Modleling a Night Club

[brokenpoly]

Hi man!
I would suggest you go to a bar in your area and do your own measurements. You should also bring a camera and take photos of everything you could use for textures and inspiration.
If you don`t have a club nearby, it`s not too difficult to measure the scale of the bar in the picture you posted. Just imagine a normal person in that photo, then you could roughly get the correct scale :)

Also, check out this one for inspiration:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/25525.html

Good luck!

[yann22]

How about checking out some games that come with an editor :thumbsup:. I faintly remember that Deus Ex had one or two bar scenes and UnrealED is quite simple. I'm sure there are many more recent options, but I'm a bit out of the loop.

Cheers,
Yann

[subsilly]

Hey, you could always try pacing up and down the union bar, least it gives you bit of feel for size, if not go to the pub lol...like you need an excuse.
Other thing to do is measure your room and make a box with those dimesions, then you can reference it when your modelling. make it 3 times bigger etc etc...

We had to do a room in our first year, however we did our rooms in the court (I went to staffs aswell btw lol, just graduated) and then we had to do a walkthrough in the 2nd semester, scale for that was quite hard cos I made a prision scene. Best thing is always research things, I looked at companies that made prison beds and the screwless toilets and sinks and they blueprints and reference images to show the 'customer'.
So look for bar equipment suppliers on tinterweb and companies that make things for restaurants, cos there'll be some online.

work over the summer...never heard of that though :S
poor you...

[subsilly]

----edit----

[Zerox01]

thankyou for the reply guys and subsilly thank you for your comment you also will have a PM shortly :)

Also im doing a resit mate :)

Ive been using the tutorial site topic on this website aswell as others and i must say i find that they may say to use certain teqneques that i just dont understand and have found that my lack of knolage of the individual tools IE Vray

is there any kind of information for the inbuilt tools in max ? A standard for sizes of objects ?

Also has anyone used any books that they have found very usefull for a Strugling person like me :)

[brokenpoly]

I would suggest to have a look at the excellent tutorials over at www.3dtotal.com (http://www.3dtotal.com)! They have some splendid tutorials covering everything from basic modelling to advanced texturing and lighting :)

[Zerox01]

okay i have since found out that i cannot use vray.

Ive also been thourghly reading the info on this forum

But still struggle with lighting objects (ie glow) and making glass fishtanks ect

[brokenpoly]

Hi again man!
It seems that you`re prioritizing a bit wrong when it comes to this project. IMO you should focus on getting your scene up`n running before you start to worry about the lighting and rendering. I mean, you gotta have something to illuminate, right ;)

When you`re ready to light your scene, I suggest you read these articles to get a better understanding of lighting:

http://www.itchy-animation.co.uk/light.htm
http://www.mariomalagrino.com/illuminationtutorial.pdf
http://www.mariomalagrino.com/advanced-illumination.pdf
http://www.mariomalagrino.com/material-tutorials-3d-studio-max.html


Good luck!

[Zerox01]

I am realy struggling to find a good tutorial on making a bar and i also need to do beer tap's.

Anyone got any tips for this ?


Also if i make one object using mental ray, does this mean all objects have to use it ?

[subsilly]

Dude I'd stick to the modelling for now. In first year, which I presume you are, they're more concerned about how you make things more than the rendering and lighting, beings they break those down into individual models in the 2nd and 3rd years.

For beer taps I'd recommend poly modelling, make a box, extrude/chamfer it, manipulate vertexes etc.
If not, sounds like most of the things are too complex, change the room your gona make, make it simplier with more 'ordinary' shapes that you can make several objects, then at least you have something to hand in.

But i'd honestly forget about mental ray for now...we didn't use it till 3rd year

Hope that helps

[Zerox01]

i have taken your advice at put that aside for another day

so far i have a pod chair , sink ,glass ectwhat im having problem with is that i wish to make a good size club bar but cant seam to find good referance , anyone got ideas ?


Also how would i make the glow box in this pic : http://www.disco-design-online.com/DISCO%20LIGHTS.jpg

how would you make it glow withought mental ray ?

also on this tutorial :http://www.oktutorials.com/3d-studio-max-tutorials/modeling/comfy-armchair-p3

where it asks me to connect 2 edges , i dont get that bridge button ?

[Santucci]

For sizes, woodworkers and handymen have standard heights and measurements they keep to. http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=117 That's one site that has some. I used to have a better one but it's shut down apparently. When you want the height of a bar or a chair or anything else, don't look at artist sites, go looking at custom furniture sites or handymen sites.

For the bar, start with a box and use extrusions to make the general shape from just looking down (not including the ledge that extends over customer's laps). Once you have that, extrude it up to about 6-10 cm of where you want the top, then extrude again to bring it up to the proper height. Select those smaller polys along the side, at the top, but only the ones on the outside, where you want the people to sit. Extrude out those polygons to make the ledge that people will sit their drinks on. You can get more involved with extrusions to make a more complex and detailed model.

