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View Full Version : Is the new GI in messiah3 good for interiors?


Wegg
07-09-2008, 04:02 PM
http://www.eggington.net/~wegg/4Messiah/GI_Challenge.png

Yes I think so. It is fast, clean, provides rich "deep" shaded areas, lots of interesting bounced light and is generally a lot easier to set up and quicker to render than anything we had before.

This scene consists of just one object. No lights. Just the sky shining through two windows.

Would you guys be interested in a video tutorial showing how to set up a simple scene like this?

Also. . . I'd love to see if others can match its quality/speed in other packages. The model I used can be found here. (http://www.eggington.net/~wegg/4Messiah/CubeRoom.zip)

Oh. . . machine specs are probably important here. I'm using a 1.9ghz 8 core Opteron machine. I KNOW there there are a lot faster machines out there. . . so just bear that in mind. If your on an 8 core 3.2ghz Intel then you should probably get the render time down to under 3 minutes.

Wegg
07-09-2008, 04:15 PM
I already have one friend that says he is going to "ream me" using Modo. Whoo hoo! Bring it on! :applause:

TylerAZambori
07-09-2008, 04:27 PM
http://www.eggington.net/~wegg/4Messiah/GI_Challenge.png

Yes I think so. It is fast, clean, provides rich "deep" shaded areas, lots of interesting bounced light and is generally a lot easier to set up and quicker to render than anything we had before.

This scene consists of just one object. No lights. Just the sky shining through two windows.

Would you guys be interested in a video tutorial showing how to set up a simple scene like this?

yes please, that would be very nice.


Also. . . I'd love to see if others can match its quality/speed in other packages. The model I used can be found here. (http://www.eggington.net/~wegg/4Messiah/CubeRoom.zip)

Oh. . . machine specs are probably important here. I'm using a 1.9ghz 8 core Opteron machine. I KNOW there there are a lot faster machines out there. . . so just bear that in mind. If your on an 8 core 3.2ghz Intel then you should probably get the render time down to under 3 minutes.

I only have a 2.4ghz quad core here, but maybe next year I can build an octa-core
system after those 8 core cpu's come out.

JensDa
07-09-2008, 05:08 PM
Here is my attempt in LightWave 9.5.
35s on Quad 3GHz.

Greetings

Jens

http://www.messedesign-dammann.de/bilder/Cube_Room1.jpg

Julez4001
07-09-2008, 05:25 PM
Challenge!!!

Wegg
07-09-2008, 05:30 PM
Yeee Hawww! We have a contender!

Let me fiddle with my scene to include your gradient sky and lower GI settings and. . .

http://www.eggington.net/%7Ewegg/4Messiah/GI_ChallengeB.png

Lightwave 9. . . $895.00

Messiah 3. . . $399.00

:deal:

NEXT!

(Please don't get offended by this btw. I'm just having fun. I'm fully aware that there are a lot of awesome renderers out there. Kray happens to be one of the ones I admire the most. But. . . I want to make sure people realize that Messiah's is up there with the best.)

rago
07-09-2008, 05:36 PM
Nice Wegg, but I have to say that to an industrial design/ architecture side it is a bit cartoony, but It's certainly the effect that you wanted to get since it was for a cartoon!

As far as for the other GI, there would be sense for a hybrid workflow, because direct light coming from photon map would help the secondary montecarlo bounce and make an interior scene better lit, that's why vray is so great, it has 4 render engines in one, actually 7:

primary bounce (deterministic montecarlo, photon map, irradiance map, lightcache)

secondary bounce (deterministic montecarlo, photon map, lightcache)

and all the combinations of above!

I'm yet to be a vray expert, it's just a month that I've been fidling with it, and as far as the competition I really don't think it's necessary since vray has become the standard in design and arch. visualization for some reason!)


Tyler:
all you have to do is go and see how many CG awards have been using vray, it's full!

http://www.ragodesign.com/ambiente_09.jpg

Wegg
07-09-2008, 05:41 PM
since vray has become the standard in design and arch. visualization for some reason!)

