure that nothing could interfere with my work.

if the naming is correct, (case sensitive!!) and all is parented well in hierarchies , the null reference is there etc, then i see no reason the scene not to work.
of course,if just one point of the rules is missing, MB will not autocharacterize.

there must be some error.

also try to check if u have some 1 point poly in modeler both in the skelegon layer both in the object and erase it

sensai2nd
06-24-2003, 10:10 PM
alright, making some progress here . . . sort of. . . finally got it to auto-characterize thanks to your guys' tips:

ub52 - yeah, dragging the character asset onto the actual mesh did it; before I was just dragging it into the scene.

nemoid - umm, reference null? duh!? okay got that now . . . and . .

It auto-characterized!!! But now the mesh and skeleton are totally seperated!!!!

Man!!! Must . . . not . . . quit . . . almost . . . there . . .

How is the reference null supposed to be parented? The whole character to it?

CurtisG
06-25-2003, 11:32 PM
Hi sensai2nd,

The referenece node is ontop of your characters hierarchy, and acts as a 'global' transform node, to offset your characters position, orientation or scale. You can simply create a Null and parent your character to it, and use that in the character definition panel.

Cheers,

Nemoid
06-26-2003, 07:20 AM
Finally!!!:beer: and how u can see its not so difficult, uh?

Sensai i hope u activated your character after characterizing, so that u can use it with the char controls window (that with the puppet) to do so, after characterizing, co to the character setting window. and click active.
read the online manual , wich isn't not so bad, for further information about that if u have problems.

cheers :)

sensai2nd
06-26-2003, 07:45 AM
Man, Nemoid, you ain't kidding!!! LOL

Yeah, everything goes smoothly now and that control rig is just pure sweetness!

Really appreciate the tips . . .

My only dilemma, now, is figuring out how to reduce my file sizes . . . my .fbx files, which only have a mesh and skeleton, are exporting at like 25+ mbs!!! I finally got one model, the Proton Noodle model, to export at around 5.5mbs, which, at last seems reasonable . . . but I haven't been able to do the same with my own character that I'm trying to use (the guy in my avatar) . . .

I must be doing something wrong, but, for the life of me, I can't figure out what it is . . .


Peace.

Nemoid
06-26-2003, 01:17 PM
i am happy with your progress!!

What i only know,
is that MB does not support subpatches, so that u have to freeze your model ctrl+d in modeler before sending to layout. so u can freeze it, save with another name, adapt the skel, etc. and send to layout.

now , what i can say is analyze your model, so that the amount of polys is the amount needed. i don' know how is the Proton model, however its easy to understand if a mesh contains the exact amount of polys.
hope this can work.

otherwise: what about trying with another model?

once i made an head model wich worked so fine in modeler. then, when i sent it to layout it crashed everytime for some reason i haven't understood yet.:((( u can't imagine the pain to reach and visualize it in layout!!!i got mad about this.

ah! got another tip: in the export.fbx dialog box, uncheck animation u don't need to export animations from layout.
also, in MB choose NO animation, when u open the scene.

cheers.

dzogchen
06-26-2003, 04:44 PM
Thanks Cman for your reply to my problem of the weird bend knees! Indeed my character is just facing the wrong direction! Silly me! Now I have 2 more problems.

1) The joint spheres are so tiny that I have difficulties selecting them. I know I could use the Character Control panel but for the fingers you can only select them from viewer ( or am I wrong?) What's worse you have to select the yellow solid inside the wireframe sphere at the joint in order to bend the fingers. I have to zoom in and out so often it is getting stressful.

2) I have bones for the ears but how do I get MB to recognise it so that I can animate them??

Thanks in advance!:wavey:

sensai2nd
06-26-2003, 05:04 PM
you could use the "navigator window" to select your finger bones, other than selecting in the viewer . . .

Cman
06-26-2003, 05:18 PM
Hey, 2 good ideas on the finger bones thing!

When I put the viewer in X-Ray mode, it was REALLY easy to select the fk nodes when zoomed in.
Then after you got them all selected, you go to the GROUP PANELS!!!!
Click new group with the finger fk selected and bingo, new group. Now just click on that baby and you pick your fingers again whenever you want! Just like selection sets in LW, but imho, more accesible. :thumbsup:

Then, and this is the REALLY cool part, you can make a new layer and keyframe all your finger animations on that "finger animations" layer! :drool:

One thing I discovered, which didn't seem obvious to me at first, is when you're on a new layer, if you "zero" out the keyframe values, it goes to whatever value it had on the previous layer.
The layers are additive - so you can play all day and always go back to the animation you had before. :drool:

The bones in the ears, I don't know about that part yet. Wait...actually watch the 3dBuzz VTM with the alien and they show how to set up an IK constraint on bones in his antenna - very similar to your ears I bet. I think you need at least 3 bones though...

policarpo
06-26-2003, 09:44 PM
has anyone found out if constraints you set up in MB will transfer to LW without a problem?

these would be constraints on bones created in LW and opened in MB?

any ideas?

