Vehicle: PBY5A Catalina

[arai]

excellent work, good to see more aircraft enthusiasts. You may want to slightly reshape the wingtips, I can see some poly segmentation and it looks a little rounded (if looking from the front). something doesnt look quite right with the props too. I dont have my pby book in front of me (its at work) but make sure you've got good reference for them. Other than that looks great, cant wait to see some textures on it.



-arai-

[mmiller]

Looks good to me:thumbsup:

But, I'm not exactly an expert on WW2 era AC so you will have to look to others for technical input

Excelent choice of subject.
Not commonly modeled and there is great potential for interesting images.
I also am looking forward to seeing it textured.
I would suggest heavy weathering
salt water is nasty stuff ;)

here's a link with some material that might be useful
http://www.aircraftwalkaround.com/catalina/catalina.htm

Mark

[azazel]

Very nice model, I always like that kind of aircrafts ;) Now make some really cool scene for her, that plane has great potential indeed:thumbsup:

[fourd]

I'm no expert on aircraft, but it looks really really good. I think the props appear to be to small for the aircraft, but I don't know. Nice modeling skills you have:thumbsup:

[wayfaerer]

I'm no expert in aircraft either, but I doubt, I would find something to crit if I was....

Really cool plane! Should be great when it's textured. You should take care that it doesn't look like a model aircraft when it's done, unless you want to. I think this is a problem of many aircraft models.

[cpiboontum]

:beer: Great work on this Catalina. Looking forward to seeing more of your work. By the way, a welcoming sight to see some aircraft enthusias.

-VISuAL3DFX

[cpiboontum]

Hi:

It is me again. Just two quesitons for you. What modeling software did you use and do you mind at this point sharing with us your wireframe.

-VISuAL3DFX

[xynaria]

Thanks for the comments folks .. I'll have to reply to these individually cos of the restrictions here.

BTW.. I doubt I class as an aircraft enthusiast as this is the first airplane I've done ... which shows cos if I'd done one before I'd have avoided this like the plague because it's got so many things that whilst challenging are headaches (open radials anyone:D) :)

Originally posted by arai
You may want to slightly reshape the wingtips, I can see some poly segmentation and it looks a little rounded (if looking from the front). something doesnt look quite right with the props too.
-arai-

I've beefed the props up a bit, I'd made them too thin on a remake.. they still look a bit suspect to me too but I still haven't figured out what it actually is that's going amiss. As for the wing see below because I'm not sure I understand yu , which is not to say you are wrong.. just that I can't quite work out what you mean. :)


http://www.dacl04115.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/88_2.jpg



and

http://www.dacl04115.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/88CR.jpg

[xynaria]

Originally posted by mmiller


here's a link with some material that might be useful
http://www.aircraftwalkaround.com/catalina/catalina.htm

Mark

Thanks a lot.. that is one I somehow didn't manage to come across before and is useful for the wheel assembly though one of the problems with Cats is that there are a lot of derivatives (The Canso was one) but there's not a lot of detailed photos of originals that I've been able to find. If anyone has any other good references .. especially for the interior and/or the machine guns, I'd be very grateful.



Originally posted by wayfaerer
You should take care that it doesn't look like a model aircraft when it's done, unless you want to. I think this is a problem of many aircraft models.


Yeah That is something that always bugs me immensely so I will be on guard.. I think I managed to avoid that with this :
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4973
so here's hoping, especially as I won't be able to use GI on this.



cpiboontum .. here's a couple of wires, smoothed and unsmoothed. Max 4.2 btw


http://www.dacl04115.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/88WO.jpg

and
http://www.dacl04115.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/88W.jpg



:)

[xynaria]

And just to bore everyone really stoopid here's a cel shaded detail.
:)


http://www.dacl04115.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/88C11.jpg

[liQu1d]

AWESOME

how much polys?

[cpiboontum]

Wow!!! Your toon shading is remarkable!!! Nice work. Thanks for posting your wireframe.

-VISuAL3DFX

[xynaria]

Originally posted by liQu1d


how much polys?