Oooooo you said the word. "Standard". Maya is the "Industry Standard" for character animation. You'd be a fool to use anything else. You have NOOooooo idea how much that drives me bonkers. There ARE no standards. At least there shouldn't be. :banghead:

V-Ray is. . . what? $760? For Rhino? Which is ANOTHER $780?

Crap I have to go. Have a go at rendering this in V-Ray rago. I'm VERY curious as to what the industry standard can do. ;)

TylerAZambori
07-09-2008, 06:02 PM
yeah, you didn't give a render time for that rago.

rago
07-09-2008, 06:09 PM
Don't get all defensive and stuff, just saying that if two programmers from Bulgaria managed to make their product a standard in somewhat field, that means that there has to be some good sides, especially since it's not pushed from any major software package.

If you deny this there must be something wrong!(

I'm a designer, and as far as modeling I need some precise tools, rhino with nurbs gives me the necessary at a right price, vray gives me what messiah won't for a bit more money, not that much though!
I've worked with messiah and I've always praised it, but If I myself can get better results with the same effort and less time than that's gaining money.

Just to get all the objects in to messiah and surfacing them was a pain, plus not considering the fact that it still won't render ngons and triangles right!
On the other hand my work envolves static or POV animations, so if I had to do character animation I'd use messiah, or maybe blender+vray!)

Messiah isn't a complete package yet, it needs a modeler, and on the render side it's options need to be fixed to be considered as options!
You use lightwave I believe, you'd probably get better results in interior scenes with Kray, but that doesn't mean that messiah sucks it has other priorities!

JensDa
07-09-2008, 06:22 PM
Last shot. 800 x 600, 26,3 sec. LW 9.5. :thumbsup:

Cheers

Jens

http://www.messedesign-dammann.de/bilder/Cube_Room2.jpg

rago
07-09-2008, 06:34 PM
This kind of competion is not that indicative to my opinion, try putting some materials, metals, anisotropy, fresnel effects, ecc.

It's not just a question of time you know!
My clients don't care if the renders are going to take an hour more or an hour less, they care of the general look and if the materials look reasonably true!)

I really don't have that much time but a simple photo as reference to who gets closer would be cool!)

But believe me for the next month I'm tied up, can't even go on vacation this august!(

Cheers!

TylerAZambori
07-09-2008, 06:42 PM
This kind of competion is not that indicative to my opinion, try putting some materials, metals, anisotropy, fresnel effects, ecc.

It's not just a question of time you know!
My clients don't care if the renders are going to take an hour more or an hour less, they care of the general look and if the materials look reasonably true!)

I really don't have that much time but a simple photo as reference to who gets closer would be cool!)

But believe me for the next month I'm tied up, can't even go on vacation this august!(

Cheers!

your clients don't care, so why post your opinion on here and then not prove it?

sheesh. well personally I can't afford v-ray. For blender I already got kerkythea
and nvidia gelato pro, and 3delight too. there's lots to choose from for blender.

rago
07-09-2008, 06:55 PM
originally posted by TylerAZambori
your clients don't care, so why post your opinion on here and then not prove it?

First of all my opinion wasn't on how fast messiah's render engine is, but on how good it is compared to others for interior scenes!

Second I've been a messiah owner for years now and I believe to have a right to express my opinion what so ever! It's a free world and since I have not been offensive towards no one you're remark seems a bit rude!

I don't understand what needs to be proved if I say that I feel Vray works better for my projects than messiah did, that's the reason I bought it in the first hand, if you say I'm so dunce that I can't get messiah to work to vray standards, than that proves me right even more since vray is easier for me!)

And I don't see so many top notch, (except for Taron's), renders around to prove me wrong either, look at the gallery!

JensDa
07-09-2008, 07:31 PM
@rago


Vray is a nice renderengine and it has a very special natural look.
So if you are doing archvis work i would stick to it.