LFGabel
06-26-2003, 10:51 PM
CMan: I heard that MB5 is going to have finger controls... looking forward to seeing that.

Policarpo: What exactly do you mean? Set up a character in LW, export to MB, add constraints to bones in MB (like IK, or relations, etc.), then go back to LW? Yes this works. You just have to plot your animation before meging back to LW.

policarpo
06-26-2003, 10:56 PM
Yeah...that's what I meant...so you could set up tails, and all sorts of crazy appendages and get it back and animated into LW. :)

LFGabel
06-26-2003, 11:02 PM
There's a few examples of what you can do in the last 3dbuzz VTM (constraints; jiggling antennas derived from the character's motion, wavy tails, etc.)

However, I don't hink you could do it to skeletons that are part of the control rig.

policarpo
06-26-2003, 11:03 PM
right...i've seen those particular videos...but haven't tried it out with LW yet.

many thanks.

Cman
06-26-2003, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by policarpo
right...i've seen those particular videos...but haven't tried it out with LW yet.

many thanks.

I think so.
for my little 10SecClub animation I did simple parenting of a pen and notepad to the hands of a character.
One thing, I made a scene with the character and the objects together, then exported that scene as fbx.
When I merged anim back in LW the baked motions of the pen and notepad worked perfect.

There is some downsides to parenting in MB though. Once you parent, all motion on the child is overridden by the parents motion.
So, in LW you can parent one box to another, then animate the child, you cannot do that in MB - at least not that I've been able to do yet.

Cman
06-27-2003, 12:00 AM
Okay, so what I was able to do to animate a parented object in my 2 box scenario.
I added a null. Made box 2 a direct descendant of the null. Parented the null to box 1 with a constraint.
So box 2 operated as a LW normal parent child relation - at least in my test.


Here's the fbx file that I made the null-parenting thing.

LFGabel
06-27-2003, 06:27 AM
Yeah, CMan, that is a good workaround. In other tutorials (like Maya for instance) this is called using a "freedom node".

parent

freedom node - child

The freedom node is point or orient constrained to the parent, so that the child does what the parent does, but you can also move the child around too.

However, you shouldn't have to do this if you are hard parenting in MB (i.e. without using constraints). The overriding motion only happens with constraints.

Cman
06-27-2003, 06:55 AM
Is it possible to plot the animation of an object who's motion is manipulated by constraints?

As in that sample scene I posted above, how can I plot all the motion in the top box to the box - some is inhereted from it's parent...

ub52
06-27-2003, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by policarpo
has anyone found out if constraints you set up in MB will transfer to LW without a problem?

these would be constraints on bones created in LW and opened in MB?

any ideas?

The animation in thread I started here (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71933) uses IK contstraints set in MB to control the models antenna and eyes. I was able to plot the animation and get it back into LW. I tried setting up an IK chain in LW before exporting to MB and no go. Apparently the FBX plugin does not support the transfer of constraints. If you think about it, it makes sense, as MB has constraints for which there is no corollary in LW.

On another note I've taken Cmans discovery and used it to parent my antenna IK control nulls to the head bone of my model. Now anywhere I move the head the nulls follow and I can also translate and key the nulls to move the antenna around. This is great. Just got to do a test to see how it comes back into LW.

Cheers,

-ub52

dzogchen
06-27-2003, 07:39 AM
Thanks Cman for the tips. Pretty useful!:thumbsup: I have found out the way to enlarge the control sphere size through the properties tab, now picking them is a breeze in viewer. Got to check out the VTM to find out more.

Originally posted by Cman
Hey, 2 good ideas on the finger bones thing!

When I put the viewer in X-Ray mode, it was REALLY easy to select the fk nodes when zoomed in.
Then after you got them all selected, you go to the GROUP PANELS!!!!
Click new group with the finger fk selected and bingo, new group. Now just click on that baby and you pick your fingers again whenever you want! Just like selection sets in LW, but imho, more accesible.

Then, and this is the REALLY cool part, you can make a new layer and keyframe all your finger animations on that "finger animations" layer!

One thing I discovered, which didn't seem obvious to me at first, is when you're on a new layer, if you "zero" out the keyframe values, it goes to whatever value it had on the previous layer.
The layers are additive - so you can play all day and always go back to the animation you had before.

The bones in the ears, I don't know about that part yet. Wait...actually watch the 3dBuzz VTM with the alien and they show how to set up an IK constraint on bones in his antenna - very similar to your ears I bet. I think you need at least 3 bones though...

ub52
06-27-2003, 08:44 AM
Hey Cman, I was able to get things back into LW by selecting the top level scene. Then right click and click Select Branches. Once everything is selected in the Animation Menu select Plot All Properties. After plotting is complete don't deselect, but go to File->Save Selection and save the FBX to a new file. Merging this file back into LW brought the animation in from using your technique above. Hope my explanation wasn't to confusing.

-ub52

LFGabel
06-27-2003, 08:50 AM
(Do I hear an echo... heh heh...)