Pass.. I think it clocks in at about 750,000 or so.. more than half of which is the engines and the tyres. I like to use as few polys as possible but so much of this is rounded so they have more smoothing than I'd ideally like. I tried various 'cons' for the engines and though some would be ok for an anim .. they look shit on stills.

The cel shading is just bog standard Cartoon Reyes ....a great lttle programme .. it's not that considered but it allows you to show stuff well quickly.


BTW any IK gurus out there, I really am gonna need help on that undercarriage.. I got a *cough* 'solution' for the floats but it's far from elegant and needs re thinking. The idea is that when this is finished it is 'flyable' by sliders......i.e retractable undercarriage and floats, forward speed affects propellor speed and vice versa dependant.. banking etc to be all on a dummy that affects aerilons etc.. well in theory anyway. :)

[LIMBAUL_ABIGGOR]

two words simply awesome:bounce:

[mmiller]

If your looking for additional reference you might want to consider buying the Monogram 1/48 scale plastic model.

Using scale models as reference can be problematic, but this kit was recently produced and I believe the general accuracy and level of detail is very good.

just an idea
Mark

[hippie-andy]

all i have to say is...DDDAAAAANNNNNNGGGGGG.:thumbsup: :buttrock:

[halo]

looking nice and tight to me...

the only thing i'd have a look at (and its prob worth looking at a photo really to judge) is the window frames...i think perhaps the plans are doing you a diservice...those frames just look on the thick side to me, almost as thick as the front wheel forks...i wonder if thats how it would be

oh and being reaaally picky, theres a tiny s bend in the leading edge of the rear tail planes where it meets the vertical and the vertical leading edge of the tail plane looks again a little fat, but again without a photo to look at i could be wrong

one for turbosquid there :D

[MadHamish]

When a model looks this good untextured you just know its going to be very special when it finished. Looking forward to it!

[xynaria]

Thanks again people. :)


Mark.. thanks for the prod.. I avoided models cos they are usually not that accurate..and that one does have problems.... but doing searches for it did give me some useful stuff that clarified some points.. (That I now have to redo .. GRRR LOL )

Halo.. thanks.. in the case of the pillars.. you're right and checking them again has made me find some other slip ups that I'm re doing.... (damn.. had to alter a hell of a lot now. :D)
I can't get the s bend thing at all though.. but there again, as you already know, I is a dimmy so you might have to get the mallet out and hit me over the head with it. :)

[Dzignguy]

Wooowzer!!!!
A great 3D model! I actually flew in one of those in 1951, I was 8 years old and a navy friend of my dad was in the navy at Pearl Harbor. He was the crew chief we got a ride for an hour or so while checking out Mona Loa, which was getting ready to erupt. In any case I hope my Connie turns out half as good as this thing. Keep up the good work!

[D_Caldie]

yeah, this is a great model... did you just use a few blueprint refs? if so its incredibly detailed and very well done, congrats. :thumbsup:

[xynaria]

Dzignguy .. thanks....LOL Lucky you.. actually even though me and flying are not on speaking terms I would probably make an exception to go in one of these myself. :)


D_Caldie.. I nabbed some rather unweildy blueprints off a NZ site I think and though they are pretty detailed.. they are also a bit distorted and the views won't line up so quite a bit of guesswork and looking at whatever I could find came into it.. that mainly being jpegs hunted off google searches and a video of a History channel programme. Being honest, more than I'd like is not going to be totally accurate but then a lot of the planes themselves appear to have been modified to fit squadrons/buyers/ situations anyways. Engine ref was again some jpegs off a Google search though I wasn't going to attempt anything other than what stood a good chance of showing.. they are too many polys for comfort already. :D
There were actually some other details I modelled but problems with the way the mesh smoothing handled them made them not worth the heartache so unless they can't be handled adequately by the texturing, they are in abeyance. I have corrected it quite a lot since this but I can't render at the mo till I replace my cpu fan. :)

[goodlag]

wow great modeling work:thumbsup:

[Gremlin]

wow, savage detail there man!
I mean, superior job of modeling... now if you texture that bad boy, thats good quality reel work!
Cheers,
:beer:

[Undseth]

Great Job!!!