IMO Kray for LW and FinalRender2 are the only other renderengines i have seen, which can compete on that level for archvis work.

Jens

TylerAZambori
07-09-2008, 07:49 PM
First of all my opinion wasn't on how fast messiah's render engine is, but on how good it is compared to others for interior scenes!

Second I've been a messiah owner for years now and I believe to have a right to express my opinion what so ever! It's a free world and since I have not been offensive towards no one you're remark seems a bit rude!

I don't understand what needs to be proved if I say that I feel Vray works better for my projects than messiah did, that's the reason I bought it in the first hand, if you say I'm so dunce that I can't get messiah to work to vray standards, than that proves me right even more since vray is easier for me!)

And I don't see so many top notch, (except for Taron's), renders around to prove me wrong either, look at the gallery!

First of all, I didnt say you were a dunce.

Next, I'm going to quote your own words:

I'm sorry if I'm harsh, but I was very disappointed with messiah's 3 rendering, I tought that there would have been more fixes, but the photon map and hybrid GI is still crashing most of the time in complex interior scenes and as your render shows it is still not that good of a solution for interiors, (or to grainy or huge render times); with noise reduction often seems to make everything float, as your render.

Probably you can get close enough, to other rendering engines, (even though I haven't seen an example yet), but it takes a long time for setting, and I myself dropped it for rhino + vray getting 10 times better results in less than a week, with faster render times.

you said it was 10 times better, _with_faster_render_times. I naturally want
to know if this is really true. Also, 10 times better sounds like a whole lot.

If I could afford vray, I'd want to be really sure about it, and not just go by the
injunction that it's the industry standard, you know?

But hey, I have plenty of renderers to play with in the meantime, many of which
are free, and the one in messiah which I already own.

kerkythea is open source, and has some very nice realistic arch viz interiors in their
gallery, so if I was really concerned about it, I still would not have to shell out $$
for vray. But kerkythea is not industry standard either. I don't have a problem
with wanting to learn kerkythea too.

But I will probably put getting a non-industry standard laptop next, to take to
my non-industry standard job.

I guess you're right about Taron being the only one to post renders of realistic
arch-viz renders done in messiah. Why don't you post some when your current
contract is done? Since you cared enough to give an opinion about messiah in
this area, I'm now curious about that.

Thanks!

Wegg
07-09-2008, 08:32 PM
rago: I think you, as many people do, loaded up Messiah and tried to get the renderer to work with the terms and knowledge you already knew. And like many people. . . got slapped in the face with crazy noise, crashes, "glitches" that you had to work around etc. etc.

That sucks. Wish it wasn't like that. If a feature is in a program and no one has ever gotten it to work right then it shouldn't be there. But I do know what it is capable of and am going to try and edjumikate everyone if I have time.

N-Gons do work. They just can't be subdivided. Triangles too.

With Sub-D objects. . . its real frustrating how much prep work you have to do to get your models to render right. I 100% agree. Especially when its supposed to be a "quick" job and you have purchased the models from a library.

I have always been impressed with V-Ray, One thing I know Messiah can't do is that blurry reflection. Messiah's just stink. But with everything else in your scene I know that I could match in Messiah fairly quickly and with comporable render times.

JensDa: I think we are sacrificing too much of the quality at these render times. The average frame in a Pixar movie takes HOURS to render. Not seconds. Pre-vis artists don't really care how long a render takes. So shaving seconds here and there mean nothing. I'm trying to get a interior with fancy GI bounces that have nice quality. But. . . I had a go anyway. . :blush:

http://www.eggington.net/%7Ewegg/4Messiah/GI_ChallengeC.png

Wegg
07-09-2008, 09:36 PM
Oh. . . Messiahs "area lights" are also BLAZING fast compared to anything else I have ever used. I threw one into the second window on this scene.

I also threw in some of the buzz word compliant features you were mentioning Rago. Metal, anisotropy, and fresnel effects.