For the beer taps, I would loft or revolve a spline, actually (unless things have changed in Max, it's been a while for me). If nothing else, stacking up primitives to make an interesting shape can work too.

For the glow... make the material a little self illuminating (not sure what it's called in Max anymore) but don't turn it up too far. The cubes there aren't like light bulbs. Ideally you'd put a texture on it to get the uneven shading/illuminating it has, but only bother with that if you have time. Once you've got that, put an omni/point light inside it, make sure it doesn't cast shadows and make the color of the light a pale blue. Make sure you keep the light to like .3 at the most and play with the fall off to make sure it doesn't light up the whole room.

Give us some screen shots of where you are if you have more questions.

[Zerox01]

Hey Everyone , Thanks for the help so far !



Im having some problems with glow materials in max

im simply trying to make a glowing cube to start with as previously described as this will give me an understanding of the texture.

But also later i shall be creating a dancefloor ,text and other neon lights ect around my 2 rooms


heres's what ive been trying
Create box 60 x 60 x 60 > conv to poly > Press M
1. Change in the material editor the Standard material to an Architectural -image 1-.
2. Choose the color of your glowing material in the diffuse color slot.(V.light Blue)
3. Now go to the setting "luminance cd/m2". (set to 2600)

now i dont wish to use the mental ray render, But what else do i need to do ???

this is how my object looks.....

Picture : http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/neilbagley/glowerror.jpg

[Santucci]

Looks good so far.

Firstly, why do you have a convert to polys step? Aren't you starting with a polygon cube?

Secondly, your box looks perfect, just hide a point/omni light inside it. Set it's color to pale blue and turn it down so it's not full strength. Make sure it's not casting shadows and play with the fall off to get it to cast how you want. If you want a slight fluzzy glow around it, I'm afraid I've been away from Max too long to know how to do it. I'm sure someone else can help you with that here though. Try the materialing forum.

Thirdly, you might want to turn down the cube's glow so you get some shading to get it to look more like the cubes in the photo. Once you've got other things roughed out, you might want to go in and put a cloud in the box's glow and then make the two cloud colors glow at different strengths and slightly different colors (one more white and one more blue). This is slightly more advanced materialing so you might not be at that level yet.

Finally, don't touch mental ray at your level. It's not cus it's more advanced or anything like that. The thing with mental ray is that it does things for you. You need to know how to fake radiosity, light emiting objects, and so forth without mental ray.

[Zerox01]

Looks good so far.

Firstly, why do you have a convert to polys step? Aren't you starting with a polygon cube?

Secondly, your box looks perfect, just hide a point/omni light inside it. Set it's color to pale blue and turn it down so it's not full strength. Make sure it's not casting shadows and play with the fall off to get it to cast how you want. If you want a slight fluzzy glow around it, I'm afraid I've been away from Max too long to know how to do it. I'm sure someone else can help you with that here though. Try the materialing forum.

Thirdly, you might want to turn down the cube's glow so you get some shading to get it to look more like the cubes in the photo. Once you've got other things roughed out, you might want to go in and put a cloud in the box's glow and then make the two cloud colors glow at different strengths and slightly different colors (one more white and one more blue). This is slightly more advanced materialing so you might not be at that level yet.

Finally, don't touch mental ray at your level. It's not cus it's more advanced or anything like that. The thing with mental ray is that it does things for you. You need to know how to fake radiosity, light emiting objects, and so forth without mental ray.


I must say im verry impressed my your responce's i shall try this first thing in the morning. if all work's okay i will try the cloud method as im being marked on this and hopefully that will help. ill let you know my results with pic's :)

So in the meantime can anyone help with a slight fluzzy glow around this object ?

Some people may wish to reply in the materials section Topic

heres the link :http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=5260154#post5260154

[Blanks]

Im a bit cunfused about where your heading this. In my opinion i would focus on the modeling. Without a good model the rest is pointless. I would love to help you with the modeling if you would post some images of where you are up to now.

[Zerox01]

someone asked for some progress in modeling

Im trying to make a bar at the moment but it feels Pub like more than Club like , could anyone help with this ?

Most of all this is practicaly the first model im making from scratch and i only have 1 week left to get this whole project done so the nuse is geting tight round my neck.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/neilbagley/untitled9999999999.jpg

Mainly : How could i make this more Photo realistic ????