I envy you. I started on the Catalina two times, and have yet to finish it (used nurbs though).

I couldn't pick on anything on this model.

One thing though; how about some extra details inside the "gun blisters". I also think this glass (movable) has a handle on the outside. Hehe.

Congratulations

[mushroomgod]

looks great:applause:

[azazel]

some photos here, hope they help ;):
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?&keywords=catalina&keywrange=aircraft&nr_of_rows=123&first_this_page=15&page_limit=15&sort_order=photo_id+desc&thumbnails=photos&engine_version=5.0&nr_pages=9&page=

[Waz]

the only thing i think might be a bit off on the model is where the fin meets the fuselage, i think it too smooth, i can't recall but i think there is just more of a ridge there,

excellent work for sure

[xynaria]

Thanks all:)

undseth .. if max's nurbs weren't so 'problematic' there are certainly areas were I would have liked to have tried nurbs as being a better solution. There are actually handles on the pods.. you can just in so see them on the cel detail... but yes it could do with more inside the pods.. I'm trying to get good enough reference for the machine guns to do them and what is already in there.. the bulkheads and boxes , temporary seat etc don't really show in the renders.

azazel... great link and thanks very much indeed.. although most are refurbishments, it's helped a lot to clarify some details and they are the biggest pics I've been able to find so far. :thumbsup:

waz.. In the main I went by the blueprints and the tailplane.. (is that what you mean) seems reasonably accurate.... the later PBY6 did have a different shaped tailplane that is much sharper than on this though. :)

[datter]

I've done some aircraft work in the past, wwii included.. but damn man, you've outdone yourself. That's fantastic work. :thumbsup:

datter

[Skyraider3D]

Xynaria, I think I can call myself an aircraft buff :D I have to say your model of the Cat is absolutely stunning!

The only things I can pick up without reference (not at hand at the moment) are:

* There's a seam between the fuselage and the vertical tail plane. Though there is a visible transition there on the real plane, it should be less pronounced.
* The edges of the radial engine opening should curve inside a bit more. Gotto say you're a brave man for modelling radials!!! ;)
* The exhaust covers look a bit odd to me. I've not seen this variant before. But then again I am not a Catalina exhaust cover expert, so they could be spot on!

I really like the cell-shaded stuff, by the way! Nice one! Gotto give that a go myself maybe.

I wonder now... what colours will you give it? I hope not a standard US Navy one! There's loads of interesting colourschemes around for this bird.

Again, great work! Keep us updated on the texturing progress! Can't wait to see it!

Ronnie

PS. Your car model in the other post is awesome as well! :thumbsup:

[stecki]

beautiful. she's one of my favorites and im always saddened in TORA TORA TORA when these babies blow up. great job!!!

[xynaria]

Thanks a lot Skyraider for the heads up on the cowlings.. you were right indeed..oops!. The tailplane however I am leaving as is at the monent till I have tried out the bump maps.. lol ..if I ever get round to them.
The radials were daunting.. mainly cos getting reference was hard but to make ..it's 90% instancing so they look more ridiculous than they actually are.
The exhausts?? .. do you mean the de-Icers on the top? .. they should be pretty close as I followed the plans quite a bit on those.
Could be a while before I can get back on this properly but here is a base material type test. :)


http://www.dacl04115.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/97.jpg

and an engine type thingy
http://www.dacl04115.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/engine.jpg

[Dzignguy]

Wow, getting better and better!!

That radial is very nice! Is that supposed to be a Curtiss Wright?
Also, is that 14 cylinders? In any case a great job on the cylinder heads. Keep posting!

[xynaria]

14 Cylinders.. but in theory Pratt & Whitney 1200-hp R-1830-92 :)

[norman619]

Dude! I can't tell you how amazed I am with your toon render. I'm in a pre-production class and have been assigned the taks of modeling the airplanes and cellshading them. I'm having the hardest time maintaining line quality. Mind giving me some pointers? Your work rocks!

