Softimage Announces XSI 7 with ICE

[stblair]

Thanks ThE_JacO... I read about the panic button on the website :) Does all of this mean a dongle isn't required?

By default, new licenses will be dongleless.
Existing licenses that are already on a dongle will stay on a dongle.

The dongleless system (known as SLP) is basically what was being used for Foundation and XSI Student/Teacher.

SLP is streamlined in the sense that if you are connected to the Internet, you can just start up the License Manager and activate your license (or deactivate it). Everything happens beneath the covers (by everything, I mean the LicMgr takes care of generating the request code, sending it to softimage.com, getting the license key file back, and installing the license key).

The ability to deactivate allows you to move your license to another computer.

You should also deactivate your license before doing anything like reinstalling your OS.
Then, after you finish upgrading your system, you can re-activate the license.

[SheepFactory]

Say this posted @ XSI Base:


http://www.vimeo.com/1313863



It is a tutorial of building a force from a curve with ICE. By Bradley Gabe.

[DougNicola]

Thanks for pointing that out Sheep. That's a terrific demo video for ICE. Thanks Brad!

Here's a quote from Brad, from the XSI list, about this video:

"Keep in mind that what I am building already exists in ICE as a simple, single-node compound, so you don't have to do this much work every time you want the same effect."

All things considered, though, IMO it's not even that much work to build this cool effect.

~Doug

[TylerAZambori]

really impressive stuff! i love the concept of ICE and also i like the fact it will become a fantastic tool to build up an enormous resource of compounds that also newbies could just download and play with/retouch after awhile :D

also it seems like the perfect step towards a more and more artistic/visual approach that is exactly what 3D apps mostly miss , except for ZBrush and a few ones.

the comparison with other softwares like Houdini is unfair for now since this is only the starting point within XSI.

so congrats for this new tool!

ahem, please don't get upset at me for mentioning blender, but I think this is a similar
scenario, except that one really needs to know how to program for blender.

ok, for blender, it seems to me that there is lots of code that gets attempted and
never finished, and anything that is really good, gets absorbed into the program.
for example, that poor guy who injured his wrists by coding that cloth plugin for blender
for three years, and now that it's absorbed into blender, he can't ask for donations any more.

Since xsi is not open source, why assume that people would all share their code, ahem,
the results of their work?

[ThE_JacO]

Since xsi is not open source, why assume that people would all share their code, ahem,
the results of their work?
Because it's nowhere as hard as writing in C++ for three years straight, and because it happened before all the time?
During beta only there's been a tremendous amount of sharing (first and foremost from Soft employees), and none of that is under some oddball license.
One betatester feeling like wiring nodes for a couple of days could already post you more compounds than you could shake a stick at. On top of that when it will reach tens of thousands of customers you can bet plenty people will want to show off, and plenty more will be up for correcting/optimizing posted graphs if they can be bettered.

[Dharroun]

I thought at first that this would open the doors to anyone...but it still requires diving into attributes and other nodes that will also demand an intense understanding of how each attribute affects the other and their individual functions the first place....I just dont want newbies thinking this feature really makes it more creative potentially than say oh...maya?
It does seem like a great thing and Im sure it will prove to be in the future as "ICE" is put to use making every encounter a chance to innovate beyond the next XSI users work...But will it really enable the average non-technical creative mind to do these things or is it better we just leave that part of 3D art up to those who are just better suited for it?
Is there really a bridge between these two very different trains of thought...
Really its a right/left brain thing.
Am I limiting myself?

[Venkman]

I thought at first that this would open the doors to anyone...but it still requires diving into attributes and other nodes that will also demand an intense understanding of how each attribute affects the other and their individual functions the first place....I just dont want newbies thinking this feature really makes it more creative potentially than say oh...maya?
It does seem like a great thing and Im sure it will prove to be in the future as "ICE" is put to use making every encounter a chance to innovate beyond the next XSI users work...But will it really enable the average non-technical creative mind to do these things or is it better we just leave that part of 3D art up to those who are just better suited for it?
Is there really a bridge between these two very different trains of thought...
Really its a right/left brain thing.
Am I limiting myself?

I thought the exact same thing after looking at the video posted by Sheep Factory:

http://www.vimeo.com/1313863
Tutorial of building a force from a curve with ICE. By Bradley Gabe.

I was still VERY impressed by what I saw, and it eliminated the need to know mass amounts of code to do it, but the instructor still had to know what node to grab, what to use to multiply the info from a particular node's output to get a "scaler", etc. I don't know how he knew to do some of the steps in there. Clearly he knew what he was doing.

I came to the conclusion that it is extremely powerful, but it would still take a fair amount of technical knowledge to do the types of things I saw in that video.

ICE won't turn me into a particle FX TD overnight, but I think the transition could be much, MUCH easier than trying to learn how to program a similar tool from scratch in Python or MEL.

Just, MHO, from a non-coder non-XSI user.

[Ohmanoggin]

Q: "Since xsi is not open source, why assume that people would all share their code, ahem,
the results of their work?"

This comment puzzles me: People are creating an entire product (Blender) for nothing, why can't artists and developers who use XSI share work they do to?

Maya, Max and Lightwave and XSI (and all other 3D apps) have lots of great scripts made available for free right now. ICE just makes them easier to create and distribute and opens up new levels of potential. However, the idea of sharing has been part the 3D industry since the use of embedded scripting languages.

Ohmanoggin

[GeneralLethal]

I thought the exact same thing after looking at the video posted by Sheep Factory:



I was still VERY impressed by what I saw, and it eliminated the need to know mass amounts of code to do it, but the instructor still had to know what node to grab, what to use to multiply the info from a particular node's output to get a "scaler", etc. I don't know how he knew to do some of the steps in there. Clearly he knew what he was doing.



That is true, however I am under the impression that ICE will be much more open to trial and error than regular scripting would be. You might not know exactly which node to bring up in any situation but by trying a few things, reading the doc and looking at ICE trees created by other people, I think you'll be able to get to your goal a lot more easily if you have limited scripting skills.

[yog]

I thought at first that this would open the doors to anyone...but it still requires diving into attributes and other nodes that will also demand an intense understanding of how each attribute affects the other and their individual functions the first place....I just dont want newbies thinking this feature really makes it more creative potentially than say oh...maya?

Whilst it certainly wont enable someone new to the concept of 3D to jump straight in and begin writing their own compounds, it will make it a lot easier for the average user (who may not have any scripting background), to begin putting together their own tools.
It's likely to be the same way as how I learnt to write scripts for Autocad. I had no scripting experience, but I was able to see and dissect how other people had put their scripts together, and whilst at first I got by by cutting and pasting bits and pieces of other peoples scripts, I began to understand the fundamentals and slowly began writing my own from scratch. I see the same thing happening here.

On a different topic.
As coincidence would have it, I received notice today that my MAX subscription is coming up for renewal. For at least the last three main releases I have been very disappointed with the development "progress" of MAX (or lack of), but have kept it on as a large percentage of my work was Arch-Viz based. Things have changed in the last six months, and it looks as though I wont be doing anywhere near the amount of Arch-Viz I had been doing. So despite Autodesk's draconian upgrade policies, I've decided to let my MAX subscription lapse and do what I have been threatening to do for a while, and make XSI my primary application.
Definitely not a good time to receive the MAX renewal notice, and definitely not a good time to see that it has massively increased in price :rolleyes:

[ThE_JacO]

Of course just having ICE ther won't get you POTC3's maelstrom simulated with no knowledge whatsoever of maths.

The artist friendly part of it is how open ICE is to experimentation and how instantly gratifying it is from a visual standpoint.
Scripting even the simplest expression will require a threshold knowledge of syntax and functional tools before you can do anything with it.
Writing anything for something as simple as a cross product will require, before hand, that you understand what you're doing.
Anything more than that, like knowing what a perlin noise does when applied to something, goes into realms that artists seldom experiment with.

Such a simple nodal system, with polymorphic ports and scaling granularity, not to mention a visual form of debugging, removes that initial threshold and favors experimentation and helps learning.
Speed and visual feedback are the qualities that make it so.

I only started really understanding linear algebra and calculus when I got a 3D application and started writing for it, because before the pure abstracts were, simply put, too much of a vertical step in the learning curve for me to muster the will to get over it.
Once I had something to play with to manipulate those concepts I realized how truly amazing and actually simple the subjects were (not to mention incredibly visual).

This is exactly the same thing, except that it shaves off even more than that.
That is why I (and many others who've "seen the matrix" when it took a lot more effort) are sincerely convinced that it WILL bring artists closer to the the technical tasks, because it makes execution as simple as the concept is, and helps demystifying something that people should really care about, but just didn't have hundreds of hours of time (learning non graphical interfaces, syntaxes and all) to pour into getting over the first and hardest step.

I don't guess it's that way, I know it's that way, I've seen it happen already, and that was with a pretty small pool of people and hardly any tutorials, videos or compounds to learn from. When it will reach a wide userbase the domino effect will be heard from miles away :)

[Venkman]

I was very, very impressed that the simulation kept working as the instructor disconnected and connected some nodes, and it shaded the "not working" nodes in red. As he plugged them back in, or added items in the middle of the pipeline, they turned green again.

That was a stroke of pure, unfiltered genius.

[Ohmanoggin]

"...I came to the conclusion that it is extremely powerful, but it would still take a fair amount of technical knowledge to do the types of things I saw in that video."

Have you ever had a friend watch you jump around ppg's in a 3D app, and they look on in amazement saying they they would never be able to do that? New things always look intimidating.

Whether or not you realize it, all 3D artists are programmers. We just happen to prefer a different kind of interface (graphical) because it suits us better. All that we do could be done with a command line...and was not that long ago.

Ohmanoggin

[harovas]

Brad's video is really great, but I just want to point out that Brad is one
of those guys who CAN get technical, which sometimes accounts for why
people who are not used to getting so technical shy away from some of this stuff.