All you have to do is click on the Scene root, then right click and "select branch".

Then plot your animation.

While everything is still selected, go to File>Save Selection and save to a new fbx. Leave all the save defaults checked.

Then merge or import back to Lightwave.

I just tried an import (since I didn't have the cube lwos) and it works just fine...

Cman
06-27-2003, 03:31 PM
So let me see if I get this straight...

All I have to do is click on the Scene root, then right click and "select branch".

Then plot my animation.
Then, while everything is still selected, go to File>Save Selection, leave all the save defaults checked, and save to a new fbx.

Then merge or import back to Lightwave and it should work?

:D (echo...)

Okay. I think my problem I had with my character's hat is it came from a separate scene file, but it's motions were dependant on the character, so I cannot select the scene root because they're in two different scenes.

Anyway, good to know for next time.

LFGabel
06-27-2003, 07:05 PM
CMan, I seem to remember on a previous project that I had a similar situation. I imported a prop into MB after I had animated the character. Then its motion was later derived from constraining it to the character.

I just parented the LWO in MB to the _FBX_Root node and when I went back to merge, I just made sure the prop was in the LW scene there too, before the merge.

Use at your own risk, as that is from (faded) memory.

policarpo
06-27-2003, 07:08 PM
Hey guys!

I just wanted to thank all of you for being so proactive on the MB forum. I haven't had a lot of MB time the past month since i've been designing icons like crazy for a project...

Just knowing that you guys are plugging away at solving problems with MB makes me think it will be an easy transition to getting back up to speed once I finally can get back in it.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks and to keep up the good work!:beer:

Perambulator
07-19-2003, 06:28 PM
THis rig is great. Thanks for dave for setting it up.

One question though.

I have a problem with my model once charatcerized that means half of his head gets left behind when I move some of the controls. Also, some of his clothes are moving when they shouldn't.

Does this rig require weightmaps? Can I use "use weight map only" in layout?

Thanks

RIch

solar power
07-20-2003, 07:56 AM
I think it was 3DDave that posted earlier:

-----------------
The weight maps for the roll bones are the same as the bone the roll bone is for. Do NOT set "use weight map only" in the bone properties to limit influence. Instead set the bone influence to 1/64 or lower.

After you create your FBX file and animate and merge back to Lightwave then you can use "weight map only" if needed.
-----------------


Good Luck.

LFGabel
07-20-2003, 08:05 AM
"The weight maps for the roll bones are the same as the bone the roll bone is for."

I don't get why you'd want to do this... then you wouldn't get any forearm twist.

Perambulator
07-20-2003, 10:32 AM
Yeah, Okay, but still don't know why half of my characters head is getting left behind?

LFGabel
07-20-2003, 10:58 AM
Hmm. Some reasons for your head to be left behind could be...

- some errant bone weighting
- some points not weighted 100%
- if your object is in layers, each layer has to use the same set of bones

If it's just a few points on the head, it's probably a weighting issue.

Perambulator
07-21-2003, 08:59 AM
mmmm. I think it's cause of the eye bones. I think they are not parented to the head bones (unless that is done by default?). Then if they don't move when the head bone does, that'll explain it!

Need to try this later!

solar power
07-21-2003, 02:22 PM
Concerning wieghts. Is there anyone out there who has a method for freezing a subpatch model that has had wieght maps already applied?

If I freeze a model at a higher subdivision than 1, the wieghts don't get added to the additional vertices (in Modeler or in Layout in the fxb export process), of course, giving me an unusable model.

It seems that the fxb plugin will freeze your model at export from LW Layout using the 'Display Subpatch Level' setting in the meshes properties. But still doesn't re-apply the wieght maps to the newly created vertices if the setting is higher than 1. Going back and re-applying wieghts after a freeze is a real pain.

Ideas?

LFGabel
07-21-2003, 06:16 PM
Solar Power, I don't see this happening. I'm running LW7.5c and weights get properly assigned when frozen in modeler.

Perambulator... very few things are done by default in CG... :)

tpe
07-28-2003, 09:06 AM
Many thanks for the great skeleton.

Some people seem to be having some problems getting it in and out of LW and MB

Here is a little how to for thoes that are having problems

You need lightwave, motionbuilder 4.x+ and the latest motionbuilder plugins and last but not least for this to work 3Ddaves LW MB skeleton rig http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65961


Make character in T pose
Open FW/working_gfx/base_models/Skeleton.lwo into layer 2
Press ctrl F5
Double click layer 2
Rename to "*skeleton"
Adjust bones to fit character in poit mode with symetry on
Save file
Select weight shade render style in perspective viewport
Select both layers
select map>weightand colour>more>bone Weights, set 0 for threashold and clip
Select some points
select the apropriate weight map
click on Map/General/setmapvalue
set the apropriate value in box 1
Repeat as necessary

save your work


Send the object to lightwave

In layout add>Bones>convert skelegons to bones

select object layer one

Shift B for bones
p for item properties
select use bones from layer 2 *skeleton
make sure scene/parent in place is active
make hips the parent of Right_Leg_Link and Left_Leg_Link (hit F1 select it hit m and select head as parent)
make Head the parent of Right_Eye and Left_Eye
Select each bone in the scene builder
hit m to bring up the bone properties
Make sure each bone has the correct weight map
set the bone to use weight map only
turn off multiply strength by rest length
Add a null called Character_Ref_Null at the 0,0,0 origin


