finalRender HYPER GI

[raz-0]

It's a pretty content free page, but I think you are going a little overboard with your bitching and moaning. GI flicker is indeed a problem with some GI renderes when animating. At least in their basic sample, theirs does not.

However, if you know enough to care about GI flickering in animation, you don't need the single light source scanline render to know how they will look different. The page would have been much more useful if they just had the flicker free sample, and gave you a resolution, a polygon ocunt, and a render time.

If marketing speak angers you, then dn't read advertising.

[hypercube]

I think he has a point though, a better comparison would have been a GI render with flickering, put up against their whiz-bang non-flickering GI. Doesn't make any sense at all to have it vs. a straight render unless they're simply selling GI, in which case they don't need to talk about flickering..etc. it's a circular argument. :shrug:

[Lord Tyrion]

If marketing speak angers you, then dn't read advertising.

What really angers me is the twisting of facts by Cebas.

Cebas say:
Stage-1 is the first renderer with true 3D motion blur.

Wrong! V-Ray had 3D motion blur long before Cebas made this advertising.


Cebas say:
Stage-1 is the first renderer who can distribute the GI calculation.

Wrong! V-Ray can distribute the irradiance map per bucket over the network.

I could give plenty of more missleading or wrong "facts" from Cebas.

[yog]

There's a lot of history here.
I pre-ordered my copy of Stage-1 last September because the official word from Cebas was that it was going to be released that October. Nine month later there is still no product in sight :thumbsdow

There is a lot of discord on the Final Render forum. Since last September there have been 4 "official" deadlines, all of which have come and gone with no word as to why. The latest tactic is to hint that it's Discreet's admin for not being on the ball, unfortunately another "official" word from Cebas is that some of the main features are still too unstable to be in the latest beta.

Currently the only presence Cebas have on their forum at the momment is to come in every few weeks, delete several posts asking where Stage-1 is and ban a few users for having the nerve to ask. It makes the Animation Master forum look positively liberal :rolleyes:

[Array]

wow, what a completely irrelivant comparison :surprised

EDIT:

this is just as bad as those "benchmarks" found on apple's site.

[halo]

i havent updated to the latest version but vray cant distribute the irradience map over a network, it can only distribute the render after the irradiance map passes or it can distribute the brute force method...still yes vray has excellent 3d motion blur :)

cebas dont seem the most popular developer at the moment...

[Lord Tyrion]

halo please don´t speak about something you obviously don´t know. :)

when i say vray can distribute the irradiance map then it CAN distribute the irradiance map.

and not only since the latest version, since Build 1.09.01a.


A new "bucketed" mode was added to the irradiance map. In this mode a new irradiance map is computed for each separate bucket, as opposed to computing one map for the entire image. The advantage of this is that it requires less memory and allows GI calculations to be distributed across a network

[halo]

halo please don´t speak about something you obviously don´t know.

i've been a vray customer since v 1.8XXX and b4 the last few upgrades vray doesnt/didnt distribute the IR map...if you read my post you 'll see i said I havent upgraded to the latest version ( b'cos i am mid project ) which is why i qualified the response...sorry it was someting like 3.30 am here, perhaps it wasnt clear enough to avoid the patronising response...

[plastic]

Originally posted by Lord Tyrion
halo please don´t speak about something you obviously don´t know. :)
when i say vray can distribute the irradiance map then it CAN distribute the irradiance map.

A new "bucketed" mode was added to the irradiance map. In this mode a new irradiance map is computed for each separate bucket, as opposed to computing one map for the entire image. The advantage of this is that it requires less memory and allows GI calculations to be distributed across a network


can it be that you also try to twist facts a bit? :rolleyes:

you should know that the bucket mode irridiance map creates artefacts between buckets, especially in "trouble zones", so it is only useful for quick test renderings, not for production frames.

and...yes, vray isn't able to create absolutely non-flickering gi animations, because the irridiance map seems to variate in its energy, even if its pre calculated (with the incremental add stuff).
the flickering is very small though and only visible on large flat surfaces.

being a vray fan i hope they fix that soon, but those finalrender videos are definitely impressive. everyone who tried to render animations with gi should realize that.

