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Array
05-24-2003, 09:24 AM
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~okan/Pixie/pixie.htm

hooray!

CGmonkey
05-24-2003, 02:00 PM
That's seriously awesome!

Array
05-24-2003, 06:46 PM
yeah, for those of you who have never heard of Pixie before, its a FREE renderman compliant renderer which pretty much matches prman11 feature for feature. somehow i dont miss Entropy so much anymore :beer:

JA-forreal
05-24-2003, 07:15 PM
Hopefully I can get this one to work with Blender Tuhopu Version in Windows 2k. Looks beautiful.

Is it necessary to set up a PATH in windows for Pixie? If so, do I link it to the Pixie Dir. ? The answer is in the website docs. Problem solved.

Emberghost
05-24-2003, 07:23 PM
Sorry but I am not firmiliar with 3rd party renderers, but my question is does Pixie work for and 3d program. I have cinema 4d r7 and was wondering if Pixie worked for that....thanks :)

Array
05-24-2003, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by Emberghost
Sorry but I am not firmiliar with 3rd party renderers, but my question is does Pixie work for and 3d program. I have cinema 4d r7 and was wondering if Pixie worked for that....thanks :)

Pixie is a renderman compliant renderer. it strictly adheres to the renderman specification which was initially specified by Pixar in the 1980's. As input, it takes .RIB files for scene description, and .SL for shader definitions. theres actually quite a few programs which can output RIBS out there, such as Wings3d, Rhino3d (via rhinoman), 3dsmax via plugins, Maya via plugins...not sure if there are any .RIB exporters for cinema4d though.

also, if you are not comfortable writing your own shaders, you can allways try shaderman:

http://www.dream.com.ua/thetool.html

JA-forreal
05-24-2003, 07:40 PM
Emberghost, Pixie should work with Cinema 4d if you have a rib file export script.

But it you don't, you are free to download Blender and export your Cinema 4d scene models into Blender as obj files and output the scene as a rib file to Pixie. Blender has lots of rib file exporters that work via it's python interface.

Ask for help here on the Blender community forum-

http://www.elysiun.com/forum/index.php

There should be someone who can help you, possibly a fellow Cinema 4d user. Also try here-

www.blender.org

No 3d artist should be left out of the rib render fun. Hey, do it like hollywood why don't ya.

JA-forreal
05-24-2003, 07:53 PM
Oh man, that particle stuff is SWEEEET!

http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~okan/Pixie/pixie.htm

Array, you hooked us up real good this time! Oh yeah.

Julez4001
05-24-2003, 08:09 PM
Is there a RIB exporter for Lightwave?

JA-forreal
05-24-2003, 08:17 PM
I don't know if any of you have ever exported a game level made in the 3d software of choice back into quake or halflife, etc, all exportation is possible via script. And if your 3d app doesn't have such a script you work with one that does. Blender is a good 3d Middle tool to help you get any simple to complex 3d scenes from your favorite app out to Pixie or Yafray or whatever moves ya.

-Hey I'm no rocket scientist but I like to test fly rockets.

Array
05-24-2003, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by Julez4001
Is there a RIB exporter for Lightwave?

yes, lightman exports ribs from lightwave:

http://www.td-grafik.de/softw/lightman.php3?lang=en

JA-forreal
05-24-2003, 08:23 PM
Hey Julez4001, I once heard a rumor about some python coders that were writing a script to get complete animation scene files out of Lightwave and into Blender. That could have just been for some inhouse work but you may want to check that out. There are lightwave users on this list that make use of Blender. So.

JA-forreal
05-24-2003, 08:25 PM
Julez4001, Array has the fix. That's what I love about this forum.

ambient-whisper
05-24-2003, 08:39 PM
wonder how its displacements are.