There are plenty of things you can do in ICE that don't require any more brain
cells than it currently takes to figure out the shading side of CG.
In any 3D application, but specifically XSI and Maya and Max because they use mental ray,
there are nodes that take some fiddling around with to understand what they do.

Things like Global Illumination, final gathering, caustics, BRDF, etc. take some
initial getting used to no matter who you are, if it's the first time you have
encountered that stuff. ICE will be no different, as long as the artists are
open to understanding it beyond just the surface effects.

For the people who don't want to, I am sure there will be many compounds
that can do cool things just by wiring them up. Is this good? Sure, it makes
life easier! Should everyone stick with the 'easy' stuff all the time? No, of course not!

This is exactly the reason that there are a whole lot of users out there who don't
understand the WHY behind the choices they make, they only want to
know about the HOW.

If all you know is what button to push to make something "look cool", then you really
don't know the tool well enough to advance yourself. When you start understanding
the reasons why things work the way they do, then you start to get creative,
and can more easily pull these things out of your head, because you already know
how the application works under the hood.

ICE can get as easy or as complicated as you need it to. A major difference is that
to "play around" with coding something in either C++ or a scripting language,
you have a lot of work to do to even get to that point. If you type the wrong
thing, then the code does nothing. It throws an error.

If you do the wrong thing in ICE, it tells you why, or it won't let you do it if it
is not applicable. That encourages the act of playing, since we don't have a whole
lot of learning to get through before the actual playing starts. You are rewarded
for all this playing, by starting to understand what works and what doesn't.
This means, of course, that your 'playing' is actually 'learning', and you are
getting a deeper understanding of the software all the time.

I think this is a major reason to have a nodal environment. You see cause and effect
right in front of your eyes.

So, in conclusion, it's very powerful for artists, even those who don't want to
delve any deeper into the application than what they see on the surface, since
they will be learning while playing. It's like being a kid again, only with mortgage payments...


Of course, having written all that, I look 3 posts up and see that Raffaele said nearly
the same thing (only much more eloquently). Oh well! Nice posting Raff!

[Venkman]

You guys should be sales reps! ;)

Well, from what I'm reading in this thread, it sounds like ICE encourages users experiment in ways that straight coding does not. It looks like a code "playground", and I would interpret other tools that people make as pre-made pieces of equipment for the playground that I can take apart, modify, and tweak as a starting point if I so choose.

I'll definitely try out the demo when it comes out. Hopefully people will post their tools and bits to fool around with for the demo.

[SheepFactory]

Of course it will still require you to know what you are doing. But just the vid on the softimage site "intro to ICE particles" is proof enough that now I will be able to create things that I couldn't before because I do not know the expressions\code whatever to get what I want.


Think of what a huge step this is for artists who work visually. You are looking at a visual graph instead of lines of code that look alien. A graph is so much simpler to understand and dissect. Don't know what a "get surface point" node does? Open the help look it up. The same thing in a code environment is near impossible to dissect and put into perspective for someone who doesn't know coding.

It is also much simpler for someone knowledgeable with the TD aspect of it, say, like Jaco to help me with it than before. He can now simply look at my graph and say "you need to add this node here to get this effect, etc" as opposed to "yea you need to learn to code" (just using you for examples sake Raff, I promise I wont bug you with questions....much :p )

[Mike RB]

Think of what a huge step this is for artists who work visually. You are looking at a visual graph instead of lines of code that look alien. A graph is so much simpler to understand and dissect. Don't know what a "get surface point" node does? Open the help look it up. The same thing in a code environment is near impossible to dissect and put into perspective for someone who doesn't know coding.

To be fair to the people over at Side Effects, you are talking about this being a huge step for XSI artists only. This workflow exists in Houdini from A to Z in every part of the app (modelling, animation, dynamics, particles, fluids, character animation, render outputs, compositing).

Which brings up an interesting point, is the FXtree in XSI all ice'd up as well? Can you input data from a corner-pin animation or a key of footage into your ICE tree and then transform it using particles and dump it back into the comp to effect comp layers?

EDIT: Just to be clear, from my somewhat limited exposure to Houdini I wouldn't want to model or animate characters in it at all. The procedural workflow might lend itself for model variations of a crowd that get automatically changed, or buildings that change for a city.... but hero stuff no thanks.

[Nemoid]

the visual aspect of node representation and the fact that you see results in realtime , is just alot funnier than wriiting code and then try it. :)

jeez i hate writing even simple html code, it really is not in my mindset to write all day into notepad boring lines of code and see my crap results afterwards.

i don't mean to offend programmers or TDs in anyway btw that's just MY feeling about it - they do a heck of an hard work for sure !

i can draw by hand all i want into a very good way and its no brainer for me.
programmers can write code the way it's needed to. everyone has his skills.

BTW for ICE knowing whats the purpose of a certain node will be required, but even here i think one could learn while playing and through a good documentation and also downloading compounds and opening them and observing their structure ? could learn more easily!

[tc]

ok there was a question about ICE performance in another Thread, so I've recorded this video:

http://www.xsi-brasil.com/XSI_7/mesh_on_mesh_performance/mesh_on_mesh_performance.html

This is the same bi-directional mesh deformation showed before. This compound should come with XSI 7.
As you will see in the video, at some point I will get millions of points + millions of triangles, XSI will keep it stable and manageable even on a big graph that is performing raycasting over a HEAVY polymesh. Still doing interactive updates, and pure viewport navigation is incredibly fast (look up to the FPS in the view vs polycount).

XSI architecture has evolved more than ever before, and I hope you all can fell that when the trial version get's available.

Brad's video on build a curve force is enlightening. :)
And for the non-technical people: don't forget you will not need to do that force, he's just showing how he did it.
In a very short amount of time, the community is going to have a huge library of effects available.

[Venkman]

ok there was a question about ICE performance in another Thread, so I've recorded this video:

http://www.xsi-brasil.com/XSI_7/mesh_on_mesh_performance/mesh_on_mesh_performance.html

This is the same bi-directional mesh deformation showed before. This compound should come with XSI 7.
As you will see in the video, at some point I will get millions of points + millions of triangles, XSI will keep it stable and manageable even on a big graph that is performing raycasting over a HEAVY polymesh. Still doing interactive updates, and pure viewport navigation is incredibly fast (look up to the FPS in the view vs polycount).

I actually just saw that in the "other thread." ;)

I think I peed my pants a little!*


*disclaimer: I did not actually pee my pants.

[liltbrockie]

ok there was a question about ICE performance in another Thread, so I've recorded this video:

http://www.xsi-brasil.com/XSI_7/mesh_on_mesh_performance/mesh_on_mesh_performance.html

This is the same bi-directional mesh deformation showed before. This compound should come with XSI 7.
As you will see in the video, at some point I will get millions of points + millions of triangles, XSI will keep it stable and manageable even on a big graph that is performing raycasting over a HEAVY polymesh. Still doing interactive updates, and pure viewport navigation is incredibly fast (look up to the FPS in the view vs polycount).

XSI architecture has evolved more than ever before, and I hope you all can fell that when the trial version get's available.

Brad's video on build a curve force is enlightening. :)
And for the non-technical people: don't forget you will not need to do that force, he's just showing how he did it.
In a very short amount of time, the community is going to have a huge library of effects available.

What spec PC is that running on please?

[tc]

Originally Posted by tc
ok there was a question about ICE performance in another Thread, so I've recorded this video:

http://www.xsi-brasil.com/XSI_7/mes...erformance.html (http://www.xsi-brasil.com/XSI_7/mesh_on_mesh_performance/mesh_on_mesh_performance.html)


What spec PC is that running on please?



- 2gbs of ram
- 8 Cores 2.8ghz
- windows VISTA 64bit
- Geforce GT 8800.

Apple workstation that cost less than 3k. Awesome performance.

[Shenan]

To be fair to the people over at Side Effects, you are talking about this being a huge step for XSI artists only. This workflow exists in Houdini from A to Z in every part of the app (modelling, animation, dynamics, particles, fluids, character animation, render outputs, compositing).


The frequent comparisons to Houdini lead me to think that XSI 7 and ICE could increase Houdini sales and visibility because many people that might possibly not have looked at Houdini before will suddenly see the strengths of a nodal architecture and decide they want to get even deeper into it by using Houdini.

[liltbrockie]

- 2gbs of ram
- 8 Cores 2.8ghz
- windows VISTA 64bit
- Geforce GT 8800.

Apple workstation that cost less than 3k. Awesome performance.

its impressive!!... do some more videos!!

[Mike RB]

The frequent comparisons to Houdini lead me to think that XSI 7 and ICE could increase Houdini sales and visibility because many people that might possibly not have looked at Houdini before will suddenly see the strengths of a nodal architecture and decide they want to get even deeper into it by using Houdini.

I've heard other people say the same, in addition to the houdini guys saying that it will be fun to just convert anything made for ICE into houdini nodes and plug it in. So everyone developing for ICE will be developing for Houdini as well. (I have no knowledge about the feasibility of this, only from what I've read).

[Necronomiden]

wow, that looks amazingly crazy.. its definitely making me wanna switch to xsi

congrats to the xsi team!

[Ohmanoggin]

The frequent comparisons to Houdini lead me to think that XSI 7 and ICE could increase Houdini sales and visibility because many people that might possibly not have looked at Houdini before will suddenly see the strengths of a nodal architecture and decide they want to get even deeper into it by using Houdini.

Hey, cool. Houdini is a great product. Although, I have this hunch that right now all the Houdini forums around the world are talking about XSI 7 all of a sudden. Sure, they are ragging it, but XSI does do Character Animation quite well. Certainly their may be some Houdini defectors as too :). I think that is great. Both Soft and SideEffects are great companies. I would like to see both get more sales.

If you think about it when there is an "Industry Standard" we artists are worth less and the company that owns the "standard" doesn't have to work as hard. Great to see some shaking up in the 3D world.


Ohmanoggin

[Shenan]

I agree that it's great to see excellent competition going up against the monopoly.

