Houdini 9.5 Public Beta Available for Mac, Windows, and Linux!

[Venkman]

Wow- 64-bit support on the mac. That stuff is tight. (Intel only, damn my G5 purchase)

Edit: I just saw some of the new features for smoke, fluids, clouds, etc. That is beautiful. The destruction and debris capabilities certainly call out to those who are interested in making some giant robots stomp around or super heroes duke it out!

[frogspasm]

Hoorah!
Can't wait to play tonight.

[whalerider]

Now that sounds like an update worth checking out.

[kemijo]

I just bought a new Mac Pro a week ago (newbie)...and now this (and I pick up MGS 4 today).

I think I'm getting the geek sweats.

Houdini 9.5 new features look amazing. Side Effects is relentless these days, so good to see. I am buying ApprenticeHD tonight for sure.

[-Sai-]

hot damn!
one sexy version!

[SoulVector]

Some really cool stuff in there :) Been looking forward to this release.

[aesnakes]

Yes I love how happy people are with this product, users feel like this company actually listens and blows them away with each release. I hate companies that just release a new version every year *cough* autodesk *cough* hopefully they dont try to buy this out. Keep up the great work Im in the middle of switching over to this software and super impressed!!

[benytone]

You are the best of the best ''Houdini'' and better than all the rest :bounce:
many many many thanks...
.

[CoolDuck]

Hooray this is good news! I love the OS X platform... except for the lack of 3D programs on it. This is a step in the right direction! :)

[benytone]

Just Notice...
the walk cycle of leopard is totally wrong...:D

[beaker]

Hooray this is good news! I love the OS X platform... except for the lack of 3D programs on it. Maya, Lightwave, Modo, Silo, Zbrush, EI, etc... and now Houdini.

Looks like are just missing XSI and 3dsmax.

[Robert Magee]

Thanks for all the kind words. I am finally back on the Mac after many years. It feels very good!

Robert

PS - Just Notice...
the walk cycle of leopard is totally wrong...:D

Strange - the leopard we had walking around the office for reference looked exactly like that ;-). Maybe he was just nervous.....

[TopherMartini]

Maya, Lightwave, Modo, Silo, Zbrush, EI, etc... and now Houdini.

Looks like are just missing XSI and 3dsmax.
Forgot Cinema 4D :thumbsup:

One of the big parts about Houdini that gets me going is Apprentice HD. For hobbyists it can be tough to straddle the PLE vs Commercial boundary because there are no options in the middle to fill the void. You wouldn't want a watermark over all of your demo reel nor does spending thousands of dollars on something you don't generate profit from make a whole lot of sense.

At $99 Side Effects definitely got my money today... :love:

[calilifestyle]

MDD nice. btw will the export mdd be included in HD version

[Robert Magee]

MDD nice. btw will the export mdd be included in HD version

yes but it can only be used for non-commercial projects....

[mummey]

PS -
Strange - the leopard we had walking around the office for reference looked exactly like that ;-). Maybe he was just nervous.....

or drunk. ;)

I'll definitely be playing around with a copy once I get some time set aside. Thanks guys.

[Venkman]

yes but it can only be used for non-commercial projects....

That is awesome.

[Lone Deranger]

Fantastic! Side Effects are truly kicking ass and are putting autodesk, avid, maxon, etc. to shame with this 64 bit release on OSX! Well done guys... so tempted to buy a copy now..... :buttrock:

[Rhs_CG]

I love using the Mac version, and having access to an HD license. My only regret is the day I received my Mac Pro, the new, 8 core models came out. Oh well, it works for my needs.

SideFX is one of the best software companies to be a customer of.

All we need now is the Mac version of ZBrush, when it's done.

[Hooch]

Just Notice...
the walk cycle of leopard is totally wrong...:D


OMG! you should take that walk cycle out of your front page guys, totally totally wrong!
sorry but it's true... :shrug:

The rest is only Great News! :love:

[ThomasMahler]

Geez, I hear more and more good stuff about Houdini, time to check it out.

[jorust]

Geez, I hear more and more good stuff about Houdini, time to check it out.

Ditto.