Stu_Hacking
05-24-2003, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by Array
yeah, for those of you who have never heard of Pixie before, its a FREE renderman compliant renderer which pretty much matches prman11 feature for feature. somehow i dont miss Entropy so much anymore :beer:


it looks extremely nice, just need to get linux up again :)

but I hope pixar doesn't crack down on this one


is there any chance of that happening?:shrug:

Theta-Dot
05-24-2003, 09:10 PM
Is this something that is easy to use? I don't really want to get into it if it's something that's over my head.

=ThetaDot=

Xtra
05-24-2003, 09:22 PM
I saw the explosion sim created with Pixie. That's awesome. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with the Renderman specs and I can't code in C.

JA-forreal
05-24-2003, 09:23 PM
Is this something that is easy to use? I don't really want to get into it if it's something that's over my head.

I am a traditional artist/designer. When I learned 3d art everything was "over" my head. HeHe. I had to study the docs, call tech support, get books and then I got on 3d web forums. Ah, now things are all so much clearer.

Easy is a relative word. Is is possible to use Pixie for simple basic 3d renders? Yes, if you use the right software that works with your system. You will have to ask around, but I'm sure you will be able to render with it as good as your current render setup.

Array
05-24-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by ambient-whisper
wonder how its displacements are.

I'm working on a displacement shader to test out in pixie right now. ill post images when i get some good results.

fxjeane
05-24-2003, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by Theta-Dot
Is this something that is easy to use? I don't really want to get into it if it's something that's over my head.

=ThetaDot=

It all depends how familiar you are with using the RenderMan standard and the Shading language. If you are familiar with it then it will be very easy to use Pixie.
If you are not familiar with RenderMan then I believe it will be hard. Im sure you could get arround to render an image or two, but you wont be able to match the renders from your 3D app unless you:

- have a kick ass Renderman exporter (mayaman, maxman, Mtor)
- Learn to understand how RenderMan works
- Commit yourself to learning the stuff

RenderMan is very hard for those who have never coded anything or who dont understand what 3D programs do under the hood.

to sum up.. Yeah.. I believe its hard (to get to the level where a RenderMan renderer truly makes a differece). but once you learn renderman you will be SOOOOOOO excited and happy. The possibilities are endles.....SO MUCH POWER AT YOUR FINGERTIPS!!!!

I hope this didnt scare you

cheers

FxJeane

octopus77
05-24-2003, 10:12 PM
Well. I downloaded the windows installer, i exectuted it, all seem to be ok, but then how i start the program?
Just there is no icon, or none .exe file that works for me.
Does it work under XP?

LucentDreams
05-24-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Emberghost
Sorry but I am not firmiliar with 3rd party renderers, but my question is does Pixie work for and 3d program. I have cinema 4d r7 and was wondering if Pixie worked for that....thanks :)

There is a rib exporter being worked on For maxon's cinema 4D, not all features yet, but looking promising. I think it may be for R8 only though :/

JA-forreal
05-24-2003, 10:14 PM
fxjeane, thanks for adding the hard truthful details. Lets face it, 3d art is not that easy, due to the complexity of the hardware and software code that are needed to help us artist mimic real life.

But that fact never stops a diligent 3d artist from trying to make the best renders they can.

Great artworks take greater effort.

octopus77
05-24-2003, 10:15 PM
fxjeane: im allready scared

Array
05-24-2003, 10:28 PM
hmmm...ok im not getting good results in pixie from my shader.

the SL file can be found here:

http://students.depaul.edu/~dshklyar/displacement/pixiedisp.sl

it renders fine in 3delight:

http://students.depaul.edu/~dshklyar/displacement/3delight_disp.jpg

but not so in pixie:

http://students.depaul.edu/~dshklyar/displacement/pixie_disp.jpg

I'm going to email the author to see if it's Pixie or if im doing something wrong.

Theta-Dot
05-24-2003, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by fxjeane
to sum up.. Yeah.. I believe its hard (to get to the level where a RenderMan renderer truly makes a differece). but once you learn renderman you will be SOOOOOOO excited and happy. The possibilities are endles.....

