CNN: Washington State bans Anti-Cop Videogames

[bentllama]

stupid. stupid. stupid.

...if some half intelligent kid approaches me in the store and wants me to purchase the Enter the Matrix game for him because he is "underage", I will. done it before, and I will do it again...

this law is stupid, stupid, stupid.

a freeking crutch for piss-poor parenting to fall back on...a scapegoat for mommy and daddy not doing their job...if jimmy wants it, jimmy should get it, and let the parents take it from there...instead of the store playing babysitter...parents need to learn not to shirk their responsibility...

I better not start on a rant, cause things like this really get me raucous...

[FloydBishop]

I wonder how they feel about the game the United States Government gave out for free "American Army"?

While you're not shooting cops, you are hunting down other people in uniforms.

[monotypic]

bentllama: took the words right outta my mouth

[Per-Anders]

i don't see what the problem is. in the uk video games have had ratings since doom came out. it's no different than having a rating for a film, and after all any half decent videogame draws a person in a lot more than a film so i think it's only fair.

you have to remember that the argument "it's up to the parent" also holds true for cigarettes, alcohol, etc, but i don't think that's a sensible reason to remove the age limits on those things, even if there are some unscrupulous clerks who'll hapilly sell that stuff to minors. it's societies job to protect it's members especially those that can't protect themselves, and that doesn't mean just the parents imo.

[deepcgi]

Television affects behavior.

Advertisers have known this for years.

That is why Coke buys time during the Super Bowl.

Video Games are no different.

Why not make the parent purchase the game FOR the kid?

[Hookflash]

I don't understand how shooting cops is any worse than shooting anyone else. I guess it's only ok to shoot people if the "government" gives the green-light (ie, war).

[Indy3]

what they should really ban is hate games

[gmask]

I want a game that allows me to shoot Canadians ;-) Y'know I'm just kidding.. some of my best friends are Canadian.


Every hear that song "blame it on Canada"?


Here's a game idea.. how about a game where you stand outside a video game store and shoot anybody who comes in or out of it. Including presidents , police officers, anybody who is unamerican, little old ladies, small children and any stereotype you might imagine.. there's nothing like a good round of killing anything that moves to end the day with.

[anieves]

Originally posted by deepcgi
Television affects behavior.

Advertisers have known this for years.

That is why Coke buys time during the Super Bowl.

Video Games are no different.
]

I disagree. This is what they want you to belive. just because somebody shows a spot during the superbowl advertising a can of dog shit doesn't make me go out and buy a can of dog shit.

Just because I play a game shooting cops doesn't make me go out and start shooting cops, get real.

[
Why not make the parent purchase the game FOR the kid?

see, that is the logical thing to do, but when have you seen government use logic? polititians care about ONE thing and ONE thing only: RE-ELECTION.

[anieves]

Originally posted by bentllama
stupid. stupid. stupid.

...if some half intelligent kid approaches me in the store and wants me to purchase the Enter the Matrix game for him because he is "underage", I will. done it before, and I will do it again...

this law is stupid, stupid, stupid.

a freeking crutch for piss-poor parenting to fall back on...a scapegoat for mommy and daddy not doing their job...if jimmy wants it, jimmy should get it, and let the parents take it from there...instead of the store playing babysitter...parents need to learn not to shirk their responsibility...

I better not start on a rant, cause things like this really get me raucous...

How about mommy and daddy already said NO? the kid goes over to you and you buy the thing for him without even knowing that the parents did their job. You acted on an assumption and you are teaching a kid nothing but disrespect his/her parents.

How about if the kid wants you to go to the pharmacy and buy syringes for him? would you do it? I wouldn't, I would simply say tell your dad to get them for you.

[coupon]

Brilliant, where's the House UnAmerican Affairs Committee? bring back McCarthy, spose it's good news for modders, soon to be a higher demand for good cop skins. Good to see you all need to be protected from yourselves.

[gmask]

Originally posted by coupon
Brilliant, where's the House UnAmerican Affairs Committee? bring back McCarthy, spose it's good news for modders, soon to be a higher demand for good cop skins. Good to see you all need to be protected from yourselves.

Well they are lots of things that could be disrespected.. is law enforcement one of them. This law does not ban these games but simple is trying to enforce that the vendors of them honor the game rating system.

Is it legal for 13 year olds to buy hardcore pornography in New Zealand? Every country has it's restrictions ..maybe it is ironic that America wants to control what people of a certain age buy on their own. Last time I checked children did not have the same rights as adults..but maybe that shoudl change maybe all child labor laws and laws designed to protect children from abuse should be revoked.

[Joviex]

Originally posted by bentllama
stupid. stupid. stupid.

...if some half intelligent kid approaches me in the store and wants me to purchase the Enter the Matrix game for him because he is "underage", I will. done it before, and I will do it again...

this law is stupid, stupid, stupid.


So even if the law is stupid, you willingly break it instead of using the process afforded you by the people who made this country?

Nice support for the constituion, hope we are never next ot each other in a fox hole.

[coupon]

Nah man it's not legal for 13 yr olds to buy porn here, someone has to pay the isp after all, but it's no less legal to buy porn where the people bumping uglies are dressed up as cops, hisbollah, nuns, judges, politicians, asians, whites, blacks, hasidic jews, cripples or whores I just mean that I don't believe this will have a direct effect on the number of officers killed on duty, I hope I'm wrong, sure. But it could if adopted by other states, possibly other countries have a noticed effect on level of immersion/options for gameplay etc. If say in a CS style FPS, only the CT team could win, or an RTS, only whichever coalition/alignment was in vogue for the Forces of Good™ could possibly win, which while it would reflect the world more honestly wouldn't be much fun after a while -oh look, I'm going to lose again, lets see if i can last 2 mins this time. Sorry but it's just sad to see the restriction of expression that's going on of late.

