3ds Max 6 Beta Testing?

[FabioMSilva]

hopefully they´ll post the official comment on www.discreet.com soon. Until then this is only a speculation

[halo]

or they could just rush the build out with bugs...

previous betas had sufaced before about 2 months before release....so its still on track...perhaps if the romours are true

[dmak]

Hopefully they'll release it soon! I can't wait for improved alot of things. :) I love max, but the lack of mental ray is killing me! My friend and I continually do little render effect battles(radiosity/gi/transparent shaders/etc.) and he keeps beating me with maya and mental ray.. I hate losing. I never hear the end of it.

Discreet better crush maya with it's next release and I hope it's soon.

Wishfully,
dmak

[xynaria]

Originally posted by halo
or they could just rush the build out with bugs...



Max.. bugs??!!!! surely some mistake ROFPML.:p

[thinKer3D]

dmak,

3ds max 5 along with FinalRender and/or Brazil renderers effectively eliminate maya's rendering competition by lightyears (that means it also eliminates the need for MentalRay [At least for me])! Not even RenderMan from Pixar can touch 3ds max with FinalRender/Brazil combinations.

In addition, out of the box without proprietary code, 3ds max 5 built-in render is by far the best I have seen. Most competing packages have horrible eye-watering built-in renderers and that's why many studios write massive proprietary code to achive what they need or use 3rd party relacement renders with or without proprietary code.

[visualboo]

dmak: Thats just silly man. I think your talking more about the artist than the software. :beer:

thinKer3D: c'mon now man.
Not even RenderMan from Pixar can touch 3ds max with FinalRender/Brazil combinations.
I'm going back to sleep.

[dmak]

I've only played with Brazil a couple of times, granted it was the public beta, unfortunately it crashed on me one to many times. It looks like a great renderer, and I'm sure it is. Never touched Final Render, though it also looks nice. The built in scan-line renderer is a nice renderer, and it does beat most standard animation package renderers. Unfortunately thats besides the point.

The point is that Maya COMES with MentalRay. When I pay $3500 for 3Ds and maya is sold for $2000, I want to have a better package than maya all around. Don't get me wrong, I love Max, always will and always have. As far as I have seen, max and maya are comparable on many fronts. In fact, so far I haven't seen too many differences. The three major things that maya seems to have evolved a little better are the following:

- Materials, maya's material connection capabilities are extremely robust. Maxs' material editor is not nearly as extensive.

- Particles, particle flow should take care of this, but currently max 5 particles haven't shown me that they are comparable.

- Renderer, max 5 radiosity and light tracer renderers are slower and have less features than MentalRay, now standard with Maya.

So you see, my point about the renderer is that maya comes with MentalRay out of the box. I shouldn't have to purchase a second renderer. Though I have my suspicions that Max 6 will come with MentalRay as well.

Anyways, long live 3DStudio Max, and down with other packages. :) As I said earlier, I hope Max 6 comes out soon and blows away Maya.

Dmak

[dmak]

Boo,

I'm not sure you got my point. My battles with my friend have revolved around technical capabilities of the software, at least the latest battles we've had. That being said, MentalRay is what helped him win.

Lets not all just sit around the forum and blindly say that max is better than all other software. It's great, but yes my friends it also has weak points.. accept it!

Dmak

[holosynthetic]

don't expect mental ray with 3ds max anytime soon, asked discreet back in march if mental ray will come with max cause it comes with maya, they responded that maya has a crappy renderer and max doesn't, so maya needed it...and discreet has no intentions of giving mental ray away for free

[xynaria]

When Max 4 was released it looked like they might be taking the bull by the horns, editable poly, reworked IK etc and promised well for the future. Following that in R5 with carrying through editable poly compatibility with a reworked nurbs would have been at least promising. Some might say that cobbling in the Viz renderer wasn't. Let's hope 6 is 'back on track' and not 'off the rails' :)

[BartW]

Originally posted by xynaria
Max.. bugs??!!!! surely some mistake ROFPML.:p

Yeah, like the old saying goes: "Those aren't bugs, they're features!" :scream:

[dmak]

The only thing I can say about the bugs is that max is handling saving copies of your scene alot better these days, especially during a crash.

As for MentalRay, it's odd that every object in max 5 has MentalRay properties (hit properties, and see for yourself). So that gives me hope that they'll include it. When Max 5 came out, I got the impression, from people and the software itself, that discreet is trying to position itself to be more appealing to the film industry as well as game industry. If thats true, they'll need a more improved radiosity renderer. We'll see.

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by dmak
The only thing I can say about the bugs is that max is handling saving copies of your scene alot better these days, especially during a crash.

As for MentalRay, it's odd that every object in max 5 has MentalRay properties (hit properties, and see for yourself). So that gives me hope that they'll include it. When Max 5 came out, I got the impression, from people and the software itself, that discreet is trying to position itself to be more appealing to the film industry as well as game industry. If thats true, they'll need a more improved radiosity renderer. We'll see.


radiosity for film? LOL :applause:

[dmak]

Originally posted by ThirdEye_01
radiosity for film? LOL :applause:

Am I wrong? Would radiosity not be a good use for realistic lighting solutions? Maybe I missed out on something somewhere.

[Russo]

I would choose Final Render Stage 1 to get into Max standard instead of Mental Ray :xtreme: :deal:

[Pyro2301]

Originally posted by ThirdEye_01
radiosity for film? LOL :applause:


What's so funny about that? As machines and rendering engines become faster, radiosity is more of a realistic option for film.

-Victor

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by Pyro2301
What's so funny about that? As machines and rendering engines become faster, radiosity is more of a realistic option for film.

-Victor


Do you really think the key to enter the film industry is a good GI engine? Renderman is the standard renderer for films and it (except the latest release) doesn't even have raytracing or GI.

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by Russo
I would choose Final Render Stage 1 to get into Max standard instead of Mental Ray :xtreme: :deal:


I hope it will be out someday... It was announced a year ago and it's not out yet :rolleyes:

[dmak]

ThirdEye: If you review mentalimages motion picture section (link (http://www.mentalimages.com/4_1_motion_pictures/index.html)), you'll see the film industry is already using radiosity. The film industry is constantly looking for more advanced rendering solutions to achieve realism. I think you're mistaken if you believe that radiosity solutions will not be used more and more frequently in film and other pre-rendered animation. The fact that so many radiosity renderers are coming out is a clear sign that there is plenty of deman for it.

Now back to more important topics, Final Render Stage 1 looks awsome! As for wishing to include MentalRay, I think I should rephrase that, I hope they include a better rendering solution than the current radiosity/light tracer already in max.