Your character is now bacically mapped


Export to motion builder

Scene/Generics/ExportFBX

Open Motion Builder

select character from the asset brouser and dragg onto Character_Ref_Null
click on characterise
Rename the character to something apropriate "my new guy" by right clicking on the character in the navigator

Save the scene

dragg a motion from the asset brouser to the preview pain and import the motion
double click the my new guy in the navigator and select the character settings tab
change input type to character input
change input source to the animation skeleton you have just added and check the active box

Save your scene by the name of the animation

Exporting back to lightwave

In the navigator window select LWS:_FXB_Root_
Right click and select branch
In the key controlls window select Animation plot all properties check plot all takes and cllick on plot
from the file menue select save selection
check all the options and save with an apropriate name

In Lightwave Layout select scene/generics/mergeFXB
select the apropriate motionbuilder scene file that you have just saved

click ok a couple of times

thats about it




tpe

phaedrus_cg
07-31-2003, 05:49 AM
great post, cleared up a couple of things for me!
thanx

illusory
11-06-2003, 08:48 PM
3DDave,

I found your thread with rig showing LW to MB, much helpful advice, thanks!!!

I have one question, hope you are still monitoring this thread.

I have a character rigged in LW, and trying to alter it to reflect your rig, to use in MB. But I'm having trouble figuring out what to do with the extra bones in, say, the legs and upper arms. I don't know what weight maps to assign them to ( I have WMs on my fig.), or how they are supposed to work with weights. Is there a sample weighted character around to demonstrate this, or any advice you can give?

Many thanks,
NJ

3DDave
11-07-2003, 08:31 PM
My suggestion is to use the same weight map for the leg and arm roll bones as the leg and arm bones. The Roll bones are used when the arms and legs twist. This is usually more visible with motion capture clips.

illusory
11-08-2003, 04:15 AM
Many thanks, 3DDave, you've been a big help!

NJ

spazproductions
03-19-2004, 04:47 PM
Hey guys, im creating a model in Lightwave 7.5 and trying to send it out to Motion Builder 5.1 to throw a motion on it. the model is simple, weight maps are good, but the Bones in the skeleton that i downloaded from dave has problems in MB. it doesnt seem to like the leg link bones. and the link legs arent parented to the hips.

can u guys post a working skeleton for me to use, or what can i do to fix the bone structure?

this would be greatly appreciated, im using this for portfolio work.


- Ryan

colkai
03-20-2004, 10:04 AM
The trick is to parent the leg_parent (or '_link' in older versions of the skeleton), to the hips, either in LW before exporting to MB, or you may be able to do it in MB prior to characterization.

Memodin
05-15-2004, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by 3DDave
Symmetry should work now with Rev E.

Is the "Rev E", Version 2.3? If so, symmetry doesn't work. (And i fixed it by myself).


By the way motionbuilder is realy realy realy great! :buttrock: .
(I was waiting LW8 for ca tools but you know... dissapointment.)
But MB was the right path.

Ok, everything is fine in my model except the fingers.
In lw layout, it seems ok first. I am adjusting the skeleton in modeler as suitable to my model. But after sending it mb, the fingers go mad. The finger skeletons... can i modify one by one in mb?
Or the solution is, making weight maps for them?

Thanks guys.

3DDave
06-01-2004, 11:46 PM
Version 2.3 is the latest build of the Skeleton.

I am working on a an updated version for 8.0 that will use the RIG format.

Motion Builder is up to 5.5 now (free update).

Memodin
06-02-2004, 12:55 PM
thats good.
youre my man dave....:thumbsup:

ansonkit
06-04-2004, 03:31 AM
thanks Dave....

ur skeleton work fine for me....is really save up my time....

anyway....can u show me how to constraint the eyeball in MB.....

thanks

tomtelord
08-11-2004, 11:09 AM
I would also realy like too know that so if somebody could answar how too constrien the eyes so the follow a null or some thing please

DaveLEWIS
08-22-2004, 10:06 PM
Hi 3D Dave and all the Motionbuilder users.

I wander if anyone can help me out. I have managed to use the 3D Dave skelegons successfully using MB5.5 from Lightwave 8.

My problem is the foot roll controls. I can successfuly control the feet, Foot(Ankle/Toes)Roll and also pinn the ball of the foot with included proton model, but when I use the 3D Dave skelgons, they work fine, but I can't figure how to get the foot roll, as the little red effectors are at the ends of the toes instead of at the ball of the foot. I have tried modifying the skelegons without success, as Motionbuilder always now puts the red effectors at the end of the toes, no matter how much I modify them to look like the Proton setup, with same names and number of bones.