Messiah tends to just take it all in stride. Vroom. :-)

http://www.eggington.net/%7Ewegg/4Messiah/GI_ChallengeD.png

Ulven
07-09-2008, 10:33 PM
When you want to achieve the K-Ray/V-Ray look in messiahs or LW native renderers you have to beef up the bounces to around 8. A kray render and lw native render with 8 bounces look near identical (on the GI front). It's part of what gives that nice washy/heavy colour bounce look. Up until recently that was close to impossible on interior scenes for production both in LW and in Messiah due to high render times. In messiah, the monte carlo with noise reduction method (a sampled smoothed monte carlo method) has rendered all other methods of GI in messiah close to obsolete, certainly so for interior scenes.

If you set the GI depth to 8, turn on noise reduction and use the settings to tweak speed and temporal accuracy you can relatively easily achieve the Vray/Kray "look". Most render times can be boiled quite well down while maintaining high accuracy and a great look with the settings.

Wegg
07-09-2008, 10:59 PM
8 bounces!?!

<me running off to try that>

http://www.eggington.net/%7Ewegg/4Messiah/GI_Challenge8Bounce.png

Adds a lot to render time. . . but it does look a touch nicer. I'll probably stick to 2 for speed.

Wegg
07-10-2008, 12:50 AM
http://www.eggington.net/%7Ewegg/4Messiah/GI_ChallengeE.png

I take back what I said abut blurry reflections not working. They appear to work fine. :buttrock:

Julez4001
07-10-2008, 12:54 AM
ohh Weggy... that last one was super clean.

I got a challenge, how about some subsurface scattering grapes like ALex Alvarez did for Gnomology tutorials sitting next to a pitcher of milk in a interior of a room....



I BET YOU CAN"T MAKE THAT LOOK GOOD!

-ducks into the corner

Wegg
07-10-2008, 01:15 AM
Can you post the pic of it here?

TylerAZambori
07-10-2008, 01:35 AM
http://www.eggington.net/%7Ewegg/4Messiah/GI_ChallengeE.png

I take back what I said abut blurry reflections not working. They appear to work fine. :buttrock:

I love the stool/table. Thanks for posting that info, wegg and ulven both.
Very interesting :).

Julez4001
07-10-2008, 02:02 AM
Linkage


http://gnomonology.com/tutorial/222

http://gnomonology.com/upload/tutorial_thumb/222/main.jpg



Weekly Walkthroughs provide a complete project, including geometry, file textures, shading networks, environment maps, gobos, and lighting rigs. The aim is to teach through deconstruction of a fully realized but simple scene. In addition, any of the elements may be used and applied directly to other projects.

Procedural Plums discusses how to build rich, useful procedural networks, making efficient use of your time in IPR, displacement mapping water and water material, and a simple sunlight lighting rig.

MarkInTx
07-10-2008, 02:23 AM
I just want to say, that I'm loving this!

Keep it up! This is a great thread!

Wegg
07-10-2008, 03:31 AM
Innnnnnnteresting. So would you pay $24 to learn how to make fruit in Messiah?

Better yet. . . what kind of image would people be willing to pay to learn how to create in Messiah. If I could get 10 or so people to agree on one subject matter I could get to work on it. Nice little video you can watch and include all the models and scene files etc.

Takers?

I could maybe do a flower. . .

http://www.teachenglishinasia.net/files/u2/pink_water_lily_flower.jpg

Strawberries would be fun. . .

http://www.boxtedberries.com/pickyourown/strawberry.jpg

Or a pumpkin face?

http://winterflake.com/images/jackolantern.jpg

Something Christmas like?

http://www.ragazzi.org/images/christmasOrnament.jpg

Suricate
07-10-2008, 07:59 AM
Better yet. . . what kind of image would people be willing to pay to learn how to create in Messiah.