[xynaria]

LOL According to Mental Images website Max has used Mental Matter since R4 to convert from/ to nurbs/sub D's which is kinda interesting.. anyone seen it.? :D

"mental matter allows to build NURBS and Hierarchical Subdivision Surface (HSDS) modelers and for a unique next generation approach to modeling in general that is based on hierarchical subdivision surfaces. For example, it will allow to create arbitrarily complex geometrical objects consisting of one single surface (in contrast to current CAD type modelers) for styling and 3D animation purposes in a highly interactive fashion utilizing a new interface paradigm. It also allows to convert them back to NURBS and vice versa.

mental matter Version 1.0 was completed in February 1999. The software is integrated into 3ds max R4.0 and is shipping commercially since January 2001."

[dmak]

Interesting... If you look on the cebas site for Final Render distributors, you can find Stage 1 upgrade available for purchase. I assume that means it's out already?

[xynaria]

LOL part 2.. Stage 1 has been available to purchase for sometime but was last seen disappearing with other urban myths off to hollywood to try and convince Bryan Singer that he really must make a movie out of them . :p

[censored]

mentalray coming with max6 is doubtful, considering discreet recently incorporated fR stage-1 into their DCP program.

[PiXeL_MoNKeY]

actually MR 3.2 should be out sometime soon: "mental ray 3.2 for 3ds max (and 3ds viz) will be available from Autodesk/discreet in the first half of 2003 on the Microsoft Windows NT/2000/XP platforms. " source http://www.mentalimages.com/2_1_2_configuarations/index.html

There is no fact to this, but it is rumored that MR 3.2 may be released free to subscription user

[robioto]

I'd rather see Brazil integrated into Max if they're going to implement a 3rd party solution. Brazil is very cool all around and the new tech demos on the Splutterfish web site look promising. The skin shader is especially creepy.

-r

[holosynthetic]

they better not integrate brazil into max...cause if they ever did i would expect a discount for max users that already own brazil for the next upgrade..

[mouj]

Indeed ! But that's unlikely to happen, as i think it's unlikely that they'll include fR, no matter what stage it's supposedly on : )

I don't know if the film industry is looking for gi / radiosity that much, my guess would be anyhow they're looking for quality within deadlines, may it be gi or anything.
Great renders can be achieved with Max's scanline, if you really need more than what it can do, then i guess turn on to another renderer, whatever suits your needs.

It sure would be cool to have Mr or Brazil or fR included in Max, but then again, will the 'average' Max user or content-oriented user (game modelers for instance) really benefit from that ? Same deal with Particle Flow, it's very cool and powerfull tool, and fun to toy with, but not every Max user needs it; it's way cool it's being included in Max, but particles in Max we being used before !

Now i still wish that the scanline would be a little faster, but i guess i also could get myself a faster comp :p

mouj

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by dmak
ThirdEye: If you review mentalimages motion picture section (link (http://www.mentalimages.com/4_1_motion_pictures/index.html)), you'll see the film industry is already using radiosity. The film industry is constantly looking for more advanced rendering solutions to achieve realism. I think you're mistaken if you believe that radiosity solutions will not be used more and more frequently in film and other pre-rendered animation. The fact that so many radiosity renderers are coming out is a clear sign that there is plenty of deman for it.


That's true, but i'd never talk of a "need". Last thing that qualifies a renderer for film is GI or radiosity imho.

About Brazil, fR and possible integrated solutions... i don't think discreet will never integrate one of those for two reasons:

1) they don't want to make Splutterfish (or Cebas, or Mental Images) happy and the others unhappy

2) they've started developing their own GI renderer so i think they'll keep working on that.

:wavey:

[PiXeL_MoNKeY]

I doubt you will see any renderer besides MR as Discreet entered into a strategic partnership with mental images in 1999. source (http://www.mentalimages.com/1_1_news/news_texte/990415.html) You also have to remember if they do include MR it will probably be the same thing that Aliaswavefront has done where you get a single license free, however to network render you still have to pay $3000 per machine.

I doubt you would see fR included as that would hurt cebas cause they would never get any money back on it. And as it is Discreet will probably be getting money for every stage-1 license sold thanks to the DCP thing.

But who knows...only the individuals running these companies will know whats going on.

[dmak]

ThirdEye: I see your point, I as well meant my argument to simply be my opinion as I see things. I may be wrong, but based on my observations it just seems like the logical evolution of realistic rendering. Now whether a 3d package coming with a GI or Radiosity renderer will affect a film studios purchase of that software is something I'm not completely convinced of. Render Farms are usually based on a standalone renderer with robust networking capabilities and low overhead.

[Pyro2301]

Originally posted by ThirdEye_01
Do you really think the key to enter the film industry is a good GI engine?

I never said it was. :curious:


Renderman is the standard renderer for films and it (except the latest release) doesn't even have raytracing or GI.

REYES renders usually don't.

-Victor

[xynaria]

Given that there's more rendering solutions for Max than probably any other product... you might think that that is not the major problem Max suffers really. Many, (including some might say, Di$creet), see Maya as it's major competitor. A|W's strategy seems to have been to say.. now what possible reason could people have for not buying Maya and then responding to address that , the success of which some differ on opinion wise. As the years go by, the reasons for not buying max could almost said to have grown...perhaps addressing this is the direction it might be prudent to go.. Mental Ray or no. :)

[dmak]

Regarding the last comment, what would make you or anyone else out there buy Max over Maya, or any other software?

Just curious what people are considering when they select a package.

[SuperMax]

Originally posted by dmak
Regarding the last comment, what would make you or anyone else out there buy Max over Maya, or any other software?

Just curious what people are considering when they select a package.

Alias has done a great job advertising Maya. People associate Maya with Great Films. They see Lord of the Rings or Matrix or whatever movie and think WOW! Maya can do that!! I Want My Maya Now!

Its all in the advertising.

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by dmak
ThirdEye: I see your point, I as well meant my argument to simply be my opinion as I see things. I may be wrong, but based on my observations it just seems like the logical evolution of realistic rendering. Now whether a 3d package coming with a GI or Radiosity renderer will affect a film studios purchase of that software is something I'm not completely convinced of. Render Farms are usually based on a standalone renderer with robust networking capabilities and low overhead.


Ok, now we completely agree. GI will break the industry when:

1) the rendertimes will be reasonable.
2) there will be no flickering problem at all.

[Khepri]

Originally posted by ThirdEye_01
Do you really think the key to enter the film industry is a good GI engine? Renderman is the standard renderer for films and it (except the latest release) doesn't even have raytracing or GI.

actually Entropy did include raytracing and GI couple years back and BMRT did even way before that(was even used by Pixar to render some stuff in "a Bug's life" :)

better read up ;)

and remember renderman is a language/standard, not a renderer

[ThirdEye]

Originally posted by Khepri
actually Entropy did include raytracing and GI couple years back and BMRT did even way before that(was even used by Pixar to render some stuff in "a Bug's life" :)

better read up ;)

and remember renderman is a language/standard, not a renderer


I'm obviously talking about Pixar's Renderman, not about renderman-compliant renderers.

