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View Full Version : mentalray,renderman or vray????????????????


mostafabibin
07-12-2008, 06:19 PM
i want to know which software you use for rendering.
so vote for a software.
thank

dohkeehock
07-13-2008, 04:57 AM
now still use vray, thinking to switch back to Mr.

seifneo
07-13-2008, 03:43 PM
Mental Ray for ever ! :bowdown:

CgKumar
07-14-2008, 09:46 AM
Wow, first one to poll for Renderman. Anyway, i was a big Mental Ray guy, till i found Renderman.

playmesumch00ns
07-14-2008, 01:26 PM
RenderMan, specifically, PRMan.

MF3dream
07-14-2008, 05:52 PM
I think we can't actually compare these renderers together...BECAUSE renderman is very powerfull ones IF and IF you are a shader writer with an artistic vision and imagination:scream:.
You can tweak Renderman for ever until you get what you want and also PRman is very efficient when rendering blurry effects and things like displacment maps. It has some basic shaders and procedural maps like noise...etc but for implementing hourse power of it you'll need custom shaders...now thats time for math classroom:argh:.
So you need another renderer and.....in terms of highest quality vray somking the road compared to MR, with sacrificing more time...
MR is really good in terms of quallity and management and you can use it for animations but for reaching to realistic results you must have more complex and layerd materials as GENERAL.

these are my opinions and if someone have other ideas I'm hungry to hear:scream:.Thanks

CgKumar
07-15-2008, 05:32 AM
I dont quite agree, now that Renderman comes in more flavours, you dont actually need to be a shader writer. You now use maya nodes and have your shaders work in renderman. So Hands Down Renderman Baby!

fabis
07-15-2008, 07:03 AM
I don't think there is a reason for comparison, because all this renderers become more and more similar. I saw in this great site so many different but perfect works which was maked with VRay and Mental Ray, not much with PRMan, but 'Ratatouille' is a better instance. So, why need to choose? It's time to try :)

mister3d
07-15-2008, 07:38 AM
I thought whis poll was not about "which one is better", but simply "what you use".
Mental ray in max2009 is really looks much closer to vray than 4 years ago, but vray doesn't stand still and has amazing improvements in quality of GI and speed(60% faster and very clean GI). And let's not forget it has 90% of archviz market, which is huge, and this is a user base, who won't switch in one day to a new engine. Vray is popular because it's very fast, and has everything an average joe needs organised neatly. I'm not sure if Brazil and Finalrender are still popular. Though it would be interesting to compare the speed of new mental and vray.
I'm also wondering why they started tuning mental ray to the archciz sector, what could be the reason? The primary software is anyway max, or they are afraid of migrating vray on other packages and losing its share?

mostafabibin
07-15-2008, 09:51 AM
mentalray is good for creating realistic look
and prman is good for cartoon animation

CgKumar
07-15-2008, 11:14 AM
I use Final Render and it works like a charm. I mainly use it to bake out maps and other GI stuff.

playmesumch00ns
07-15-2008, 12:38 PM
mentalray is good for creating realistic look
and prman is good for cartoon animation

That is wrong.

hakanpersson
07-15-2008, 01:27 PM
That is wrong.

Heh, maybe not wrong, just very very generalized. Like cheese is good for sandwiches:)

Though I think this comparison is just silly and there's time for sticky-warning about starting new renderer & 3dapp comparison-threads. The history keeps repeating itself over and over.

mostafabibin
07-15-2008, 02:11 PM
i dont know how i should tell that this just a user comparsion
not software.
and about the other one i should say this is written that mentalray is good for vfx movie and so on

playmesumch00ns
07-15-2008, 03:00 PM
Heh, maybe not wrong, just very very generalized. Like cheese is good for sandwiches:)

Though I think this comparison is just silly and there's time for sticky-warning about starting new renderer & 3dapp comparison-threads. The history keeps repeating itself over and over.

No, it's wrong. Any renderer can make realistic images, it's just a question of how long it takes to get there and who's driving :) When you start making comparisons like that then yeah, we get into "my renderer is better than yours" territory.

