ILM Talks About HULK, X2,Matrix and Golluim

[Joe2003]

Here's 2 brand new pics to go with your article.

http://www.hulkmovie.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=17591
http://www.hulkmovie.com/vb/attachment.php?postid=17590

:eek: Jaw hitting the floor.

[SheepFactory]

-"Gollum, he was climbing across the mountains and a river but he doesn't get wet, he doesn't get dirty and doesn't interact that much.-



I guess they saw a different movie cause Gollum interacts quite a few. Just the first fight with Frodo and Sam is the king of CG\Live action interactions imho.



-"X-Men is a summer film with lots of characters, lots of action. The Matrix is its own cyber world where the rules of nature are somewhere else.

"This is Ang Lee."-



That reminds me of "the Bar is raised so high ,. there is no bar anymore"

[Joe2003]

That reminds me of "the Bar is raised so high ,. there is no bar anymore"

That isn't even within a million miles of the crap that came out of John Gaeta and Joel Silver. You don't hear Muren or ILM bragging about how they're the greatest thing since sliced bread.

As for Gollum, they are correct that Gollum never really gets dirty. I just watched it and you can't really tell that he's dirty. Most CG characters haven't in the past.

[erilaz]

I just get the feeling some people have an inferiority complex when they compare their work to others.

"This character didn't do this, but ours does, so neeearrrrrhhh!":p

[jschleifer]

hmm.. I seem to remember lots of shots where gollum gets dirty, gets wet, interacts with the environment, etc.

maybe we never put those in the movie..

[ambient-whisper]

heh. didnt you guys also have a lil app ( maybe it was in grunt? ) that took the soldiers and dirtied em up as as they were in the battlefield more? i remember seeing a lil demo of a soldier walking in a path and his clothes were getting muddy and stuff. :) very cool demo :D

[erilaz]

Yeah, that demo was awesome!:bounce:

[JayCMiller]

great work on Gollum jschleifer, I love the character & he's great in the film. it's unfair to compare him to the hulk, because Gollum isn't a main character like hulk and thers plenty more digital characters to work on. as far as I know the hulk is the only digital character in the film, how many were there in LOR? hundreds

[Joe2003]

Guys, take it easy. ILM didn't bash or criticize Gollum at all. I'm sure they respect the work that WETA did.

Oh, one more Hulk pic for your enjoyment.

http://www.hulkmovie.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=17639http://www.hulkmovie.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=17639

how many were there in LOR? hundreds

Thousands!;)

[leigh]

I thought Gollum looked pretty filthy in parts of the film.

As for getting wet and interaction, sheesh! Let's not forget the parts where he went fishing, and also all the times he grabbed onto Frodo and Sam, amongst others.

I'm looking forward to The Hulk though, I hope it's a cool film :)

[hypercube]

If they're being complimentary there, I really don't see it..sounds like backhanded praise to me anyway, and kind of a dismissal. Mainly it's just spin due to the fact they're talking about their movie, but that's kind of silly. Of course it's nothing to the level of smack that fathead Gaeta was talking..but that's neither here nor there. :rolleyes:

I still don't see hulk's realism matching Gollum..but I'll wait to see the movie for them to change my mind. Mainly they can get away with murder because hulk is BRIGHT GREEN..I'm not seeing any delicate translucency or that sort of thing going on so far, and the dirty version doesn't sell me either. :shrug:

Hulk's facial animation looks to be really great, but as a complete character Gollum still takes it for me so far. As Jon Lovitz would say, "ACTING!!" "GENIUS!!".

And of course have to go see the movie. :)

[MCronin]

Well I like Gollum and all but what I've seen of the Hulk so far is pretty damn amazing. Seeing the closeups where he's got sewer sludge and little bits of sand and what not caked on his skin and in his hair, it's pretty incredible looking. I saw one clip where it looks like he's going through a transformation (I guess he does this a couple times in the movie, where he grows bigger and bigger) seeing him wretch and his muscles roll and spasm under his skin, very Akira like, it looked fantastic. As far as the skin and SSS, he does have SSS, it's subtle, but you can see it in some of the daylight shots. I can't remember who it was but I was reading CFQ or something and one of the effects guys said they they specificly wanted to minimize SSS because he needed to have much thicker looking skin, like and elephant or something. I personally can't wait to see this movie.