[gmask]

>>>it's no less legal to buy porn where the people bumping uglies are dressed up as cops, hisbollah, nuns, judges, politicians, asians, whites, blacks, hasidic jews, cripples ..

If you are of age you can buy this stuff and that is all this law is trying to enforce. If you want to find material that has anti police sentiment then it probably would not take too long to find on the internet. Personally I think it should just be an age restriction on graphic violence to be fair to the other games.

>>>I don't believe this will have a direct effect on the number of officers killed on duty, I hope I'm wrong, sure.

It's more of a matter of respect. There was a time when police where given respect be default and sure there have been many incidents but still I have found that you treat an officer with respect and they will give it back to you.

[dark_lotus]

Originally posted by bentllama
stupid. stupid. stupid.

...if some half intelligent kid approaches me in the store and wants me to purchase the Enter the Matrix game for him because he is "underage", I will. done it before, and I will do it again...

this law is stupid, stupid, stupid.

a freeking crutch for piss-poor parenting to fall back on...a scapegoat for mommy and daddy not doing their job...if jimmy wants it, jimmy should get it, and let the parents take it from there...instead of the store playing babysitter...parents need to learn not to shirk their responsibility...

I better not start on a rant, cause things like this really get me raucous...

Here, here, well spoken Bruce!

[gmask]

Originally posted by dark_lotus
Here, here, well spoken Bruce!


"...if some half intelligent kid approaches me in the store and wants me to ____ him because he is "underage", I will. done it before, and I will do it again...

this law is stupid, stupid, stupid.

a freeking crutch for piss-poor parenting to fall back on...a scapegoat for mommy and daddy not doing their job...if jimmy wants ___, jimmy should get ___, and let the parents take it from there...instead of the store playing babysitter...parents need to learn not to shirk their responsibility..."

Is there anything else Jimmy should be allowed have if Jimmy wants it? Bruce you should stay away from others people's children.

[coupon]

Jimmy wants the AWP so he can be as L337 IRL

[Hookflash]

Originally posted by anieves
How about mommy and daddy already said NO? the kid goes over to you and you buy the thing for him without even knowing that the parents did their job. You acted on an assumption and you are teaching a kid nothing but disrespect his/her parents.

How about if the kid wants you to go to the pharmacy and buy syringes for him? would you do it? I wouldn't, I would simply say tell your dad to get them for you.

If Mommy & Daddy already said no, they should take appropriate action when they find him with the game. The point is, it's the parents job to monitor and censor their child's sources of entertainment. I don't pay taxes so that the government can tell me and my children how to think.

[Hookflash]

Originally posted by Indy3
what they should really ban is hate games

Why? Is hate not a valid emotion? Am I not allowed to have hateful thoughts? I am very opposed to this sort of censorship. People should be allowed to form whatever opinions they choose, including hateful ones. If they act innappropriately on those opinions, *then* (and only then) they have broken the law, as far as I'm concerned.

[ragecgi]

Originally posted by mdme_sadie
...it's societies job to protect it's members especially those that can't protect themselves, and that doesn't mean just the parents imo.

PLEASE forgive me if I misread you, but are you saying that I'm supposed to care for YOUR bratty-ass, disrespecting kids???

( figuratively speaking of course, you rock mdme_sadie:) )

No problem! I'll BEAT THIER ASSES just like my parents did to me!
That's what they want right?

Now that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy now doesn't it?
Knowing that charlie manson, and the Branch davidians are out there taking care of your kids:) I can feel the love.

That's all I hear in this stupid state of Minnesota,
"Hey! Watch my kids because I'm too retarded to watch them myself!"

Sure... no problem:)

Hey little girl.... want some candy? boohahaha!

Think about it folks, it will NEVER change unless martial-law is declared.

Kids can by drugs and firearms on the fricken playground.
Video games are no different.

If they want them bad enough, they'll get em.

After all..... we did:)

Heck, we all grew up on the MOST VIOLENT and RACIST cartoons KNOWN TO MAN, and yet our poor childeren are somehow WEAKER-MINDED than we are?

That's fricken INSULTING!

...makes me wanna go steal a cane from some old lady and beat a cripple with it.

OR, I could SIMPLY use a little thing my parents taught me called "SELF-CONTROL" and respect for others and myself, and be a good little boy and go out and eat McDonalds like the rest of us in the USA!

whew .... ...now... where did my crackpipe and my copy of Matrix Reloaded get too?......

awwww!! dang it little joey!!! not again!!! put that down!!!

hehe...

[Per-Anders]

why does this have to decend to hackneyed politicism? sorry, the move is just sensible imo. aside from the fact that these games probably shouldn't be sold to minor's anyway ignoring the cop shooting element i have no problem with measures being taken to get rid of this frankly perverse attitude that cops are the enemy. the concept is underlined in so much media, and hell it's fine to be outspoken against something if you've got due logical reason, but to base prejudice on such dogmatism is ****ed up.

and on the subject of what the governments role is... it is to maintain cohesion and stability of society. i'm sorry but that does involve controlling the media and maintining civility and acceptable behaviour from it's citizens... where do you even think these words come from? policeman, politician. their only payoff is to maintain the illusion of freedom of speech and thought, but in truth there is no such thing, and rightly so, i don't want to live in anarchy.

[Per-Anders]

Originally posted by ragecgi
PLEASE forgive me if I misread you, but are you saying that I'm supposed to care for YOUR bratty-ass, disrespecting kids???

( figuratively speaking of course, you rock mdme_sadie:) )

No problem! I'll BEAT THIER ASSES just like my parents did to me!
That's what they want right?

Now that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy now doesn't it?
Knowing that charlie manson, and the Branch davidians are out there taking care of your kids:) I can feel the love.

That's all I hear in this stupid state of Minnesota,
"Hey! Watch my kids because I'm too retarded to watch them myself!"