And maybe CGTalk could add Houdini to the Application Specific (3D) Sub-Forums? :deal:

[Maph]

Kickass release guys!
Time to upgrade my HD license me thinks.:buttrock:

SideFX is on a roll lately. :applause:

[mustique]

I'm using the apprentice edition occasionaly. SideFX is cool. They update theri software almost on a weekly basis and don't treat their software as it was the biggest secret in the world. Hopefully one day I'll feel comfortable enough to use it as my main app.

[cresshead]

so what's the modeling like in 9.5?
there's nothing in the tutorial section that seems to cover even basic modeling of a 'model' like a head, character, car, house etc...last time i watched a houdini modeling vid..waaay back from 3dbuzz it was a convoluted and quite painful process...i hope that's changed abit...if not then having zbrush, modo or silo would be a good bet in conjunction with houdini.

[Maph]

so what's the modeling like in 9.5?
there's nothing in the tutorial section that seems to cover even basic modeling of a 'model' like a head, character, car, house etc...last time i watched a houdini modeling vid..waaay back from 3dbuzz it was a convoluted and quite painful process...i hope that's changed abit...if not then having zbrush, modo or silo would be a good bet in conjunction with houdini.

Houdini's modelling (and everything else) is still completely nodal based. And I doubt it SideFX will change this. :)
Nodal modelling has many advantages like the whole non destructive editing and such, but also disadvantages such as time consuming, memory hogging if not done properly, etc...
Modelling in Houdini can be bloody powerfull, especially in the hard surface area, but I wouldn't do organic shapes in it.

Copy and stamp still kicks ass though, no matter what version of Houdini. :bounce:

[jason-slab]

so what's the modeling like in 9.5?
there's nothing in the tutorial section that seems to cover even basic modeling of a 'model' like a head, character, car, house etc...last time i watched a houdini modeling vid..waaay back from 3dbuzz it was a convoluted and quite painful process...i hope that's changed abit...if not then having zbrush, modo or silo would be a good bet in conjunction with houdini.

i wouldn't use Houdini for modeling, yes u can model in it, it's strengths are in other areas
moving data in and out of Houdini is really easy, so i don't see a need for even trying to model in Houdini

jason

[SoulVector]

i wouldn't use Houdini for modeling, yes u can model in it, it's strengths are in other areas
moving data in and out of Houdini is really easy, so i don't see a need for even trying to model in Houdini

jason

True. But procedurally speaking there is probably no other package where you can create a character/creature generator asset as easy as in Houdini.

[cresshead]

True. But procedurally speaking there is probably no other package where you can create a character/creature generator asset as easy as in Houdini.

cool, i look forward to seeing a shed load of those turn up soon then!

also found some NEW vids on houdini over on 3dbuzz.com , it's on their main page.

http://www.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/sv_home.php

http://www.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/sv_video.php?v=1020

[ViCoX]

Damn, houdini is really cool! Now I REALLY need to start learning it : )
Bang, way to go sidefx!

[SoulVector]

cool, i look forward to seeing a shed load of those turn up soon then!

That would be nice but the modeling tools haven’t changed that much the last couple of versions. So it has been possible to create such things for some time. It is also worth mentioning that I’m thinking Nurbs here. Because you can procedurally convert to polys and procedurally uv-map the objects. Unlike modern subd modeling tools like silo/modo/Nex etc. you don’t have intuitive tools designed to be fast. So modeling in a destructive way with hundreds of tweaks doesn’t really work in Houdini. You can do it but it is not nearly as fast. Instead you can with a planned out network create procedural geometry that you have lots of control over without a single line of code.

[Venkman]

How are the character animation tools? I know Houdini muscles and cloth built in, but are people animating in another package and then bringing it into Houdini for integration with the dynamics/particles/fx?

On paper (or their websites), most 3d programs seem very capable for character animation. But in 3d world reviews they don't hesitate to say when some of the big names need better CA features.

[mustique]

Procedural modelling in Houdini opens new ways for interesting effects but modelling as we know it is not houdini's focus. There are more than enough capable programs for modelling that can export data to houdini.


Houdini is very capable for character animation but it only is rewarding for big animation projects due to its initial tedious workflow. Once you build a digital asset, that requires little to no coding, you can use it in very creative ways for the rest of your life though.