Well I am kinda bored right now :) I wouldn't mind learning... I would give it a go but I don't think I'd want to do it alone. I need a mentor or something! When I try and do things by myself I get lost and then end up crashing. I am VERY interested to know what goes on "underneath the hood" of a 3d app, it fascinates me and I'd read anything about it just for fun. I just don't know where to look to learn about stuff like that. *sigh... :rolleyes:

=ThetaDot=

Array
05-25-2003, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by Theta-Dot
Well I am kinda bored right now :) I wouldn't mind learning... I would give it a go but I don't think I'd want to do it alone. I need a mentor or something! When I try and do things by myself I get lost and then end up crashing. I am VERY interested to know what goes on "underneath the hood" of a 3d app, it fascinates me and I'd read anything about it just for fun. I just don't know where to look to learn about stuff like that. *sigh... :rolleyes:

=ThetaDot=

you should browse around some university course sites.

this is the course that I am currently attending:

http://mcdonald.cs.depaul.edu/GPH539/

it has notes and exercises to help you get going.

iBlue
05-25-2003, 12:12 AM
W00t!!!!1

/me plays with new toy :bounce:

Cman
05-25-2003, 01:01 AM
(subscribtion to thread)

ambassador
05-25-2003, 01:26 AM
are there any good books to learn rendermans language, I havent seen any with the other 3d software books.:shrug: I am not sure where to start for that type of thing:lightbulb

Array
05-25-2003, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by ambassador
are there any good books to learn rendermans language, I havent seen any with the other 3d software books.:shrug: I am not sure where to start for that type of thing:lightbulb

"Advanced Renderman", "The Renderman Companion", and "Texturing and Modelling: a Procedural Approach" are the books which are pretty much used by everyone.

Array
05-25-2003, 01:39 AM
Succes!! :buttrock:

The Pixie author replied to my question in a very timely fashion, and suggested a workaround to the displacement problem which I was having.

here is the updated SL file:

http://students.depaul.edu/~dshklyar/displacement/pixiedisp_fixed.sl

here is the pixie render of my FIXED displacement shader:

http://students.depaul.edu/~dshklyar/displacement/pixie_disp_fixed.jpg

Just as a note, the Pixie render time was substantially longer than the 3delight render. Hopefully this will be adressed soon as well.

malducin
05-25-2003, 01:44 AM
Yes there are 3 main books to learn Renderman. The first is the classic RenderMan Companion by Steve Upstill. It's a bit old and certainly not for those who have never coded. It does give great insight into the RenderMan way of doing things. On the minus side it doesn't describe the RIB interface only the C API but on the plus it has a good section on the shading language.

The second the Advanced RenderMan book by Tony Apodaca and Larry Gritz. You guessed it mor advanced stuff but in certain way more readable than the Companion.

Last but not least is Essential RenderMan Fast by Ian Stephenson which is a very gentle intro for newcomers.

Also check the SIGGRAPH course notes at the RenderMan Repository in particular 92 and 95:

RenderMan SIGGRAPH course notes (http://www.renderman.org/RMR/Books/index.html#Sig)

It also seems version 1.1.2 of Pixie is out.

Taos
05-25-2003, 01:49 AM
Yeah, Okan is a great guy. I've exchanged emails with him on a few occasions.

Be warned using Pixie for your rendering, however. It doesn't have a rib writing linkage, so Liquid won't work with it. Only a warning for those who know what I'm talking about. It's .rib parser and c linkage are excellent (except for a lack of RiCurves) though.

Just no writing out to .rib from the c-linkage yet. I thought I might give him a hand with that, but I have enough on my plate these days.

Signal2Noise
05-25-2003, 02:03 AM
Apologies for the dumb-ass question but...

Sourceforge has the files set up in a weird way. Am I to download all 5 of the Pixie files listed or just the one for Windows? There's 2 zip's, 2 tgz's, and one exe file. Can someone steer me towards the light in what to do?:shrug:

TIA...