And I was also thinking that there might be increased cross-polination between the XSI and Houdini communities, but I think that XSI 7 could start a role as a "gateway drug" to nodeland, so to speak. :)

PS: I'm considering upgrading my old XSI Foundation 4.2 with the promotion, but I don't know if I can justify the price vs. an educational version. I'm just a hobbyist (without much time for hobbies) after all. But that's an attractive deal if I ever wanted to be more than a hobbyist in the future.

[jgoldfin]

Hi -

A week from today, check out our on-line SOFTIMAGE|XSI event being hosted exclusively by CGSociety.

http://www.softimage.com/events/xsi_7/blasts/xsi7_onlinelaunch.html

We'll be showing more of ICE at this time, and in fact we have incorporated some of your questions and comments from the last few days into the demos.

(we are actually shooting it right now!)

jen

[benytone]

..video:

http://www.xsi-brasil.com/XSI_7/mesh_on_mesh_performance/mesh_on_mesh_performance.html
...

Unbelievably Fantastic... :bowdown: I want XSI 7....:cry:

.

[SheepFactory]

- 2gbs of ram
- 8 Cores 2.8ghz
- windows VISTA 64bit
- Geforce GT 8800.

Apple workstation that cost less than 3k. Awesome performance.


That is exactly the config I am looking at too. I was wondering if the extra 800$ upgrade to 3.0 processors would be necessary but judging from your vids I see no reason.

[Lone Deranger]

If I was you Sheep, I'd spend that $$ on a few OWC (http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Mac-Pro-Memory) sticks of Ram. You can get 16GB for it for less than $700. :D

That is exactly the config I am looking at too. I was wondering if the extra 800$ upgrade to 3.0 processors would be necessary but judging from your vids I see no reason.

[st3dcenter]

I saw that video and i think it is wonderfull.Please show us more rendered videos.XSI performance is excellent ,but I think the problem is mental ray.I am not sure mental ray can handle that amount of data.And at the end look of the picture is the most important.

[Saturn]

I saw that video and i think it is wonderfull.Please show us more rendered videos.XSI performance is excellent ,but I think the problem is mental ray.I am not sure mental ray can handle that amount of data.And at the end look of the picture is the most important.


Don't worry the implementation of Mr in xsi can handle it

[ambient-whisper]

anyone know if ice will be in essentials?( and how much of it?) versus the advanced version?

i ask because previously all the advanced dynamics have always been in advanced only.

[Ohmanoggin]

anyone know if ice will be in essentials?( and how much of it?) versus the advanced version?

i ask because previously all the advanced dynamics have always been in advanced only.

They are currently identical except for the "Behavior" crowd simulaltor and more nodes of Mental Ray. The XSI product itself is identical between Essentials and Advanced. ICE will definitely be part of Essentials 7.

Ohmanoggin

[Kabab]

I think it should be very easy to use..

For instance, we use a game engine here at work which is very similar to ICE all node based hundreds of nodes etc etc

Now i can't code to save myself but using this system in a few months i am skilled enough to make fairly complex games and i am by no means a programmer.

These system are actually very artist friendly!

[ambient-whisper]

They are currently identical except for the "Behavior" crowd simulaltor and more nodes of Mental Ray. The XSI product itself is identical between Essentials and Advanced. ICE will definitely be part of Essentials 7.

Ohmanoggin

so you mean to tell me that the cloth, and all the advanced dynamics are now in essentials?
i remember that those were in advanced only, a few versions ago ( well when i last checked )
but if that is true, then man, essentials is quite a deal. cloth, hair, dynamics/ice, etc. not bad.

[SheepFactory]

so you mean to tell me that the cloth, and all the advanced dynamics are now in essentials?
i remember that those were in advanced only, a few versions ago ( well when i last checked )
but if that is true, then man, essentials is quite a deal. cloth, hair, dynamics/ice, etc. not bad.


Yea it has been like that since 6.5.

[R10k]

Coming from Fnd 4.2, I'll be getting my monies worth from the cloth and hair alone. Even if ICE wasn't a part of 7, it'd still be a bargain to upgrade.

Whether or not to include maintenance though... that's another story.

[jgoldfin]

Hi -

A few shots from today's green screen shoot are available here:
http://softontheroad.blogspot.com/ (http://softontheroad.blogspot.com/)

Tune in next week for the on-line launch broadcast exclusively on cgsociety.org!

jen

[sacslacker]

Essentials getting the new feature set made it one of the best deals out there in my opinion. It was a huge upgrade for me being on Essentials maintenance! Now add ICE and what can only be coming in future versions... Thank you Softimage, seriously!

[Als]

Will there be any sidegrade offers/discounts?



Als

[endernaught]

Coming from the programming side of things, I can't help notice a parallelism in paradigms between the environment of programming languages (in general) and the way our 3D softwares allow us manipulation of our scenes.

I've recently become more and more interested in image based, highly dynamic languages that allow one to perform one's work in a living system (think lisp, factor, smalltalk, etc). I find these systems to be much more useful and engaging, and really much more powerful when one goes meta within the implementation of their ideas.

The point here is that I see systems like ICE and the procedural approach of Houdini to provide the analog of these higher level, specialized, and highly dynamic languages in our graphical world of scene manipulation. The point and click manipulation of polygons could be considered the BASIC of programming our scenes, while these nodal paradigms allow us to dig deep into the system, and also get very, very meta with our ideas.

With the visual nature of our 3D environments, it is absurd how much visibility into the system it affords us. And it really is more accessible to the less technically inclined, due to its being structured as a nodal graph. It snaps together like Legos. All those nodes, they're like different sized, shaped, and colored pieces. And when you snap them together, you can literally see how they affect the overall form of whatever it is you're creating. After awhile you learn what pieces work for different effect. Then things get really interesting when you realize you can snap together pieces that as a whole snap together pieces for you.

Hopefully others who have programming experience can see this analog. I am very happy to see more 3D softs moving in this direction, and kudos to Houdini and Soft for their implementations. Like their analog programming languages, they'll only get better from learning from one another. I'll stop my rambling now.

[Mic_Ma]

Hopefully others who have programming experience can see this analog. I am very happy to see more 3D softs moving in this direction, and kudos to Houdini and Soft for their implementations. Like their analog programming languages, they'll only get better from learning from one another.

I agree with you endernaught. I think it is not just programming but engineering in general. You wrap things neatly into containers and only worry what goes in and what goes out, so you can assemble units into interesting systems. It's a very powerful way of creating things, much more so than the adhoc strategies we (artists) have used for so long. Great to see that soft and sidefx give us a bit of engineering power.

[Leonard]

Hi guys,

We've started an ICE forum on the Softimage community site with more videos on ICE:
http://community.softimage.com/forumdisplay.php?f=86

Best,

Leo

[etobler]

Thanks for the videos! Really shows off the power of ICE.

[SFDD]

SLP is streamlined in the sense that if you are connected to the Internet, you can just start up the License Manager and activate your license (or deactivate it). Everything happens beneath the covers (by everything, I mean the LicMgr takes care of generating the request code, sending it to softimage.com, getting the license key file back, and installing the license key).

The ability to deactivate allows you to move your license to another computer.

Is activate/deactivate something we can do all the time? Meaning, I have a laptop and a desktop on which XSI runs. When I'm on the road, I want to activate via the laptop, but when I'm back, I might want to use the desktop machine. If I launch on one, will it automatically deactivate the other? Or will it refuse to run and tell me I have to deactivate it manually? (I ask because I'm assuming I'll often forget to deactivate the desktop before heading out with the laptop.)

[stblair]

Is activate/deactivate something we can do all the time? Meaning, I have a laptop and a desktop on which XSI runs. When I'm on the road, I want to activate via the laptop, but when I'm back, I might want to use the desktop machine. If I launch on one, will it automatically deactivate the other? Or will it refuse to run and tell me I have to deactivate it manually? (I ask because I'm assuming I'll often forget to deactivate the desktop before heading out with the laptop.)

Yes, you can switch between your desktop and your laptop by first deactivating the license on the desktop and then activating the license on the laptop.

To deactivate a license, you have to be on the computer where the license was activated.

You'll have to remember to deactivate (the same way you would have to remember to take the dongle with you if you were using dongle licensing).

[daviddrbal]

wow this new version of xsi looks amazing. nodes are a good way to go. i dont know if taking foundation away was a good idea either.

I think there is nothing new in XSI 7 what would go for Foundation update.

[Jaspar]

Looks like an amazing update.

Is anyone else out there considering what I'm considering?...

Quickly buy Foundation while it is still available, then get the promotional upgrade?

By my calcs, that should total just under £1000. £350ish for Foundation, £600ish for the upgrade

Jaspar

Edit: Just found another thread relating to this, seems that the resellers are apparently no longer selling Foundation (despite it still being advertised on their website)

[manuel]

Is anyone else out there considering what I'm considering?...

Quickly buy Foundation while it is still available, then get the promotional upgrade?
They stopped selling Foundation the very day XSI 7 was announced.

I hope that Soft will come up with a replacement for Foundation, eg. make a version where you can only execute ICE code but not edit it.

[Spin99]

Icy cool. Sounds like lego effects programming :p
I also like the idea of compounds. Less wires to plug yay.
Coming from SoftImage it's got to rock. Period.

[tc]

http://www.xsi-brasil.com/XSI_7/rigidbody_particles/rigidbody_particles.html
http://www.xsi-brasil.com/XSI_7/rigidbody_particles/rigid_body_particles.png (http://www.xsi-brasil.com/XSI_7/rigidbody_particles/rigidbody_particles.html)


I'm excited for the launch event tomorrow! :drool:

[Levi3d]

I'm excited for the launch event tomorrow! :drool:

You mean the launch in 20 mins, to which I cannot find a link?

[SheepFactory]

You mean the launch in 20 mins, to which I cannot find a link?


I thought it was at 12?