[Tamis]

My vieuw on houdini is that it's better at everything except for building assets in a linear fasion.(simply modeling by moving pollys around)

There is no other package i know of that gives you the power to do what houdini can do.
except for when you write your own tools C++

[ThE_JacO]

Ditto.

And maybe CGTalk could add Houdini to the Application Specific (3D) Sub-Forums? :deal:

Yah, like we don't try it every year :)
HDN forums have been opened several times, every time they barely scrap 30 threads a year and hardly any views.

HDN's userbase has too good and too strong an attachment to ODF. Maybe we'll try it again by HDN 10 since the userbase has grown a lot between 8.x and now.

[arctor]

Houdini is just fine for character animation...it's not motion builder, but you can get the job done, it's channel editor is fantastic...
one thing that make character animation in Houdini a little harder (if that's the right word) is that the setup time is a bit more than most other apps - but once you have a character as a digital asset you can build a pretty awesome pipeline.

[Mr Moose]

Yah, like we don't try it every year :)
HDN forums have been opened several times, every time they barely scrap 30 threads a year and hardly any views.

HDN's userbase has too good and too strong an attachment to ODF. Maybe we'll try it again by HDN 10 since the userbase has grown a lot between 8.x and now.Sorry to belabour the issue, ThE_JacO :), but Houdini being what it is (a major app, and on the up at that), should have some sort of representation on the premier CG site - I don't think it should matter if a forum isn't so popular in this case, as long as it acts as a first port of call - and there's always the chance that it could pick-up in time particularly, like you say, given Houdini's increase in popularity since H9.

I guess I'm saying why wait for H10 - you yourself even sound half convinced now... :)

[ThE_JacO]

Sorry to belabour the issue, ThE_JacO :), but Houdini being what it is (a major app, and on the up at that), should have some sort of representation on the premier CG site - I don't think it should matter if a forum isn't so popular in this case, as long as it acts as a first port of call - and there's always the chance that it could pick-up in time particularly, like you say, given Houdini's increase in popularity since H9.

I guess I'm saying why wait for H10 - you yourself even sound half convinced now... :)

I'm more than half convinced, I've been a HDN user for a while now and I'm very fond of sideFX as a company too, but an empty forum doesn't reflect positively on the company too.

CGS has tried several times to get something going, but HDN has a very particular social configuration when it comes to users.
This is first and foremost a community site with strong ethics, I don't think a token gesture alone would reflect the site's style nor sideFX's needs :)

[arctor]

ok...
why are we calling Houdini HDN?
I don't like that...please stop :curious:

the sidefx forums and od[force] (and the mailing list - often overlooked) are really the best places to be for Houdini info...ALL of the people working with Houdini professionally read these and many are quite active...

[Rhs_CG]

Yeah, Odforce and the SideFX forums are excellent, always ready to answer questions.

[Robert Magee]

For game artists i just wanted to point out that Houdini 9.5 Apprentice HD is now available from Garage Games and includes an exporter to their Indie Torque Game Engine:

www.garagegames.com (http://www.garagegames.com)

If artists are outputting to the game engine then the license agreement allows for limited commercial association. Basically the same EULA that developers enjoy with Torque applies to Apprentice HD.

[TopherMartini]

Is the Torque Exporter available if you already have a license of Houdini Apprentice HD, or is it only available for new licenses purchased from GarageGames?

[Tamis]

Yah, like we don't try it every year :)
HDN forums have been opened several times, every time they barely scrap 30 threads a year and hardly any views.

HDN's userbase has too good and too strong an attachment to ODF. Maybe we'll try it again by HDN 10 since the userbase has grown a lot between 8.x and now.

Well, most of the Houdini users are long time professionals and have spend all these years at Odforce or Sidefx forums.
They won't really move, so your left with a bunch of beginners here in CGtalk.
Now that is not a bad thing as(absolute) beginners can often help each other out and would rather stick to the CGtalk channel then going to Odforce as the topics there discussed are often another level up.

But the fact is that most of the Houdini beginners are often people who already know a 3d application and move directly threw to Odforce or play it low key and figure things out for themselfs.

And then there WAS ofcorse the bad documentation that would stop any (Absolute) beginner in there path to learn houdini.
Thankfully the documentation IS and is getting better every day, but still you have to be somewhat of a geek to learn houdini.

This is my vieuw on things any way.