[xynaria]

Ooer missus.. eek... don't take me seriously.. honestly I ain't worth it... toon shading.. I used Cartoon Reyes and wasn't too careful save.. it mostly lies with that in getting the balance on the concave convex levels BUT.. though great for stills.. for animation you really just have to test cos it really can be a nightmare juggling between keeping detail and having the mesh show.... I'd actually say if you have Max 5 (dunno .. only tried the demo).. the ink and paint material might be better that way .. BUT.. you have to have a spare lifetime waiting while it renders. .....not to mention getting all emotional at the way Di$creet despises their user base.: )

[Skyraider3D]

Great stuff! Engines (and cowlings!) look very good!
Like Dzignguy says: keep posting! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[mucksmear]

xynaria,

you commented earlier that there was something not quite right about your props, though you couldn't put your finger on it.

Only thing that comes to my mind is that your propeller blades do not appear to have enough twist in them. Propeller blades have a higher angle of attack at the blade root, where they meet the propeller hub. Try adding a just a little.

Otherwise, like others have noted, that's one really really nice job!

-E

[Skyraider3D]

Is it finished yet? :)

[boboroshi]

This is looking awesome.

[xynaria]

*blushes* oops.. no it hasn't progressed at all really as I haven't had time to work on it..I have found some better reference which means I'm gonna re do the wheels and side pods and though I've now got 'reasonable' reference for he gun supports, I haven't been able to find any yet for the machine guns (and shields) themselves.. if you can point me in the right direction for those it would be much appreciated. :)

[Skyraider3D]

Maybe this helps? :)

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/blackcat/photo4.htm

and this one especially: http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/201-300/walk291_PBY/walk291.htm

Here's an example:

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/201-300/walk291_PBY/images_Phillip_Juvet/PBY-5A_23.jpg

And if you fancy doing a cutaway model of it... ;)
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/501-600/walk533_PBY_Pearson/walk533.htm

And finally, this website contains a number of good Catalina walkarounds too:
http://www.seawings.co.uk/walkrounds.htm


ENJOY! :)

[xynaria]

Brilliant Skyraider... thanks very much indeed. :) :)



LOL now why do I think my poly count is now going to top the 1,000,000 mark (currently 750,000) :D

[kyle_tdr]

Try not to have your props spinning at exactly the same angle, if you understand what that means.

So when your left prop has 1 blade like this I the other is maby like this / that way it looks a bit more real and random, also try increasing the motion blur on the blades.

[xynaria]

Yeah the props is mainly due to lazyness as one is an instance of the other. Got to admit though it is inexcusable. Motion blur is going to be a problem though as Max's motion blur is not really suitable for propellors so I'm going to have to find a different solution. :)

[Skyraider3D]

I gave up on motion blur in MAX as it's a bit poo :)
I'm now using opacity mapped alpha planes - they tend to look more realistic. Photoshop's radial blur is excellent for generating the textures for these.

[MonkeyMeat]

This my first reply/post ever, here.

Great work by the way, on the PBY!! (personaly i think its one of the cooler designed operational AC in the war)


this is about the wing tips:


Originally posted by arai
excellent work, good to see more aircraft enthusiasts. You may want to slightly reshape the wingtips, I can see some poly segmentation and it looks a little rounded (if looking from the front).

-arai-


Dono if this is what you mean aria, but the wingtips are actualy pontoons that lower on landing . . . .. so thats why there is a sharp edge on them. , , , , if that is what you meant?
anyways..

Keep up the good work



(hope i posted this right. . . first time)

[Skyraider3D]

What happened to this one? :)

[xynaria]

oops..er.. it got put on the side whilst attention was elsewhere even if courtesy of Gibbage I got some great additional reference.:)
As soon as time is available I'm re-doing a lot of it and hopefully even finishing it before getting on with the increasing pile of new stuff fighting for attention. :)

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