A pony! I want to have a pony, he he! :)

... but seriously I am interested in all rendering/shading setups that are related to characters, such as e.g. skin (human, animals etc.) or clothing (leather, fabric, rusty metal etc.).

rago
07-10-2008, 08:17 AM
Very nice Wegg!
But to get fresnel effects you see on a wood panel seen from an angle, the way it looks in real life is kind of tricky in messiah, or at least for me!)

look at this:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=641049

What I have learned recently is that most of rendering engines are based on the solution of an equation, James T. Kajiya, with a probabilistic method named Montecarlo.
There are two ways:

exact (unbiased, direct or brutal)
such as path tracing (brute force or Montecarlo), Bi-directional path tracing, Metropolis light transport, etc.

aproximated (biased) such as Photon Mapping, Radiosity, etc

The first methods are going to give more quality, but long render times and grainy effect,
the latter are faster but lose some definition and with low settings can give you blotches.

I'm not sure, but my experience in Messiah makes me think that it's Montecarlo + GI reduction, is a combination of the two methods, but let me know if I'm wrong.
Which is the same way vray goes only with less options.

@ Tyler:
I said what I said because I haved experienced that to get the same quality in messiah that I have in vray it takes me longer to setup, + to get 300 dpi printable output I have to turn the GI reduction's settings very high, making render times very long, and in the end I don't get the same result anyway. In Vray I manage to save my irradiance map and light cache calculations, this way I can get many angles of the same interior without having to recalculate the light bounces, and this saves a whole lot of time, even in animation!
But than again I'm wrong messiah's render engine is the best and whoever uses anything else is just very narrow-minded!)

Wegg
07-10-2008, 08:43 AM
http://www.eggington.net/%7Ewegg/4Messiah/Wow.png

I can't believe this thing actually rendered. :eek:

If there was a kitchen sink shader I would have thrown it in too.

I need to write it all down while its fresh in my brain.

Green = Translucency
Gold = noisette -> bump with tint to surface color highlight
Red = Fresnell and Anisotropic
White = Grids and Wires into Bump.
The Blue, Yellow and Red one = gradient -> Luminosity and emission
Eyeball = DollEyes
Pink Fur Ball = Fur (duh)
Stand = Plain reflection + Blurry reflection
Grey on top of the stand = noisette -> bump/displace and noisette -> gradient's "u_offset"
And then the one that didn't quite turn out on the top right. . . is a particle clouds shader. <--Fixed it
OH! And I threw in a lense distortion too for good luck.

It ALL rendered. Wow.

I know its not really a work of art you'd want to hang on your wall but it really does show off Messiah's rendering/shading power.

Whats amazing is that it all works together. GI + Fur + reflections + particles + light being emitted from surfaces etc etc. I could never get fur to show up in reflections in Lightwave. I could never get fur to cast a raytraced shadow. . . I always had to use these horrific shadow map things. Fori and Taron rule. :bowdown:

I again assert that Messiah's renderer is up there with the very best and challenge anyone to prove me wrong. :cool:

suricate: Texturing a little character with materials could be cool. Is that what everyone else would want?

rago: A lot of work went into that image but. . . I'm 100% confident that it wouldn't be the renderer from stopping me from re-creating it in Messiah. Nothing I see there scares me. Just. . . the tediousness of it. :-)

Yes. Thats pretty much the way it works. Messiah's solution revolves around brute force approximation of cache points. . . then spending the time to get those particular points right with more brute force montecarlo. . . and then blending the results with the neighboring points before moving on to rendering the next "pass".

What I hope Fori can work on in the future is for us to be able to store those points so that on the next frame of animation, only the points that have change significantly have to be re-calculated. Might be a tall order but it would sure save a lot of rendering time. Kray does that now but you have to pretty much not move anything but the camera for it to work.

rago
07-10-2008, 09:09 AM
originally posted by Wegg:
Kray does that now but you have to pretty much not move anything but the camera for it to work.

It's the same for Vray, if you move an object it's going to change light bouncing, shadows, etc, so it has to be recalculated again.
It works for static animation, or call them POV camera movements.
But it does save a lot of time if you need to get different angles of the same room!)