[stevecullum]

Originally Posted by calilifestyle
MDD nice. btw will the export mdd be included in HD version


yes but it can only be used for non-commercial projects....

This doesn't appear to be the case to my disappointment. I just paid for the HD version, specifically to test this feature out, but the MDD file writer ROP is missing as far as I can tell. I was looking forward to testing with Lightwave :(

[ThE_JacO]

Just guessing here, but the inclusion of the MDD ROP would pretty much void the whole idea of apprentice/apprenticeHD being blackboxed as learning tools (IE: hipnc, no RIBdumping etc).

I still think of apprentice HD as a super low cost educational/hobbyist version that doesn't require you to satisfy the usual set of requirements to get an edu version.
Big fan of the idea personally, and I think the current configuration of it is very close to ideal.

Well, most of the Houdini users are long time professionals and have spend all these years at Odforce or Sidefx forums.
==snip==
This is my vieuw on things any way.
That's pretty much the same view of it I have.
The software and its reputation (good and bad, deserved or not) attracts a particular type of crowd, and as things stand other venues like ODF and mailing lists are better suited to take care of it, or at least so established that their inertia alone makes a redundant forum on cgtalk unlikely to succeed.

[ColinCohen]

There's two sets of plugins available on odforce that both export and import .mdd files. I use one of them, and it works very well.

[Tamis]

That's pretty much the same view of it I have.
The software and its reputation (good and bad, deserved or not) attracts a particular type of crowd, and as things stand other venues like ODF and mailing lists are better suited to take care of it, or at least so established that their inertia alone makes a redundant forum on cgtalk unlikely to succeed.

I agree on your statement but i do think that within a short time span when there is even more documentation and more tutorials out there a Houdini forum would succeed here on CGtalk.

[whalerider]

There are already a lot of Houdini learning materials - tons of free tutorials on sidefx.com, odforce.net, 3dbuzz.com, etc; 2 books (with at least one more coming out soon), a dozen DVDs (Gnomon Workshop, CMIVFX, Vizyacky.com, Digital Tutors, 3dbuzz.com), plus dozens of project files with notes inside the Houdini help.

[Mr Moose]

There are already a lot of Houdini learning materials - tons of free tutorials on sidefx.com, odforce.net, 3dbuzz.com, etc; 2 books (with at least one more coming out soon), a dozen DVDs (Gnomon Workshop, CMIVFX, Vizyacky.com, Digital Tutors, 3dbuzz.com), plus dozens of project files with notes inside the Houdini help.Sounds like Houdini is easier than ever to get into. :)

But take Mary. She's just seen a big budget movie and decides she wants to pursue a career in CG. She googles for a cg forum as a first port of call. CGTalk is at the top of the list so she comes here and starts here learning. She sees from the forums that there are a number of apps that she can focus on, so picks one. 18 months later she reads an obscure post which mentions something called Houdini, which she has never heard of before. Although she's happy in her chosen app she looks into this thing called Houdini and wishes that she would have known about it when she was first starting out.

I guess I'm saying that Houdini is now well placed to be a first timer's app (particularly with all of the training that's recently been made available for it) - the notion that it only interests 'odforce' types surely comes from denial, intended or not.

Fair's fair guys - lets see a Houdini forum here where it can stand fairly represented side by side other software - anything else just smells of a conspiracy imo.

[ThE_JacO]

Fair's fair guys - lets see a Houdini forum here where it can stand fairly represented side by side other software - anything else just smells of a conspiracy imo.

What conspiracy? Come on that's pretty ridiculous.
As I said one has been opened several times, and then closed each time. Several mods actually like houdini, a couple of us actually used it in production, and none that I know of has a grudge with it or any opposition to promoting it (quite the opposite in fact).
But if Mary reads of Houdini here and notices a forum where not one person utters a pip it's not like it does the application a whole lot of good is it?

I'm the first one who'd like to see one, and the admins know I'll be happy to put the moderation work in too if it gets re-opened (as was the case before), but cramming a bunch of first timers in an area on cgtalk for the two weeks it takes them to get frustrated does not constitute a good forum :)

If you think it would be so prominent and well frequented feel free to start a poll (like we haven't seen a number of them and answered each one every time :) ), and see how many people would vote for "yes, I'm a houdini user and I would regularly frequent the forum on CGTalk for it". Chances are, not that many.