Besides it's doubly wrong since most photorealistic visual effects (certainly every oscar winner since 2001) are rendered in prman.

hakanpersson
07-15-2008, 03:55 PM
No, it's wrong. Any renderer can make realistic images


I meant that he was not actually saying that prman is BAD for realistic renders, just that mental ray is good for it:) Though if you express it differently it has some truth, mental ray is probably not the best choice for making a cartoon movie, but its a good choice if you want to make realistic renders. Anyway, pointless to argue;)


mostafabibin: use mental ray, slowly trying to convert to 3delight.

mostafabibin
07-15-2008, 04:27 PM
you knoe the best thing is that mentalray is older than the other
th gi system was in mentalray before prman use it
and a very important thing as it was alias choose to maya partner

mostafabibin
07-15-2008, 04:30 PM
ok
3D MAX and MAYA both hane ability to create video game and animation
but why maya is more used in aniamtion than max and vice versa for game
max is used more in game???????????

ic300
07-15-2008, 04:37 PM
im gonna say Mental Ray cuz its the one i have lol

playmesumch00ns
07-15-2008, 05:22 PM
ok
3D MAX and MAYA both hane ability to create video game and animation
but why maya is more used in aniamtion than max and vice versa for game
max is used more in game???????????

Historical reasons I think. Once a certain critical mass of people working within a certain sector of the industry use one piece of software, then everybody has to, because all the available jobs are based on using that software.

MF3dream
07-15-2008, 07:01 PM
I think still lots of studios use 3ds max for at least the modeling part of their animations...

ranuose
07-17-2008, 10:00 AM
Renderman... for my personal reel work. (new user though)
3Delight and not PRman just because they offer the first lisence free.
Mental Ray where I work.
as Good as Mental Ray is... I'm not a fan of it's integration with Maya.

-Mina

jude3d
07-19-2008, 09:30 PM
Renderman of course and only PRMAN because it offer the best quality and the best improvements for our production . I love the beta 14,and more commonly the ability to create what ever you want as shader, DSO and plugin, love the fast displacement, the sampling quality of texture and rendering, the motion blur and the dof speed. Of course we like to use GI or reflection with point based, and the power of deep shadow, point cloud and brickmap API. the ability to use raytrace on demand on hyper huge scene is a bonus and the last upcoming new features are amazing too. the rib archiving is a must have feature in a renderer, soft shadow map, coshader and many more...

we tryed all available renderer and renderman is the best for the production quality we need, vray GI is good but the texture sampling is not, same in final render or MR, and they suffer of memory problem in our big scene.

So for me renderman is the best renderer but need also good skills, knowledge and experience to be used at full potential.

mostafabibin
07-20-2008, 12:22 AM
mental ray is a production-quality rendering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendering_%28computer_graphics%29) application developed by mental images (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Images_%28firm%29) (Berlin, Germany). Mental Images was bought in December 2007 by Nvidia. As the name implies, it supports ray tracing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_tracing) to generate images. Its feature set is comparable to that of PhotoRealistic RenderMan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhotoRealistic_RenderMan), the RenderMan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RenderMan) compliant renderer by Pixar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar), over which it holds certain advantages and disadvantages. For example, features like global illumination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_illumination) were supported by mental ray long before they could be found in PRman. Which renderer is faster is subject of heated debates: Certain rendering tasks can be much faster in PRman (albeit usually at the expense of true physical accuracy) while others are much faster in mental ray (e.g. computations involving heavy ray tracing or global illumination).

mental ray has been used in several feature films, including Hulk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulk_%28film%29), The Matrix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Matrix) Reloaded & Revolutions, Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_II:_Attack_of_the_Clones), The Day After Tomorrow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After_Tomorrow) and lately in Poseidon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poseidon_%28film%29).



The primary feature of mental ray is the achievement of high performance through parallelism on both multiprocessor machines and across render farms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_farm). The software uses acceleration techniques such as scanline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanline_rendering) for primary visible surface determination and binary space partitioning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_space_partitioning) for secondary rays. It also supports caustics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caustic_%28optics%29) and physically correct simulation of global illumination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_illumination) employing photon maps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_mapping). Any combination of diffuse, glossy (soft or scattered), and specular reflection and transmission can be simulated.

mental ray was designed to be integrated into a third-party application using an API (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/API) or be used as a standalone program using the .mi scene file format for batch-mode rendering. Up to this moment there are many programs integrating this renderer such as Autodesk Maya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_%28software%29), 3ds Max (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_Studio_Max), AutoCAD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AutoCAD), and Revit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revit), Softimage|XSI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softimage_XSI), Side Effects Software's Houdini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houdini_%28software%29), SolidWorks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SolidWorks) and Dassault Système's CATIA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CATIA). Most of these software front-ends provide their own library of custom shaders (described below). However assuming these shaders are available to mental ray, any mi file can be rendered, regardless of the software that generated it.

mental ray is fully programmable, supporting linked subroutines also called shaders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shader) written in C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_%28programming_language%29) or C++ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B). This feature can be used to create geometric elements at runtime of the renderer, procedural textures, bump and displacement maps, atmosphere and volume effects, environments, camera lenses, and light sources.