Atm its a standard box with a poly modifier and a few - extrustions and insets with a little beviling.

and some quick texture applied (will look into this more later IE tommorow:) )



Also these are the model's i have so far

Pod Chair
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/neilbagley/PODCHAIR.jpg
Ash Tray
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/neilbagley/ASHTRAY.jpg
Sink
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/neilbagley/SINK.jpg
Taps
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/neilbagley/TAPS.jpg
Glasses (Shot,Drink,Wiskey glasses)(in progress also)
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/neilbagley/GLASSES.jpg
Disco Ball < Need's work !
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/neilbagley/DISCOBALL.jpg
Can < Need's work !
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/neilbagley/3dsmaxproblem.jpg

This is what i think i need

Bar stool
Bar A # In progress + topic of topic ( lol )
Bar B #In progress + topic of topic
Big Speakers :
Neon Lights
Neon Cube
Dance Floor
Big glass wall thats glass with a running waterfall effect thats lit ( id like :D )
Wall Lamps / Light Fixings's


Also later ill post the floor diagram here. (X)

As another side note how do you make a poly box without converting?

[subsilly]

I always used to apply a glow to objects like light bulbs etc, Google a tutorial for making a lightsaber. There should be a few on the tutorial sites somewhere, they've very useful about telling you how to do it, then just adapt it to what you want to use it for.



Most things are out there on tutorial websites, unfortunately it means trawling them for a while till you find what you want, sometimes you find something else interesting you think you might be able to incorporate. Once you’ve found them just adapt them to what you want to use them for.



Bob’s your uncle!

[Zerox01]

can some one give me tips on improving the models i post up :)

hope fully i can get them all done and looking okay in the next few days

also how would i make the pod table in this photo ?
http://www.disco-panel.com/70s_Retro_Modern_NIGHTCLUB_FURNITURE_Design.jpg

[Zerox01]

i swear people were more responcive the other day #?

[Santucci]

Sorry, some projects had me busy.

It's not modeling, but I would drop the shininess and glassiness of some of your items. The sink in perticular is way too reflective. No bar shink looks like that.

But, back to the models, I agree that the bar isn't doing it. My first question is the ledge that's on the same side as the shelves. The shelves face the bartender, while the ledge should face the customers. Also, why is the ledge stepped down from the top surface? I would try and make a more curvy bar to get more of a nightclub feel, too.

For the table, I would start with a sphere (not a very dense one) and squash it down. Then I'd use other spheres to boolean out the indentations (and maybe chop off the bottom of it to get it properly flat). After that, flatten out the history (convert to an editable mesh is I think how that's done in max) and apply a smooth to get the rounded look.

[Zerox01]

Thank you for you comments

Ive lowered the spec and gloss aswell as reducing the reflections as they were abit hard.

heres the sink result : http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/neilbagley/sinkprogress1.jpg

Im having a go at the table now i am curious about making the bottom flat , do you mean delete the bottom faces ? and if so how would you flatten the mising pollys?

Im also trying to make this chair http://www.oktutorials.com/3d-studio-max-tutorials/modeling/comfy-armchair-p3

But ive found i have no bridge button ?

Screenshot :http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/neilbagley/chairpart1.jpg

Anyone clarify on this ?

As another side note how do you make a poly box without converting?

[inka]

You don,t have the bridge option(edge mode) in 3dsmax7.

Put an Edit Poly modifier above the box.

Some advise: start with the tutorials that ships with the program, they are the best too learn!

[Zerox01]

Okay ive got most of the manuals now and i am reading them in my spare time but i simply dont have time to waste as im almost at my personal deadline.

Im Currently trying to model a bar stool but am unsure how to create the cuve of the seat or the very twisted bar ( althought i belive i could use some kind of spline ?)

Picture : http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/neilbagley/barstoolcurvy_dwr.jpg

Advice is needed :) ive tried using a bend mod but it seamed to bend the hole surface even if i moved the gizmo.

[Zerox01]

Okay ive managed to get the bend i was looking for but ive found a new problem

i need to round the edges at the back of the chair ?

What would be the best way of doing this ?

Picture :http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/neilbagley/seat.jpg

[Santucci]

Im having a go at the table now i am curious about making the bottom flat , do you mean delete the bottom faces ? and if so how would you flatten the mising pollys

No, for that, boolean off the bottom to make it nice and smooth. Or you can just embed it into the floor. If you can't tell it's going through the floor, who cares? You've got a deadline after all.

For the chair... First, make a spline in the shape of the bar that goes around the seat. Now, make a spline rectangle. Now, select the spline and apply a... lathe... I think. Been a while but I believe that's what Max calls it. Use the rectangle for the lathe and it should wrap around the spline to give you the shape you want. You will probably have to tweek it with rotations and may have to put the rectangle along the spline a few times. Fiddle with it and you'll get it.

[Zerox01]

Thanks for your advice you actualy solved the problem i was coming up with next, but the seat is square at the back and im unsure of how to curve this ?

Thankyou

[Santucci]

Ah, now I see what you're trying to do. You would probably have been better to get that curve before bending it around. At this stage it's gonna be awkward, but, does it have to match the photo? I don't think the seat would be bad left without those curves.