Sure... no problem:)

Hey little girl.... want some candy? boohahaha!

Think about it folks, it will NEVER change unless martial-law is declared.

Kids can by drugs and firearms on the fricken playground.
Video games are no different.

If they want them bad enough, they'll get em.

After all..... we did:)

Heck, we all grew up on the MOST VIOLENT and RACIST cartoons KNOWN TO MAN, and yet our poor childeren are somehow WEAKER-MINDED than we are?

That's fricken INSULTING!

...makes me wanna go steal a cane from some old lady and beat a cripple with it.

OR, I could SIMPLY use a little thing my parents taught me called "SELF-CONTROL" and respect for others and myself, and be a good little boy and go out and eat McDonalds like the rest of us in the USA!

whew .... ...now... where did my crackpipe and my copy of Matrix Reloaded get too?......

awwww!! dang it little joey!!! not again!!! put that down!!!

hehe...

no, i never said the parents had no responsibility. but just because you can't imagine a society where it's safe for children ot play out on their own in front of the house doesn't mean it didn't exist when i was a kid, nor that it can't exist again.

this is not about absolving anyone from responsibility, in fact quite the opposite. it's the parents and societies job. but a parent cannot feasibly be with their kid 24/7 till they reach the age of 18. that's why it's a messed up argument "oh it's the parents fault". that's as stupid as saying "it's all societies fault". they're both excuses, i don't have time for excuses. parent's are a part of society, those kids elder brothers and sisters, friends etc are a part of society, the media is a part of society... it's well known that it's not the parents who bring up kids but their peers... how you going to control that? it's not possible unless you enforce levels of accepteable behaviour. deviancy from societies norms and values will always be here, but when societies norms and values of behaviour towards others are so different from the individuals norms and values of accepteable behaviour towards themselves then something is very very messed up indeed.

a child has many external influences outside of the family unit. a parent has a limited ammount of access and control over these external influences, who is willing to claim that they never did anything against their parents wishes? why the double standard there then? to claim that this is all the parents fault is non-sensical.

and when it comes down to it yes, you are expected to look after my bratty assed kids (if i had any). that's the price of being a part of society. you want it's benefits, you have to play your part.

[deepcgi]

I worked in the advertising business on Madison Avenue for years. I'm telling you...advertising on television affects behavior. While it is unlikely that you could convince someone to eat dog crap, you could probably convince people that siberian husky poo is a pretty wise investment as a gardening product.

When we ran well executed campaigns for frivilous sugary beverages the client sold a lot more of it.

I'm certain that video games affect behavior as well. In what ways is certainly disputable. It would be naive, however, to assume that impressionable children are not being negatively impacted by over-indulgent violent games.

[FloydBishop]

In Nazi Germany, no one played video games.

[deepcgi]

Ah...Hitler!

I would definitely have made him an account executive on the Coke account. There's a man who understood manipulation of the consumer's mind.

I guarrantee he would have used video games to convince people Jews were evil.

[Per-Anders]

Originally posted by Floyd Bishop
In Nazi Germany, no one played video games.

oh man... sure they didn't... wanna know something else freaky? not all germans were evil! woah, who'da thought it eh? not only that, but the german kids weren't all socialist fascists (well any more than kids anywhere else in the world).

[gmask]

Originally posted by coupon
Jimmy wants the AWP so he can be as L337 IRL

Huh?

[Chewey]

I'd be a lot happier if the Washington state politicians would address the flaws of their current laws and system that makes it possible for level 3 sex offenders to escape with ease from the facilities they are supposed to be confined to. Just another goofy law from the goons that are screwing up this state.


:thumbsdow

[gmask]

Originally posted by Chewey
I'd be a lot happier if the Washington state politicians would address the flaws of their current laws and system that makes it possible for level 3 sex offenders to escape with ease from the facilities they are supposed to be confined to.


That's a good point because you definately don't want those kind of people wandering around hanging out where your kids hang out and enabling children to disobey their parents.

Of course if those individuals were actually getting treatment while in jail and when out of jail then maybe there would be fewer repeat offenders.

[Chewey]

Originally posted by gmask
That's a good point because you definately don't want those kind of people wandering around hanging out where your kids hang out and enabling children to disobey their parents.

Of course if those individuals were actually getting treatment while in jail and when out of jail then maybe there would be fewer repeat offenders.

I'd be very careful about stepping in the way of the law especially where it involves adults and the under aged.
If I were here on a work visa/permit the last thing I'd care to do is jeopardize my ability to continue staying employed by doing something indiscreet.

In this state those sex offenders aren't confined in "jails" for the entire length of their internment. Level 3 sex offenders are for the most part considered to be untreatable.
Check it out.

[FloydBishop]

Originally posted by mdme_sadie
oh man... sure they didn't... wanna know something else freaky? not all germans were evil! woah, who'da thought it eh? not only that, but the german kids weren't all socialist fascists (well any more than kids anywhere else in the world).

That's why I said "Nazi Germany". It was supposed to be a joke anyhow, since videogames weren't around back then.

:shrug:

[gmask]

>>>I'd be very careful about stepping in the way of the law especially where it involves adults and the under aged.

The first thing I would do if I found my child with a game that they weren't supposed to have is find out who helped them get it and then press charges if there were any to press or least find that person and give them a good piece of my mind.

It's unclear in the article as to what kind of penalities might be associated with helping a minor buy a game but you definately don't want the INS checking you out for doing such a thing. IMO if the person helping the minor buy the game is not the legal guardian of the minor then they should also be fined.

[gmask]

Originally posted by Floyd Bishop
That's why I said "Nazi Germany". It was supposed to be a joke anyhow, since videogames weren't around back then.


Didn't make me laugh...

They didn't have video games but there was propaganda although supposedly the films that were made as propaganda against the Jews was not widely seen and most of the German population were not aware of the atrocities.