Supported geometric primitives include polygons, subdivision surfaces, and trimmed free-form surfaces such as NURBS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NURBS), Bézier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9zier_curve), and Taylor monomial.

Phenomena consist of one or more shader trees (DAG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed_acyclic_graph)). A phenomenon looks like regular shader to the user, and in fact may be a regular shader, but generally it will contain a link to a shader DAG, which may include the introduction or modification of geometry, introduction of lenses, environments, and compile options. The idea of a Phenomenon is to package elements and hide complexity.

In 2003, mental images was awarded an Academy Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Awards) for their contributions to the mental ray rendering software for motion pictures.

all the information in here is used from wikipedia.org database

MinaRagaie
07-20-2008, 08:10 PM
Renderman... for my personal reel work. (new user though)
3Delight and not PRman just because they offer the first lisence free.
Mental Ray where I work.
as Good as Mental Ray is... I'm not a fan of it's integration with Maya.

-Mina
That's my post... someone logged in with a different account on my work computer and I didn't notice!!

inguatu
07-21-2008, 12:24 AM
I think still lots of studios use 3ds max for at least the modeling part of their animations...

which ones? that's news to me.

inguatu
07-21-2008, 12:26 AM
MR is really good in terms of quallity and management and you can use it for animations but for reaching to realistic results you must have more complex and layerd materials as GENERAL.

these are my opinions and if someone have other ideas I'm hungry to hear:scream:.Thanks

that's actually not true. With the addition of mat x it's easier to have an all in one shader that you plug in to. Also, I've used standard maya shaders with proper textures and nodes to create realistic results.

MF3dream
07-21-2008, 08:14 PM
Thanks inguatu for your comments...Here is an example of implementation of MAX in animations from AKAMA Studio:
Originally wrote in
http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=4444 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=5276739#post5276739)

the building and all the props were modeled in 3ds Max by three others digital artists. The setup, character rigging and the animation were made using key frames by five animators on 3ds Max. Finally, four digital artists with V-Ray did the process of lighting and rendering, and two of them were also supervising an important part
of this project.

Originally posted by inguatu
that's actually not true. With the addition of mat x it's easier to have an all in one shader that you plug in to. Also, I've used standard maya shaders with proper textures and nodes to create realistic results.

about that you're right...Thanks.

mostafabibin
07-22-2008, 10:46 AM
they never will use max as modeling and maya as animation
because the topology is very important
so maya is responsible for any part of production

CliffStHubert
07-23-2008, 06:42 PM
I use Mr because I'm still trying to learn how to use Vray., But I will always love Mr.

faultymoose
07-24-2008, 03:08 PM
Wow, first one to poll for Renderman. Anyway, i was a big Mental Ray guy, till i found Renderman.

Couldn't agree more! Started using Renderman (specifically, 3Delight) and at first, my thoughts were "Why would anyone use this complicated, archaic crap?!". And then a week later, "OMG Why would anyone use ANYTHING ELSE?!"

Not exactly "point and click" rendering, but definitely the most hassle-free renderer I've ever used, brilliantly simple when you start to look into RSL, and by far the fastest, most amazing outputs. And I've NEVER had a single crash or memory issue. It's ridiculously stable, even when dealing with huge, complicated renders containing masses of geometry and high resolution textures, with DOF and motion blur and raytraced reflection/refraction and AO and indirect illumination all thrown on top. It does take a fair bit more work to get high end results out of, initially, but once you get the hang of it, the low level control is marvelous.

MF3dream
07-24-2008, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by faultymoose
It does take a fair bit more work to get high end results out of, initially, but once you get the hang of it, the low level control is marvelous.

Can you tell us a little more about how we can get the hang of it please?!!
With writing custom shaders or by having more layered materials?

faultymoose
07-25-2008, 12:17 AM
Can you tell us a little more about how we can get the hang of it please?!!
With writing custom shaders or by having more layered materials?