A lot of work went into that image but. . . I'm 100% confident that it wouldn't be the renderer from stopping me from re-creating it in Messiah. Nothing I see there scares me. Just. . . the tediousness of it. :-)

I'm not as confident as you, but maybe because I see so many of these works done in Vray, Kray, Mentalray, Maxwell, Fryrender, and haven't seen anything close in Messiah!)

You have to admit Wegg that our fun discussion has led to one of the most interesting threads in months!)

MarkInTx
07-10-2008, 11:29 AM
OK... the eye-ball in the corner is waaay too creepy! :eek:

About what I would pay for... here's a question: If I knew how to do the strawberries, would I be able to easily do the pumpkin? (Or Vice Versa). What I mean is, if I need to learn each set-up, and they are radically different, then I'd need a tutorial that showed me all of the above (plus a few more).

OTOH, a basic rendering tutorial that walked through the steps and hit some highlights, using one of the scenes you metioned as a reference might do the trick.

I mean, there are books and courses avalable for Mental Ray. I have seen it for lightwave, too.

I may be mistaken, but I don't think there is anything for Messiah beyond the reference manual. That may be why no one really knows much about the rederer, and are surprised to find what it is capable of.

I knew about Joe's tuts for trigging and animating, and John's tuts (no longer available) for the same. I've never seen anything for rendering.

When I bought Messiah, I honestly thought it was just an animator.

@ Rago: Polite dissent is a good thing on the forums!

Julez4001
07-10-2008, 12:09 PM
Do Three: Strawberries, The pond/lilly pad, and a XBOX/PS3 level Character (with displacements)

And sell them. It looks like PMG is going to be a little late on those docs and Taron is AWOL again soooooo ...do yah thing.

Wegg
07-10-2008, 03:01 PM
I'm not as confident as you, but maybe because I see so many of these works done in Vray, Kray, Mentalray, Maxwell, Fryrender, and haven't seen anything close in Messiah!

Yet I did it all the time on Andy's. Sure its "cartoon" audience may give you pause but its all there.

You have to admit Wegg that our fun discussion has led to one of the most interesting threads in months!)

yup. Would be a lot more interesting if you'd play ball and do some V-Ray renders for us. :p

TylerAZambori
07-10-2008, 04:12 PM
Very nice Wegg!
@ Tyler:
I said what I said because I haved experienced that to get the same quality in messiah that I have in vray it takes me longer to setup, + to get 300 dpi printable output I have to turn the GI reduction's settings very high, making render times very long, and in the end I don't get the same result anyway. In Vray I manage to save my irradiance map and light cache calculations, this way I can get many angles of the same interior without having to recalculate the light bounces, and this saves a whole lot of time, even in animation!
But than again I'm wrong messiah's render engine is the best and whoever uses anything else is just very narrow-minded!)

rago: thanks for the explanation. I wish you wouldn't treat me like I'm a fanboy though. I already indicated I have quite a few other renderers, and I will add that I can also use mental ray in xsi fnd, if I want to, although soon it's going to be an outdated version.

TylerAZambori
07-10-2008, 04:15 PM
Do Three: Strawberries, The pond/lilly pad, and a XBOX/PS3 level Character (with displacements)

And sell them. It looks like PMG is going to be a little late on those docs and Taron is AWOL again soooooo ...do yah thing.

yes, that would be great. The pond/lily pad especially. I probably won't have much money
until september, but am planning to continue with buying training materials then.

chikega
07-10-2008, 08:03 PM
Interesting thread ... I could probably do the Gnomon grapes in messiah. :)

Some older test renders ... I'll have to see what Rev 3 has under the hood.

http://www.3ddmd.com/images/Messiah/SSSHandBig.jpg (http://www.3ddmd.com/gallery_personal.htm)

Tama
07-10-2008, 08:23 PM
How about a photorealistic eye ball tutorial?

chikega
07-10-2008, 08:30 PM
Here's lookin' at ya' ...
[/url]
http://www.3ddmd.com/images/G2/Eye_constrict2a.gif