Please, can anyone help me out with this, especialy if they you have successfuly acheived the foot roll and pinning yourself.

Best Wishes

daveythegravy

3DDave
08-24-2004, 04:27 AM
The Ninja feet setup is different than the one I made. I followed the MB 5 format.

Looking at the file, the Ninja has two bones added after the footend bone. I would try that out and see if that gives you what you looking for.

dalecampbelljr
09-09-2004, 02:01 PM
Version 2.3 is the latest build of the Skeleton.

I am working on a an updated version for 8.0 that will use the RIG format.

Motion Builder is up to 5.5 now (free update).
Is the new rig for LW 8.01 finished yet? if so where can you get it?
Dale

shaithis_2001
10-27-2004, 07:16 PM
Has the bone rig been updated to Lightwave 8? I havent seen much in this thread in a while and wanted to see if there have been any updates. Is 2.3 still the current version?

Thanks,
Mike

3DDave
10-30-2004, 07:26 PM
I have not done anything with a RIG version. Motion Builder 6 is almost upon us and I will most certainly have a skeleton for 6.

shaithis_2001
11-07-2004, 08:15 PM
Is there a recommended way for going in and fixing some trouble spots to get it to work with symmetry?

I brought the skelegon mesh into modeler just to get a feel for moving bones around and only some will move with symmetry on. Is there a setting that I dont have on or is this something that I am going to have to go in and tweak. If thats the case is there a tool/plugin to aid in setting this straight?

Thanks,
Mike

3DDave
11-09-2004, 12:06 AM
Use this sym repair plugin with the following settings, 1mm and unckeck fix centers.

Or download the skeleton file again with the fix.

http://cohen-plugs.tripod.com/

shaithis_2001
11-09-2004, 03:50 AM
Woo! Thanks for the fixup on the rig. Works great now.

Also thanks for the pointer to the other plugin. That will come in handy.

Mike

drfoley
11-22-2004, 04:41 AM
Hey 3D Dave or anyone else.

Do you guys know how I need to orient Dave's MB rig? I mean that when I load it into LW Modeler it faces 180 degrees opposite my model. Do I rotate my model around to face the same direction as the rig or rotate the rig? It matters because I did it the wrong way before and it wouldnt work right. I just cant remember which way to do it.

Thanks,
DrFoley

colkai
11-22-2004, 09:47 AM
I just use the reference and zeroise the rotation.
Sometimes, my rig comes back into LW facing the completely wrong way, but checking the rotation of the reference null showed it to be out.

drfoley
11-22-2004, 06:03 PM
I'm sorry but I dont understand what your saying.

"I just use the reference and zeroise the rotation"
- what do you mean by the reference? I didnt think there were any reference nulls in LW Modeler.

"Sometimes, my rig comes back into LW facing the completely wrong way, but checking the rotation of the reference null showed it to be out."

So you just put the rotation of the reference null at 0 degrees?

Is there a reference null/skelegon that comes with the rig?

Thanks,
DrFoley

colkai
11-22-2004, 07:18 PM
I thought you meant you were getting problems pulling (merging) the FBX fiel back into LW.
At that point, normally, you have a reference null in Layout to which your bones and mesh is parented and this is the master control for positioning the character to use the FBX motion as imported.
..oh silly me (slaps head) - been doing too much work in MB/LW - shoulda read your post properly :p I guess I'm even more tired than I thought ;)

colkai
11-22-2004, 07:39 PM
Hey 3D Dave or anyone else.

Do you guys know how I need to orient Dave's MB rig? I mean that when I load it into LW Modeler it faces 180 degrees opposite my model. Do I rotate my model around to face the same direction as the rig or rotate the rig?y Okay - heh, how embarassed am I? :blush:
The 3DDave rig should be so the feet / eye bones are pointing towards the -Z axis, so your mesh needs to be rotated that way...
I've attached an image to show you...Hope it helps... (as opposed to my other rambilngs ;) )

ddjix
01-24-2005, 02:03 PM
Hi Dave! I Heard you were working on a rig for MB6. Is there any problem with the current one? The naming convention is still the same right?

3DDave
01-26-2005, 06:43 PM
I have MB 6 but I have been swamped with other stuff that I have not had a chance to work with it. I did some test and it worked fine with the 5.5 rig, but I did not push it to any limits.

Oh, and the negative Z thing is a Lightwave FBX issue that has been there since MB 4.

Jack009
02-13-2005, 03:34 AM
:) :bounce:
I found a problem.I use the Skeleton,but I can't control toes of character in MB,other is very good!
I use lightwave 8.0.1 and Motionbuilder 5.1.

DaveLEWIS
02-13-2005, 09:38 AM
Hi,

With help from colkai, I had toes working fine in 5.5. If I remember correctly, I had to specifiy the ToeBase for it to work. Please let me know if you get it working:)

Best Wishes

daveythegravy

Jack009
02-14-2005, 05:29 AM
Hi, daveythegravy
Oh, Thank you for your help,I can contral toes.