RSL, mostly. If you have any scripting experience, it's extremely high level and quite easy to get the hang of. More complicated work needs more complicated math, but if I need anything more indepth than some layered noise (which is surprisingly versatile) then I simply use 3Delight for Maya's Hypershade > RSL integration. The ability to build your hypershade network and then plug in Renderman Code nodes where needed is just... it blows my mind.

RSL is a high level language, very easy to get an understanding of it, but it gives you a very low level control of the renderer. You really can 'hack' almost anything, because you're in control of almost every element of the rendering algorithm.

If you want to learn RSL, I highly recommend "The Renderman Shading Language Guide" by Rudy Cortes, and Saty Raghavachary.

IMO though, the true strength of Renderman (in this case, 3Delight) is the REYES rendering algorithm. It's unbelievably memory efficient, and due to the way it dices an image, you can work with gigabytes of textures and billions of polygons with zero memory issues. The non-technical explanation would be: Renderman subdivides all of your geometry into micropolygons, and renders the corners of the polygons rather than the surface area. The end result is that you'll usually have micropolygons that are less than the size of a single pixel, resulting in perfect displacement, and perfect subdivision (zero polygon faceting unless you specifically want that). In most cases, RMan only loads what is needed for the current bucket, meaning you can render immense scenes with only a small memory footprint. These are only a tiny few of the advantages. I highly suggest looking into it!

mostafabibin
07-30-2008, 01:05 AM
finally we have found out that mentalray is most used software for rendering.so its old and must be the first one.

CgKumar
07-30-2008, 10:34 AM
Any Links for Online Tutorials on RSL faultymoose?

mlykke
07-30-2008, 01:36 PM
niether

I use Brazil

Leotril
07-30-2008, 09:22 PM
finally we have found out that mentalray is most used software for rendering.so its old and must be the first one.

wrong statement.. renderman wins :drool:

Saturn
08-02-2008, 11:01 AM
Couldn't agree more! Started using Renderman (specifically, 3Delight) and at first, my thoughts were "Why would anyone use this complicated, archaic crap?!". And then a week later, "OMG Why would anyone use ANYTHING ELSE?!"

Not exactly "point and click" rendering, but definitely the most hassle-free renderer I've ever used, brilliantly simple when you start to look into RSL, and by far the fastest, most amazing outputs. And I've NEVER had a single crash or memory issue. It's ridiculously stable, even when dealing with huge, complicated renders containing masses of geometry and high resolution textures, with DOF and motion blur and raytraced reflection/refraction and AO and indirect illumination all thrown on top. It does take a fair bit more work to get high end results out of, initially, but once you get the hang of it, the low level control is marvelous.

That's pretty much the case of any modern renderer...

Saturn
08-02-2008, 11:11 AM
RSL, mostly. If you have any scripting experience, it's extremely high level and quite easy to get the hang of. More complicated work needs more complicated math, but if I need anything more indepth than some layered noise (which is surprisingly versatile) then I simply use 3Delight for Maya's Hypershade > RSL integration. The ability to build your hypershade network and then plug in Renderman Code nodes where needed is just... it blows my mind.

RSL is a high level language, very easy to get an understanding of it, but it gives you a very low level control of the renderer. You really can 'hack' almost anything, because you're in control of almost every element of the rendering algorithm.

If you want to learn RSL, I highly recommend "The Renderman Shading Language Guide" by Rudy Cortes, and Saty Raghavachary.

IMO though, the true strength of Renderman (in this case, 3Delight) is the REYES rendering algorithm. It's unbelievably memory efficient, and due to the way it dices an image, you can work with gigabytes of textures and billions of polygons with zero memory issues. The non-technical explanation would be: Renderman subdivides all of your geometry into micropolygons, and renders the corners of the polygons rather than the surface area. The end result is that you'll usually have micropolygons that are less than the size of a single pixel, resulting in perfect displacement, and perfect subdivision (zero polygon faceting unless you specifically want that). In most cases, RMan only loads what is needed for the current bucket, meaning you can render immense scenes with only a small memory footprint. These are only a tiny few of the advantages. I highly suggest looking into it!