Julian, I think the Grape SSS tutorial shows more SSS than the Procedural plums.
[url="http://gnomonology.com/tutorial/227"]http://gnomonology.com/upload/tutorial_thumb/227/main.jpg (http://www.3ddmd.com/images/G2/Eye_constrict2a.gif)

TylerAZambori
07-10-2008, 08:37 PM
chikega, that would be lovely if you feel like doing it. Or any kind of
still life flower/fruit thing, with inorganic objects in the background,
really, right?

rush123
07-11-2008, 12:23 AM
chikega,

Had any time to play with 'scatter' mode and the lighting updates in Messiah v3?

R

chikega
07-11-2008, 03:36 AM
No I sure haven't ... but do tell. :)

Julez4001
07-11-2008, 04:25 AM
Here's lookin' at ya' ...



Julian, I think the Grape SSS tutorial shows more SSS than the Procedural plums.
http://gnomonology.com/upload/tutorial_thumb/227/main.jpg (http://gnomonology.com/tutorial/227)

Just like old times...where you been man?
The one I posted is Englemans but the shot you here s Alvarez (I couldn't find it)



You know we should have challenges every month to spark the base.

Maybe with prizes of Messiah seat, or PointOven or AutorRigger..we need to find soem sponsors?


-----------------



Hey REPOST THE SS movie you did back in the day..
http://www.3ddmd.com/download/SSSBlueRed.mov


PS: I am going to have another girl.

rago
07-11-2008, 08:10 AM
I'd prefer seing a more complex interior environment, to really give a test to Messiah's render skills!
Still life and particular shader effects such as SSS have proven to be handled very well already, and I bet that with ver. 3 it's only better.

chikega
07-11-2008, 01:59 PM
Hey Julian,
Yeah, sorry about the absence. I've finally gotten settled.

I ran out of disk space with my ISP ... need to upgrade so I can post some stuff.

That would be a good idea to have a little competition to test what messiah is capable of.

To test a complex scene, we should dig out that one scene that Mike Blackburn (modo) posted a while back. It had tubes and spheres, lots of nooks and crannies.


Congrats on the baby girl on the way! By the way, I'm having a boy this month. Our first one. I got married last year:)

Julez4001
07-11-2008, 02:17 PM
Do you have any of your old SSS scenes or materials to pull apart?

rush123
07-11-2008, 02:51 PM
Congrats on the baby girl on the way! By the way, I'm having a boy this month. Our first one. I got married last year:)
Wow Gary, Congrats both to you and Julian.

R

TylerAZambori
07-11-2008, 03:11 PM
how about the sibenik cathedral? here's the link to the scene:

http://www.hdri.cgtechniques.com/~sibenik2/download/ (http://www.hdri.cgtechniques.com/~sibenik2/download/)

here's the thread where they talked about rendering it on the
kerkythea forum:

http://tinyurl.com/3kulpd


I was curious to know what the kerkythea people thought about kray,
and this is what I found. The image took 3 hours 2 minutes to render,
but that was a couple years ago, and kerkythea has gotten better since
then. The nice thing about kerkythea is that anyone can have access
to it.

Just a thought. There's probably lots of images floating around
out there. That Marko Dabrovic guy no longer has a web page up,
but the rest of the links seem to work.

Congrats guys on having babies :).

PS: turns out there is a whole forum dedicated to rendering this scene, as
part of somebody's competition:

http://hdri.cgtechniques.com/~sibenik2/ (http://hdri.cgtechniques.com/~sibenik2/)

There are just a few posts. It's also featured on the
kray site, in the video gallery section.

stooch
07-14-2008, 07:44 AM
i gotta admit. that looks damn good and clean (except the the table shaft under the top). maybe its time for me to find an xp install and update my damn dongle lol.

http://www.eggington.net/~wegg/4Messiah/GI_ChallengeE.png

I take back what I said abut blurry reflections not working. They appear to work fine. :buttrock:

Wegg
07-14-2008, 03:47 PM
i gotta admit. that looks damn good and clean (except the the table shaft under the top).