Array
05-25-2003, 02:04 AM
just the windows exe installer

Signal2Noise
05-25-2003, 02:06 AM
Thanks, Array!:thumbsup:

That was a seriously fast response. Get back to rendering, dude!:wip:


;)

KayosIII
05-25-2003, 02:56 AM
Oh look another reminder to get back to work on Ribbit.....

FloydBishop
05-25-2003, 04:05 AM
Very nice. I was particularly impressed with the look of the explosions in the gallery... not so much for the firey parts, but for the black bits of burnt matter that were lefts behind as the large flumes of flame dissipated.

This looks to be a pretty powerful render option.

:buttrock:

cutepixie
05-25-2003, 08:55 AM
i think i just like the fact that its called Pixie :bounce:

liQu1d
05-25-2003, 12:07 PM
i love it :buttrock:

fr3drik
05-25-2003, 01:21 PM
I'm quite the newbie on advanced rendering such as Renderman/Pixie/3Delight... And I was wondering what the major differences are between Pixie and 3Delight...

Also, will Maya's built-in RIB exporter do, or will there be a significant difference using Mayaman?

Thanks. :)

Maya Ayanami
05-25-2003, 08:14 PM
sorry if this has allready been asked but is pixie better than Mental Ray. and does it have some sort of sss abilities

Lyr
05-25-2003, 08:41 PM
Been experimenting a bit with maya's native RIB exporter and it appears to be working with pixie just fine. However the RIB exporter is still very limited and you will need to pick up some of the slack.

Joviex
05-25-2003, 09:06 PM
Anyone know if they/this program is going to get cracked in the head like Entrophy/BMRT? I would thik something that is even MORE compatible with PRM, would make pixar call infringment again, no?

I hope not, cause it looks excellent.

Array
05-25-2003, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by fr3drik
I'm quite the newbie on advanced rendering such as Renderman/Pixie/3Delight... And I was wondering what the major differences are between Pixie and 3Delight...

Also, will Maya's built-in RIB exporter do, or will there be a significant difference using Mayaman?

Thanks. :)

The major differances between 3delight and Pixie are in that Pixie implements some more advanced features such as photon mapping and irradiance caching, which are not available in 3delight.

Array
05-25-2003, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Maya Ayanami
sorry if this has allready been asked but is pixie better than Mental Ray. and does it have some sort of sss abilities

It depends on your definition of "better". It's free if that counts as being better :beer:

Also, it does support 3S. it even comes with a simple 3S shader so you dont have to write your own from scratch. here's an example of 3S in Pixie:

http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~okan/Pixie/gallery/ex4_beauty.jpg

Array
05-25-2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by amorano
Anyone know if they/this program is going to get cracked in the head like Entrophy/BMRT? I would thik something that is even MORE compatible with PRM, would make pixar call infringment again, no?

I hope not, cause it looks excellent.

Not very likely. The whole fallout between Pixar and Entropy was very complex in nature, and it left a LOT of people in a state of anger/dissapointment. The biggest problem Pixar had with Entropy was that the people who made Entropy used to work at Pixar. This isnt the case with Pixie.

katon
05-25-2003, 10:30 PM
this looks cool, i have never heard of this before, i am definently going to check it out.

KayosIII
05-26-2003, 02:31 AM
I haven't tried pixie since version 1.01.... I generally found it quite a bit slower than 3Delight... and at that stage it seemed to have a few more bugs (both currently are a little bit buggy)...

Maya Ayanami
05-26-2003, 03:37 AM
Thank you Array. and being that it is free is an absolute plus.
and thanks for that sss sample. looks nice.

I was wondering if I can incorporate pixie's sss shader nicely into things that I do in maya or is it really difficult.