Thanks again

Chagidiel
02-14-2005, 10:05 AM
While this subject is up I want to take the opportunity to ask about handcontrols.

I managed to figure out how to fix the toebase-thing, but canīt understand how to set up an equivalent thing for the hands. My problem is that I donīt know what bone to use as "FingerBase".
As I understand it, this is necessary in order for MB to regard the hands as separate bodyparts, and to be able to use handposes properly (without affecting the entire arm when applying new poses for the fingers).

Thanks for any help on this :)



And also, thanks alot 3DDave for your skeleton. This has been a great help and asset :D!

colkai
02-14-2005, 12:00 PM
Whilst not initially apparent, if you check out the cat skeleton, you'll see how the finger base is set up there, likewise toebase. may be of some use.

Chagidiel
02-14-2005, 02:28 PM
Thanks colkai

That sorted it out :)

I canīt beleive how messed up this is "explained" in the manual.

colkai
02-14-2005, 06:54 PM
I canīt beleive how messed up this is "explained" in the manual.

Ahh, don't get me started. ;)
There are so many things about MB that are either not related in full, (or at all). Little "gotchas" which can throw you for a loop when learning. Now that the old MB4/5 knowledge base has been cleared, there is a lot of info that has been lost.
Alias still has a ways to go to get up to the level of support offered by Kaydara, and the forums are nowhere near as active.

Oops - looks like I got myself started there hehe :p

Chagidiel
02-15-2005, 06:32 AM
Oh, I think I could join you in that colkai :)
I still find the old Kaydara forums pretty helpful, even though you canīt post there (http://forum.kaydara.com/index.php?). I canīt understand why Alias didnīt just build on those forums instead of creating their own uninviting place.
but yeyeye....

For anyone having trouble with the hand setup, and where to put the FingerBase joint, here is how I understand it should be, for future reference;


|......................... Ring1 - Ring2 etc.
|........................ /............................
Hand - FingerBase - Middle1 - Middle2 etc.
|....... \ .............. \ ...........................
|....... Thumb1 ...... Index1 - Index2 etc.
|................. \ ..................................
|.................. Thumb2 etc.


Please correct me if I am wrong anyone.

coffeefery
02-21-2005, 02:58 AM
Regarding the problem with hand setup, I actually have problem with the whole skeletal setup. I saw Buzz's VMTs (which are really great and enlighting). The thing is that Buzz uses Maya as an example and Maya's rigging is a little different from LW in that Maya places the joints and then skeletons are formed, thus, the joints apply at the positions that MB can read. For LW, we create the skeletons by itself. Take the finger as an example: I usually create Finger_Base, Finger_Mid and Finger_Tip, and they will be enough to move the fingers. But MB requires Finger base, the 3 bones, then it seems to ask for the finger tip joint too... kinda confusing for me since I'm not good at rigging.

Thus, is there any place I could find out how MB wants us to set up our skeletons so that importing it would be quick and easy? Or can anyone show visually what skeletons should be and where to place them? A picture of the skeleton setup or the skeleton placement pictures would really help. Thanks.

rosferatu
03-15-2005, 12:01 PM
Hi all,
I have tried this with both MB 5.5 and 6.0 Pro.
We are using a skeleton downloaded from this thread (thanks Dave 3d!) and it works fine in MB. but on import into LW as an fbx nothing happens. When we try to import as a bvh the whole rig bones are mixed up with only a few moving. we have tried plotting the motion in motion builder and exporting straight fbx. But nothing seems to work.
Do any of you Lightwave/Motion Builder geniuses have any help?
thanks a lot in advance
-Ross
:banghead: :cry:

colkai
03-15-2005, 01:12 PM
The one key thing I would stress is make sure you are importing back to the same rig that your exported, otherwise yeah, things can go sorta kablooey. ;)

I bounce data back a forth no problem at all quite regularly, (well, until I had to re-install MB, but that's a whole other story).

One thing you will find, you will have to zeroise the rotation on your reference null once you merge the FBX data, but other than that, it's pretty goshdarn seamless.

dalecampbelljr
03-15-2005, 05:43 PM
Hi all,
I have tried this with both MB 5.5 and 6.0 Pro.
We are using a skeleton downloaded from this thread (thanks Dave 3d!) and it works fine in MB. but on import into LW as an fbx nothing happens. When we try to import as a bvh the whole rig bones are mixed up with only a few moving. we have tried plotting the motion in motion builder and exporting straight fbx. But nothing seems to work.
Do any of you Lightwave/Motion Builder geniuses have any help?
thanks a lot in advance
-Ross
:banghead: :cry:

make sure you are using the "merge" function; NOT the import..

rosferatu
03-24-2005, 07:45 AM
thanks everyone who helped. looking like the merge definately helped! good ole motion builder!
-Ross

vfxmatt
04-03-2005, 07:52 PM
Hey guys

Ok heres the Problem:

I have my Lightwave 8.2 scene set up with the proper rig and I have the mesh parented to A reference null.My null Zeroed in Lightwave and my Mesh is also Zeroed and facing neg Z.