[halo]

i'm hearing romours from several sources about max beta testing mental ray 3 integration in max 5...

[chrom]

yes its true:buttrock:

still beta with integrated MR 3:)

[Jon_Pran]

Really? Then that's all of the big boys using it? Strange, esp. considering how much it costs alone.

I've heard that it does not support plugins like Real People, this true? Just wondering because that's an essential part of arch viz, which Max/Viz dominate.

Are there any advantages to Mental Ray over the other plugins (Final Render, Brazil, VRay)? Faster?

Just curious why they wouldn't pick one of those.

[Ulukai]

Ummm... Max 6.
I would like more stability.
A faster viewport (Doom 3 engine? :rolleyes: ) and bigger efficiency with "game" 3d cards.
Edge extrude in poly (mesh like).
Poly mode only without mesh.
Texporter like tool... no, it´s free and work fine
Cloth simulator... Simcloth! Free too.
Hair!! Shag-hair is ok but I would like to see other alternative.
The renderer: VRay :)
...
...
...

[BrandonD]

You can speculate all you want. Nothing is fact until Discreet officially announces it - something that over the last several years has usually meant at NAB or SIGGRAPH.

[Alex Morris]

Ermmmm.........what happened to beta testing for Max 6?
Is this a GI thread;)

My understanding is that most of the beta testing for max happens right through the development pipeline with the same people testing alphas as those later doing betas. Last I heard there were about 3 beta testers in the UK.........LOL as apposed to a couple of hundred in the States. Dunno what the situation is worldwide...:shrug:

Personally I gave up trying to get on that bandwagon after release 3.0 which was so buggy that it was really a beta anyway.

[Ryno]

Hey Ulukai,

You can already do Edge Extrusion for EPoly in Max 5 by Shift+Moving edges.

Texporter functionality built-in is definitely a must. Sure, Texporter is free and all, but when I teach people that already work in other packages, and explain to them that they need to hunt around for a plug-in to do this every-day-type-of-functionality, they roll their eyes as if to say "Well in Maya and XSI this is built in." It's the little things like this that keep them looking down their noses at Max.

[KiboOst]

Originally posted by Ryno
Hey Ulukai,

Texporter functionality built-in is definitely a must. Sure, Texporter is free and all, but when I teach people that already work in other packages, and explain to them that they need to hunt around for a plug-in to do this every-day-type-of-functionality, they roll their eyes as if to say "Well in Maya and XSI this is built in." It's the little things like this that keep them looking down their noses at Max.

Totally agree. And a textporter exporting unwrap would rocks !

Kib

[mouj]

as a side note, shiftdrag edge will clone the edge, working with Epoly, but only on Open Edges.

As for Texporter, i may be wrong but i think there is some feature in Max 5 that kind of works the same, well, at least works to achieve same result, but Texporter does it better : ).

mouj

[Bobo]

Originally posted by Alex Morris

My understanding is that most of the beta testing for max happens right through the development pipeline with the same people testing alphas as those later doing betas. Last I heard there were about 3 beta testers in the UK.........


These are, of course, rumors, right? :)

[Alex Morris]

Oops
Oh yes!:thumbsup:

Definitely just rumours........I've never actually met anyone who owned up to being a beta tester.............ever (gulp).:shame:

Do they actually beta test Max at all?;)

[visualboo]

haha :beer:

[Bobo]

Originally posted by Alex Morris
Oops
Oh yes!:thumbsup:

Definitely just rumours........I've never actually met anyone who owned up to being a beta tester.............ever (gulp).:shame:

Do they actually beta test Max at all?;)

AFAIK, the NDA people would have to sign to Beta test any software of this size would prohibit to even mention the fact of being a Beta tester...
The fact you have never met a living Beta tester can only mean most people take their NDAs seriously...

I have seen lots of wannabe Beta Testers claiming access to the Max Beta program on various forums. IMO it is just like with sex - people that talk much about it don't actually have it ;)

[Chris Thomas]

Some would even say success in getting on to the beta program and success in the bedchamber are often linked....

but this may be just be a, rumour....

;)

[Steve Green]

What, I'd have to sleep with the Product Manager at discreet to get on the beta team?

That's harsh... :)

- Steve

[Ryno]

Get a job at a company that has more than 50 seats of Max, call Discreet, and tell them that your company is trying to decide which software package they will be using in the future. Then ask if they have any beta programs. You'd be amazed what that would do.

Yes, beta testers do exist.

[dmak]

I've spoken with people at discreet about becoming a beta tester. Mostly they use people in the industry that they hand select. However, if you have a good demo reel and alot of experience with max, you have a good chance of becoming a beta tester from what I was told.

So if you want to try and get on the team, put your best work together and act as though you're applying for a job.

[baby]

I know it that's all...



I think those big "top secret things" are very very ridiculous...

we don't want U to know that we are making a new version...
but of course we want U to buy it when it's time...
it sounds only like a marketing strategy of annoucement which doesn't respect the client/partner...


anyway plizzz...I would really like :

- an edit poly modifier (asked for it when I beta test max 5)
- a displace space warp (you create a plane/space warp, you had to this a texture, animated or not, a fallof and a strengh, then you bind it to object, with two modes, straight or from normals...would be very cool for boat waves for example, road tracks, foot prints, bullet impacts ect ect )


nb : I'm not beta testing max6 of course !!!

[thorn3d]

Originally posted by thinKer3D
dmak,

In addition, out of the box without proprietary code, 3ds max 5 built-in render is by far the best I have seen.

You haven't seen many built-in renderers then... :rolleyes:

Max's built-in rendering is incredibly dated, as is the lighting system. I love many other parts of the application, but the scanline renderer isn't one of them.

thorn

[Arxangel]

Perhaps if you want a bug free software, we should have Adobe make it for Discreet!


ahahaha


Arxangel

[mouj]

Are you joking you do you seriously think Adobe's softwares are bug-free ? If so, i'm amazed : )

mouj

[zarkos]

Wait for a official release of Max 6 and then your questions will be answered. Be patient.

[Murf_Miser]

why, speculation is half the fun :p

[dmak]

I speculate, Max 6 will come out sometime this year. Thank you .. Thank you...


dmak
dmak@3dimplant.com
www.3dimplant.com

[LuKa]

here are some underground news:
Originally Posted by Unknown


the customer support guy for discreet came today.

Apparently, he wasn't suppose to tell anything before next week about max 6, but he did :

[ removed ] show a little respect and just wait for the real thing to be released

[halo]

theres nothing like a moderator to spoil the fun...

[Jon_Pran]

Why would someone delete that? It's all rumors, for the most part.

The big news, imo, is Mental Ray integration.

That won't do much good, though, because most of us need to plop the cash down for GI rendering before next year.

Figures. But that's one of the things that was deleted.

[LuKa]

I appologize..:blush:

[thorn3d]

No need to apologize, Luka. The moderation of that post was appaling and disgusting.