Lyr
05-26-2003, 03:57 AM
If you consider opening a rib in notepad and assigning shaders manually hard, then yes it is hard. But ya gotta do that anyway to render out subd's with maya's crappy rib exporter.

malducin
05-26-2003, 07:09 AM
There is still a possibility that Pixar could do harm to Pixie or the other renderer makers, considering they hold quite a few patents, including stochastic sampling, semi-sharp creases in subdivision surfaces and something about deep shadow maps. That was the original Pixar suit:

http://renderman.org/RMR/OtherLinks/blackSIGGRAPH.html

As far as Maya for SSS I think you are probably better of using Mental Ray, unless you have something like RAT and PRMan to help. Then again Christophe Hery wil explain this Summer how they did it for Dobby and hopefully there will be code samples. ILM used a hybrid approach using both MR and PRMan for SSS.

BTW the regular Maya RIB exporter is not very good, quite limited, uses instances and is advised against in the RenderMan community.

FBMachine
05-26-2003, 07:22 AM
Don't bother using the built in rib exporter in Maya, just use Liquid:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/liquidmaya
Look for the Liquid Aqsis build so you don't have to compile it yourself...
I haven't done much with it yet myself, but it's what WETA Digital uses to go from Maya to PRman, so I'd assume it's quite capable. :)
Dan
[EDIT] I should point out I haven't tried it with Pixie yet, but it should work just fine...

Array
05-26-2003, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by malducin
There is still a possibility that Pixar could do harm to Pixie or the other renderer makers, considering they hold quite a few patents, including stochastic sampling, semi-sharp creases in subdivision surfaces and something about deep shadow maps. That was the original Pixar suit:

http://renderman.org/RMR/OtherLinks/blackSIGGRAPH.html

As far as Maya for SSS I think you are probably better of using Mental Ray, unless you have something like RAT and PRMan to help. Then again Christophe Hery wil explain this Summer how they did it for Dobby and hopefully there will be code samples. ILM used a hybrid approach using both MR and PRMan for SSS.

BTW the regular Maya RIB exporter is not very good, quite limited, uses instances and is advised against in the RenderMan community.

argh, everytime i read that link, it pisses me off.

Lyr
05-26-2003, 08:16 AM
Originally posted by FBMachine
Don't bother using the built in rib exporter in Maya, just use Liquid:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/liquidmaya
Look for the Liquid Aqsis build so you don't have to compile it yourself...
I haven't done much with it yet myself, but it's what WETA Digital uses to go from Maya to PRman, so I'd assume it's quite capable. :)
Dan
[EDIT] I should point out I haven't tried it with Pixie yet, but it should work just fine...

Liquid aqsis does not work with pixie (have tried it). Also liquid does not yet support maya 5, don't think MtoR has been compiled for maya 5 yet either. so you are stuck with maya's native rib exporter.

omega-0nd
05-26-2003, 11:48 AM
mmm i didn't understand...al those progs works only with procedural shaders? and all color maps, etc? they don't use them?

Titus
05-26-2003, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by malducin
There is still a possibility that Pixar could do harm to Pixie or the other renderer makers, considering they hold quite a few patents, including stochastic sampling, semi-sharp creases in subdivision surfaces and something about deep shadow maps.


Pixar's position is very clear now. Independant of the patents above, they hold rights over the RenderMan Interface Specification. Pixar stopped to give licenses to other RenderMan renders in 1997, basically if you write you own renderer after that you can be in big troubles (remark in the word can) .

malducin
05-26-2003, 04:01 PM
Array, you, me and a whole bunch of people surely feel that way.

About Liquid, the problem might also be that there is no client library for Pixie, though I guess one could be compiled.

About, color maps, of course RenderMan compliant renderers can use them. You just have to write a shader that uses them (via the texture call). There are many prebuilt shaders available, either on the RenderMan Repository or the Advanced RenderMan book (the supertexmap shader I believe).

The only bit ambiguos part about the spec is that Pixar still has made it available and open. Probably now they'll have to do like Mesa did with respect to OpenGL: you cannot call youself a RenderMan compliant renderer (that would require a license), but something like a RenderMan like or compatible rendeer or some such thing.

Titus
05-26-2003, 06:14 PM
Yes, there must exists a wise turn around like Mesa/OpenGL but I think no one can survive the fury of Steve Jobs.

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