Right I export to MB and all is dinkie.I do my thang then I plot the Skeleton and merge FBX back into the scene from whence it came.Heres were the problem occurs.

The Ref null Rotates 90 Bank and 90 Pitch..,which i understand seems to be a common problem however if that isnt enough when i zero the ref null its translation is wrong to?

Its like the plotting is only taking certain values from the translation of the null out of MB.

Some help would be greatly appreciated.

colkai
04-03-2005, 10:00 PM
I've only ever had my ref-null be out rotation 90 & 45, never any translation problem. However, if you just zeroise the ref null translate and rotate - it should be enough to correct the "normal" hiccups merging causes.

bradenbickle
04-08-2005, 03:57 AM
Anyone have a quadroped rig for lightwave to motion builder?

colkai
04-08-2005, 08:27 AM
It should be relatively simple to adjust the "3DDave" LW rig to quadraped based on the info in the PDF's about rigging quadrapeds in Motionbuilder knowledge base.

colkai
04-08-2005, 08:31 AM
Ooh - looky what I found :) 'cat skeleton'
EDIT:
At the risk of blowing my attachment limit since the history of time - here's another rig (dino)
Seems you daren't provide too much uploads - never knew till now :(
Ahh well....

Grub
04-29-2005, 02:38 PM
Thanks a lot. I'm going to have a play with these.:)

toxotis70
08-30-2005, 11:00 AM
Is there any news about LW 8.3 and MB 6 or earlier ?
What version of MB do you use with new LW 8.3 ?
Is there any newer-better rig for LW and a SIMPLE guide hot to use it ?

dalecampbelljr
08-30-2005, 08:38 PM
Hey guys

Ok heres the Problem:

I have my Lightwave 8.2 scene set up with the proper rig and I have the mesh parented to A reference null.My null Zeroed in Lightwave and my Mesh is also Zeroed and facing neg Z.

Right I export to MB and all is dinkie.I do my thang then I plot the Skeleton and merge FBX back into the scene from whence it came.Heres were the problem occurs.

The Ref null Rotates 90 Bank and 90 Pitch..,which i understand seems to be a common problem however if that isnt enough when i zero the ref null its translation is wrong to?

Its like the plotting is only taking certain values from the translation of the null out of MB.

Some help would be greatly appreciated.

There is a couple of ways to fix this, I use MB6 and Lightwave 8.3 with no issues. I am creating a doc as to how I do this, but do you or can you upload the scene from LW and I can then give some suggestions.

Prevenge
09-04-2005, 05:04 AM
This process works for me I am using it daily on a project.
I use dave's skeleton. (the first post on this threat)

1- Modeler -
Make your character facing down the NEGATIVE Z axis. -Z
Add or subtract bones as you wish, just make sure you leave at LEAST .. these bones..
Motion Builder uses these default names for bones.. changing them is fine but makes this process more complex than it needs to be.

Hips
Spine
Neck
Head
LeftArm
LeftForeArm
LeftHand
LeftUpLeg
LeftLeg
LeftFoot
RightArm
RightForeArm
RightHand
RightUpLeg
RightLeg
RightFoot

2-Layout -
-Load your character into the scene
-Convert Skelegons to bones
-Parent LeftLegParent and RightLegParent to Hips, (or whatever is the first bone in your leg hierachy)
-Parent the Eye bones to the Head bone.
-Save your scene and label it appropriately. Archive it as something you will need to constantly use.

NOTE: I don't ever use a "reference null" at this point and I have flawless results.

(I use 2 versions of it.. origonal "for_EXPORT" and a slightly modified version of it "for_MERGE". Because I don't like adding certain things that shouldn't be in the EXPORT version every time I output my final motion files, but nevermind this and don't change anything if you want to keep things simple to begin with.)

-EXPORT FBX - using the latest (7.5 I believe) fbx exporter for Lightwave
I uncheck the last 2 boxes (camera and lights) I have tested the other boxes if they cause problems or mess up the workflow or whatnot and I just stick to these settings because they work.
-Name your export file the same as your lightwave scene you just saved for ease.
This T stance FBX is a file you will use alot for making all of your motions with, so archive it preferrably in the same place as the LW scene.

3- Motion Builder -
-File - Open - your exported FBX file you made from your lightwave scene.
-Make sure you are in Display-Normal mode
-Drag Character asset from the asset browser on to your character's mesh.
-Click Characterize.
-Click Biped
-If it says anything about bone rotation say Ignore All.
-SAVE this scene with "_MB" at the end. It's my understanding that Motion Builder saves things differently than Lightwave does in FBX's.
-File - Open your "Actored" ( whole other conversation ) motion capture data files, or animations. Use the MERGE checkbox on the loading options.
-Select the TAKE for the motion that you want to use on your character.
-Select your Character in the Navigator and double click it.
-Select these options -
Input Type - Actor Input
Input Source - Actor or your desired actor
-Check the Active check box.
(apply any filters or changes ie: foot floor contact etc..)
-In the Character Controls for your Character, select Edit - Plot Character
-Select Skeleton (or control rig if you're going to make changes but I'm keeping this as short as possible)
I usually save at this point a version I can go back to and change if i wish, and I delete EVERYTHING in the scene except the LWS:_FBX_Root_ hierarchy (as that is your character)
Save this FBX file as you wish noting that it is "for_MERGE" or "for_LW". Thats what I do. As most of you obviously know .. when you accumulate ALOT of files.. this is imparative.