I won't be suprised if this post will be deleted as well, but it's pathetic to see jack-booted sycophants running around making sure they keep discreet happy.

(edit: Having just read the bios of the moderators, it's no suprise that it was killed. I suppose discreet made it a priority to get moderator status just for this reason.)

thorn

[xynaria]

A half decent or anywhere near mod would have attempted to justify that edit....... but it would probably have been laughable.
The mods on here in the main are truly bad.. as in not good. :(

[Steve Green]

I just read the bios...

Discreet have a PR department?

You wouldn't know it from their past performance.

- Steve

[magicm]

No need to apologize, Luka. The moderation of that post was appaling and disgusting.

I won't be suprised if this post will be deleted as well, but it's pathetic to see jack-booted sycophants running around making sure they keep discreet happy.
thorn

There are more elegant ways of starting a discussion. I don't understand why you're calling me a "jack-booted sycophant" just because of this post.... don't see any reason why I should go in on this any further.

(edit: Having just read the bios of the moderators, it's no suprise that it was killed. I suppose discreet made it a priority to get moderator status just for this reason.)

The moderators on this board are mostly picked by existing moderators and the kind of job someone has does not have anything to do with that. Most of the mods in here are just people who have a job in cg or even as a hobby. Kevin (the only mod from discreet here) doesn't use his 'discreet powers' to moderate anything that's about 3dsmax or discreet. Also, his last post is from may, so it can't be him you're talking about...

Maybe I didn't need to delete that post, but there's always the grown-up way to question that

The mods on here in the main are truly bad.. as in not good. :(

xynaria

? :shrug: I'm not sure why you're saying this. I don't think I'm speaking for myself when I say that the moderators on this board are doing their best to make/keep cgtalk a good and professional forum. If you think something is not handled right, don't hessitate to bring it to our attention. I'm sure every mod here is open for suggestions as long as your arguments are discussionable. "mods on here in the main are truly bad" just doesn't cut the cake.


- Martijn

[dmak]

Good going people.. way to turn a discussion, which I think ended long ago, into a moderator bashing thread. The moderators on cgtalk are some of the best I've ever seen.

The post in question most likely is in breech of some confidentiality clause or other corporate mumbo jumbo. This post was already removed from a thread on another forum based site. I suggest you all keep your finger pointing and moderator bashing to a minimum around here and stick to something more interesting.

Discreet will announce thier news in whatever manner they want to announce thier news. As a loyal user of Max, I would expect people to understand and respect that.

dmak
www.3dimplant.com

[Dave Black]

I for one am not going to tollerate this.

The mods on CGTalk are amongst the best I've every known. Discreet is fully in their rights to request that this information be removed. CGTalk is a privately owned forum, and offers it's services for free. They are therefore allowed to moderate the way they see fit. This is not your little playground. I'll make sure to remember your usernames, so that I can avoid you in the future.

Good day.

-3DZ

:annoyed:

[peachstapler]

I am going to have to agree that the moderators on CGTalk are some of the best for any 3D site out there. Try going to any other 3D site and getting your important questions answered without being swamped by warez posts that drown your important thread right to the bottom of the page.

Thanks again to the mods.
-peachstapler

[baby]

the erasing of this post was not right.

it's a forum to exchanger info.


the only one who should be ashamed is the guy from discreet who gave the info.

then if he didn't respect his nda it's his problem, not ours...


we should be able to speak as freely of this info as we would speak about an underground info about the next pixar... :)



again : this top secret stuff is ridiculous...
and I'm talking as one of the biggest max licence buyer !!!! :annoyed:

[xynaria]

Though of course the point is arguable, the editing of any posts without explanation is certainly not in my eyes good moderation. The only way you stop rumours is to counter them, not to try and pretend they don't exist. It is inevitable that rumours are going to exist about anything that is anticipated, whether it is a software release or anything else. They are rumours and that is all they are till an official announcement is made. To try and censor those rumours seems somewhat over reactive and self defeating to me.
If Discreet did indeed ask the quote to be removed, fine, (well-ish) but why not leave a note of explanation so as not to engender any ill feeling. Because some people visiting here find the moderation in cases inapt and some don't doesn't neccessarily mean either is totally right but certainly means that possibly there are better ways of handling some scenarios.. Mr Zealot, .. everyone is entilitled to their opinion. :)

[dmak]

hey look, the eiffel tower is on fire.

[mouj]

I agree to the fact that everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, and somewhat agree to the fact that if someone has broken his/her nda, then we are not responisble for it.

Then again, this forum just not might be the right place to discuss such matters and that's all. As already stated this is a privately owned forum, it has its own rules to which we should abide, as with any other forums, and mods are here to see that everyone does just that.
I don't see a point in bashing mods around, specially when they are doing a good job. And especially when bashing mods has nothing to do with the current topic, or nothing to do with the fact that posts get edited : they get edited because they hold something they should not, period. I'm no mod, but if these are the rules here, then be it.

mouj

[Dave Black]

CGtalk's general policy on this sort of thing, and I'm speaking only from previous incidences, has been to remove content when the mods are directly contacted with a request from the content's originator(s) to remove it. You can see this as a recurring theme within the "CG News" and "General Discussion" section of the site.

To address what has been said regarding my post, I'd like to remind everyone that while each individual is entitled to their opinion, that does not free the individual of their responsibility and repercussions of said opinion. I'd like to direct you to the "policy" link at the top of this page.

And to quote:

"Because CG Talk is a computer graphics related community, and in the interests of keeping potentially offensive topics away from the forum, the Administrators and Moderators of these forums do not tolerate posts that contain any of the following subjects or elements:

...

"- Posts that are potentially in breach of any NDA Agreements
This includes screenshots or any unlawfully acquired knowledge regarding beta versions of software that are not available to the general public. Even if you are not the one who signed the agreement, you are still not permitted to post such matter. "

It's in the rules, guys. Your really need to take a few minutes to read them.

-3DZ

:D

[xynaria]

AFAIK, the post quoted wasn't in effect a breach of an NDA but a purported first hand decription of a demonstration... now I know that holds itself up as liable to cause arguement as to whether that truly qualifies within the stated rules, there are ways of handling it that are less likely to cause inflamation.. including..'this post has been edited at the request of the software vendor' thus throwing the onus back on them rather than the moderator. to my mind the whole thing borders on farce anyways.
On a wider note I do find some of the moderation on here ok, but some ill considered, egocentric, patronising, and often needlessly heavy handed.... ok that is only my opinion and if it doesn't ring true for anyone else then obviously it has no weight and can be easily discarded as the ravings of a mad person, on the other hand if it does have any weight then perhaps it's something to be considered. :)

[magicm]

....there are ways of handling it that are less likely to cause inflamation.. including..'this post has been edited at the request of the software vendor' thus throwing the onus back on them rather than the moderator...

