Looping Procedural Noise

[tcastudios]

Animation Speed should typically be very small value (0.001 to maybe 0.2).
If it is zero nothing will happen.
Loop Period is just that. It is in seconds so if you want one loop, set it to
you project length (keep in mind the -actual- length of your project since
Cinema starts at frame zero by default).

To get a loop however, some noise shader also have a "Movement" parameter.
That must be set to zero or the texture will drift.

I must say that the introduction of looped noise within Cinema is one of the
best thing that have happened in my work.

-That- said, while Cinema loops fine, the shaders aren't tileable.
For that I use the excellent FluidNoise app that loops -and- tiles.
Super for making flowing waters etc.

Do check it at:
FluidNoise (http://www.fluidmac.com/fluidnoise/index.html)

Cheers
Lennart

[tcastudios]

Just let me add, the tiling is not primary for actual tiling but for
offsetting the texture over time to get the looped movement.
(By 100% per loop period)

Cheers
Lennart

[govinda]

So it loops but doesn't tile. It loops temporally but not spatially. Gotcha. Can't wait to check out that Fluid Noise app.

As for the animation speed, I do think this is supposed to be zero, but that's where the manual is glitchy. I've rendered a test of a noise with Animation Speed at 0 and Loop Period set to 10, matching my project length of 240 frames at 24fps. The noise moved just fine.

With those settings I put that noise above (the Poxo) on a cylinder doing a 180 degree turn for the camera. Mapping the noise on with 2 tiles on the x, it didn't loop.

[tcastudios]

Trust me (until someone else prove me wrong.

Animation Speed: A small value.
Loop Period: Whtever suits your goal.
Movement: -ZERO-. Movement doesn't loop, it "drifts".

A simple FluidNoise example here (http://homepage.mac.com/tcastudios/tempfiles/fnloop.mov)

Cheers
Lennart

[MidnightCow]

Yep, works fine as long as ur animation-speed is NOT set to 0.. (the manual is glitchy at parts)

[govinda]

Testing now. Bought Fluid Noise. Great tip--love those little utilities that solve one problem and solve it well.

[JoelOtron]

Lennart

If you set movement to "0" then how do you get it to loop or flow in parrticular direction---like in your fluid mac example?

Maybe you can keyframe / offset its UV position and set those keyframes to "offset repeat"?

[tcastudios]

The video example is a FluidNoise rendering used as a texture then
offset 100% over the looping time.
The Plane is a "single tile" and the ring is a 3x3 tile (SweepNurb Object).
Both use UW projection.

The offsetting trick doesn't work using a Cinema shader (to the best of my knowledge)
hence using FN instead.

The "strange" thing is, at some previews (in editor view) the Cinema shaders -seem-
to tile, but at render time they don't.
So maybe there is some magical number that would allow them to tile....?

Cheers
Lennart

[govinda]

Wow, FN really needs a completion bar to indicate how long its exports take. But for a $20 app it's doing just fine.

The variety of flavors of the former SLA noises in Cinema is really the bomb. Lennart, have you tried recreating some of that complexity by layering noises?

As for other options, I wonder if Chris Montesano's Enhance shaders loop and tile? Also, Fractal Noise in AE loops, not sure if it tiles, and anyway it's a hateful grind to mess with.

[tcastudios]

No haven't done any complex layering tests.

The only looped and tiled option out of AE that I know of (and I used before looped Cinema shaders and FN) is the Psunami Plugin by rendering out the heightmap of it.
It also have to be rendered "square" ( equal height and width)

Some of the Enhanced Shaders loop, but are a bit strange to get the right settings
and I don't think the loop and tile.

Cheers
Lennart

[JoelOtron]

The offsetting trick doesn't work using a Cinema shader (to the best of my knowledge)
hence using FN instead.

The "strange" thing is, at some previews (in editor view) the Cinema shaders -seem-
to tile, but at render time they don't.
So maybe there is some magical number that would allow them to tile....?

Cheers
Lennart

You know---Ive been pulling my hair out on this one. Interesting.
In many cases I'll use noise in a displace deformer to try to create the illusion of flowing displacement along a surface. And lately Ive noticed I can't get it to work, so needed to try other means (like animating the deformers position through an object). Nickl in Jenna used to have some directional noise controls. I think DPIT has as well.

[tcastudios]

Regarding looping geometry (using deformers) take a look at my ClothLooping tut
(up in the in the tut section)
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=95&t=638626

Using the PointCache Tag

Cheers
Lennart

[Per-Anders]

You must make sure you use the right space in the noise, local, global, object, texture and UV all have different uses, the shaders themselves also have controls for animation in different directions. You also can animate the displacer, texture tag settings and texture matrix to create these sorts of effects.

[tcastudios]

Yea, that is all true.
The holy grail, however, is the Loop -and- tile issue.

Cheers
Lennart

[georgedrakakis]

The offsetting trick doesn't work using a Cinema shader (to the best of my knowledge)
hence using FN instead.

The "strange" thing is, at some previews (in editor view) the Cinema shaders -seem-
to tile, but at render time they don't.
So maybe there is some magical number that would allow them to tile....?

what i've learned here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=47&t=656067)
is that the editor view works in 2D mode. if you are using "texture" in the space options, tiling doesn't work, you'll have to use the
global / relative scale parameters.

[tcastudios]

Just need to add/clarify (to the confusion:) ):

Looping is no problem.
Tiling, as such, is no problem.

It is -seamless- tiling that is the culprit.
If it can be done in Cinema, no one would be happier than me!
(And please make an example if it is possible)

FluidNoise and Psunami do loop (the "waving") and are at the same time
seamlessly tileable. (While not having the great variety of noises of Cinema)

The seamless tiling allows offsetting the texture over time (100% per loopcycle)
so we can get a true seamless loop that flows like clouds, water, fire etc.

Cheers
Lennart

[georgedrakakis]

Just need to add/clarify (to the confusion:) ):
It is -seamless- tiling that is the culprit.
The seamless tiling allows offsetting the texture over time (100% per loopcycle)
so we can get a true seamless loop that flows like clouds, water, fire etc.

hi Lennart,
could you post a simple example scene file demonstrating the problem?
maybe (just an idea) a distortion effect with "seemless" checked could solve the problem.

[tcastudios]

The initial setup to test is very simple.
Make a Plane.
Add a material with Noise in it.(Initially don't loop/animate the material)
At first frame, Keyframe the Offset (X and/or Y) in the TexTag at the default "0" procent.
At last frame, keyframe the Offset to 100%.

To be seamless, the first and last frame should look exactly the same
(with no seam visible during the animation).
(For a true loop, the last frame should be omitted but that's not the point here)

Cheers
Lennart

[Navstar]

How does this differ from After Effect's Fractal Noise plug-in?

[tcastudios]

You mean FluidNoise and Psunami?
They tile seamless.

Cheers
Lennart

[georgedrakakis]

hi,
i couldn't get offset to work, and i not that smart when it comes to animation, so i can't understand when the noise with offset animated actually loops.
perhaps if you want the offset to work, save (& bake?) the animated noise without offsetting, and then offset the animated sequense.
i should note again that i am not an animation guy.

ps: the noise without offset loops like a charm, as expected.

[Navstar]

Lennart, can you post your FluidNoise project you used in your sample Quicktime?

[tcastudios]

Here you go.

Cheers
Lennart

[Navstar]

Tack, gracias, and thanks!

[iTHiNK]

This thread saved me this week! Just wanted to say thanks for bringing it up Govinda.

:beer: Here's to getting out on time!

-Chris

[Navstar]

sorry... original deleted. posted in wrong place.

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