[ColinCohen]

Do you have any info on that new Houdini book, whalerider?

One Houdini topic that could use training materials is the character tools. There's very little available on the subject.

[Tamis]

Do you have any info on that new Houdini book, whalerider?

One Houdini topic that could use training materials is the character tools. There's very little available on the subject.

No there is not:
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=991&Itemid=132
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=554&Itemid=132
www.3dbuzz.com ->houdini->rigging

[ColinCohen]

Well, my comment was perhaps subjective, but I wouldn't consider one tutorial about the complete process a lot of information -- especially as, in my opinion, character animation is an area where a large knowledge base of information is essential.

The 3dbuzz tutorials, I believe, are for v5.5.

I don't think there's anything about it in either book, there's no DVDs on the subject (as far as I know), and relatively little information in the help.

But I certainly wasn't trying to start an argument.

[SheepFactory]

I have been playing with the OSX version and man houdini has come a long way in user friendliness. Time to do some tutorials.

[Rhs_CG]

Well, my comment was perhaps subjective, but I wouldn't consider one tutorial about the complete process a lot of information -- especially as, in my opinion, character animation is an area where a large knowledge base of information is essential.

The 3dbuzz tutorials, I believe, are for v5.5.

I don't think there's anything about it in either book, there's no DVDs on the subject (as far as I know), and relatively little information in the help.

But I certainly wasn't trying to start an argument.

No worries.

BTW, the 3DBuzz content for 9.1/9.5 is new, not like the old stuff from way back. I too wish there were more video training for character articulation and animation. I love being able to play with the sensitive number input via the middle mouse button and hitting really subtle poses. Alt-click to set a key frame is really convenient.

It's these little things that I really like about the possibilities of Houdini for character animation. It would be great if the animators/TDs at C.O.R.E. would release some info. As I understand it, the character animation in The Wild was using Houdini.

[whalerider]

See http://www.andrew-lowell-productions.com/

Do you have any info on that new Houdini book, whalerider?

[ColinCohen]

Chris -- I meant specifically the 3dbuzz rigging tutorials. Without those great bridge-building videos, my learning curve would've been steep indeed. :)

I asked Side Effects' training director if they were considering training for their character tools, and she just wrote back, seemingly quite interested. So, we'll see.

Thanks for the link, whalerider.

[SheepFactory]

I have a quick houdini question. I thought houdini had a browser pane? I was hoping to be able to open up the tutorials\manual in that pane but I cant find it anywhere? Did they remove it?

[Robert Magee]

I have a quick houdini question. I thought houdini had a browser pane? I was hoping to be able to open up the tutorials\manual in that pane but I cant find it anywhere? Did they remove it?

If you are on linux or windows then the ? in the top right corner will bring it up. On the Mac the browser is not embedded but still talks to Houdini - Use Help > Houdini Help to bring it up (this also works on windows/linux to get a floating help pane).

[Robert Magee]

Is the Torque Exporter available if you already have a license of Houdini Apprentice HD, or is it only available for new licenses purchased from GarageGames?

The Apprentice HD being sold on the Garage Games site is the same as the one on the Sidefx site. The exporter is available with both. It is also available with Master and Escape.

[TopherMartini]

The Apprentice HD being sold on the Garage Games site is the same as the one on the Sidefx site. The exporter is available with both. It is also available with Master and Escape.
After reading your post did some RTFM (http://localhost:48626/nodes/out/torque) and saw that the Torque render node is only available for Windows. Thought it wasn't showing up because I bought the wrong version :shrug:

[SoulVector]

the Torque render node is only available for Windows.

Yeah I just read this as well. Hmm.. any specific reason for Windows exclusive Robert?

[Robert Magee]

the Torque render node is only available for Windows.

I will check on that on Monday. We initially put the Torque support in 9.1 for testing. Therefore the Mac version would not have been mentioned. I will clarify for Mac and LINUX.

[benytone]

How are the character animation tools? I know Houdini muscles and cloth built in, but are people animating in another package and then bringing it into Houdini for integration with the dynamics/particles/fx?

On paper (or their websites), most 3d programs seem very capable for character animation. But in 3d world reviews they don't hesitate to say when some of the big names need better CA features.