I am guessing the CGS page will update with a link and a frontpage plug whenever it goes up.

Edit: Just now saw the EDT. So it is in 10 minutes.

[Levi3d]

I thought it was at 12?

I am guessing the CGS page will update with a link and a frontpage plug whenever it goes up.

Edit: Just now saw the EDT. So it is in 10 minutes.

Yup, 12:00 EDT, 17:00 BST (UK), and variations thereafter.

Or 5 mins in now time!

[R10k]

Whoopie! :thumbsup:

[salmonmoose]

or ... now ;)

[Leonard]

Hi guys,

We're live:

http://www.softimage.com/events/cgsociety/images/cgs_event_onlineplug.jpg (http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=4595)

>> Worldwide XSI 7 Online Launch Event << (http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=4595)

Thanks to CGSociety and PixelCorps for helping us put on this show. :)

Best,

Leo

[R10k]

Nice vid... really nice ;)

[IslandDreamer]

Congratulations, Softimage! It's amazing to see how far the company has come in terms of public relations and community development. Keep up the great work!

[scyguo]

ICE is cool :)
Congratulation, outstanding features.

[SheepFactory]

Simply kick ass. I can't wait to get my hands on XSI 7.

[skello]

Wonder if something similar to "metaballs" has been implemented for particle surfacing. The water renders hint at it but i have not seen any glimpse of it in the demos

[DougNicola]

Wonder if something similar to "metaballs" has been implemented for particle surfacing. The water renders hint at it but i have not seen any glimpse of it in the demos
Blob blending on ice particles is in there. You can contol amount of blend.

http://www.realfunart.com/images/blob.jpg

[MartijnV]

Awesome! I've been in doubt which 3D software program I would go and use/learn but I made up my mind now. Not that I believe the other 3D Software programs are bad or anything and I'm not saying I won't ever use some of the other 3D programs in the market but it just seems that every release of XSI has some really useful and innovative features that sets it apart and makes me want to get my hands on it. ICE is definately another great example of that. I really like the whole concept behind it.

Thanks for making my choice easier with this release of XSI. :-)

Congratulations and keep up the good work!

[arvid]

Great work, Softimage! Good thing it's not out yet or I'd have to cancel my vacation and go to work and play with ICE instead :D

[HEKTOR]

First of all, before this presentation we think in our company about buy a new XSI, but after presentaion we don't want but a "new" "great" XSI. The softimage boast something what we have from copule years in other software. Blob blending? Blob surfaces we have in other softwares like MAYA or lightwave a copule years ago, soo what is great in XSI in blob?
Maybe the main thing is in a that pseudo-nodes? Yes... yes... It looks like the softimage try do buttons like: "make water", "make fire" or "make toy story". But I think the software shouldn't limit a user at the expense of "fancy color" easy to use nodes. Maybe for people who never see other softwares the new XSI is great, but for me... sorry... no.

P.S Sorry about my English!

Greetings!

[SheepFactory]

First of all, before this presentation we think in our company about buy a new XSI, but after presentaion we don't want but a "new" "great" XSI. The softimage boast something what we have from copule years in other software. Blob blending? Blob surfaces we have in other softwares like MAYA or lightwave a copule years ago, soo what is great in XSI in blob?
Maybe the main thing is in a that pseudo-nodes? Yes... yes... It looks like the softimage try do buttons like: "make water", "make fire" or "make toy story". But I think the software shouldn't limit a user at the expense of "fancy color" easy to use nodes. Maybe for people who never see other softwares the new XSI is great, but for me... sorry... no.

P.S Sorry about my English!

Greetings!

Wow....


wait you are serious?


Did you not watch any of the videos they released before that shows you how in depth you can really get with them?

Here are a couple for you:

http://www.vimeo.com/1313863

http://community.softimage.com/showthread.php?t=1686

[PiXeL_MoNKeY]

The thing that made me wonder about XSI 7 after watching the Launch video is how the presenter kept saying he had to go to an Engineer to get help on doing his demos scenes. After watching the videos ICE may be nice in it can be packaged and distributed, but non-techincal artist will be very lost with it. I have a feeling that if you aren't already scripting tools in a package you probably won't be creating much in ICE. Or if you really wanted this ability you would have probably picked up Houdini long ago.

-Eric

[HEKTOR]

Eric maybe I be a diffrent type of user, I like MAYA and Houdini, becouse I have "certainty" the software don't limit me, only imagination. The ICE is scare me, I think we lost much control.

SheepFactor thaks for video.

[ambient-whisper]

Eric maybe I be a diffrent type of user, I like MAYA and Houdini, becouse I have "certainty" the software don't limit me, only imagination. The ICE is scare me, I think we lost much control.

SheepFactor thaks for video.i guess we will see what happens when its released. i think it will be fine.

[GeneralLethal]

The thing that made me wonder about XSI 7 after watching the Launch video is how the presenter kept saying he had to go to an Engineer to get help on doing his demos scenes. After watching the videos ICE may be nice in it can be packaged and distributed, but non-techincal artist will be very lost with it. I have a feeling that if you aren't already scripting tools in a package you probably won't be creating much in ICE. Or if you really wanted this ability you would have probably picked up Houdini long ago.

-Eric

I don't agree. I tried to learn scripting during downtimes at work, but it takes some time before you get the skills to do something useful with it, and since I don't have that time, I end up forgetting most of what I'd learn through lack of practice. From what I can gather about ICE, if you know how to use the Render Tree, you know everything there is to know about its interface, the rest is trial and error, a bit of doc reading and studying of existing ICE trees. It should be much simpler to pick the skills as you work, as I did with the Render Tree, instead of having to stop production or spend all your evenings to learn a scripting language.

Oh and I tried Houdini but didn't have the courage to try to get used to its interface and workflow.

[SheepFactory]

Hektor, Both you and Eric are wrong because:

A) Ice gives TD's the low level control that you say it doesnt. Just watch the videos I posted or maybe go read the XSI7 thread at the softimage forum here.

B) For artists like me who don't want to go under the hood or learn the math, I can use the ice compounds that come with XSI and the ones that will be shared throughout the community as building blocks to create the effect I am after.

So it fits the needs of both type of user.

Read up more here in this thread, there is a wealth of info in there regarding ICE:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=24&t=650578

[skello]

Blob blending on ice particles is in there. You can contol amount of blend.



n--- iiice!

[L33tace]

I can use the ice compounds that come with XSI and the ones that will be shared throughout the community as building blocks to create the effect I am after.

On the video it shows that there is a search engine as such on the right, search for an action eg gravity force and plug it in, it seems that simple and I am the last person to try any sort of coding never mind understand it. The world map on the video at 27mins is a good example.

[liltbrockie]

First of all, before this presentation we think in our company about buy a new XSI, but after presentaion we don't want but a "new" "great" XSI. The softimage boast something what we have from copule years in other software. Blob blending? Blob surfaces we have in other softwares like MAYA or lightwave a copule years ago, soo what is great in XSI in blob?
Maybe the main thing is in a that pseudo-nodes? Yes... yes... It looks like the softimage try do buttons like: "make water", "make fire" or "make toy story". But I think the software shouldn't limit a user at the expense of "fancy color" easy to use nodes. Maybe for people who never see other softwares the new XSI is great, but for me... sorry... no.

P.S Sorry about my English!

Greetings!

Think you've quite succesfully, totally missed the point of ICE there me old mucker..lol

[PiXeL_MoNKeY]

A) Ice gives TD's the low level control that you say it doesnt. Just watch the videos I posted or maybe go read the XSI7 thread at the softimage forum here.

B) For artists like me who don't want to go under the hood or learn the math, I can use the ice compounds that come with XSI and the ones that will be shared throughout the community as building blocks to create the effect I am after.

So it fits the needs of both type of user.If that was true Houdini would have taken over the industry long ago, since it offers the same/similar features (Nodes and Digital Assets). Softimage really isn't doing anything new for the industry with ICE, they are just making it available to XSI users.

-Eric

[Helli]

Houdini offers much more then ICE. But still it's a total different approach. It was answered in this thread allready. XSI is NOT build on a node based architekture. You have your fast and efficient workflow in XSI every artist can easily learn and use AND now you have the possibility to use a node based system wich builds the new core of what we are all used too in XSI and love.

No one wants a second Houdini. As long time XSI User I love the way it works and would never want to change that workflow. ICE is the perfect extension in that workflow. Easy to use and extremly powerful (and when we believe SI it will be even more powerful in the next releases) but not to complex to scare the Artist away. Powerful and complex enough for TD's and easy to use and functional for Artists, what else could we have wished for "moondust" ??

[Ohmanoggin]

"...The thing that made me wonder about XSI 7 after watching the Launch video is how the presenter kept saying he had to go to an Engineer to get help on doing his demos scenes. "

You mean were he asked for a cloth and a hair simulator. Yes, I agree that ICE wouldn't be useful to the average artist if they had to keep running to an "engineer" everytime you wanted to do something. However, making a cloth or hair simulator in a day is pretty freakin' fast, and once done it is a easily usuable by the everyday artists.

I can see how some are intimidated, but writing scripts is certainly not easier, and much harder to propagate to other users and certainly do not make it so easy for end users to "tweak" a feature.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...Maybe the main thing is in a that pseudo-nodes? Yes... yes... It looks like the softimage try do buttons like: "make water", "make fire" or "make toy story". But I think the software shouldn't limit a user at the expense of "fancy color" easy to use nodes. Maybe for people who never see other softwares the new XSI is great, but for me... sorry... no."

If ICE is not for you, you can always use the SDK and write your own scripts in pretty much any language you want. I fail to see how XSI is limiting you with ICE, but regardess, there is no reason you have to give up your traditional development tools.

Ohmanoggin

[ThE_JacO]

The thing that made me wonder about XSI 7 after watching the Launch video is how the presenter kept saying he had to go to an Engineer to get help on doing his demos scenes. After watching the videos ICE may be nice in it can be packaged and distributed, but non-techincal artist will be very lost with it. I have a feeling that if you aren't already scripting tools in a package you probably won't be creating much in ICE. Or if you really wanted this ability you would have probably picked up Houdini long ago.