That's not totally true.... You can run into memory issues with PRman like any others renderer if don't take care of what you are doing (eg Raytracing thing that you don't need ). Mental Ray for instances got a similar approach as REYES called Rasterizer. Some may argue that it's a lame implementation of REYES, but at the end of the day most the users will not see and/or understand why it is lame because it is working pretty well for 95% of your need if you ask me.

Beside this, when you use a renderer as open as renderman or should we call that a framework. You spend 80% of your time to reinvent the wheel than doing your image. That a choice of life.....

The question today isn't to know which render is better. But which render have the better integration and the workflow for the software I am using ?

mostafabibin
08-08-2008, 09:32 PM
mentalray is better than that 2 because it used by industry pro software companies

CgKumar
08-11-2008, 05:43 AM
Either way, its the user that the most important,

' for a warrior even a blade of grass is a weapon '

But i am sure when your requirements increase when your talents increase, you will look for bigger things.

inguatu
08-11-2008, 11:34 AM
mentalray is better than that 2 because it used by industry pro software companies

heh... renderman is used in more movies than Mental Ray.

playmesumch00ns
08-11-2008, 12:00 PM
My Renderer Is Better Than Your Renderer So Nerrrr

mister3d
08-11-2008, 12:08 PM
Vray rules them out all, thats... thats rhetorical! And it's bigger, in size.

greyface
08-14-2008, 02:12 AM
mentalray is better than that 2 because it used by industry pro software companies

lol.

Anyway, I'm on mental ray, would like to learn rman someday though. Can anyone comment on the differences between 3delight and prman? Any difference in output?

kmest
08-15-2008, 02:32 PM
i use Prman and its great....
its so true that you can achive a good looking image with less knowladge,very easy in Vray...
its harder to achive the same quality in mental ray and much more harder to gain the same image in renderman,,,
so you may say Vray is better
BUT
in big industries its not about which one is easier,its about how deep you can go into the engine and explore new things,how good you can manage your scenes and RIB librarys and how many new shaders and light shaders you can creat and manage the whole sequence,this is why big studioes mainy use Renderman based engines,like prman or Air,yes they do use other engines like mental ray but the main engine is always renderman.....
its much harder to learn and takes more time to achive a realstick image but when you learn it,it will give you your reward ....and its fast,,amazinngly fast and you can make it to be faster too....

mostafabibin
08-15-2008, 05:38 PM
i think as we see and as some replies are reminding that now they(greate studios) are looking for how large a software can be and how you can reach great and new interactive tecniques that may be unavailable in some software(as some of them give you easy navigation and result)
mentalray and renderman are good at this level and all the other software only stay back.
i ask for people who can take the information to give us data about use of both mentalray and prman together in a production.

mister3d
08-15-2008, 06:55 PM
i think as we see and as some replies are reminding that now they(greate studios) are looking for how large a software can be and how you can reach great and new interactive tecniques that may be unavailable in some software(as some of them give you easy navigation and result)
mentalray and renderman are good at this level and all the other software only stay back.
i ask for people who can take the information to give us data about use of both mentalray and prman together in a production.

Please prove that vray is not used in production in famous studios. And yet you have to prove what exact benefits mental ray provides instead of vray. Such claims must be supported.

Mauritius
08-16-2008, 04:02 AM
Can anyone comment on the differences between 3delight and prman? Any difference in output?
None that I'm aware of, really for 99% of the stuff people do with these renderers.
See this thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=548605); almost a year old but most I said in my reply there still applies.

.mm

playmesumch00ns
08-16-2008, 12:43 PM
Please prove that vray is not used in production in famous studios. And yet you have to prove what exact benefits mental ray provides instead of vray. Such claims must be supported.

The only company I know that uses vray for vfx production is Scanline, but equally they might be using mental ray these days.

AFAIK the larger studios use the following: Pixar - prman (obviously), Dreamworks - proprietary hybrid, Blue Sky - proprietary raytracer, ILM - prman and mental ray, SPI - prman plus a proprietary raytracer, R&H - proprietary hybrid, DD - prman and mental ray, Weta - prman, Animal Logic - prman, Framestore - prman and mental ray, DNeg - prman, MPC - prman.

This is mainly based on what's available in the press and talking to people who work at each of those places so if anyone would like to correct me, please do.

mostafabibin
08-16-2008, 04:46 PM
as i have searched in wiki site data base the most popular one VRay has really a powerfull tool to be in people hand but not greate as mr and prman are.i myself i love mentalray and hate prman but prman really is a unique one that stand first in each production and mr is next in line.