But since we are on the subject .. wether or not the violence in a game is hate related at some point it becomes at least in poor taste to make light of murdering those in our society who at best are there to protect and serve.

[Per-Anders]

Originally posted by Floyd Bishop
That's why I said "Nazi Germany". It was supposed to be a joke anyhow, since videogames weren't around back then.

:shrug:

yeah, ok i'm sorry for going off, but so often i hear "in nazi germany" used in these sorts of arguments as some form of excuse that really makes no sense, for exactly what i said, in germany under the Nazi regime were kids particually more horrible than anywhere else in the world at that time? more interestingly were they any more horrible than kids today?

[ragecgi]

Originally posted by mdme_sadie
....and when it comes down to it yes, you are expected to look after my bratty assed kids (if i had any). that's the price of being a part of society. you want it's benefits, you have to play your part.

LOL!!! whew... I thought you were going to kik ma booty for blabbing my mouth off like that:)

That was a GREAT, and VERY intelligent response mdme_sadie!
I agree totally with you.

That leads me to my last point that I've always struggled with, ever since I was exposed to this issue:

..and please don't hate me G-mask for using your words as the example, but your post made me remember it:
The first thing I would do if I found my child with a game that they weren't supposed to have is find out who helped them get it and then press charges if there were any to press or least find that person and give them a good piece of my mind.

I agree with this as well, and I would do the same, however, my problem is what if the father of my future kid's friend decides to haul-off and beat the crap out of them?

I know we are geting WAY OT here but, you just never know who might be the next Chucky Manson, but that thought is in the back of everyone's mind in those types of situations I think.

My point is, you can never get the general public to agree on what is the "best" form of control, and/or punishment of another family's child because everyone has been raised diferently.

I don't really have an answer, but I jus though I would put that point out there because it's always my first thought about this kindof thing...

...I guess that's where trust comes into play, but that darn "loose-cannon" variable is what scares me a bit I guess...

[bentllama]

Originally posted by ragecgi
My point is, you can never get the general public to agree on what is the "best" form of control, and/or punishment of another family's child because everyone has been raised diferently.

agreed.

and with that I think this thread has run its course...

[gmask]

Originally posted by ragecgi


I agree with this as well, and I would do the same, however, my problem is what if the father of my future kid's friend decides to haul-off and beat the crap out of them?



I wouldn't do that but if it happened then would it because of video game violence or because some people don't know when to mind their own business??

[Chewey]

fwiw, it should be noted that this fine legislation is being brought to you courtesy of the forward thinking democrat party.:rolleyes:

[ragecgi]

Originally posted by gmask
I wouldn't do that but if it happened then would it because of video game violence or because some people don't know when to mind their own business??

Very true as well.

...man, this is a deep issue.

[gmask]

>>>...man, this is a deep issue.

Somebody mentioned earlier that that the generation that didn't grow up with viiolent videgames grewup with cartoons like Bugs Bunny, Roadrunner and shows like the Three Stooges.

I still have a hard time comparing that to some of the act sof violence in these games. I liked playing my Atari but it never gave me a rush or changed my temperment liek some of the games I've played in the last 5 years or so. Maybe i have changed... but I have to wonder what the threshold is.. will someday fetus be involved in pre-natal car chases.

Because eventually whacking protsitutes and shooting cops in the face won't be as exciting as it used to be.

[Dezzo]

since most of the better games have came from the US, i have noticed that there is a obligation for game producing companies there to produce games that do not have a "mature" rating.

it's only logical that if you produce games that have "teen" or "general" ratings, u get better sales because more people buy can them

However, Rockstar games and as well as Interplay (publishers of games like Fallout) in recent years, produced games with Mature rating irregardless.

however, given this new law, we might see a further change in the gaming industry.

if i'm not wrong, i read somewhere months before, that they were going to ban games that contain violence of any sort. I think this is the first step towards that direction. We'll see more regulations for games in the near future because the gaming industry have been largely untouched by censorship.

it's a shame that this would happen but look at it this way, no kid below the age of 16 should be playing "Mature" rated games anyway because such games can be too graphic.

anybody knows where do kids get the ideas to do school shootings? Well, experts says the violence in games (eg. Counterstrike) encourage or give them such ideas.

however, bans that prevent kids from buying "Mature" games doesn't mean they can't get them. Look at cigarettes, there are kids in my country below the age of 15 smoking in public and my country is suppose to have one of the toughest smoking laws in the world.

what i'm really concerned is that game making companies will stop making entertaining games for adults/young adults because of such laws or future laws like this.

i shudder the thought that the shelves of gaming shops be filled with games like Lion King: Samba goes shopping or Medal of Honor: No gore, guns, knifes, explosives edition.

Booo! with censorship!

[wgreenlee1]

If these kids spent as much time reading classical litature and studying ancient art as they do playing fantasy games the world might be just a wee be better off.....from a cultural stand point.


End of rant # 156261529105200-1.5a

[Per-Anders]

that's true, but then i wouldn't be able to keep my air of smug superiority...

Bart: Nothing you say can upset us, we're the MTV generation.
Lisa: We feel neither highs nor lows.
Homer: Really, what's it like?
Lisa (shrugs): Eh...

[WazaR]

Hmmm... Soooo..... Its not ok to fight cops but ok to kill clearly uniformed and identified Iraqi ifantry men? Germans are also ok to blow up, as are members of Japanesse and Italian Military services. Hey and dont forget the good old cold war days when Russians were the de-facto target. (of course least we forget the #2 de-facto target latinos which being all narcos are therefore ok to kill) And speaking about it hey, why not include France on the list of people thats its ok to kill, they've been "acting" up lately.

