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View Full Version : Can you get reactor to create soft body dynamics on a Pflow particles?


thethule
07-24-2008, 08:54 PM
Hi all,

I am probably asking for a world of pain here, but i was wondering if reactor can work on particle systems?

I need to create a system of falling sheets of paper. I did a nice soft body animation last week of sheets of paper coming out of a photocopy machine, but those were objects. Can i apply reactor to the particle sheets of paper? Im pretty sure i cant, and if i can i would need Deep Blue to calculate it.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to do it otherwise? I was thinking of setting up a few different spiral gravities etc... and randomising the particles to each one. But that wont get the sheets to bend in the correct way...

Tough one, but i am sure it can be done convincingly.

Thanks in advanc.

JohnnyRandom
07-25-2008, 03:51 PM
I could be wrong but PFlow not at this time, maybe in the future with PF Tools but only time will tell.

AFAIK the only way to do it driven by particles would be with TP3.

Example video here:
http://www.cebas.com/products/feature.php?UD=10-7888-33-788&PID=15&FID=623

thethule
07-26-2008, 09:10 PM
Hmmm, thats what i thought. TP looks very interesting, ill investigate further. I am thinking of just doign this by hand. Instancing lots of sheets and applying the relevent soft body and wind attributes. I have done a very quick test and its looking ok so far, ill post a video later tonight.

Thanks

marc

CapitanRed
07-27-2008, 11:53 PM
what deformation are you after? If you just want the papers to be bended while falling,and flaten when they get on the floor, you cold fake the effect by passing particles into a new event, where the animation of flattening is started. if you want them to get edges folded, it will be a hard one. maybe attatching objects to particles.
then when they are on a specific height near floor, delete the particle. so the objects animation will stop. bake the animation. then use reactor from this frame.
but I'm not sure if you can set reactor to take animation into account and simulate from the last frame. or something like that.
but at least you could get your motion with particles, and do only the reactor by hand.

But of course, TP would be the simpliest way to try :)

floopyb
07-28-2008, 02:01 AM
You could try baking the first bit of your animation out with this particle baking script, then adding them to a reactor sim.
Can be very fiddly as you dont want them to be intersecting and you can only really start the sim at one discrete frame. So you cant add the particles to the sim at different frames.

http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/pflow-baker

thethule
07-28-2008, 09:35 PM
I dont need to see the particles hittign the floor which is a plus. I am currently trying to get some planes with a cloth modifier attached to float in the wind. They are floating and bending nnicely, but i cant get the wind noise parametres to work yet. Gotta keep trying.

I did consider using Pflow somehow, but i cant any way of getting the paper to bend in the CORRECT manner depending on its speed and direction. I think that if that is off and the bending is random, it will be noticeable.

floopyb, that sound like a very good idea. I have never done that though, but will give it a try tonight. So what you are saying is get Pflow set up to get the nice movement on the sheets then apply reactor to that..Sounds good.

Ill post my WIP later on tonight. I thought i had something good yesterday, but didnt end well..

Thanks for the help guys

CapitanRed
07-28-2008, 09:40 PM
hmm...I wonder if this is possible to do, so it looks like the papers react to the air.
another thing you could do to try to fake it is to use the mesher compound, and then add a noise spacewrap deformation to the mesh...

thethule
07-28-2008, 09:44 PM
yeah, but again, the deformations wont match the movement of the paper. Dynamics of some sort or definately needed..I wonder if flex would work.....

Ill post a scene shortly....

thethule
07-28-2008, 10:47 PM
Here is a wip...im not concerned with the fact that the cloth isnt stiff enough on the paper, im just concentrating on the motion for now.

I tried the Pflow baker, and it works nicely, but reactor isnt keeping the sheets initial motion. As soon as i calculate reactor, it replaces all the keys, so its basically the same as this method.

Is there anyway of gettign reactor to work alongside position keys? Maybe by adding multiple controllers....

http://savefile.com/projects/808668990

Its a max 2009 scene

thethule
07-28-2008, 11:06 PM
Posted a new file, got the paper looking a bit better...now i just need to get it to fall down and not outwards...and then stiffen the paperhttp://www.savefile.com/files/1694532

floopyb
07-29-2008, 04:22 AM
If you bake out the particles from frame 0 to frame 10 you need to start your reactor sim at frame 9. It will "Eat" the last baked key and replace it with a reactor created key, so hold/saving the scene is a good idea b4 simming.

JohnnyRandom
07-29-2008, 03:39 PM
Interesting idea Jordan :)

thethule
07-29-2008, 05:18 PM
I dont understand how that would work though. It will only pick up the keyframes from the first 9 frames and then just float down. I need the swaing noisy motion throughout.

thethule
07-29-2008, 05:32 PM
I GOT IT!