In the first place, I really don't understand all the trouble about this issue... but yes, I was asked to remove the post and I thought it was appropriate to do so. I don't actually take a day off from the office to think about how to edit a post and leave a politically correct message. Maybe I should've put it differently, maybe not... But to get all heated up because of this thing is truly beyond my comprehension.

[halo]

anyway all done and dusted...thought you may like to know that i found this on the web looking for an update...

this would be one of those posts that are not allowed, links to splashpages, interface pics features lists and the like.
eventho i suspect it's a prank.

cheers, Equinoxx

[baby]

hahaha...

like the wine ?!? older = better

clever.

[thorn3d]

I would like to offer an apology to Martijn.

While I don't agree with the deletion of the post, I understand his reasons for deleting as well as the forum rules which support his decision.

Though my language was incredibly harsh, it *truly* was not my intention to start a firestorm in his direction. I've not had a good week (and it's only tuesday), and because I'm unable to vent my anger at the people in my own company - I took it on Martijn.

Again, I apologize for my attacks on you.

thorn

[magicm]

thorn,

I didn't even know what those words meant until I asked an american friend.. but yes, they were pretty harsh...
I'm glad you're not affraid of admitting your mistake, and took a little time to explain it.

Apologies accepted
:thumbsup:

- Martijn

[TOMMY 3D FREAK]

Hi guy's,

if I'm not mistaking, the last three pages have been stuffed by the question as to wether the thread deletion was appropriate or not. First of all I think moderators must be able to delete threads if they discredit companies in any way. They (IMO) however must be cautious with the power given to them, and be straight when they exercise this power.

I think it is a pitty to see so much time get lost over such a little thing. And it is totally besides the point since this was a thread about the possible beta testing of discreets new release of 3d studio max. Let's keep it to that, and focus on the issue at hand.

I'm very curious what discreet is going to tell us at siggraph though. Personally I love MAX, and use it all the time. And in stead of overloading it with third party software they should first optimize their own software. Not that the software's bad, I think it's prety good actually. I think a new material editor, better schematic view, and caustics implementation would really make it high-end. Aquiring third party software insinuates the lack of quality of their own. Which is not the case.

B.T.W. Final Render has a new feature implemented in stage 1 that is called Hyper GI, optimized GI for animation

That's all for now!!!!!!

[pff]

wow. some stirred up emotions. GOOD. shows people are really really really comitted to 3ds and it´s community. whatever opinion one might have.

instead let´s hope apple buys alias so we can enjoy an even BIGGER community with even MORE opinions :applause:

pff

[dmak]

Tommy, thanks for getting us back on topic!

Not really sure why Apple buying Alias would change much in the way of our community, wouldn't mind hearing more on that thought pff.

As to max integrating more 3d technology, I've noticed that to be the trend with max. From R1 to R5 you can see that max has been integrating more and more of the third party tools that have helped make max as powerful as it is. I would never want to see the open SDK for max dissapear as it has been proven that the programmers out there often find ways to make tools that the big vendors didn't think about which improve our workflow. Surface tools is a good example.

I find it hard to believe that max won't be integrating mental ray, Discreet is giving a class on rendering out of max with mental ray at siggraph. Along with all the crazy rumors flying around :). Which should solve your caustics needs. I also wouldn't mind seeing the addition of texporter and a decent volume rendering solution similar to afterburn.

Finally the material editor is an issue I would also like to see approached. There is a plugin out there called treematograph which allows you to view your materials in a tree/node format much like maya. Max could use something similar, it's so much easier to see what your doing and have done with that layout.

dan
dmak@3dimplant.com
www.3dimplant.com

[Dave Black]

Dmak, I could'nt agree more with everything you've said.

My other big request is for the standard modeling functions to be rewritten. We need:

1. An Editable Poly Modifier
2. Working NURBS implementation
3. Revised Booleans
4. Better displacement, ie, micro-triangle Displacement utilizing normal mapping for undercutting.

Those to me are desperatly needed.

-3DZ

:D

[holosynthetic]

if they change the material editor i hope its not drastic, cause i like the way it is now..at least make it simple like how darktree can put together a shader

[topmegacool]

I know about it because I used Max for many years now.
The company I work in, now use XSI. I can say ther are more bugs and problem in XSI than in Max... really.


I know Maya has also many bugs and problem.

So Max bugs is still a more or less actual fact but don't think your life will be better with other softs.

For me, the Brazil solution is excelent.

- TMC

[pff]

dmak

@@ Not really sure why Apple buying Alias would change much in @@ the way of our community, wouldn't mind hearing more on @@ that thought pff.

obviously, all mayians would resort to 3ds and no where else. as simple as that.

@@ Finally the material editor is an issue I would also like to see @@ approached. There is a plugin out there called
@@ treematograph which allows you to view your materials in
@@ a tree/node format much like maya. Max could use
@@ something similar, it's so much easier to see what
@@ your doing and have done with that layout.

Sure improvements to the schematic view will be nice. a completely node based architecture would also be nice, also with the material manager, but this won´t happend with 3ds as we know it with it´s current underlying architecture i am sure.

Just to add to the wishlist for 3ds and any eventual future 3ds based versions. no; any improvements in the modeling department isn´t a part of my list. modeling/texturing is such tiny small parts of the workload my animation projects. sure concepts models textures are nice and all been there done that, but nowadays it´s a question of getting stuff to move asap prefably yesterday.

Need performance increases with constraints, spline ik. improvements w the curve editor / dope sheet also rank pretty high as a decent NLA system, without having to resort to cs all the time. Could go on forever on things like Expand Objects Toggle and Expand Tracks Toggle improvements etc etc

A Mayian repeat last command would also save my wrists some. Also want decent Volumetrics integrated don´t care if it´s a 3:d party plug-in starting with an A or not either just as long as it´s included in the base package.

A hair/fur solution and lowered price in Europe would also be kewl. It´s 4000 Euros here + 25% VAT. Well the 25% VAT i don´t blaim discreet for. But don´t blaim people in Europe for shopping in Mayaland instead (2000 Euros +VAT).

Finally that utility panel with XSI and Maya on it would save my day.

pff

[dmak]

Interesting list pff, a few of which I didn't include that sound good. I as well agree a node based architecture is probably too much to ask for right now, but I wouldn't mind seeing something different in the way of the material editor. Thats not to say that you can't create some great things with it. Just wouldn't mind a more intuitive interface and some enhancements.

