Humans To Go

[flingster]

hell why not...
maybe a life saver for someone working to a tight deadline.

not for me...but horses for courses.

[pit]

What Flingster said!
Not for me - but I can see the use of it. A Poser killer....... ;)

[flingster]

PIT: are its pit with a new avatar...does this mean he has been working on his jester...wanna see more of that model...its to damn cool...ooh and by the way been using your tip about cloning points/polys when poly modelling....jeez a life saver...my poly placement is so much quicker and better...been meaning to thank you so...there it is..:thumbsup:

[JoelOtron]

I wouldnt call it a poser killer--but a definite help. I just tghink they are the ugliest mcels I've ever seen personally---the guys here in the forum have done better work. I mean look at the shoulders on the surf chick.

And doesnt look like the faces can be morphed. Plus 1ts $179 where the Victoria 3 model which has pretty much unlimited morphs (can even morph to a man and several ethnicities and ages) is only $30.

I've been hoping for something like this to make my life easier, but not to happy with the quality. Meg and Otto are much better than these IMO.

But they serve a purpose and I'll pronbabaly buy it just to have available to me.

[flingster]

lol...
why not get victoria then...export different morphs etc...and then use a standard rig...voila...money saving offer...heh heh.
it did seem expensive though..

[JoelOtron]

Thats exactly what i do fling--worked out great on my last project--which I will post here once I am allowed.

[flingster]

my feelings were always why the hell do people bother re-inventing the wheel...you know why do they bother remaking humans anyway when there are perfectly good models knocking about...but now I think RESPECT the modeller...heh heh...if I could and I had the time and knowledge to make my own model...I would...no doubt...I guess its a little different in your case as youre using it at work...but for a personal project i think there is only one route....

if it were me for work i would go for best result eg victoria route me thinks...but the rigs i suppose would also help with the other package....anyway can't you export from poser bvh files and pretend it was captured...dunno...maybe i'm just confused...
anyways.

[JoelOtron]

Originally posted by flingster
my feelings were always why the hell do people bother re-inventing the wheel...you know why do they bother remaking humans anyway when there are perfectly good models knocking about...but now I think RESPECT the modeller...heh heh...if I could and I had the time and knowledge to make my own model...I would...no doubt...I guess its a little different in your case as youre using it at work...but for a personal project i think there is only one route....

if it were me for work i would go for best result eg victoria route me thinks...but the rigs i suppose would also help with the other package....anyway can't you export from poser bvh files and pretend it was captured...dunno...maybe i'm just confused...
anyways.



My personal rules of character animation are that if you are using a model for pre viz or for use in an animation where you are explaining somet concept (as I do a lot with the medical animation I do) then stock models are perfectly the best way to go. In those cases the character isnt really the focus of the work but its used in a schematic way to get an idea across.

If you are creating your own short animation for a personal project where the characters are the heart of the story, I think, as an artist, one should attempt to develop there own characters and learn the craft. Thats my goal at least. If your project is deadline and budget constrained, then use the tools available and get the job done. But I have a problem with people who call themselves character animators, and when it gets right down to it, are totally dpendent on the stock choices available.

I use bvh files and stock models from time to time. But if I were hired to do a character driven project or started my own project just for fun, it would be really important to me that it was all mine from start to finish.

I guess everyone has there own ideas on this.

[AdamT]

I can imagine buying it, but it's not likely. And who did the walk/jog cycle for the treadmill movie? What's with that head wagging back and forth? Seems like they should have come up with a better animation.

[pit]

"Poser killer" was meant as a joke, hence the ... ;)

My personal rules of character animation are that if you are using a model for pre viz or for use in an animation where you are explaining somet concept (as I do a lot with the medical animation I do) then stock models are perfectly the best way to go. In those cases the character isnt really the focus of the work but its used in a schematic way to get an idea across.

If you are creating your own short animation for a personal project where the characters are the heart of the story, I think, as an artist, one should attempt to develop there own characters and learn the craft. Thats my goal at least. If your project is deadline and budget constrained, then use the tools available and get the job done. But I have a problem with people who call themselves character animators, and when it gets right down to it, are totally dpendent on the stock choices available.


Agree on that!

Joel, why not model and rig your own low poly standard figures for previz?
Lack of time I bet, but would be more satisfying.


@Flingster: The jester is slowly coming along - working on the textures right now - all handpainted, so it´ll take a while. I´ll post the progress soon. Also waiting for transluency pro - wanna give it a try.