Look,....age ratings ok, you want to keep kids from buyings games that may be to raw for them ( what a silly concept.....hmmmm if "bad" games make people go crazy, why arnt we all forced to play disney games 6 hours a day! it would solve all the worlds propblems!!!) ....fine. Age ratings are acceptable. But to ban a game strictly because the political setting it presents is "uncomfortable", to ban something because it puts the powers that be in a "bad" light, to ban because it opens the door to thinking against the established order
....well....I know of an Iraqi citezin that would completely agree with you.(go figure, of all games, Matrix is the prime target. 'no one' saw that coming hehehe. Agent Smith is real)

hmmm....and then gringos ask why people around the world dont trust the US message. You try and sell them on a beautiful new demoracy, heh, but when they turn CNN on they see a VERY differnt story. YOU CANT HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO.

[Neil]

Originally i would agree with Bentlamma and buy a game if the kid in the store wanted it, but after considering what Gmask said how if parent don't want them to have it, then i should respect their opinion. (unless it's something like mario being too violent, i would have to disagree).
Besides if i buy it and then the parents find it, they will just throw it away right? So what did that accomplish...

In terms of video games affecting actions, sometimes when i'm in heavy traffic i get the desire to ride up on the sidewalk and say f*ck it. But of course i never do, but i wonder if i would have had that fantasy if i hadn't "gotten away" with it in GTA.

[gmask]

>>>Hmmm... Soooo..... Its not ok to fight cops but ok to kill clearly uniformed and identified Iraqi ifantry men?

I guess it depends on wether or not the infrantry men are trying to surrender, run away or fire back. This is really a lame comparison. I also feel that games that would make a stereotype of Iraqi's being brutalized should not be on the market at all. There is however such a game but it manages to equally involve all nations that have known terrorists so I guess that's fair in that it does not hold one country as a stereotype for terrorists.. although I can't recall if included midwestern bumkins militia men with van loads of fertelizer bombs or not.

Or maybe because the idea that some US citizen's want to try to preserve some kind of morality or respect of those who serve and protect is somehow contrary to the perception that some have of the country due to current events. Don't forget that not everybody here was for it or voted for the current president yet when they protest they still have do it in a orderly fashion or face charges of civil disobedience. Maybe somebody should make a game where you can mow down protesters for any cause you can think of for or against.. that'd be fair.

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by WazaR
Hmmm... Soooo..... Its not ok to fight cops but ok to kill clearly uniformed and identified Iraqi ifantry men? Germans are also ok to blow up, as are members of Japanesse and Italian Military services. Hey and dont forget the good old cold war days when Russians were the de-facto target. (of course least we forget the #2 de-facto target latinos which being all narcos are therefore ok to kill) And speaking about it hey, why not include France on the list of people thats its ok to kill, they've been "acting" up lately.

*sigh* Are you honestly trying to compare the actions of soldiers at war to those of common cop-killing criminals? Gimme a break. First of all, cops are here to serve the community and keep it safe from crime not to defend (or invade) a country from opposing forces. This law is not saying that it's "OK" to kill anybody, it's just an attempt at keeping the notion that cop-killing is ok out of the minds of kids. I'm sure it will lead to the restriction of sales all graphic (or M-rated) games regardless of whether your killing Nazis or cops.

Originally posted by WazaR
Look,....age ratings ok, you want to keep kids from buyings games that may be to raw for them ( what a silly concept.....hmmmm if "bad" games make people go crazy, why arnt we all forced to play disney games 6 hours a day! it would solve all the worlds propblems!!!) ....fine. Age ratings are acceptable. But to ban a game strictly because the political setting it presents is "uncomfortable", to ban something because it puts the powers that be in a "bad" light, to ban because it opens the door to thinking against the established order
....well....I know of an Iraqi citezin that would completely agree with you.(go figure, of all games, Matrix is the prime target. 'no one' saw that coming hehehe. Agent Smith is real)

*BIG SIGH* This is NOT a ban, it's a law that simply limits the sale of such games to those of a certain age. Your little rant about banning the games for some "political setting it presents" is ridiculous. Like I said this is not a ban, the games are still going to be available, but if a kid under 17 wants it, he has to get his Mommy or Daddy to buy it for him. It's the same as if the kid wanted to go and buy porn. It's illegal for him to do so, but anyone old enough is still free to.

Originally posted by WazaR
hmmm....and then gringos ask why people around the world dont trust the US message. You try and sell them on a beautiful new demoracy, heh, but when they turn CNN on they see a VERY differnt story. YOU CANT HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO.

*ENORMOUS SIGH* OK I get it. You clearly know that this law is not a ban, but an age restriction. Yet you continue to talk about the "ban" issue so you can launch some ludicrous ill-informed diatribe against the US. How PC of you. lmfao. Dude, what does US foreign policy have to do with a domestic issue such as an age limit on violent games? Oh right, nothing. You're just using this issue to take some cheap shot against the US. BTW, calling Americans "gringos" is the same as calling Mexicans "wetbacks" so please refrain from the offensive comments, it doesnt help your already weak argument. :rolleyes:

[bentllama]

IDSA To Challenge Washington State Law

In a report from Reuters today, The Interactive Digital Software Association (IDSA) stated that it would challenge the bill signed yesterday by Washington State Gov. Gary Locke, in court.

The bill makes it illegal to sell or rent video games to minors (under the age of 17) that depict violence against police officers. The IDSA says that the bill violates the right to free speech and would go to court to put an injunction on the enforcement of the bill. Here is a quote from the report:

"If the goal is to keep games out of the hands of kids for whom they are not appropriate ... then the answer is to focus on parental education and awareness of the (ratings system), not to try to turn retailers into parents," IDSA President Doug Lowenstein said in a statement.

GO IDSA!!!!

[Per-Anders]

well put grmac :)

[Per-Anders]

Originally posted by bentllama

"If the goal is to keep games out of the hands of kids for whom they are not appropriate ... then the answer is to focus on parental education and awareness of the (ratings system), not to try to turn retailers into parents," IDSA President Doug Lowenstein said in a statement.