[Lord Tyrion]

Originally posted by plastic
can it be that you also try to twist facts a bit? :rolleyes:

you should know that the bucket mode irridiance map creates artefacts between buckets, especially in "trouble zones", so it is only useful for quick test renderings, not for production frames.

and...yes, vray isn't able to create absolutely non-flickering gi animations, because the irridiance map seems to variate in its energy, even if its pre calculated (with the incremental add stuff).
the flickering is very small though and only visible on large flat surfaces.

being a vray fan i hope they fix that soon, but those finalrender videos are definitely impressive. everyone who tried to render animations with gi should realize that.


1) they have reworked the irradiance bucket mode.
so the artifacts are not that visible anymore.
it was a bigger problem in earlyer builds.
anyway that makes cebas advertising not correct. period. :)
you can not even buy this render and they claim to be first (same with unlimited poly support).

2)radiosity works with energy transportation between face.
thats why you have a correct solution with radiosity.
irradiance mapping is a different approach and is sure not 100% flickerfee from the start. but if you take the time you will find vray animations where you see! no flickering. you only have to know how to tweak it. look at the vray forum!

3) i can not build a decision about HYPER GI based on this animation.
and i wonder how you decide what is video compression flickering and what could be GI flickering. :)

i agree that a flickerfree GI solution would be great, no question!!
but this advertising from cebas is a bad joke in my eyes.

[Lord Tyrion]

Originally posted by halo
i've been a vray customer since v 1.8XXX and b4 the last few upgrades vray doesnt/didnt distribute the IR map...if you read my post you 'll see i said I havent upgraded to the latest version


and as you can read, i wrote it supports this since build 1.09.01a (that was released 17.8.2002). ;)

look in the VRAY readme if you don´t believe what i say.

vray can distribute the irradiance map calculation on a "per bucket basis".

[halo]

:rolleyes:

[AJ]

Originally posted by Lord Tyrion
and as you can read, i wrote it supports this since build 1.09.01a (that was released 17.8.2002). ;)

look in the VRAY readme if you don´t believe what i say.


I'm guessing halo, like myself - hasn't updated his version due to all updates being 'unstable' builds. All good and well for trying new features - but when you have to get renders to a paying client, not exactly something you have the luxury of playing with.

I had no idea vray could do this either, (and I'm very glad you've brought this feature to my attention) - but saying things like "please don´t speak about something you obviously don´t know", gives off nothing but arrogance. :surprised

[Lord Tyrion]

first i want to say, english is not my native language and it´s hard for me to write in english. so sometimes my words maybe sound harsh.

but why is the truth = arrogance?

it was obvious for me that he don´t know this.

i think it´s more the case that nobody likes to be corrected. ,)

thats why i check my sources twice before i write something in a forum. ;)

i think as customer you will visit the vray support forum?
many high profil studios using the newer vray builds because they are much faster.

i can not believe that you don´t needed photon maps yet?
which also came first with build 1.09.01a.

i could not live without global photon maps. :buttrock:

not to mention that DR rendering was nearly not working in the earlyer builds (1.08.04P. who is the build you must be using then, because it is the last so called production ready build).

[Rodi]

Really interesting discussion here guys, I don't know the full technical details behind vray or Cebas FR, but i have used them in the past, in my view Brazil is the overall best, and you can get almost nonflicker animations, but you have to increase the sample rates fairly high, which obviously slows it down, I found earlier versions of Cebas FR useless, too slow at rendering, too slow to set up.

[percydaman]

Ive been a registered vray user for quite some time now and honestly couldn't remember if the bucket mode was working or still "had issues." So i ran a quick test:

http://myweb.cableone.net/amylenhart/stuff/2.jpg

There doesn't seem to be any bucket artifacts that I can see, which is great cause I'll start using it now for tests :bounce:

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