SIMCLOTH! Thank you simcloth. It lets you use space warps to control the cloth. Working well so far, ill post later on.

thethule
07-30-2008, 04:42 PM
Here you go guys, in case anyone is interested. Simcloth saved the day, i forgot what an easy and fast plugin it is. Love it.


http://www.savefile.com/files/1697957 (http://www.savefile.com/files/1697957)

Thanks all for your for your help and im happy to send out a scene if anyone wants it, msg me

Marc

CapitanRed
07-30-2008, 05:53 PM
hey, awesome you got it to work. Would it be possible to upload a small preview or something? I'm two max versions behind you ;)

JohnnyRandom
07-30-2008, 06:52 PM
Excellent, nice work:)

thethule
07-30-2008, 09:09 PM
hey, awesome you got it to work. Would it be possible to upload a small preview or something? I'm two max versions behind you ;)


Sure, there is a preview up, but i did it in max2008, so you will need to use that if you want to open it. Ill post the scene as well, hold on.

Its a shame i spent 2 days trying to figure it out with Pflow and Reactor, and in the end managed to do it in 30 mins with simcloth and a few space warps.

There are 3 in total, one general turbulence one, wind speed set to 0. One wind with a falloff on it to push the papers off initially as they needed to look like they were being pushed and finally a drag force that kisks in at frame 40 and slows the x axis speed of the papers so they dont continue and go off screen.

Max scene should be up in ten minsn if anyone is interested in downloading it.

Marc

thethule
07-30-2008, 09:18 PM
here you go:

http://www.savefile.com/files/1698398

CapitanRed
07-31-2008, 10:39 AM
looks very good man! :)
so no pflow use there, right?

thethule
07-31-2008, 12:20 PM
Thanks!


No, no Pflow used.

PsychoSilence
08-12-2008, 10:54 PM
lets not forget bobo´s link objects to particles script!

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__MovingObjects.htm

second screen is the exact same script without using space warps to link...

third one is using the noise geomety deformer and a particle system for falling money...might be interesting for u...the animated force influence gives nice kinda turbulence and irregular forces to them. i would use box3 for such a stunt tho or a script. just right click the force and select "Use Script Wiring" and select influence.

kind regards,
Anselm

thethule
08-22-2008, 05:05 PM
Ummm...but these sheets of paper wont bend and flex independantly like my cloth ones do. or am i missing something? i dont think you could ever get a result similar to the one i wanted without using some form of dynamics.

Good script though. Very handy

davius
08-23-2008, 03:58 AM
I hope my question does'nt create controversy here, but how is simcloth diferent than reactor cloth (better/worse, in what terms?)

Also, is simcloth still free (heard it went open souce) and if yes, where can I download it (max9 here)?

Thanks guys, but I was looking for a loooong time for a plugin like that for Max... just couldn't do it with reactor so this is the reason for my 1º question. :p

PsychoSilence
08-24-2008, 04:58 PM
Ummm...but these sheets of paper wont bend and flex independantly like my cloth ones do. or am i missing something? i dont think you could ever get a result similar to the one i wanted without using some form of dynamics.

Good script though. Very handy

Well, animate your paper as u want it to move/behave :) the particle system simply links them to the pivot of a particle and transforms it according to the particleTM.

thethule
08-30-2008, 02:29 AM
I hope my question does'nt create controversy here, but how is simcloth diferent than reactor cloth (better/worse, in what terms?)

Also, is simcloth still free (heard it went open souce) and if yes, where can I download it (max9 here)?

Thanks guys, but I was looking for a loooong time for a plugin like that for Max... just couldn't do it with reactor so this is the reason for my 1º question. :p

Well, for one thing, i couldnt do what i wanted with reactor. I wanted space warps to affect my cloth and in Reactor, thats not yet possible. With simcloth it was easy as pie. i have always liked simcloth, for one, its free and its very fast and very very easy to use. I dont tend to use it though, unless for special things like this as reactor is also excellent.

But for quick cloth sims and dynamics definately give it a try.


Go to maxplugins.de to download it.

thethule
08-30-2008, 02:30 AM
Well, animate your paper as u want it to move/behave :) the particle system simply links them to the pivot of a particle and transforms it according to the particleTM.

True, but thats still not real dynamics..but definately a worthy alternative.

marc

simonenastasi
11-11-2008, 02:23 PM
can I ask why simcloth and not max's cloth modifier?

thethule
11-16-2008, 01:49 AM
Because simcloth lets you assign max spacewarps to the cloth. In this instance i used a few wind and gravity spacewarps to affect the cloth. As far as i can tell, max cloth doesnt allow you to do that...

JonathanFreisler
11-16-2008, 02:05 AM
wait yes you can. Max cloth modifier you can add forces to them by clicking on the 'force' button, a dialog box comes up, and you tell it which ones to use.

thethule
11-16-2008, 02:14 AM
Well, there you go then. You learn something new everyday.... :p

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