GO IDSA!!!!

i.e. they want to absolve themselves of all responsibility, and excuse their own lax behaviour. i love the "freedom of speech" laws in the US... they're such a gag.

[bix]

Here's my 2 cents....

Violence is Violene is Violence.

Althouth there are shades of gray to it and the level of violence for a mature rated game should be deserving, but to say that just killing cops is bad, but throwing molotov cocktails on people is alright (GTA3)? What kind of mesage does that send to our kids?

btw...., I haven't heard movie ratings brought up entirely enough in this, and this is the closest parallel I could find to this.

And what's with all the talk of banning violent video games? I was just watching my fine local Eugene OR news and it quoted the average gamer's age at 28. Completely banning these games would cut a huge market out.

[Per-Anders]

there's no talk of banning them... except strangely here... read GRMacs post above.

and yup it's all bad, but this is merely the government trying to enforce that retailers and games manufacturers abide by the law regarding ratings. which clearly they're not if games depicting graphic violence are freely available through their outlets to children under the age limit.

[gmask]

>>>The IDSA says that the bill violates the right to free speech


That is if you want to throw the concept of common decency out of the window.. Freedom of speech for example does not protect all ideas.. in that we will thankfully never see the "KKK channel" or or maybe the game industry could profit from a game called "White Power" or even the "Black Panther Cop Kill a Thon".

There are limits to what types of speech can be foisted upon the public. Basically messages of hate are not tolerated and I can see not redeeming value to defending the right to kill cops in video games. I would be really interested in hearing an explanation of the virtues of doing so.

People commit all sorts of dumb and briutal acts of violence every day for no reason and it destroys their lives and the lives of others who are related to those who are senselessly murdered.. is this funny, is it a game to these people in real life? Is this what passes for entertainment for the average american kid.. I think it is kind of sick and it crosses the line of fantasy role playing and into sadistic mindless gratutious violence. If this is somebodies idea of entertainment then let's start showing executions on TV. let's punish criminals with public hangings, bad emplyees should be reprimanded with corporal punishment in front of their co-workers.

The attitude coming from the IDSA is irresponsible, self endulgent and self centered. They are scrambling to protect their profits not the quality of their content and not their reputations as artists. Sure this may not be the only example of such lobbying in the country. In comparison to many it is one that is weak and it will be interesting to see if any one gives a crap about wether or not minors can buy games depicting cops being murdered. If kids want to read Tom Clancy books then all means please do.. they would at least be reading. Yeah save freedom of speech we need more cop murdering violence in the household go IDSA! Yeah go team IDSA kill more cops!

[Chewey]

Originally posted by bentllama
snip...

"If the goal is to keep games out of the hands of kids for whom they are not appropriate ... then the answer is to focus on parental education and awareness of the (ratings system), not to try to turn retailers into parents," IDSA President Doug Lowenstein said in a statement.

GO IDSA!!!!

How about this,

"If the goal is to keep alcoholic beverages out of the hands of kids for whom they are not appropriate ... then the answer is to focus on parental education and awareness of the dangers of alcohol, not to try to turn retailers into parents,"

oh yeah, that makes for a convincing argument.

:applause:

I'm more disgusted with the "let's just do something" approach and the socialist mentality that WA state politicians take toward "protecting" it's sheeple with limp and feckless laws.
While Boeing and Microsoft make plans to escape from the punitive atmosphere that WA state has fostered against businesses is this the most important matter for the legislators to be focusing on?

Even liberal California took a pass at this type of legislation.:thumbsdow

[bix]

“People commit all sorts of dumb and brutal acts of violence every day for no reason and it destroys their lives and the lives of others who are related to those who are senselessly murdered.. is this funny, is it a game to these people in real life?”

If MURDERERS kill people and they think it’s a “game” then they have some serious issues, other than they “might be persuaded by a video game.” Is this statement to make me believe that there is a clear link between kids who buy a game with violence in it and murders?

It takes us back to the concept of is society violent because of media portrayals of violence, or is media a reflection of violence in society. If we lived in a nonviolent society where people didn’t want to see violence and shunned upon it, there would be no market for violent movies or games, and if there was no money I can guarantee there would be none made.

Sorry I got off topic again,… my main point with this is with the specific wording of the law in that it only prohibits violence on police officers, what if “school teacher shootout” came out on the same day? Would it send the intended message if a kid went to go buy the matrix game, but was told they couldn’t,…… but “school teacher shootout” was on sale. If our kids are as impressionable as some of you think they are what message does that send?

[gmask]

>>"If the goal is to keep alcoholic beverages out of the hands of kids for whom they are not appropriate ... then the answer is to focus on parental education and awareness of the dangers of alcohol, not to try to turn retailers into parents,"

Personally I tried to avoid comparisons to drugs and alcohol.. a better comparison is pornography. If it were up to businesses they'd sell kids anything they wanted. For example credit card compaies ar enow trying to market towards kids. There are groups trying to stop this? Why because kids do not have good judgement and even though their parents may try to teach them good values the greed of companies who want to exploit children will if left unchecked overwelm the good intentions of good parents.

>>>I'm more disgusted with the "let's just do something" approach and the socialist mentality that WA state politicians take toward "protecting" it's sheeple with limp and feckless laws.

LOL.. socialism.. the funny thing is that I'm hearing alot of outcry about this law from people who live in for lack of a better word socialist countries.

Given the option which would I rather have.. funding for education or a national health care program or the prohibition of cop games being sold to minors.. I'd take health or education but levy a tax on games :thumbsup:

[gmask]

>>>Is this statement to make me believe that there is a clear link between kids who buy a game with violence in it and murders?