[JoelOtron]

I know pit--didnt mean anything by the post other than to get on my soap box :)


I would ultimately love to develop my own custom figures and rigs--thats on the list of things to do. I also realize that those 2 things are an art to itself--and I want to take the time to do it right.

I the meantime I go with whats fast.

A lot of the work you guys have domne on cgTalk inspired me to start work on my own figure--just gotta find the time to do it :(

[pit]

just gotta find the time to do it :(



Know that problem all to well :cry:

Out of curiosity: what kind of med viz do you do? In the range of Jeff Johnson or something completely different? Interesting field..

Cheers

[JoelOtron]

I would not say that my work comes anywhere close to Jeff Johnson. But yes, similar kinds of stuff in terms of subjects. Pharma, broadcast, and multimedia animation for the web too.

[pit]

"in the range of" was wrong -> didn´t mean qualitywise, just "same as".
Jeff Johnson really would be tough to compete with - some stunning work!

Sounds like a very cool job all the same :thumbsup:

[sanciok]

I agree with the others... not for me... But can br helpful in some way...
I have a question for you JoelD: Isn't it that one your MOCCA rig, downloadable from the Plugin Cafe'??
Personally i consider the zygote models too much clichè...
:beer: :wavey:

[JoelOtron]

No way--not mine. I've never actually done one yet. :)

Havent gotten into CA/rigging yet.

I'm working with some others on a character anim project for a different market/client, but I am just doing the modelling and other animation stuff for it at the moment. The character animator I'm working with is amazing--really understands how the figure moves--unfortunately, he's doing it all in Maya, which helps me see why its such a strong package in terms of CA, and why so many people complain about C4d's CA tools who have used Maya.

I just got Motionbuilder and I'm hoping I have some time this summer to dive in. I'm hoping we have our fbx I/O plugin soon also.

[anobrin]

Originally posted by JoelD
But I have a problem with people who call themselves character animators, and when it gets right down to it, are totally dpendent on the stock choices available.



DO you mean Stock human models or stock Motions??
I know many great carpenters who Dont actually harvest thier own trees and Mill their own planks and boards.
but can build great structures with "stock" lumber from the yards.

These new poseresque "dummies" for C4DXL
just stand their looking lifeless until you actually animate them
just like poser figures do.
I think MAXON is smart to realize that not every one feels that
enduring C4D's tedious vertex weight /restriction tag procedure
will make them a better animator or create a better Demo reel.:applause:

I can see how these new premade dummies might be useful in some limited ways directly in cinema
but they are certainly are no DAZ millenium figures .. thats for sure

:surprised

[JoelOtron]

Originally posted by anobrin
I know many great carpenters who Dont actually harvest thier own trees and Mill their own planks and boards.
but can build great structures with "stock" lumber from the yards.



I think a closer analogy would be comparing a great carpenter to the guy who's plopping together his new IKEA entertainment unit with the little "uni-tool" thing that comes with it, and feeling proud of what a handyman he is-
This pretty much describes the extent of my carpentry skills.

I guess I have a love-hate relationship with Poser. I like it and use it for a lot of things I do--and it saves my ass, but I'm not personally satisfied as an artist using it exclusively for these kinds of tasks. My goal is to learn more and to become a better artist.

I have a friend who teaches Maya C.A. at a big art school in NYC and we have debates about cookie cutter software from time to time. He's a purist by nature, and I'm usually the guy defending the low end users and software out there. He's dead set against Poser and motion capture--and in many cases 3d animation--even though he teaches it. But I do see his point. Animation is not about software--its an artform. Many people dive in because they can get somewhat professional results quickly with Poser and Bryce and other plugins and tools. The problem is, theres no where to go from there, other than learning technical tricks, if you don't have the foundation of understanding of the artform. The Poser website has some really attrocious animations on it that show that the user had no frame of reference, had no idea what they were doing---but the guy had a matrix uniform so it was cool. There have been a few Bryce and poser pieces I've seen that transcend the programs themselves--where you look at it and dont find yourself saying "thats poser" or "thats bryce". Its the old "software is only as good as the user" thing that comes up often.

I will use Poser as i have to, and have fun with it from time to time, and there may be some poser pieces that make it into my reel, but not in the context that i would call "character animation". If I were going for a character animation gig, I'd be kidding myself to think even the most fluid, thoughtful, clever, expressive Poser examples I'd have in my reel would help me to get hired for a real CA job.

Anyway--sorry for the long post--you know how I get about these things.

And I agree--the humans module thing is a good idea, I just wish they picked more tasteful character models at least.

And I am just beginning to discover how well done Victoria 3 is as a product/resource. Its come along way since Poser 2.

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