[Zerox01]

thats exacly the problem i thought i would have, im happy too leave it for now..

Althought i would like to know your advice on creating the shape before the bend ?

Many thanks you have been verry helpfull

Also for the table i thought i could adjust the hemisphere althought i tried using sphere's to boolian the table but the edges of the cut was too sharp ? any advice ?

[Santucci]

Before the bend, I would have A. made it with a chamfer rectangle (start out with it really thick and then scale it vertically so you still have the wide curves from the top, but have the sides look right too) and then edited the mesh to make it flat on the other side. Does that make sense?

For the table, if you want it to be rounded at the bottom you can boolean then convert to editable mesh and, if the boolean is good enough, you should be able to select the sharp edge at the bottom and chamfer it (I think that's the term max uses). If the boolean doesn't give you a good enough mesh... I would select some of the very bottom vertices (not all of them just a few rows) and use solft selection so that when you push up it will make a rounded bottom for you. You might get a bowl indentation underneath but that's not necessarily bad and no one will see it but you anyway.

[UnixMonkey]

Most of the curvilinear forms, like the bars, can be created using lofts. Do a search in the help section for better description of the tool, but you basically create a profile that is in the shape of a section cut though the object then create a path the profile is swept along. Next in the modify tab select the path and attach a loft and select the profile. I use these a lot for irregular shapes. The lofts in Max are a pain. You may have to rotate your profile's geometry around the gizmo in order to get the orientation right. I have given up trying to do these in Max because it's so maddening, but it is fast if you are under a time crunch.

I would make the table you showed in one of the previous post out of nurbs, then convert to polys if needed for further editing.

I also tend to model based on materials. I create a layer for each material. All object that have the same material go on the same layer. That way all the stainless items go one one layer, all blue neon items go on another etc... It makes adding and tweeking materials easier. It also means that a light fixture may have its metal elements on one layer, its glass items on a second layer, and its bulb on a third layer. But when you are adding material you simple select a layer select all objects on that layer and add your material to all selected objects. It's a great time saver.

Lastly when modeling buildings I nearly always start with a plan and elevation of the space I'm modeling. I import the plan and elevation and build my objects in places specified on the plan and extrude up to the height of the elevation. I just makes things easier and MUCH faster, but it also means you have to spend time creating the plan and elevation first.

Good luck.

Richard

[Zerox01]

Thank you richard that info on layers was very usefull and i understand where you are comning from in this respect

since the last post i have created the chair and now am planning to focus on the last few model's

One question i would like to ask is what would be the best way of importing my models (model + texture) into 2 rooms. also with reflections should i reset them all to enviroment ?

And finaly is there a good tutorial nocking about on radiosity advanced lighting soloution

Also any advice on nurbs is welcome as i have to create a nurbs model for my assignment.

Thankyou all for your advice :)

[UnixMonkey]

I don't have my computer with Max with me right now and it is not my primary tool, but here goes. As for bringing in your other models, if they are all created in Max you should use the "Merge" tool (File->Merge). This will bring in all of the texture etc... Although I'm not sure about lights. Your textures may need to be named something unique, or they will either replace or be replaced by the ones in your existing scene.

As for Radiosity. I have used it, but I don't remember all of the settings off the top of my head. I do know that you will need to bake your scene (create solution) using the Radiosity dialog. The baking subdivides the geometry into a finer mesh. This mesh can be reset. There is a control for the mesh density. The greater the mesh density the better the lighting solution. If you do anything to the scene, you will need to reset and recreate the solution. There is also a control for solution refinement. It is given in a percentage. I think the default is somewhere around 75%. You should set it higher. The higher the percentage the better your scene will look, but the longer the rendering times. I have used it as high as 98%, but it take forever to solve the lighting and to render the scene.

Again, because Max isn't my primary tool I can't give an exact process on the Nurbs, but I have used them in Max. What I did, if I remember right, was to create 2 splines then convert one of them to a nurb (right-click->convert->nurb). When you do this the nurb editer dialog should pop up. Hit the UV loft button in the nurb dialog then select the other spline/shape. This should cause one of the splines to be skinned across the other. You can then add control vertices and refine the nurb mesh that was created from the splines. You can also edit the control vertices to modify the mesh's shape. You may need to experiment with both open and closed splines/shapes. If I remember right, nurbs in Max don't work on 3D geometry, so you can't convert a cube to a nurb, but I may be wrong about that. Sorry I can't help more with this.

Richard

[Santucci]

Lofts. I'm sorry. Lofts are what I meant, not lathes. Sorry, it's been 5 years since I used Max. I loved using them, even though Unixmonkey hated them, so it could go either way for you.

For the seat you asked me about earlier, I'm retarded. It just occurred to me that you can do that very easily with lofts as well. A little playing should get you the exact shape you want.

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