-Eric

The demo artist talks about an engineer cranking out in an afternoon a verlet integration cloth simulator.
Of course somebody who can't add two numbers together won't be able to do the same, no matter how much work goes in the front-end to it.

That part of the demo is about how far you can push something by just having the maths at hand and wiring nodes together, without even writing a single expression, not to mention that it means people who can do it, will do it and put the stuff online for free (it's not even out yet and it already happened tons during the beta).
It shows how quickly something that in some other apps would be considered a feature can be released as an xml text file.

There is plenty more that you could do day in and day out that doesn't revolve around the rough end of calculus that will be accessible to an artist, a lot of it some artists aren't even aware they'd be capable of (or capable to learn) because they never wanted to, or had the time to, get over the initial time investment of learning the intricacies of development.

As for the comparison with Houdini and not being anything new blah blah blah, please have the courtesy to read a thread before posting in it :)
The dead horse has been beaten enough probably.

Getting to the "Softimage is giving you make fire and toy story nodes" post, I don't know what to say honestly. It's the exact polar opposite of what ICE is at its roots and how it's been demoed, so I have to assume this is either trolling, or jumping in without having even bothered watching a video or reading through the thread.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but the influx of gratuitious negativity gets old after a few uninformed posts.
Some people will never be impressed anyway, simply because they don't want to be and they won't let themselves be impressed, no matter what is presented to them. Nothing any company can do for that I'm afraid.

[Strang]

The softimage boast something what we have from copule years in other software. Blob blending? Blob surfaces we have in other softwares like MAYA or lightwave a copule years ago, soo what is great in XSI in blob?

if they didn't have it then people would be complaining, no one is claiming the blob surfaces to be superior to anyone else's, its just there and doug was answering a question.

[LucentDreams]

Sorry if this seems harsh, but the influx of gratuitious negativity gets old after a few uninformed posts.
Some people will never be impressed anyway, simply because they don't want to be and they won't let themselves be impressed, no matter what is presented to them. Nothing any company can do for that I'm afraid.

I know it sucks to have such discussions but you have to admit they've asked for it with their marketing and attitude. Its an impressive system but not the newest revolution they make it out to be, I mean that new video hosted on cgsociety, are you kidding me theres only one example in the whole video that I'm not sure I could do in cinema.

It not a matter of being unimpressed, they designed a really solid node system interface wise, they done an amazing job in making it all hyperthreaded, but the concept and the "access" are nothing new to the industry so the attitude of being beyond 3D apps that their marketin does is opening the doors for people to comment back. Its not as much your words but their marketing thats setting themselves up.

If they'd had the approach of look how solid our implementation of such a system is instead of trating it liek something new that makes them beyond a 3D application maybe people would have let it slide.

[DougNicola]

Beating the Dead Horse Highlights Reel (a.k.a XSI/ICE compared to Houdini, for those without the time to read):

1. ICE and Houdini both use nodes. Both node systems are core-level in the software architecture. Houdini is entirely procedural and node-based. XSI is not. Since version 9, Houdini offers a new UI to enable quicker access to many common workflow tasks. With version 7, the XSI core has been rewritten with the ICE architecture. Currently ICE works with particles, deformations, and can be made to drive kinematics if you know the secret handshake and the right people. Well, an environment variable will do it also.

2. ICE is fully multi-threaded everywhere and very, very fast. Houdini is multi-threaded with VEX/VOPS. Houdini is generally not as fast as ICE. Not even close sometimes. A fair statement, I think.

3. ICE is a version 1 system, and is intended to grow in many ways. Houdini is a very mature system, and is still growing. See the new Houdini 9.5 press release.

4. Houdini requires lots (and lots) of expression writing to get the most from the procedural workflow. ICE does not require this. This is not based on my experience, but on reports from users who are far more familiar with Houdini than I am. I want to be as honest a reporter as possible here.

5. Yes, I was answering a question about blobs. XSI users have had access to quite a nifty (free) metaball plugin by Michele Sandroni for a long time. One of my fave tools. Now ICE offers another solution.

~Doug

edited for accuracy.

[circusboy]

As for the comparison with Houdini and not being anything new blah blah blah, please have the courtesy to read a thread before posting in it :)
The dead horse has been beaten enough probably.

Come on Nelly! SMACK!, HIT, bludgeon...

I've not tried v7 yet.

But from my dabbles in Houdini you can often end up having expressions in just about every node talking to the other nodes elsewhere in the scene. People say you don't hardly have to script in Houdini-but writing expressions *often and everywhere* isn't that much different from an non-tech artist perspective.
And its really easy to break the trees if you get context wrong. So Houdini kinda requires you to know what you are doing before you try it. Not absolutly-but more than anything else I've used.

Meanwhile I don't think I've seen a single expression used in any ICE demo so far.
So if there is no scripting, no expressions (required).
Could ICE be even more streamlined than Houdini yet still proceduraly as powerful (for the same kinda task)? If so the artist could flail around much more freely in ICE than Houdini adding/removing arbitrary nodes that still work in the tree and thus allow the blind to see results by accident-and therefore still learning and building stuff quite organically and not so methodically?!...

I'm asking folks who've used both...say Jaco...play horsey?!

[Bullit]

"...The thing that made me wonder about XSI 7 after watching the Launch video is how the presenter kept saying he had to go to an Engineer to get help on doing his demos scenes. "

He just used it for the cloth.
To simulate something we might need to know the parameters needed for it. Tension elasticity, etc

For now i think the most interesting thing about ICE is the ability to share compounds.
I also hope all simulation parameters can use SI units.

[tc]

Come on Nelly! SMACK!, HIT, bludgeon...

And its really easy to break the trees if you get context wrong. So Houdini kinda requires you to know what you are doing before you try it.

you can inherit reference between nodes in ICE.
if you type/pick a reference once, you can inherit this context to the other nodes.

You can put all the nodes of one context inside of one compound, and inherit the reference from the main compound to all the nodes that are inside. Makes sense?
So one ICEtree can be shared by multiple objects and be working in a multiple context mode in different execution ports.
This is relevant if you are working with high-level compounds that can be set (by default) as a Self reference to the ICEtree where it's living.
So ICE does not require context typing per node. But you can have it if you want.
Did I answer your question?

[Strang]

I know it sucks to have such discussions but you have to admit they've asked for it with their marketing and attitude. Its an impressive system but not the newest revolution they make it out to be, I mean that new video hosted on cgsociety, are you kidding me theres only one example in the whole video that I'm not sure I could do in cinema.

ill agree and we knew very early on that these types of discussions were inveitable, but i bet you know well enough how to filter the marketing hype. it is more realtive to xsi users certainly, we are still beating the dead horse here. you can't expect softimage's marketing to say...

"with this new technology we can finally catch up to houdini" or cinema ( http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=5252185&postcount=120 )

you can't expect them to directly credit competing company for influence. besides they were just listening to their users and what they were asking for.

[mdee]

Iare you kidding me theres only one example in the whole video that I'm not sure I could do in [... app name]
[...]

If they'd had the approach of look how solid our implementation of such a system is instead of trating it liek something new that makes them beyond a 3D application maybe people would have let it slide.

I only played with ICE for a couple of days (played is a good word) but what about

- linear skinning/envelope and dual quaternion skinning/envelope with blending based on weight map, built entirely using basic nodes. You can have quaternion skinning on the shoulders and linear skinning on feet..

- ICE is easy to use - I was able to do a specific effect I wanted (it involved two surfaces intersecting, collision detection and having different type of deformation near intersection, emiting particles based on how hard/fast the intersected surface was hit and everything was procedurally animated) in literally 3 hours after I saw ICE in person for the first time. My knowledge of scripting is pretty limited, although I have semi-decent knowledge of maths and physics.

- the bottom line is - you need to try it before jumping to conclusions. It's ground breaking feature,very easy to use and allows content/features creation by users for users. There was nothing like that on the market before.

p.s. No one mentions built in color management system, including custom LUTs, color corrected shaderballs etc.. it's pretty big feature as well.

[olafmayauser]

"Softimage really isn't doing anything new for the industry with ICE, they are just making it available to XSI users."

...Yaaapppp...In My opinion this is very sad true...As Hektor announce earlier We think
in our company very serious about to buy a couple packages of new XSI 7.
Today We saw "The lunch" video that was little disappointment for Me.
I Was count on there will be lots of great new technology mix somehow with they very stabile and good old technology that made years ago.
14 years ago I work on Softimages 3.8 and it was very very great product for animation and easy of use compreing for example with Alias Wavefront. Today We heve XSI and lots of
"New" options or (I dont understand???) "New" ICE interface ? ? ? Ok, I couth the idea that
it is for artist but really hey, all of this what We saw today is in many other 3D packages
like in silly Lightwave. Im not say that XSI is shit, bad or stupid. Always was and will be great software for 3D but it looks that the guys from Softimage want specially compare with old competitor Maya and others like Houdini, Max, Lightwave, etc.
But I think they must do a little more to convinced people like me and other guys around
the planet to use XSI again like many years ago with other packages.

XSI 7 really looks like we have buttons for this and we have button for this, but the big question and as always "PROBLEMS" will be if I (user, My supervisor,etc.) urgently want do somethink more and more and more that was not in the plans from the begging?
Then I think it will be not so nice and easy. And lots of Us know that Our bussines is more and more complicated and Our clients want and need more and more great an "awsome" effect, they push Us harder to do the final resolts.
Sometimes they understand that great effect must be done in longer time than 3 minutes.
Becouse they need great, unique looking effect and they have budget for time that We need.

Ok, That Was my private opinion as a person that work with all 3D software packages out there from last 15 years. As always there will be many people that love XSI and many people that dont. Thanks god We can have choice to pick one that we like, for work that we must do.