That's not what I said is it? All I'm saying that in real life there is nothing funny about violence is there? Do you think cops being murdered is funny? Is it funny that impoverished children get fatal headwounds due to a stray bullets from some gang banger's illegal handgun? No! none of these things are funny so why is it so popular and worth defending for minors to play these games?

>>>If we lived in a nonviolent society where people didn’t want to see violence and shunned upon it, there would be no market for violent movies or games, and if there was no money I can guarantee there would be none made.

It is sort of the chicken or the egg scenario.. where did it begin? Who knows. Isn't this law all about shunting what a certain portion of the population feels is enough? .. that this is going over a line for their standards in their community? There is allways money in exploitation but that in itself does not justify taking advantage of human nature for bloodlust and violence..more likely it fuels the hunger for it.

>>>Sorry I got off topic again,… my main point with this is with the specific wording of the law in that it only prohibits violence on police officers, what if “school teacher shootout” came out on the same day?

A point that I was trying to make earlier is that games that have no concept of decency such as the game you describe should not be made at least not commerically. I will put this out there.. if the issue is freedom of expression then Modders should feel free to make said games.. that in my opinion is freedom expression but commercial exploitation is fueled by greed not by artistic commentary. Again I will ask for an explantion of what is accomplished artistically by making games with extreme violence?

You can also call out that there is allready extreme violence in television and to a certain degree that is true but usually there is moral to the story or a least story period. If someone tried to broadcast a series tv show where the hero is a rapist and a cop killer who gets away would very likely not have any advertisers and get pulled ASAP if indeed it actually made it to air.

I'm not saying that every story has to have a happy ending or that all art has to have meaning but impressionable minds are being exposed to what I would consider vacous violent fluff. If you were to eat cheesy puffs all your life surely it would effect your health likewise a steady diet of violence and pornography probably isn't the best thing for a growing mind.

I'd like to see some of these kids that everyone thinks should have the right to play these games would do in real life scenarios.. I'd like to see them work on a farm or scaling a mountain or working with their hands creating rather than destroying. There are things in life that you can do and look back on and be proud of.

Wasting your teen years playing video games is not really one of them although some will make a career of it. I can only imagine that to some that this is hard to wrap their mind around.. a world with out video games!! Jeez what about a world without violent games.. I guess those minds aren't very creative if that is the only form of entertainment that is worth focusing on.

[bentllama]

Originally posted by gmask
I'd like to see some of these kids that everyone thinks should have the right to play these games would do in real life scenarios.. I'd like to see them work on a farm or scaling a mountain or working with their hands creating rather than destroying. There are things in life that you can do and look back on and be proud of.

wow. I guess I am an exception then. grew up working on a farm, playing video games all my life, while listening to devil music and practicing martial arts...

...now it is my career to make games...I have a very good career and am starting a family...I am one sick individual aren't I? damn those games. damn them to hell... just look at what they did to me!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: [/sarcasm]

[gmask]

Originally posted by bentllama
wow. I guess I am an exception then. grew up working on a farm, playing video games all my life, while listening to devil music and practicing martial arts...

...now it is my career to make games...I am holding down a very good job and starting a family...I am one sick individual aren't I? damn those games. damn them to hell... just look at what they did to me!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: [/sarcasm]

I said there would be exceptions.. I mean who ever thought Larry Flynt would eventually acheive his goal of getting gold plated wheelchair.

Don't ask me my opinion of wether or not I think you are a sick individual.. I'm likely to tell you ;-) :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: [/sarcasm]

Instead of hanging out a video game stores pimping violent video games how about actually mentoring a child. One who is underprivaledgeed and maybe doesn't have parents or would your idea of mentoring be to buy them violent video games and porn.. that is if that's what they wanted? Or would you take them to a martial arts class and to a farm and try to help them to have some experiences that are more wholesome than what one can find in front of the boob tube?

To me it sounds like you were fortunate.. you probably had loving parents. You should have grown up with some values and you probably know what it is like to work a hard day using you hands and to accomplish something worthwhile .. but many of the kids that you insist must get whatever they ask for are spoiled and lazy or underprivaledged or unparented and for the most part are baby sat by games and television which in comparison to being in a gang may seem like not such a big deal but not really a substitute for anythgn with substance.

Again.. I'll ask what is so freaking expressive about games where cops are murdered.. what is it? What's the big deal?.. why do you think that is fun? You are an adult now.. it's little late to still be actingout the whole teenage rebellion scenario.

[Chewey]

For those profess to be concerned about censorship, take a look at the real deal taking place in the public schools. Text books won't be allowed to use certain words and terms that are common to our daily utilization of the english language.

Here are just a few...

yacht
founding fathers
he
elderly
fat
and many many others that have been deemed offensive

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,85594,00.html

Newspeak anyone?

[BiTMAP]

This does sound like a retarded law... and sadly their isn't much people can do. I don't think the law is retarded becuase it says you can't kill cops, but becuase its just another step to complete and total bland and generic games that do not offend anyone. (Farinheit 451 anyone? ).

The thing is, canada has had censorship things for like ever on games and such, however I have never not been able to get the game i wanted... (mind you legaly too).

[gmask]

Originally posted by BiTMAP
This does sound like a retarded law... and sadly their isn't much people can do. I don't think the law is retarded becuase it says you can't kill cops, but becuase its just another step to complete and total bland and generic games that do not offend anyone. (Farinheit 451 anyone? ).


Let's just be clear about this.. this law does not ban the making of these games or dictate what they can or can't put in the game. It only says that you cannot sell them to minors... It is no different than saying you cannot sell Hustler magazine to children or perhaps you feel that is silly law as well? Of course minors who wish to get Hustler magazine will and do but I can't think of a single time I have ever hear dof anyone throwing up their arm sin distress that minors could not buy pronography. (there have been many disputes over what's constitues pornography but that is a seperate issue) I think that the shortcomings of this restriction is that it is too specific and caters to one group.