Anyway if there's any effects house that has earned the right to talk a little smack now and then it's ILM, and if anyone is going to take digital characters further than Gollum it's probably going to be ILM. I'm sure we'll be seeing charaters over the next couple years that are going to make Gollum look really synthetic. It has to happen sooner or later.

[jason-slab]

this is all just a bit silly, i mean the hulk should be better than gollum.

look at it this way (like MCronin says) technology changes.

gollum kicked jar-jar's ass, so hulk should kick gollums ass, and i bet that that big furry guy, yes king kong will kick the hulks ass!

it has to happen, and everytime us cg geeks will go WOW thats amazing:D

c

just my 2cents

|jason

[BoydLake]

Yup... I agree. They way I read it, they seem to be a bit worried about how the Hulk measures up. All that talent and resource and experience of big ILM shaken up by the awesome team at WETA and a small software tool known as Mirai (among others of course, but I'm very proud of Mirai ;)). It is awfully fun to see.


:D

[BoydLake]

Oh, and another thing about the comparison...since the acting performances of Bana and Serkis have a huge impact on their characters you have to take that into account. I don't have to see the Hulk to know that Serkis wins that one hands down.

[malducin]

I'm guessing a lot of people are misreading the article. They are basicly saying that X2 is a bit more geared to action while Ang Lee wants to lean the Hulk more towards drama. Heck there was plenty of drama in LOTR: TTT, with also its good dose of action. Second there have been printed articles of people from ILM, like Rob Coleman prasing characters like Gollum. And perhaps they are doing a bit of trash talk, but can you blame them. After all the crap from Gaeta, and Silver (and maybe Borushkov) plus a lot of people in boards like this, well I just have to roll my eyes. Remember it's not a contest of who has the bigger stick. Heck how can people even talk performances without seeing the movie!!! I mean like poeple dissing movies just on some preconceptions that might be wrong.

CG characters have come to a point where you have great looking ones, and instead of of just being show (which still is) it's about what they bring to the movie. Characters like Gollum, Dobby and Stuart Little are at a pretty much even pinnacle.

[JayCMiller]

yeah it's not a contest, CG Artits are allways going to be picky, we wouldn't improve otherwise. :)

The hulk looks unreal but I love the size of him (Hes as large as he should be, you can't get an actor to do it) his movement looks fantastic I love the shot where his running then does one of his "Hulk" leaps off over the horizon :buttrock:

[puu]

-"Gollum, he was climbing across the mountains and a river but he doesn't get wet, he doesn't get dirty and doesn't interact that much.-

thats an interesting view, in Two Towers my jaw dropped when gollum splashed down the river after some fish.. but come on ILM shot themselves in the foot with 'Jar Jar' if gollums so crap lets see your baddie! put out or shut up :P

[psil]

:surprised I thought one the most impressive things about Gollum was the interaction with environment. It'll be interesting to see how Hulk interacts.

err...has anyone else noticed that these articles always tell you a bit about what they did, but nothing about how they did it. All they really tell you is that Hulk was made in a computer. Well, dang my poons:rolleyes:

[Ed Bittner]

I remember seeing an interview with George Lucas where he stated that ILM was at least 10 years ahead of the other effects houses as far as their capabilities. This was, as I recall, during the transitional period from "all motion control" to mainly CG. Not that ILM isn't the home for some of the most talented artists and technical achievers in the world, but George ,( in good conscience), couldn't make that statement today. When the first Star Wars came out,( yes, I saw it before the"Episode IV" title was added), the existing effects houses in the industry asked " Who are those guys?",( ILM), and "Where did they come from?" I can only assume ILM was asking the same question when "The Fellowship of the Ring" was released. There seemed to be a big deal made out of the fact that during the filming of A.I. for Spielberg, ILM made it possible for the director to see the "virtual set" as he was filming the actors. The fact that Peter Jackson was in a virtual set, with a virtual camera, recording virtual camera moves as the animation played back on his "virtual reality" headset AND could see what the virtual camera saw during the "cave troll" battle as it happened, seemed to go largely unnoticed. Was ILM supposed to have invented that ?
Also, no matter what, or how good the FX are, the effects house is always going to be associated with the film for which the effects are created . The effects in "Episode Two- Attack of the Clones" may be rated as some of the best, but if the film tanks, there will always be a negative association. People aren't raving about the FX as much as they are remembering how bad the film was. Thus far Weta has been blessed. Great story. Great FX to go with it. ( Go get 'em Weta)!
Ed

[vfx]

King Kong - God i'd do anything to work on that film! A bit of history in the remaking. I think it will be one of the most accurate and jaw dropping recreations of an animal similar to something we can associate with in reality!! I just can't wait!