PS. ...hymm maybe I still try new XSI someday...

[Strang]

XSI 7 really looks like we have buttons for this and we have button for this, but the big question and as always "PROBLEMS" will be if I (user, My supervisor,etc.) urgently want do somethink more and more and more that was not in the plans from the begging?

dont take offsense but you dont get it at all... above all ICE hasn't been about features or buttons or any of that, its been described to the best of our ability to be a framework and an "Environment" ( E in ICE ) in which to solve problems based around particles/deformations ( for now ).

i do hope you get the chance to try it so your opinions while be based around experience.

[sidd]

[QUOTE=olafmayauser]"XSI 7 really looks like we have buttons for this and we have button for this, but the big question and as always "PROBLEMS" will be if I (user, My supervisor,etc.) urgently want do somethink more and more and more that was not in the plans from the begging?
Then I think it will be not so nice and easy. And lots of Us know that Our bussines is more and more complicated and Our clients want and need more and more great an "awsome" effect, they push Us harder to do the final resolts.
Sometimes they understand that great effect must be done in longer time than 3 minutes.
Becouse they need great, unique looking effect and they have budget for time that We need.

QUOTE]

Whoa....looks like someone totally missed the whole point on ICE there, pretty much everything you`ve said there is wayyyyy off the actual fact...........ICE is not a system with just a button for this and a button for that.......Yes, you can make a button ( node actually ) to create lets say a fire.....but when the client demands a customised solution, you also have the ability to get inside that node, add your own customisations and export it back out so that the other guys in the pipeline or at a partner studio can use it too. It is by far one of the most open and extensible systems i`ve seen out there in 3d

[tc]

"
XSI 7 really looks like we have buttons for this and we have button for this, but the big question and as always "PROBLEMS" will be if I (user, My supervisor,etc.) urgently want do somethink more and more and more that was not in the plans from the begging?

You are totally missing the point.
Was quite clear for me that the presentation of today was showing how artists will be able to get those high-level nodes in ICE and use them without need to know the math inside of it.

You can develop your entire particle creation node if you want. Initializing every single piece of data. You don't need to use the "emit from surface" if you don't like it.

If you understand math and vectors, know a bit of linear algebra, matrices and have any idea of what a dot product is. Good for you. You can go and create very complex tools from scratch with ICE and you will have fun with the thing because it's gonna be incredibly fast.

They did show in the presentation how a Verlet equation could be done entirely in ICE using math nodes. If you want to know whats a Verlet equation please read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verlet_integration


Just to get you informed, watch some videos with low level math nodes being used:
http://www.vimeo.com/1313863

http://www.vimeo.com/1330615

http://community.softimage.com/showthread.php?t=1686

http://www.xsi-brasil.com/XSI_7/mesh_on_mesh_deform/mesh_on_mesh.html

Something about performance:
http://www.xsi-brasil.com/XSI_7/mesh_on_mesh_performance/mesh_on_mesh_performance.html


all of this what We saw today is in many other 3D packages like in silly Lightwave

I don't wanna be rude here... but this is crazy talk!
Please read this entire thread again. Go on XSIbase, Softimage Community site, Lightwave forums, go read a bit about Graph theory... inform yourself.

Anyway, I do hope you can get XSI 7 when it gets released and try it out before take any other conclusions...

[PiXeL_MoNKeY]

As for the comparison with Houdini and not being anything new blah blah blah, please have the courtesy to read a thread before posting in it :)
The dead horse has been beaten enough probably. Sorry for that ThE_JacO, but get the other users from stating that Softimage is being innovating by doing it and I won't mention Houdini. After watching 10+ videos on ICE it does appear that simple tasks will be more complicated, unless someone makes some nodes available.While more complicated tasks will become simplier. I will say is this feature is something that can and will be beneficial to XSI users, though I am still not sure what level of user will actually be using it to its greatest abilities. However, this nor any of the other features is something that will get me to change packages, so the results really isn't as innovating and amazing as others have been stating :).

In the end I hope it does change some of the seat counts to force Autodesk and others to show their hand at what they are cooking up behind closed doors.

-Eric

[tc]

S After watching 10+ videos on ICE it does appear that simple tasks will be more complicated
Which ones? can you list?

[Strang]

as everyone can see we, xsi users, are very excited about v7 but i dont want that excitement to come off as hostility or zealotry. we are the loving kind... really.

[RenisanceX]

Something I am wondering that seems to be heavily over looked ....I imagine seeing tons of free compounds and crazy systems being for free and some higher level ones being sold. Like say a system or compound from a spot or film being sold if its not kept as proprietary tool .


Not familair with this part of the industry but does this happen allot? and the way how ice is shaping to be is this possible?

[LucentDreams]

you can't expect them to directly credit competing company for influence. besides they were just listening to their users and what they were asking for.
No your totally right i wouldn't directly mention another app, but saying something like Extending themselves with a nodal system and taking it to the next level instead of like its a new concept.

I only played with ICE for a couple of days (played is a good word) but what about

- linear skinning/envelope and dual quaternion skinning/envelope with blending based on weight map, built entirely using basic nodes. You can have quaternion skinning on the shoulders and linear skinning on feet..


Hahaha your kidding me impressive not in the slightest wow you were able to build something native to Cinema 4D for two years. Why haven't i built a node for it, cause its been how our skin works normally.


- ICE is easy to use - I was able to do a specific effect I wanted (it involved two surfaces intersecting, collision detection and having different type of deformation near intersection, emiting particles based on how hard/fast the intersected surface was hit and everything was procedurally animated) in literally 3 hours after I saw ICE in person for the first time. My knowledge of scripting is pretty limited, although I have semi-decent knowledge of maths and physics.

Right okay and other apps can't do that with their node system? You obviously have never looked.


- the bottom line is - you need to try it before jumping to conclusions. It's ground breaking feature,very easy to use and allows content/features creation by users for users. There was nothing like that on the market before.

Wrong Theres things exactly like it on the market. All those setups int he new video with the exception of the Hairs receiving the colors I can easily do with Cinema's nodal system. The argument against houdini being entirely reliant on its nodal system and them having to sort of work their way in the opposite direction might be true but cinema has always been a Artist driven visual app like XSI and has had this nodal expression system for 6 years. I built tools, procedural animation systems and rigs (not really a particle guy much) without knowing scripting all the time. My scripting knowledge is using cinema's poor script log to copy and paste and make basic tool scripts. Compounds, cinema calls xgroups they can be saved and shared.

Don't get me wrong there is nice workflows and the Multithreading is undeniably impressive, but that why several of us have said say what it is and impressive new look at what nodal systems can be and how they can work.

Everyone says we can't talk because we've never used ICE but its sooo painfully obvious how little those same people truly know about the other apps.

[R10k]

Everyone says we can't talk because we've never used ICE but its sooo painfully obvious how little those same people truly know about the other apps.

No, I believe they said you should wait and actually use ICE before making certain comments about it. Whether they do or don't know about C4D doesn't change the fact you're drawing comparisons without knowing all the details.

[ThE_JacO]

We got it Kai, C4D rules the world and your unbiased opinion of it is what we should all go about when thinking of Softimage and their evil marketing team.

I know Jen and Leo have been working hard on perfecting their manical, evil genius laughter in fact, and are scheming right now to fool 15 billion users of other softwares into thinking there might be something new in v7.

Of course it's all stuff LW, C4D, and even bryce I'm sure, have had for years, but us lowly XSI users are easily excited you know, and we're all simpletons playing around in a basement and oblivious to any other application, so don't shatter our dreams before release please.
When you'll have actually seen the software I'm sure you'll be able to piss all over it even more effectively, since you'll be able to claim you also used it, and rebuilt all of ICE itself with Xpresso, and made it better, faster and stronger!

I'm sure C4D's skinning is phenomenal, which might explain why it's the most used for character animation, and the point of being able to add dual quaternion skinning and multiple envelopes blending in a day to an application instead of waiting for the next release feature list is absolutely irrelevant and not the core of it.

Now that I'm done reciprocating the attitude, can I remind you this is a news thread?

[Per-Anders]

Actually yes guys keep it on track, this is news, and regardless of how much The_Jaco wants to associate XSI with Lightwave and Bryce we should try to keep to the topic of XSI itself and this rather nice looking update rather than discuss it's competition.

Remember it's just marketing and really that's not so important (even if it is undermining the credence of the message among some people here), it doesn't matter what they say but just looking at it it looks cool to me, yes nodes have existed for a long time in many many apps, not just in our little 3d world, but this is a nice brand spanking new implementation and usually when someone comes out with a nice new peice of software it doesn't actually matter who else does it or has done it before, it matters how well this new kid does it.

Purely as an example and I don't want a discussion of other apps but I don't really remember such a furore for instance when Mudbox appeared (well apart from over the price), instead most people were glad to see it, not because it did something new, it didn't, but because it offered a choice and a different and possibly better approach for some people. XSI is offering another approach here and more tools for all of us to use as we see fit. Who did it first is not important, just that it is done, after all at the cutting edge there are no innovations, only evolutions, anyone that tells you otherwise is either a pompous ass or a marketeer.

[liltbrockie]

We got it Kai, C4D rules the world and your unbiased opinion of it is what we should all go about when thinking of Softimage and their evil marketing team.

I know Jen and Leo have been working hard on perfecting their manical, evil genius laughter in fact, and are scheming right now to fool 15 billion users of other softwares into thinking there might be something new in v7.

Of course it's all stuff LW, C4D, and even bryce I'm sure, have had for years, but us lowly XSI users are easily excited you know, and we're all simpletons playing around in a basement and oblivious to any other application, so don't shatter our dreams before release please.
When you'll have actually seen the software I'm sure you'll be able to piss all over it even more effectively, since you'll be able to claim you also used it, and rebuilt all of ICE itself with Xpresso, and made it better, faster and stronger!