MF3dream
08-16-2008, 06:13 PM
Hi every body...
I can't understand why people compare these renderers together:banghead::cry::curious:
mostafabibin, maybe it was better that you mentioned for what purpose and in what prudoction....!

Because as we all know almost any feature, large budget film these days is based on PRman or other PRman Compaliant renderers like 3dlight Mayaman...etc, because of

Originally posted by kmest
in big industries its not about which one is easier,its about how deep you can go into the engine and explore new things,how good you can manage your scenes and RIB librarys and how many new shaders and light shaders you can creat and manage the whole sequence,this is why big studioes mainy use Renderman based engines,like prman or Air,yes they do use other engines like mental ray but the main engine is always renderman.....

and also

Originally posted by Myself :D
You can tweak Renderman for ever until you get what you want and also PRman is very efficient when rendering blurry effects and things like displacment maps. It has some basic shaders and procedural maps like noise...etc but for implementing hourse power of it you'll need custom shaders...now thats time for math classroom:argh:.

the companys like ILM, Pixar, Weta, Animal Logic...etc all use the prman BECAUSE they CAN right things like Great multi layerd custom shaders and other proprietry tools that further customize the Power of PRman....

BUT (we have a big BUT here) for mid to small production that can't have Shader writers or great R&D centers for developing such a great tools and shaders there IS better to use other renderers like MR or Vray...

So between these two Vray is the easy one to reach to the maximum realism, but MR is another thing...becuse with this engine you can do many customizaitions and also writing shaders...that is great for animations compared to Vray and I think between these two, MR is like PRman...

And finally if you have the time for learning complex math and algorithmes plus all other technical/artistic features to reaching to Realism in renders, I highly recommened the PRMAN. if you are just an artist :arteest: (even a great ones) learn MR, I want to do so deeply after using Vray a lot...or learn both if you can....

just look at the poll results...The Vray and MR are far from the Prman becuse I can guess that many peoples are Artists not a shader writer or Both ones...and that results is NOT becuse of the lack of quality or etc in prman.

Bao2
08-17-2008, 12:22 AM
The answer for me is obvious: the best is the one giving the best quality in less rendertime.

I have heard here about renderman is better because speed. Are you talking of what time for a render?

kmest
08-17-2008, 02:05 AM
The answer for me is obvious: the best is the one giving the best quality in less rendertime.

I have heard here about renderman is better because speed. Are you talking of what time for a render?

well it depends...if you want to make a still image,in my experiece prman is not a good choice in case of speed....

BUT if you want to do animation,an i dont mean Hollywood high budget animations,and if you are skillfull in renderman based engines,then the rendertime and setups will be much much more faster than others,plus you can have features line DOF or Motion blur and still way faster than other engines,but still you need to be skill full to do the setups fast.....

Bao2
08-17-2008, 11:25 AM
well it depends...if you want to make a still image,in my experiece prman is not a good choice in case of speed....

BUT if you want to do animation,an i dont mean Hollywood high budget animations,and if you are skillfull in renderman based engines,then the rendertime and setups will be much much more faster than others,plus you can have features line DOF or Motion blur and still way faster than other engines,but still you need to be skill full to do the setups fast.....

Can a prman guy say the average time per frame in an animation that they did? Are they speaking of seconds, minutes, or half hour per frame in what they do in prman?

jude3d
08-17-2008, 03:03 PM
well first you can write custom shader in Vray, final render, mental ray or renderman , the fact is all 3 first renderer need to write shader in C++ and renderman in RSL. This is a major impact on the production for shader writer because you can achieve the same effect in shader in few lines with RSL when you need 5x more lines in C++. renderman is well studied for optimizing the shader writing process. this is the first pros point for renderman, the second is the ability to use module like dso or run program to build custom api without effort in prman. in that way you can do what ever you want in renderman. It's much more difficult to achieve that in other renderer.
that's why many studios use proprietary hybrid system like dreamworks and R&H and our where renderer are based on prmanwith a lot of custom api.

about the time , it depend about your scene, most of the time we use very heavy scene with lot of 2k to 8k map, advanced custom shader, 4k resolution, displacement and motion blur. As I know in a raytracer like Vray, MR or other rendering such scene need a computer with 64gb of ram where we can render it on our blade with only 16gb with renderman. For big studios it's really important to have the most efficient renderer in term of memory managment, because we are dealing with a very big amount of asset and data.