[samartin]

PIXAR RULE !!!

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OT'ish : Thing is with all these new adventure/action flicks it's all nearly done in CG nowadays, what's happened to all them stuntmen who risked life and limb for the flicks, far more impressive than some guy walking around in a ping pong ball suit !!!

Gollum was awesome by the way, I'm just whinging about the fact stuntmen seem to be a dying breed nowadays, a major shame IMO...

[hypercube]

Originally posted by samartin
just whinging about the fact stuntmen seem to be a dying breed nowadays, a major shame IMO...


Well I think the point of replacing them with CG doubles is so they AREN'T a dying breed, if you know what I mean.

I think once the tech is solid and the consistency up, it's all good..right now the 'cg handoff' is still too tricky for some it seems like..but in the cases it works, I think it's great, and allows for some much more dangerous/deadly stuff to 'happen'.

[samartin]

Yeah I know what you are saying, safety and all that is a major factor, but the adrenalin/real buzz seems to get lost these days, it's still so blatant what CG is used in the films, blue screens etc...

I loved reloaded action sequences but the flow in a lot of the sequences seemed to break up, and stunt doubles or whatever wouldn't be able to pull them scenes off, maybe it's just Hollywood wanting 'oh we can do bullet time ?' let's do 2 minutes of bullet time in the next movie then...

I think I'll get me coat, enuff' ranting, poor scripts eh !!!

[unclebob]

Originally posted by Ed Bittner
....... When the first Star Wars came out,( yes, I saw it before the"Episode IV" title was added), the existing effects houses in the industry asked " Who are those guys?",( ILM), and "Where did they come from?" ....... Ed

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that remembers that the "first" Star Wars move .. was called Star Wars .. not Episode IV .. A New Hope. We were all wow'd and dazzled by the effects, and I remember a collective "GASP" when the Falcon went into hyper-drive the first time.

hehehe It is a long way from that to an interactive Gollum, and yeah .. I think "they" are saying .. whoah where did those guys come from. This is a good thing... now instead of just looking for ILM, I will also be looking for Weta as a standard of CGI.

[Joe2003]

but come on ILM shot themselves in the foot with 'Jar Jar'

He doesn't have to surpass the Hulk. He has to surpass the Mighty Joe Young, which was also done by ILM.

[macqdor]

I think many are looking at the article completely the wrong way and are putting both power houses at ods with one another when they should not.

Yes we saw Gollium wet and dirty at times, but I believe we will see HULK even more wet, even more dirty and basically meld closer into his environment that what we saw with Gollium.

Its all about process and moving up. Expect with newer technology.

[Fingolfin]

Originally posted by macqdor
I think many are looking at the article completely the wrong way and are putting both power houses at ods with one another when they should not.

Yes we saw Gollium wet and dirty at times, but I believe we will see HULK even more wet, even more dirty and basically meld closer into his environment that what we saw with Gollium.

Its all about process and moving up. Expect with newer technology.

Wrong way? I can see only one thing that is wrong and that is the fact that only one guy said what he said. I sure didn't speak for the entire company. But he still shouldn't of said that. Why? because it was an inacurate statement. Yes, Gollum DID interact and get dirty and wet. Not sure what movie that ILM guy saw. Why would he say that? He talks about Hulk being in the forest and then in the desert. SO? Gollum was in the forest and climbed mountains. I just think that he made a silly comment (one that was very inacurate too) and that's why people are surprised by it. ILM still has tremendious tallent and there will be plenty of movies to prove it. Weta is going to continue to kick butt. There's room for both houses in this world but no room for stupid comments that starts flame wars on CGtalk. (But it's fun talking about it!):beer:

[Joe2003]

I think many are looking at the article completely the wrong way and are putting both power houses at ods with one another when they should not.

Agreed!