I'm sure C4D's skinning is phenomenal, which might explain why it's the most used for character animation, and the point of being able to add dual quaternion skinning and multiple envelopes blending in a day to an application instead of waiting for the next release feature list is absolutely irrelevant and not the core of it.

Now that I'm done reciprocating the attitude, can I remind you this is a news thread?

lol you forgot about POVRAY and its groundbreaking, intuitive global illumination tools..

[R10k]

Just as a general responce to the video (which I watched last night, and then jumped into bed as it was very late) is- awesome. I'm incredibly excited at the possibilities of XSI 7, and I really enjoyed getting some perspective on ICE had been created. Although some people have limited ICE to "a typical nodal thing", I get the impression there's much more to ICE than what already exists in other apps. Thanks Softimage, the video was a treat to watch. Props must also go to Pixelcorps. They certainly know how to polish a video.

On a side note- I don't understand the comments from some artists in this thread about how complex things look. Sure, some people lack time to learn a lot more and don't have the greatest math skills. Welcome to my world. Trust me though, compared to scripting these kinds of effects, ICE is a an absolute treat... but even if it wasn't, don't you think less whining would be appropriate? 3D is a complex thing. If you're an artist who wants to remain oblivious to anything technical, why are you in 3D? I'm not saying you need to become a programmer or master mathematician. I'm saying that since you're into to digital art and 3D, you should be prepared to get your hands dirty in some of the complexities once in a while. ICE is a wonderful beginners step into that world, and once some of the basics are grasped, a whole new world of thinking will open up to you... a world which has previously only been open to those who've delved into scripting. Heck, I'm not even a 50th the pro as some of you guys, and even I'm able to see ICE can do some amazing things with hardly any effort.

Plus, of course, things like the onscreen 'debugging' readouts make the whole process brilliant for those who like to visually see how things are changing in real time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but no other app I've seen has anything like that. Even my brother, who is an excellent programmer, commented on how cool a feature that was.

People have been complaining lately that many Autodesk apps have been arriving without many new features. Thanks to ICE, it looks to be like XSI 7 ships with a ton of ICE compounds- each one good enough to be considered as a 'killer feature' in a new version of something like Max. Isn't that worth getting excited about, all on its own?

[jasonio]

To those criticising this new stuff (you know... ..."new stuff"??), rather than saying "oh my app already has it", why not ask "So why are people still using XSI if our app already had everything already for the last XX years?". And that's where you find out why XSI has such a loyal following. (By the way I have to ask; why are you here looking if your own app is already so perfect?!)

ICE complicated? (seriously?)

Anyone saying its not far simpler than coding (which really what we are comparing it to), would never have or never has tried to code even the simplest thing. Some of us, however, DO dabble with code/scripting to speed things up, but don't delve into super-complex maths code and C++. I think it's some of these XSI users who will benefit from ICE the most.

Knowing the maths is just the first step to creating custom features in software if you're coding them. Once you've sussed that, you then have to code it and that's what takes the time (days/weeks). With coding/scripting there is no visual debugging. Just a cryptic error message that tells you somethings not right. With ICE you can go from the maths to the nodes to result in-window - no compiling, no scanning through code looking for the mistakes - instant results (although, obviously not for those wanting a 'make-me-star-wars-ep7' button). You get visual debugging - so you can see where things might be going astray - if you were coding, you'd have to code the visual debugging in too and that would probably be as difficult as making the main code.

[Klasz]

i cannot understand how some people can miss the ICE thing so much. are they "blind" ?
i can tell you as a scripter and occasionally coder, that it simply is a revolution. whith some more nodes, (they plan to add some) it seems you could do WHATEVER you can imagine: create special behaviours based upon custom physics laws, link unexpected things between them, speed up things upon what you have dreamed... really it impressed me.
again, i think this can be hard to perceive immediately for people who never scripted, coded, 'entered into the core of the machine', but you won't see examples of something you never saw before, what you have to see is the open architecture which will allow users to build undreamed tools.
or perhaps i'm totally blind myself, and all this exists since a long time in other apps, but the only way i can achieve such things for now whith my so poor knowaledge, is ONLY whith programming and scripting.

[circusboy]

Plus, of course, things like the onscreen 'debugging' readouts make the whole process brilliant for those who like to visually see how things are changing in real time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but no other app I've seen has anything like that. Even my brother, who is an excellent programmer, commented on how cool a feature that was.


Houdini has many feature like this as well (gawd if they didn't i would die). I'm glad they got so many in ICE too. But I think it comes with this sort of territory I think.

But still folks ICE is an increadably big feature from 6.5 to 7! Heck you can use it to build hair, cloth, detailed particle flow and collision behaviors not unlike hydro dynamics (aka RealFlow). How many releases did it take Houdini and its wealth of tools to add stuff like that? How many users have 'rolled their own cloth and hair' in Houidini and C4D way back in version 1 or 2? Sure those were simple examples of each but how far could they go?-It still reaks power to me-especialy since you can do so much in this introductory version. Heck its not even relased yet! When the rest of the software is ICE'd its gonna be a berserker! And the speed. I got 8 cores idling here! VROOM!

And for those that think the 'easy stuff' just got hard. Well from here the 'easy particle setups' look no harder than an typical particle flow setup. So if you need it easier than that I don't know where the fexibility will come from...

[Ohmanoggin]

ICE is a big deal. It's a big deal in it's infancy, and has so much potential to be much more. Saying product X has already got it is not going to change this. Worrying about what marketing says is not going to change this.

And if you have a problem with marketing not being 100% accurate, you better not attend SIGGRAPH this year, because there is going to be more B.S. flying than there hasn't been in years, and most of it will be to counter XSI 7.

Ohmanoggin

[Levi3d]

Sorry for that ThE_JacO, but get the other users from stating that Softimage is being innovating by doing it and I won't mention Houdini. After watching 10+ videos on ICE it does appear that simple tasks will be more complicated, unless someone makes some nodes available.While more complicated tasks will become simplier. I will say is this feature is something that can and will be beneficial to XSI users, though I am still not sure what level of user will actually be using it to its greatest abilities. However, this nor any of the other features is something that will get me to change packages, so the results really isn't as innovating and amazing as others have been stating :).

In the end I hope it does change some of the seat counts to force Autodesk and others to show their hand at what they are cooking up behind closed doors.

-Eric

I genuinely don't understand how you believe things will be more complicated. The standard XSI toolset is still there, so there's no change in that respect, yet there will be a bunch of 'just plug in' ICE nodes/compounds available that will hugely increase the softwares capabillities. To my mind, it delivers the best of both worlds.

As a 3D generalist, with a reasonable technical understanding, but not interested in coding whatsoever, I am absolutely itching to get my hands on the new version.

[Levi3d]

Eric maybe I be a diffrent type of user, I like MAYA and Houdini, becouse I have "certainty" the software don't limit me, only imagination. The ICE is scare me, I think we lost much control.

SheepFactor thaks for video.

Seriously? You think ICE gives the user less control?

I am speechless.

Good luck.

[Levi3d]

The thing that made me wonder about XSI 7 after watching the Launch video is how the presenter kept saying he had to go to an Engineer to get help on doing his demos scenes. After watching the videos ICE may be nice in it can be packaged and distributed, but non-techincal artist will be very lost with it. I have a feeling that if you aren't already scripting tools in a package you probably won't be creating much in ICE. Or if you really wanted this ability you would have probably picked up Houdini long ago.

-Eric

I think what you are missing is that ICE is a part of the XSI release. You'll still have the usual toolset with some enhancements, but what ICE allows the lowly non-coder to do is, well, code your own new features and new effects without actually having to code.

I know that when the rendertree opened up the mental ray shader to the artist, many people founf it offered a huge amount of new opportunities. There were commercially available shaders (X-Ray shader, for example) that I had previously had to pay for because I wasn't able (or unwilling to learn) to write and compile the code, the rendertre exposed all the same functionallity, but in a fairly easy (I say fairly, because at the end of the day understanding the way shaders work is, and always will be highly complex). The rendertree allowed someone like me to build, very quickly and efficiently, a similar Xray look in minutes.

Now ICE will offer the same kind of open access to a lot of funstions and effects, that would previously need to be coded, to every user. It's not a replacement for the XSI workflow, that still exists, but it offers an enormous level of open-ended freedom for the artists and TD's alike. It seems to extremely efficient, fast, flexible and stable, and all withing the same coherent and all-encompassing XSI environment.

I think I've mentioned how keen I am to start using it... Astounding.

[SeaJackal]

I know that for using ICE I don't have to be a math genious. Nevertheless, knowing more math and phisics certainly unleashes the full potentiall of this system.

I would like to ask wihich type of math should I learn in order to become more proficient at making systems like the one shown by Bradley Gabe?,

thanks,

Juan

[Levi3d]

XSI 7 really looks like we have buttons for this and we have button for this, but the big question and as always "PROBLEMS" will be if I (user, My supervisor,etc.) urgently want do somethink more and more and more that was not in the plans from the begging?



I'm amazed how many people really, really, really haven't seen the entire, fundamental ethos and core of ICE.

What you have suggested above is about as completely and utterly wrong as I can imagine you can get in describing ICE. ICE is the exact opposite of what you think it is.

[Levi3d]

I know that for using ICE I don't have to be a math genious. Nevertheless, knowing more math and phisics certainly unleashes the full potentiall of this system.

I would like to ask wihich type of math should I learn in order to become more proficient at making systems like the one shown by Bradley Gabe?,

thanks,

Juan

There have been a couple of books mentioned in the email list. Unfortunately I have deleted the emails now, but there were books entitled something along the lines of "Mathematics for Computer graphics", or such like.

EDIT this one: http://www.nerdbooks.com/item.php?id=1852333804

However a basic understanding of maths and physics should be enough to get you experimenting - and that looks like the best part of ICE is that it allows you to experiment and try things out without out the pain of writing loads of code, modules and scripts. Plug it in, see if it does what you want to do, unplug it if it doesn't!