4- Layout -
-Open your origonal T stance file you exported the first FBX out from.
-Select the character's object.
-MERGE FBX
-Select the file and the proper take.

wazzunk! all done.

ErAn-C
11-28-2005, 01:25 PM
Thank's for the skeleton and all the great tutorials.
Just one question... I did the process a couple of times and it wored perfectly..
But now, every time I try to plot the character, it automatically disable the "Active" and everything comes out a total mess...
any idea why something like that can happen?

Edit: Okay, problem solved!!

toxotis70
11-28-2005, 07:40 PM
What was the problem ?

ErAn-C
11-28-2005, 07:52 PM
When I tried to plot the character, it disabled the "Active".
So I went to Animation->Plot all and it worked..
and now it's working either way. I guess there's a reasonable explanation for that.

CROMO3D
12-26-2006, 12:27 PM
Thank You Have Solve A Big Problem For Me

CROMO3D
12-27-2006, 09:35 AM
Hi Guys, i've tried to export from Lightwave to MOtionBuilder the 3dDave'Skelegons, but when i Characterize a window come out saying: Leftupleg is not the direct discendant of Hips, Reference was found.... what does it means?

next come out another windows sayng: leftuplegroll is 3.53 degrees away from it's roll axis

sorry, i have another question :)

next i drag a mocap file but in the Character Control\Edit\input i can't select MOcapSource

thanx

Neill
11-05-2007, 12:07 PM
Hi everyone,

I work on LW->MotionBuilder pipeline and look at rig at this thread... I really want to know, for what "left_arm_parent" and all other *_parent bones?

Thanks in advance

3DDave
11-23-2007, 05:58 PM
This LW Skelton file was made for LW 7.5C and Motion Builder 5.5, so using it in any newer versions of LW and MB may have problems. I know the LW FBX was stopped at 8.2.

The parent bones are not needed in MB but are needed in LW for correct deformations.

thetatorment
12-31-2007, 12:01 PM
in my recent desperate searches for motionbuilder quadruped rigging (both from LW and maya) i've found very little help online. earlier in this thread folks had mentioned or linked (the link has been removed) a "Dino" version of the quadruped rigging example. if anyone still have it, or the other generic quadruped rigging example linked in the first post of this thread (now long since dead) could you please please please send me a copy, or any other example i could use for reference. i would be most eternally grateful for any help or reference example file you could provide. what i need mostly is a Motionbuilder file example of a quadruped rig, so i can get my rigging and naming/ setup right in Maya beforehand making it an easier import into Motionbuilder. forever in your debt,
thetatorment
vfx@thetatorment.com

zonah
06-10-2009, 08:59 AM
Hello, i follow all your instruction and i have all nice except the last point.

I have my animation ready in MB, i plot the character and i export to fbx.

On lightwave i donīt have the plugin to merge. i can load fbx on scene and have the option "Merge only motion envelopes". I do it and appears my skelegon of MB animated.
But my Rigged character have their skelegon too.

How can i do to follow the Mb skelegon loaded? or how i do bad?

Thanks

dalecampbelljr
06-10-2009, 05:08 PM
This is a pretty old thread; what instructions are you referring too?

zonah
06-10-2009, 05:21 PM
Yes, is old but the only guide i find.
If you know any new way to do this please tell me about.

I have lightwave 9.6 and motion builder 2009.

I follow instruction on page 6 and too instructions on page 9, 2 ways ok on motion builder but when i export my motion to fbx and open in lightwave in my character rigged, i get a skelegon animated individual.

How can i do to my skelegon follow this skelegon.
If i parent this to my mesh dont run because frame 0 of MB animation dont have T pose.

Thanks and sorry for my english ;)

dalecampbelljr
06-10-2009, 05:53 PM
We can chat on Skype if you would like it would be faster...
dalecampbelljr is my contaact info.

zonah
06-10-2009, 07:35 PM
Thanks for your colaboration.
Added to skype, see you there

Thanks

PeteS
09-30-2009, 03:46 AM
WOW, this post is quite old. I also noticed the rig link is dead. Anyway to still get the rig? I'm using MB 7.5

Thanks..Dave, I hope it's still around!

3DDave
10-16-2009, 05:43 PM
WOW, this post is quite old. I also noticed the rig link is dead. Anyway to still get the rig? I'm using MB 7.5

Thanks..Dave, I hope it's still around!


Link is now fixed. I had a change in domain.

David

jsemerad22
08-02-2010, 05:29 PM
hey, anyone with any motion builder experience in NYC area looking for work? i need some help.