I personally love cinema 4d rigging tools over houdini/maya/xsi rigging tools...cinema 4d has the best, easiest and fastest rigging/morphing tools...
and i love XSI NLA(non linear animation) over houdini's chop bla,bla......
.
-that’s what I like about houdini ''animatable parameters''
XSI/maya ''Channel Box Keying Panel'' are similar to houdini's animatable parameters window, and these are my favorite hotkeys: shift+t, shift+r, shift+e....hehe

.

[arctor]

It's these little things that I really like about the possibilities of Houdini for character animation. It would be great if the animators/TDs at C.O.R.E. would release some info. As I understand it, the character animation in The Wild was using Houdini.

the biggest problems with training/tutorials in this area is that there aren't many of us who do it and almost all of the people who could create this material are working in production...so have no time...
I'd love to spend 4-5 months on a rigging DVD (start to finish + face rig, some dynamics etc) but who's going to pay my rent? :shrug:

[Phrenzy84]

If SESI paid you as much as you get at CORE, would you leave to make training DVD's? Im not hoping for an answer here, dont want you to make anyone uncomfortable.

But i think SESI should push their training divsion harder. Autodesk does it, but there is so much training on Max and Maya.

But i think a store with SESI training material would really sell.

The thing is how many people who are capable of wielding Houdini would want to make tutorials all day?

Doesnt have to be this way, Gnomon contract people all the time to do DVD's. You could even approach them if you want to make a DVD.

If SESI dont think that this is the right thing to concerntrate on, thats ok, im sure Gnomon wouldnt mind more Houdini content in their library.

btw i would love some riggin stuff.

[Rhs_CG]

the biggest problems with training/tutorials in this area is that there aren't many of us who do it and almost all of the people who could create this material are working in production...so have no time...
I'd love to spend 4-5 months on a rigging DVD (start to finish + face rig, some dynamics etc) but who's going to pay my rent? :shrug:

That's so true, with so few that have the knowledge. If only sesi or gnomon, I even a studio could sponser an artist to put one together.

[Robert Magee]

the walk cycle of leopard is totally wrong...:D

If anyone wants to take a crack at the leopard to create either a better walk cycle or even something more interesting like a leap or attack, we have posted the leopard file to the exchange:

http://www.sidefx.com/exchange/

The file contains the animation and deform rigs. If you animate it then send the file to gallery@sidefx.com, we can add the fur and render.

Robert

[SheepFactory]

If anyone wants to take a crack at the leopard to create either a better walk cycle or even something more interesting like a leap or attack, we have posted the leopard file to the exchange:

http://www.sidefx.com/exchange/

The file contains the animation and deform rigs. If you animate it then send the file to gallery@sidefx.com, we can add the fur and render.

Robert


Sweet this is a nice excuse to play more with houdini for me. :D


By the way Robert how do we report bugs and such? i am using the osx version and encountered a couple.


Edit: By the way is there like a animators quick start guide type thing anywhere? To help animators coming from other apps to quickly get up to speed?

[Robert Magee]

By the way Robert how do we report bugs and such? i am using the osx version and encountered a couple.

Please post bugs here:
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=172&page=viewforum&f=29

By the way is there like a animators quick start guide type thing anywhere? To help animators coming from other apps to quickly get up to speed?

This blog contains some basics about working with channels, posing and setting keys:
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1180&Itemid=241

I want to do another one that has more keyframing and working with the channel editor.

[SoulVector]

I will check on that on Monday. We initially put the Torque support in 9.1 for testing. Therefore the Mac version would not have been mentioned. I will clarify for Mac and LINUX.
Just saw on yesterdays changelog that TorqueROP is now included for Linux and OSX. Very Nice!

Wednesday, July 2, 2008
Houdini 9.5.155: The Torque ROP is now available in builds of Houdini for Linux and OS X. Also, the export menu lists existing instances of the Torque ROP.

[beaker]

This blog contains some basics about working with channels, posing and setting keys:
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1180&Itemid=241Rob: what is the point of having an RSS feed for that blog if it only shows the first sentence of the blog entry(if that)? People use RSS feeds so we have a single place to read all blogs, it is not simply to notify us that the page is updated. We don't want to goto the web page every time to read it.

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