On the topic of Apple buying Alias, there's no chance, if that were to happen, that Alias (as it's now called) would stop producing a windows version of maya. I'm positive they have a sizeable pc user base which would make it extremely unreasonable to stop production for the pc.

dan
dmak@3dimplant.com
www.3dimplant.com

[xynaria]

Originally posted by pff
. It´s 4000 Euros here + 25% VAT. Well the 25% VAT i don´t blaim discreet for. But don´t blaim people in Europe for shopping in Mayaland instead (2000 Euros +VAT).



pff

Although they haven't always ..afaik, all the other companies now make their European prices comparable to their American counterparts.
Regarding R6 and the 'rumours that don't exist', I wouldn't myself expect to see a great deal of further development appear simply because if the next generation is around the corner (even if it doesn't exist) then they will be saving all the development for that so you might have a reason to buy it. Hence I doubt the nurbs, booleans, editable poly, material editor, or anything else will have been touched. Question of the day.. how many upgrades does it take to find a rendering solution? :)

[halo]

how many upgrades does it take to find a rendering solution?

Answer: always one more than the current release, just like proper nurbs toolset (nurbs are likely to die out before they fix them)

[pff]

-->
dmak:
On the topic of Apple buying Alias, there's no chance, if that were to happen, that Alias (as it's now called) would stop producing a windows version of maya. I'm positive they have a sizeable pc user base which would make it extremely unreasonable to stop production for the pc.
-->


Well. This was kinda ironical. To get 3ds a larger user base for free. However, the evil rumours are all there again. If it would have happened tho, i on the other hand, are pretty sure the windows version would have been wasted in a year or two.
Linux and OSX only versions same as Shake.


-->
xynaria:
Although they haven't always ..afaik, all the other companies now make their European prices comparable to their American counterparts.
-->

Sorry to say, the only deal currently available here is 500 Euros off Character Studio if you buy 3ds for 4000 Euros, OR, for about 4600 Euros, you could get 3ds, a days free training, and an Xbox (!). All excluding 25% VAT. I am not actually pushing a price cut that hard. But a uniform world wide price policy.... is it really too much to ask for?

pff

[xynaria]

Originally posted by pff
-->



Sorry to say, the only deal currently available here is 500 Euros off Character Studio if you buy 3ds for 4000 Euros, OR, for about 4600 Euros, you could get 3ds, a days free training, and an Xbox (!). All excluding 25% VAT. I am not actually pushing a price cut that hard. But a uniform world wide price policy.... is it really too much to ask for?

pff

My point was that Discreet/Max is the only company I am aware of that DOESN'T have a comparable world wide policy. A|W brought theirs into line when they reduced the price of Maya. Personally I don't think it's too much to ask for at all but then I think that the price is unjustifiable anyways and regardless of Maya's price cuts was always overpriced in regard to the competition..that just seems more noticeable now.

[Aearon]

here are some hard facts for a change;

http://www.cgnetworks.com/story.php?story_id=1433

ANIMATION
Discreet will announce a new product for the 3D sector on the opening day of SIGGRAPH. Discreet's core animation products 3ds max and character studio software for modeling, character animation, and rendering will be
demonstrated utilizing project work from high-profile games, design visualization, and film effects customers.

[halo]

well...i'm guessing that the much heralded release is something thats not going to live up to much or be unique in any way and this is just discreet trying to gain PR off max's expected release for another product

one things for certain, discreet are experts at stretching peoples patience...

[TOMMY 3D FREAK]

ANIMATION
Discreet will announce a new product for the 3D sector on the opening day of SIGGRAPH. Discreet's core animation products 3ds max and character studio software for modeling, character animation, and rendering will be
demonstrated utilizing project work from high-profile games, design visualization, and film effects customers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm sorry, maybee I'm a idiot, but is the qoute pointing to a completely new product or just an update of the old software?

And what would it be if it is a completely new program?

It all seems so vague to me...

:p

(but then again, I may be an idiot, lol haha :eek: )

[xynaria]

<<one things for certain, discreet are experts at stretching peoples patience...>>

......what..you mean like making a big announcement about making an even bigger announcement about a month before it's due and then throwing your toys out of the pram when rumours get generated......wouldn't that be considered slightly onatistic? :wip:

[stefkeb]

Originally posted by xynaria
My point was that Discreet/Max is the only company I am aware of that DOESN'T have a comparable world wide policy. A|W brought theirs into line when they reduced the price of Maya. Personally I don't think it's too much to ask for at all but then I think that the price is unjustifiable anyways and regardless of Maya's price cuts was always overpriced in regard to the competition..that just seems more noticeable now.

There are others...

I bought ArchiCAD (an Hungarian architectural CAD program). It costs about $6500 in Europe and about $4500 in the States.

And we pay 21% taxes on that $6500 as well. And the German version was even more expensive...

We pay $4250 for max5 standalone (+21% taxes).

---

And about 3ds max 6 beta testing... well rumours are rumours so everyone is guessing/hoping/inventing stuff.

We'll probably know more in a few days.

[Aearon]

we'll know more in 3 days to be exact...

[cristo]

quote:


In addition, out of the box without proprietary code, 3ds max 5 built-in render is by far the best I have seen. Most competing packages have horrible eye-watering built-in renderers and that's why many studios write massive proprietary code to achive what they need or use 3rd party relacement renders with or without proprietary code.



Well, I agree with the last part of that statement, but certainly not the first! The max renderer has always been the weakest part of the package and quite possibly what has held it back from its use in features. We had a trial of Brazil and the quality of the AA puts the scanline renderer in the shade. Unfortunately we had pre-ordered Final Render (a year ago!) and our boss was not into sliding over to Brazil so we’re stuck at the moment. (As a side note Cebas has been disgraceful in their treatment of customers with fRender and deserve to lose any custom they have).

So now we have rumours about Mental Ray built into Max 6, looks like the R&D team have given up developing the Max renderer and gone for the licensing option. This seems promising but the main issue is compatibility. We decided not to get MR and the communication plug-in because there were no guarantees it would be fully compatible with all aspects of Max. I read the forums and constantly see posts about some renderer or such not being compatible with various shaders or plug-ins etc. What would be nice is to have a decent renderer that works with everything (yeah right!) Brazil is pretty close, and seems more solid than the others but I hear it’s not fully integrated with Dreamscape and we will need it for our next gig, so what do you do?

This is why all the big guys have to write their own code, they have to! You never see posts from the guys at ILM bitching about some renderer or other!

I love using Max and in particular the workflow is pretty good (though I’m going to get up to speed on Maya this summer). The community is very supportive it’s very easy to get a script or plug-in that negates the need for having a big R&D department (especially for smaller outfits like us).

So for my penny’s worth, this is what Max need to up its profile:

A decent built in renderer, if its going to be MR then an open SDK so we don’t have to worry about silly compatibility issues.

A proper shader network, Max’s is easy to use, but we need more flexibility to wire shaders and write custom shaders, maybe MR will let us write Renderman type shaders.

Proper displacement.

A decent particle system (though I’ve heard PFlow is supposed to be good – hope it’s built in for Max 6!)

Fully comprehensive Render Elements output for ALL renderers, especially if its going to be Mental Ray, we often have to split out elements to fully integrate our 3d output back into our footage. It’s always operator skill that makes a great render anyway but a good compositor can take it that extra nine yards…

Sorry if I rambled on but obviously it’s something I’m quite passionate about!