Yea thats a reflection of a blurry reflection. Don't know why it got funky there.

Ulven
07-16-2008, 12:04 AM
Just a tip: If you're producing animations with messiah's GI noise reduction technique, and can't quite afford the rendering time it takes to get perfect temporal smoothnes in the GI solution (certain scenes and settings can flicker) it might be a good idea to get a time filter a la the one found here (http://www.cemyuksel.com/software/TimeFilter/)
It can take a good amount of rendering time off when you want to do animation. Make sure you test your scene with moving items before going into full production of the scene.

Wegg
07-16-2008, 07:02 AM
http://www.eggington.net/%7Ewegg/4Messiah/Atrium.png

20 minutes on my old X2. From what I can see Messiah's image quality is up there with the best of them. . .

chikega
07-18-2008, 03:44 AM
Nice one ... very clean! :)

pmG should update the gallery with your version of this scene ... it makes the old ones look somewhat grainy and outdated. Kudos to Fuori.

angola
07-21-2008, 09:24 AM
where is the very clean new gi
how to setting

sadicus
07-23-2008, 03:20 PM
What are the settings for the renders in this thread?
I would like to use this cuberoom as a benchmark too!

Wegg
07-23-2008, 05:50 PM
Well. . . they don't really matter. The settings. Just what looks good for the time vs. CPU speed.

See if you can get a similar looking image faster.

I THINK. . . from what I remember I used 2 bounces, a GI setting of about 100 and lots of other tweaks that I'll have to make a video tutorial on one of these days.

angola
07-29-2008, 11:43 PM
hi~wegg
the picture of the scene you have rendered is a good a tutorial.
can you upload it in somewhere.then we can learn the new good gi setting.
thank you..

angola
07-30-2008, 03:53 AM
hi~wegg ~
i think you are the master of messiah ..
can you upload the scene picture GI_ ChallengeE.png to some where
then we can download it to practice the new gi of messiah render

Wegg
07-30-2008, 04:01 AM
I need to walk people through why the settings are the way they are so the principles can be applied to any scene. I'll try and get something made this week.

lanosrep1
07-30-2008, 04:37 AM
WoooHooo!!!

I need to walk people through why the settings are the way they are so the principles can be applied to any scene. I'll try and get something made this week.

Julez4001
08-01-2008, 03:47 PM
I forgot: How do you make soft shadows with panel or sphere lights?

Man, I need to make a new set of tutorials I am forgetting everything.

Wegg
08-01-2008, 04:25 PM
I made a video tutorial that walks you through just that Julez.

http://www.eggington.net/~blog/?p=93

Julez4001
08-02-2008, 05:32 PM
This was a quick test I sketch out just to start testing some of the settings you laid out in your video. Its been a long time since I used the Messiah's node editor and I am a bit rusty, the grid shader for the floor is actually deforming the floor I think which is incredible a sa default setting.

Anyway 1.39 sec with one spot light, GI and AA (set to 3) on a Q6600 Intel.


Wegg, your work is not in vain.
I will continue to rediscover messiah's render.

Curious ...does M:S had an occulsion shader yet?



http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/274/image00sm1.jpg

Wegg
08-02-2008, 07:14 PM
Nope. Not built in. I thought Thomas had written one but I couldn't find it on his website (http://www.screendream.de/home_e.htm).

GI kind of trumps occlusion. Not to say occlusion isn't useful but it becomes a tiny bit redundant when you start getting to know how to use GI.

rush123
08-03-2008, 12:09 PM
Jules,
Curious ...does M:S had an occulsion shader yet?

http://uploader.polorix.net//files/1319/TLHPro_Occlusion_thumb.jpg
(http://uploader.polorix.net//files/1319/TLHPro_Occlusion.JPG)
Thomas' THLPro utility pack has 'TLHPro_Occlusion' shader.

R

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