for effect like motion blur, displacement, dof, texture sampling quality, final image quality and output rendering pass, particles, blobby, CSG, subdivision surface, fur and hair renderman is far the best and the fastest. Renderman offer new baking technology like point cloud and brickmap (for prman) to use scene data in shading, bake things to reuse precomputed in rendering, do point based occlusion or Global illumination fast, including photon distribution and multibounce illumination in no time. so the toolbox is full of feature to optimize a lot a scene. you have to know the raytrace in renderman is more efficient when it comes to big scene than another raytracer, and that's another pros for renderman.

finally you spoke about new interactive renderer coming from MR, final render and Vray, this is a really cool technology but those interactive engine are optimized engine and they could only support implemented features or shader, when you come with a custom shader those interactive renderer doesn't work anymore and you have to implement your custom shader to the interactive engine. I tested Vray and final render interactive engine and they are really limited.
Renderman (prman) has also an interactive engine now in the pocket but this one is much smarter and support everything in real time even custom shader or dso. this is a really big deal for studios to get those type of real time engine in lighting department, because in renderman you can do your own real time engine API.

for all those reason renderman is the man for many studios and their big production. And far the most optimized solution to render film resolution image in 4k, even in stereoscopy.

Of course for a single user using renderman it's more a choice about your knownledge and technics in rendering, vray, MR and others are far easier to usebut less powerfull in custom things and efficiency. I advice you to get involved into math, shader theory and research to build your own custom shader and use renderman properly. With good shader, setup and lighting you can achieve better rendering in renderman than any other renderer, the only cons is the effort it needs to get photorealistic result in renderman, but this effort is well recognized in the industry in salary term ! ;-)

playmesumch00ns
08-17-2008, 04:20 PM
The answer for me is obvious: the best is the one giving the best quality in less rendertime.

I have heard here about renderman is better because speed. Are you talking of what time for a render?

How long is a piece of string?

Generally 1-4 hours a frame for a single element. If it goes any quicker than that then you turn more stuff on to make it prettier (and slower).

Bao2
08-17-2008, 06:53 PM
How long is a piece of string?

Show me the string and place it with a know object.

Generally 1-4 hours a frame for a single element. If it goes any quicker than that then you turn more stuff on to make it prettier (and slower).

For me that is slow. I was thinking prman adepts were talking about prman doing things in very few minutes.

playmesumch00ns
08-18-2008, 01:04 PM
Well for me that's about normal, hence the piece of string comment: how long a render takes depends on what you've got in the scene. Those times are based on 1-3 characters each with tens of millions of hairs, subsurface scattering and diffuse interreflection illuminated by maybe 20 lights and rendered at 2k with motion blur. I don't think that's too shabby.

kmest
08-18-2008, 05:50 PM
For me that is slow. I was thinking prman adepts were talking about prman doing things in very few minutes.

so why dont you check renderman for maya??built on prman technology,very easy to use,incredebly fast in motion blurs,Dof,hair,displacements and HDR lighting compare to MR.....,it has its own limits,but cool for rendering small projects in no time...maybe minutes....(i think it was out of topic)

MF3dream
08-18-2008, 08:44 PM
So about PRman for maya...Can anyone explain about Maya's native shaders....If PRman convert them to its RSL, do they have the prman own shaders efficiency (I mean quality, render time...etc)?

and for a guy with an average understanding of math, how long it'll take generally to be able to wirting Good shaders with RSL?

thanks ;)

CgKumar
08-19-2008, 12:01 PM
I use Renderman for Maya. And it works great with Maya's render nodes, but if you are after the renderman shaders, you can import them and render them from renderman for maya. It has the ability to use renderman shaders, of course you dont have the slim cabability but a ready compiled shader would work fine, in maya. As far as the support for maya's nodes, there are a few thats not supported, you should read the docs to make sure whats included and whats not.

mostafabibin
08-19-2008, 02:17 PM
can any one tell about use of MR in dreamworks and sony pictures.


and another important thing is mentalray is really unique in game developing.

mostafabibin
08-30-2008, 09:49 PM
can any one tell me about Mr and PRman intergration and use of them together in one production.

sqrt
09-04-2008, 02:33 PM
i use 3Delight Renderman

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