P.S. forget about beta testing – Discreet used “Inferno” to demo Max at trade shows and they were quite stingy about letting us beta.

[KiboOst]

Which problem did you have with brazil+ds2 ?
Anyway, Stage1 got SDK to develop your own aa, cameras, gi engine, shaders based on its raytracer, etc.

[cristo]

Well we haven't got Dreamscape yet (or Brazil for that matter) but I read in the Discreet Forum that the Sea shaders don't work - and we would be looking at Dreamscape maily for sea effects.

SDK in fRender sounds interesting - if only we had a copy! Am not happy with Cebas at all as we bought Final Render (specifically stage 1) to complete a project and that has now completed and still no sign of the software. For this long a wait their software should be state of the art, but some of the images on their web page leave a lot ot be desired. Plus the GI renders of Brazil look a lot better - warmer and less "chalky".

From the Discreet forum it looks like Brazil 2.0 will resolve the Dreamscape issues - so we might hang on for that release - the way Cebas is going it could be before Final Render stage 1!

[KiboOst]

Stage1 is out and ds2 sea mtl works nice.

[xynaria]

I've never used MR so can't comment on it but seeing as most of the revenues for Max are going to come from upgrades...isn't the ethos of lisencing stuff and putting it in maybe a bit self defeating in many ways. If the rumours that don't exist are correct then putting MR and Deep Paint in isn't going to do anything for any one who has bought Deep Paint and/or a plugin rendering solution. This element of the upgrade to R5 really disappointed me because to me the new rendering solutions weren't good and the speed issues with the native renderer weren't in any way addressed. The Ink and Paint material which should have been a very welcome addition is so slow as to be seen as little more than a sick joke and so what you are left with are some welcome new mapping and animation tools, spline IK, and most of the other additions already catered for by free scripts. If R6 similarly fails to address what many see as major issues then why bother quite frankly. I love and hate Max, probably like most, but there is a limit for many about the amount of tolerance for badly implemented tools and problems not addressed. :)

[KiboOst]

I think that the main problem is that the max core have been in too many hands (autodesk, yost group, kinetix, now discreet). That may be due to all this that Discreet is (seems) developing a new core for a enhanced max or maybe a totally new 3dapps. All suspicion but would seems logic.

Kib

[cristo]

well xynaria, I kind of agree with you on the ethos of licensing, and really since Discreet have had ties with mental ray for a while it was the only way to go. But if the MR rumours are true, let’s hope it’s not just a PR coup using the good name of mental ray and we don’t get a half assed implementation of that renderer in Max.

It’s the smaller companies that suffer who can’t R&D workarounds and new solutions and are left with off the shelf solutions to achieve much the same results as the big guys.

Come to think of it, a lot of the better functionality in Max is provided by 3rd party plug-ins and scripts, and as to Max’s built in GI, never used it in production and never will. Maybe should go the whole hog and get set up with Maya and Renderman…

b.t.w KiboOst, you’ve got stage 1 already???? Does Santa come round your house in November too?

[Steve Green]

Hi,

basically some parts of Dreamscape work in Brazil, others like the foam and specular do not.

There is supposed to be an interim (not v2.0) release shortly, hopefully some of the compatibility with 3rd party plugs will be sorted.

- Steve

[halo]

well i use vray these days, so although MR once had an attraction for speed and better image quality, thats really out of the equation now.

The thing is that a lot of 3rd party plugins really arent up to it, and only a few are really worth it, and by producing upgrades that just absorb these and free scripts without addressing more pertinant built in problems Discreet are in danger of turning max into an incoherant assembly of parts whose value is less than the sum of its parts.
Its worth noting that Alias are also taking this route, but not to the same extent, which means that its development and resolution of plugin problems is also limited (the hardware renderers problems for instance). I hope its only a temporary trend on alias' part and discreet buck up their ideas and actually do some development of their own.

I would just be happy if Max 6 could handle complex scene and model files without ****ing up at the end of the day, and had all the loose ends tied up. Deep paint, MR and a partridge in a pear tree i couldnt give a toss about if I still have to keep dealing with screwed up scene files...

[xynaria]

The other side of that one is if the plugin developers do a good job, as some do, then why put in a self development equivalent that is half assed to try and justify the price of an upgrade and be able to claim it as a built in feature. Whilst Max was as much a hub as anything and a comparitively cheap one, people were prepared to be more forgiving of its shortcomings and welcome the easy extensibilty that plug ns in theory offered. That time is long past and Max is no longer comparitively cheap by any means.
Whilst it is lacking many features the competition now have built in who wants them built into Max if they are done in an incompetent or cynical fashion so that you'd still have to buy a plugin to do it anyway. Lets hope the next generation isn't a myth and but also that its a well thought out and competent piece of kit that actually isn't anotherr hodge podge of what they think they can get away with. They also might want to think very carefully about its pricing. :)

[SuperMax]

Soo ummmm wheres the suprise announcement weve been hearing about alot lately??? :surprised

[pff]

Surprise: IT´S TODAY!. And you are aware of the time difference too right ;)? I am 8 hours in front kinda sux awatening news like this... pure torture....

pff

[SuperMax]

Torture it is!!

CMON PEOPLE!!!!

Give us some scoops!!

surely someone must have seen some 3dsmax6 boxes being secretly unloaded off delivery vans at siggraph??? :p

[TheWraith]

lets say i'm willing to bet the announcement today will confirm a lot of these "rumors" :) cept for the price cut. i don't think that's going to happen. but we can always cross our fingers right?

[pff]

ha ha!

DO THEY HAVE THE R&D? DO THEY HAVE SOMETHING UP THEIR SLEEVES!? I SURELY HOPE SO!

pff

[TheWraith]

well,i think it's safe to say the announcement is going to be max 6. and i guess it's okay to say it since it's already posted on friggin' gamespy! weird that a game site would get the word before a 3d site. but anyways, they don't say much but they do say discreet is releasing it.

http://www.gamespydaily.com/

Sega Consulted on 3ds max
Aramo | 5:14 | Tools

Discreet introduced version 6 of its popular 3D modeling software 3ds max. Feedback and requests from game developers, including Sega Japan, have been used in the devising of some of the product's new features, the company said. For more information and pricing details check Discreet's Website. /

not going to give away the new features or shall i say inclusions? as it's not listed on the website that i can see, but it's nearing showtime in san diego i think so you should know by the end of the day i'd think.

[SuperMax]

Interesting.

Is it a suprise? Weve been basically talking about it for months now! just look at this thread ;)

Its the report if correct then it sound like max6 is more game based.

but well wait for futher news official news :)

and start a new. I think this thread has served its purposed. :)


I love max!!