[SeaJackal]

Thanks Levi3D and The JacO :beer:

[R10k]

Just as a side question- why the comparison of XSI to Houdini? I mean, sure, Houdini is great. But, it's also much more costly. So, in a manner of speaking you get what you get what you pay for.

[ThE_JacO]

I know that for using ICE I don't have to be a math genious. Nevertheless, knowing more math and phisics certainly unleashes the full potentiall of this system.

I would like to ask wihich type of math should I learn in order to become more proficient at making systems like the one shown by Bradley Gabe?,

thanks,

Juan

Basic Algebra, Linear Algebra, Trigonometry I, Calculus I, Calculus II
This is the (IMO) order of importance and approachability of the subjects.

Linear Algebra above all for 3D is a rule that works more times than not :)

[Levi3d]

Thanks Levi3D

No problem, I just ordered it myself!

May be a bit nearer home for you... UK website -> http://www.bookrabbit.com/catalogue/detail/bookid/2840939

[R10k]

For those who never got into maths in school and need a serious refresher (myself as an example) Math Advantage (http://www.homeworkhelp.com) is a great way to learn, providing you don't mind flash content designed for kids. The information is great though, and covers a lot more than you'd find in a book. Plus, it's dirt cheap for what you get.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand... ;)

[digitallysane]

As both a Houdini and XSI user, no, they aren't the same thing.[..]
[...]Nodes and wiring in ICE are of a much lower and atomical level than houdini, and the interaction is a lot close to a very friendly programming system than it is to a node wrapping of higher level tools.[...]
[...]but you don't have the lowest level of granularity to do something like pulling any data you want and using it somewhere else (IE: try to raytrace a surface inside the scene, derive tangency, cross product with a normal and then use that as incremental velocity for nearby fields).[...]
If you can show me an (efficiently multithreaded) node with polymorphic ports called multiplication that I can put inside a POP and plug derivatives into (coming from a node called raytracing possibly), I'll be happy to simply step back and say I've never got anything out of an app that I've used and seen used for a few years now.
It's strange that in all those years since you say you use Houdini you never used VOPs (it seems).
VOPs allow you to go as low as you want.
They also let you create a new operator which can be then used in your networks of operators. They are close to a very friendly programming system. You can define the UI of such an operator. Those operators can be shared. You can go inside them and see how they're built. You can even have a node called multiplication with polimorphic ports. You can't create new topology, just manipulate existing stuff.
Sounds familiar?
Besides the fact that you can work on geometry and particles with VOPs, you can also create your own compositing operators, shaders and channel operators (like being able to create tools for the channel mixer).
Since you're a Houdini user, make a VOP POP (particle operator) or a VOP SOP (surface operator) and look at the available operators.
I don't understand exactly why when everybody keeps on comparing ICE with VOPs (since ICE is obviously inspired from VOPs) you insist on comparing ICE with Houdini's generic networks of operators (the equivalent of XSI's stack as far as their generic architectures can be compared) and pretend VOPs shouldn't be mentioned (or that they don't exist). All your statements about the impossibility of doing low-level stuff with Houdini in a visual way are simply false. I don't know if it's on purpose or out of ignorance, but they are false.
ICE is in 2008 what VOPs were in 2002. It was about time. As someone said, it's a nice implementation and that's all. Nothing new under the sun. Maybe you don't like to hear that but ICE and compounds have inside XSI exactly the same place, role and workflow that VOPs and OTLs had in Houdini, for years.
For me, as an XSI user, it's nice to have it. Also for me as an XSI user, is dissapointing to see that the best that Softimage can do when "innovating" is closely copying whole concepts and workflows form other apps. I don't like Autodesk at all and I switched to Houdini & XSI long time ago, but despite the continuous bashing they get from the XSI community, those guys really brought something innovative, original and new on the market with nCloth.

Dragos

[Strang]

yep that horse isnt dead enough...

we ( at least i ) have respect for the originators and we ( for the most part ) dont claim to have something no one else has. i can see how softimage saying that do seems unfair, but they aren't just going to say "we copied houdini!".

[mzaloon]

please, stop this discussion, is stupid!

ICE is ice, is not identical to houdini, the exact same situation with launch os Mudbox (copied Zbrush!? YES!) identical? NO. Diferent presentation of same idea from the same concept, it is ICE, it is Mud in relation to Zbrush.

What revolutionize ICE is have nodal low level system integrated in a REAL character animation software, is what HOUDINI is not! Houdini is only technichal arsenal, not user friendly in any other area!

Softimage is right saying this COMBINATION (powerfull low nodal+complete character system) is innovative, yes, really it is! Houdini not reach this powerfull combination.

Houdini is fantastic, and is a very mature system.
But the choice for XSI is much more complete now, with ICE, best of two worlds.

My hope is that softimage soon implement ICE in all xsi, priority is "geometry creation" via nodes, like create geometry, what houdini do very well and ice not do yet.

End of discussion.

this thread is annoying me!

[tonypolygoni]

well I have to say that this thread is very entertaining to read while working.
My experience:

As a non scripter, so far I have been limited in many ways, to do what I sometimes had in mind. Thats 100% related to the fact that I can't script....besides the fact that my school math got kind of rusty in the last decades.

So I had the chance to try the beta of xsi7. The stuff I was able to do with it was just amazing. Creating very complex particle sims, creating custom deformers was very very easy. It's a lot of fun guys! Trust me ;)

I wanna say thanks to Softimage for this upcoming release. Props to you guys!
peace

[ambient-whisper]

what id rather see than a procedural modelling system in xsi ( atleast for now ), is the ability to use ice to completely replace the schematic view and use ice for all of the rigging setup. make it all procedural. reason i say this is because i just watched the fire making video and the way he made the compound at the end with only the controls he wanted, by easily dragging and dropping is something that im sure would appeal greatly to people that animate really complex creatures, or mechanical objects/environments. at the same time, i hope that ice can be applied to environment lighting setups. make a single pane with only the controls that you want to see shown to the user, for easier control of a scenes lights.

houdini does this throughout the entire application with digital assets, and id love to see this happen throughout the entire xsi as well. ( i actually prefer the simplicity of the xsi setup ( even though houdini seems to have a lot more options for creating custom panes. )

im sure it will come in time.

[tonypolygoni]

http://www.vimeo.com/sukio

my friend andreas posted some vids..

[tc]

Here's a video showing some particle<-->mesh interaction:

http://www.xsi-brasil.com/XSI_7/deform_by_particle/deform_by_particle.html

[Strang]

http://www.vimeo.com/sukio

my friend andreas posted some vids..

i love him

[luCiFEAR]

o.O simply nice

[husainsheraif]

mybe it will used in modeling
do you have an idea ?

[Lone Deranger]

With all the attention given to ICE, the other new features of XSI7.0 have gotten a little snowed under. I had hoped to see some demonstrations given of the new MentalRay features during the live launch event. Can we still expect these or is ICE paramount?

[CiaranM]

http://www.vimeo.com/sukio

my friend andreas posted some vids..

What, no lumberjacks?
Great work, as always Andreas!

[vmpre]

With all the attention given to ICE, the other new features of XSI7.0 have gotten a little snowed under. I had hoped to see some demonstrations given of the new MentalRay features during the live launch event. Can we still expect these or is ICE paramount?

Other new features other than ICE, including the new MR and Color Management Tools

http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/new_features/default.aspx

HTH

[Lone Deranger]

Thanks vmpre! I read through that page some time ago.
However I had hoped to see some video demonstrations of new features other than ICE during the Live Launch event.

[ambient-whisper]

one new quick question. how does mental ray scale with cores now? has it improved since earlier versions? when i last used xsi, using 2 cores over just a single one gave an improvement between 25-50% ( usually closer to 25% ) so i am wondering what kind of performance we could expect with a 4 core machine.

[tc]

one new quick question. how does mental ray scale with cores now? has it improved since earlier versions? when i last used xsi, using 2 cores over just a single one gave an improvement between 25-50% ( usually closer to 25% ) so i am wondering what kind of performance we could expect with a 4 core machine.

It can use all cores for rendering with mentalray. My 8 cores go 100%.
I think even v5.xx could use all cores... or maybe before it.

[liquidik]

I still would love to see some goodness with a character rig and deformations driven by ice, maybe a muscle sim...

Thiago anything for us ?

-Gian

[dantea]

It can use all cores for rendering with mentalray. My 8 cores go 100%.
I think even v5.xx could use all cores... or maybe before it.

Who cares if it goes up to 100% cpu usage. How much FASTER is it compared to when only using 1 core?

[DougNicola]

Who cares if it goes up to 100% cpu usage. How much FASTER is it compared to when only using 1 core?
Did some mental ray tests a while ago going from a fast (I think 3.4GHz) single core to my 2.66GHz 8 core. Scaling was almost linear. I think it varied from about 6.8-7.4 times faster. Not quite 8 times, but pretty close.

~Doug

[ambient-whisper]

so we can assume its about 85+ % per core. thats pretty good. and yeah, thats what i meant too, how efficient is it about using the cores, and not if it goes to 100% usage :).

[Leonard]

Hi guys,

We've just posted a whole new set of demos for Softimage ICE showing the possibilities of the new architecture. We've also let the cat out of the bag regarding ICE Kinematics - showing rigging tools built with ICE.

http://community.softimage.com/showthread.php?t=1964

New demos include:
- Crowds Navigating Waypoint Graphs
- Verlet Integration for Cloth and Soft Body Dynamics
- Linear Blend and Dual Quaternion Skinning
- Particles – Continuous Collision Engine
- Particles – Growing Plants and Grass
- Particles – Strand Dynamics
- ICE Kinematics – Rigging Constraints
- ICE Kinematics – Rigging IK
- ICE Kinematics – Rigging Spines
- ICE Kinematics – Rigging a Dynamic Tail

Enjoy! :)

Leo

[MiguelAngeloCBT]

Today, I joined to the club! :applause: Thanks Softimage and CGSociety! :thumbsup:


(http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=&stc=1)

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