ILM still has tremendious tallent and there will be plenty of movies to prove it. Weta is going to continue to kick butt. There's room for both houses in this world but no room for stupid comments that starts flame wars on CGtalk.

Agreed! But this has been blown way, way out of proportion on this board. The way some of you were reacting, you'd have thought he said WETA and Gollum flat out suck. If WETA had made the same statement about ILM, I bet few if any would even give it a second thought.

Oops, here's a couple more pics of the Hulk.

http://www.latinoreview.com/films_2003/universal/hulk/images/hulk_1.jpg
http://www.latinoreview.com/films_2003/universal/hulk/images/hulk_3.jpg

For some reason the colors in the second pic seem smeared. Oh well, great shot anyway.

[macqdor]

Good Point Joe


Seems people are Ultra Sensituve to anything dealign with WETA or Golluim

The CGI Golluim was a ground breaking achievement.

In a couple of weeks we're going to see another ground breaking achievement in regards to the CGI HULK.

I'm liking what I see in regards to what ILM has done so far with HULK and a few other Summer Movies I've seen trailors for

ILM, WETA are not enemies lets not make them one.

But the field of CGI keeps improving itself, TRex, Jar Jar, Yoda/Golluim, HULK soon to be King Kong and who knows what else is on the Horizon.


:-)

[leigh]

Why do people always write Weta in capital letters? :surprised

The name is not an acronym - a weta is a massive insect that is native to New Zealand :)

[Ckerr812]

is it weh-ta...or wee-ta?

mmm...pita's....*starts to drool*

*Goes out to get a pita*

[leigh]

The Kiwi's themselves say it "whe-tta" (rhymes with "better")

[cgwolf]

I think both shops have had considerable advances in cg work and I dont think anyone can say their work sucks.

Its pretty simple, if anyone doesnt like the work thats been done before, simply do your own that surpasses it.

But you cant take away the brilliance that any of the artists have put forth to this point because its what has led CG to where it is today. Either way the sucesses of CG based films are a testament to our craft and it wont be going anywhere soon.

[phatlip]

you guys must remember when Rick McCallum was in NZ for a while and met some guys at WETA and saw what they were doing with previz and stuff told them to try animatics. He offered them to come to ILM and have a look at how they were doing it for the Starwars episodes. They popped over and learned some valuable information for their own work and were very grateful to ILM for it. Even Peter Jackson sends a shout out to ILM for thanking them.

i will always love the work ILM and WETA do and for what WETA have done in the last few years will always be remembered. It keeps both of those houses and others on their toes to push themselves even further.

[JohnD]

I have a pet Weta, and yeah, he's about as big as my forearm. He's got his own collar and leash too. I walk him around the block with a pooper scooper. I sure do get some strange looks. Even taught him to shake hands, roll over. Crazy stuff. And wouldn't you know it, his favorite food is Puppy Chow.

[BoydLake]

Originally posted by Leigh
Why do people always write Weta in capital letters? :surprised

The name is not an acronym - a weta is a massive insect that is native to New Zealand :)

Maybe it's because it's in capital letters all over their website?

:shrug:

:p

[victor throe]

does anyone know the running time of the hulk

its just i was so excited during attack of the clones that i had to rush out and take a piss during the big battle at the end

i got booooed by the people sitting behind me

and im fairly certain i will be as excited with hulk

i may consider taking precautions and instal some kind of hose to cup device

[JayCMiller]

ahah, Victor I think you'll be needing a bottle for the Hulk:)

[Cogliostros]

Hey Leigh...

The Kiwi's themselves say it "whe-tta" (rhymes with "better")

???

better in the US or better in the UK?

lol, cause 'better' in the US is 'bet-her' and better in the UK is something like 'bet-hah'

think... the scene in Danny Boyle's "The Beach" when Daffy takes a hit off the rolled up green stuff and says "Ohhhyyy now thats Beeetttah!

its pronoucned "wet-ah'

weeeeeee..... :bounce:

[Zappa]

so...how bout a movie where....Gollum takes on the hulk...and lets see who gets dirtier??

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[vizion]

lol..my vote for best comment made so far.

[jussing]

Originally posted by Cogliostros
better in the US or better in the UK?
Or better in New Zealand, pronounced "bitter"? Let's get this down, this stuff's important...

Oy, you know the joke about the american in Australia who has an accident?

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