[TheWraith]

New features in 3ds max 6 will include: advanced schematic view for easier viewing and better management of complex scenes; included mental ray® rendering software; vertex colour painting; design visualisation tools and interchange support with Autodesk and other computer-aided design (CAD) and CAD-related solutions; integrated reactor® 2 complete physics-with stuntman and vehicle dynamics; distributed network texture baking, and features that provide greater accessibility to the software for power users. Also included in the release will be a particle flow system for creating realistic fountains, fog, snow, splashes, contrails, explosions and other environmental effects.



somebody posted a link on the main forum

http://www.3dtotal.com/press_releases/discreet02/02.asp

[Linus Ericson]

No big animation news in max6? :thumbsdow

[xynaria]

Smells like yet another fudge..hell some might even say rip off.:(

[dmak]

You guys are quick to jump to conclusions.. these aren't official press releases by discreet. You should really wait and see what they say before you start your bashing.

dmak
dmak@3dimplant.com
www.3dimplant.com

[KiboOst]

Yes, I definitely hope that this pressrelease it stated on the things that Sega needed into max6, and we will then see lot of more new enhancements. Or please, don't release it and jump to a full new HyperMax 1.0 :buttrock:

Kib

[robioto]

Discreet Unveils 3ds max 6- New Version to Incorporate Dedicated New Tools Specific for Film, Games and Design Visualisation 3D Professionals.




Discreet, a division of Autodesk, Inc. (NASDAQ: ADSK), today announced the newest version of its acclaimed 3D modelling, animation and rendering solution 3ds max® 6 at the SIGGRAPH Exhibition in San Diego, California. This major software release for 3D and 2D graphic professionals will offer advanced customer-driven capabilities that enable the professional 3D artist, developer and designer to evolve to a higher level of quality, sophistication, and productivity - as they create top-selling games, motion picture visual effects, or intricate visualisations for building design, industrial or government simulation.

The many new features in 3ds max 6 have been included following feedback and requests from leading film effects, design visualisation, and game development customers, including SEGA Corporation Japan. Designers and animators across all professional design industries will enjoy the depth and breadth of the new 3ds max 6 features to create their 3D designs with more creative tools and speed.

"SEGA is pleased to have been a guiding force in the development process for Discreet 3ds max 6, including providing direction on the new schematic view feature", states Mr. Toshihiro Nagoshi, Officer of SEGA Corporation. "This close connection between SEGA and Discreet encourages us to continue using Discreet's 3ds max as a part of our game development pipeline. SEGA appreciates this strong relationship with Discreet and will continue supporting 3ds max as a user and a part of the development teams."

New features in 3ds max 6 will include: advanced schematic view for easier viewing and better management of complex scenes; included mental ray® rendering software; vertex colour painting; design visualisation tools and interchange support with Autodesk and other computer-aided design (CAD) and CAD-related solutions; integrated reactor® 2 complete physics-with stuntman and vehicle dynamics; distributed network texture baking, and features that provide greater accessibility to the software for power users. Also included in the release will be a particle flow system for creating realistic fountains, fog, snow, splashes, contrails, explosions and other environmental effects.

Discreet 3ds max is used by 80% of all game developers, producing best-selling titles such as: Grand Theft-Auto, Tom Clancey's Splinter Cell, Star Wars:Knights of the Old Republic, and Neverwinter Nights - and continues to lead the game development industry. 3ds max is also used in a growing list of blockbuster films including: X-Men II, Bulletproof Monk, The Core, Final Destination II, Jason vs. Freddy. In addition, 3ds max is the specialty design visualisation tool of choice, used by architects and product designers, with the distinction of being the first-ever 3D design software to be used by the Frank Lloyd Wright foundation at Taliesin West (Scottsdale, AZ). When Discreet snowboard enthusiasts hit the slopes this winter, they will see radical Anime-style 3D design appliqués on the "Punch" and "Chopper" line of Burton Snowboards - all designed and rendered in Discreet 3ds max.

"3ds max 6 is a very powerful release, incorporating top customer requests that will inspire artists and animators across all design industries," said Nick Manning, Software Territory Manager, Discreet. "Discreet is pleased to deliver a solid, stable and rich release to our customers as part of our continued dedication to 3D professionals."

3ds max 6 is expected to be available in Autumn 2003, in English, with pricing at £2695 (VAT not included). German, French, Spanish, Italian versions will be available later in 2003. Upgrade pricing from 3ds max 5 is £595, and £995 from 3ds max 4. Customers are encouraged to join the Discreet Subscription Programme, which gives them access to new software feature extensions, upgrades and e-learning content for an annual fee. For more information, visit http://www.discreet.com/subscription/ for programme details, and resellers for pricing information.

[TheWraith]

http://www.3d-palace.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=630

has a screen grab it looks like

[mo_pic]

Quote:

…Paint Studio: New integrated 3D painting system for the creation of texture and other maps. Includes support for multiple layers, painting on multiple channels and across multiple objects. Based on Right Hemisphere’s industry-leading paint technology….

Deep paint and MAX in one?

GREAT!

DeepUV features?

Would be too much to ask.

[Mr.Black]

FREAKY!!! I want it NOOOW!!!

Seems they gettin upgrated for real over there!!! :beer: :applause: :thumbsup: :buttrock:

[Linus Ericson]

The most importent to know is, do max4/5 plugins work in 6 too?

[Xilica]

wow, thanks for posting a link for the screen grabs!!!

[holosynthetic]

last i heard back in march, they were getting rid of their max 4/5 c-dilla thing?..so plugins for 4/5 won't work on 6....as they said "to further advance our software, we must use new methods, even if this does not let max 4/5 plugins work on 6"..but you know companies will update for max 6...

[IMarshal]

The announcement seems anti-climatic to me after reading the new feature list. I had hoped they'd actually announce they finally rewrote the system, along with the enhancements that go with such a large project :)

The Max 6 release leaves me wanting - anyone else feel the same or do I need a vacation?

Oh well... maybe next release.

[Murf_Miser]

i too feel a little sorrow as though some of the things i most wanted will not be included, mainly a rewrite. Although, i can't wait to see whats new in reactor 2, especially can't wait to play with that rag doll.

[momotea]

:thumbsup:
I love MAX5
hehehehe~~~~~~
MAX6 ? love too~~:wavey: :wavey:

[ShadowM8]

@IMarshal

I heard that version 6 will be the last in the Max series!
They are rewriting the program as well as changing its name from 3ds max to 3ds "something"

But thats just what i heard!

[Oktavian]

Just another news concerning this topic:
http://www.3dtotal.com/press_releases/discreet02/02.asp

[Rurouni]

will the old plugins work with max6? i guess since they (discreet) didn't mention it, the old plugins won't work with max6. correct?

[Icestar]

Dont know about you guys, but I'm really hoping the next max will be a re-write, otherwise bugger it.

[BBP]

is there a possibility to download those wonderful movies?
im not always at home when i watch them and i would enjoy to watch them more times w/o having to wait until they open...

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