Now on the other hand the censoring of certain words from schoolbook texts is absurd and is also catering to special interest groups and really has no correlation to the values of a particular state or community.

BTW states are allowed to make laws that respect that's state's values.

The Dixie Chicks for example used their notority to get out there a message and the result was the destruction of piles of their CD's. The message still got out there.. it as not blocked or deleted or prevented. Is it censorship that radio stations stopped playing their records? If so then I have music that I made that is not getting played on the radio.. I want my music to be played on mainstream radio.

If the citizens of Washington state don't want cop killer games to be sold to minors that have the right not to. Those who are so righteous to call out against this should vote more often..too bad Canadians can't vote in US state elections :rolleyes: .

If this is really all that important to you then protest it in public. Simply helping children to get the games or obtaining them illegally really does nothing to change the law. It is a impotent maneuver.

Still though no-one here can tell me why protecting this particular example of gratitious violence is so important or give a single explanation of what the artist is trying to say. Why is that? I think it is because there is nothing behind it except that violence sells games.

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by gmask
Still though no-one here can tell me why protecting this particular example of gratitious violence is so important or give a single explanation of what the artist is trying to say. Why is that? I think it is because there is nothing behind it except that violence sells games.

As I've said earlier, I agree with the law. Only because I understand that some of these games can be very graphic and we all know how impressionable children can be, especially if they don't have a good up-bringing. However, I have to diagree with your claim that these games have no artistic value. First of all, you can't neccessarily define art (or "artistic value") in the first place, so I'm not even going to attempt to answer that aspect of it. However, you do realize that violence is a natural human instinct, right? People need a way to work out this inner frustration in a way that isn't harmful to others. Whether that means playing GTA and beating some virtual heads, putting on the gloves and hitting the heavy bag, or going for an 8-mile run is (and should be) up to the individual. The same goes for sex, another natural human instinct. It's a natural human response to relieve this sexual tension. Now whether that means hitting the heavy bag, getting to it with your wife or girlfriend, or simply whacking it to the latest issue of Hustler, is again up to the individual. This is why I am against the banning of these games is because they provide a harmless outlet for human emotions, no matter how primal they seem, they lie inside all of us and should be addressed in harmless ways such as these. However, I do think the regulation of such games isn't a bad thing because like I've said earlier, if you don't allow children to buy porn, why allow them to buy something which contains such graphic violence? In fact if had the choice between my kid seeing a naked woman or a murder, I'd opt for the naked woman. But that's another debate.

[gmask]

>>>However, I have to diagree with your claim that these games have no artistic value. First of all, you can't neccessarily define art (or "artistic value") in the first place, so I'm not even going to attempt to answer that aspect of it.

I'm not saying that all games are viod of artisitic value but I wil not grant that all do. The NEA decided that they did not wish to fund projects such as piss christ but I can assure you that critics could provide you with reams of support for it's artistic statement.

I loved the movie A Clockwork Orange not because it is a movie with extreme viopolence but because it has many levels of meaning. It is possible to re-examine that movie numerous ways.

However you you flip through a stack of pron mags you can decide well the female form is beautiful and that's about it. What c
kind of meaning can be extracting from watching one gorey act of violence after the other? Death is cool?

All I'm looking for is for one person who is in the industry to say something like well we decided to show police being brutalized because that is what today's teenagers view as the typical authority figure to rebel against.

Having been one once myself I know what that is like and somehow I learned that not fearing them is the best way to not get into trouble especially when you haven't done anything wrong. I knew guys that would run at the mere sight of a cop.

I think a really inventive game might explore these ideas but I guess that is not enough of an outlet for today's kids or have they just been groomed to be responsive to this kind of gameplay only.

Growing up as an adreneline junkie is not healthy and to deal with reality you have to at some point direct that energy towards creating.

>>>However, you do realize that violence is a natural human instinct, right?

Sure but those instincts are blind.. IE they should not be directed towards police or women for that matter. Monster violence is at least imaginative.

I have to question though how much of an outlet games are in comparison to excercise .. I would defiantely go with excercise as being the healthier outlet. I guess that explains why prisoner's are allowed to weight train instead of playing video games. Although I have negative feelings toward sprisonor's becoming physically stronger.

>>>It's a natural human response to relieve this sexual tension. Now whether that means hitting the heavy bag, getting to it with your wife or girlfriend, or simply whacking it to the latest issue of Hustler, is again up to the individual.

This is a touchy subject but if that were true then you could simply give some porn mags to sex offenders and not worry about them acting out their problems in reality.

>>> In fact if had the choice between my kid seeing a naked woman or a murder, I'd opt for the naked woman. But that's another debate.

I guess I would opt for the naked woman as being the lesser of two evils but I'd also say that the average american boy has a distorted view and expectation of women. This whoever stems from all forms of media as well as the depiction of violence.

[BiTMAP]

Let's just be clear about this.. this law does not ban the making of these games or dictate what they can or can't put in the game. It only says that you cannot sell them to minors... It is no different than saying you cannot sell Hustler magazine to children or perhaps you feel that is silly law as well? Of course minors who wish to get Hustler magazine will and do but I can't think of a single time I have ever hear dof anyone throwing up their arm sin distress that minors could not buy pronography. (there have been many disputes over what's constitues pornography but that is a seperate issue) I think that the shortcomings of this restriction is that it is too specific and caters to one group.

I think you got me mixed up. I think its GOOD that they don't sell those games to minors just like pr0n which i think has no place. I don't see why games have to be about killing Cops either. I'm currently working a game project and writing the story, and its showing me alot, why can't we go back to the good ol days where the story was about saving humanity from a dredded evil. Okay so its cleché but I don't see why we have to have pointless games for minors anyways. I see no reason why a 10 year old shold be playing Vice city. I was getting a bit far fetched, stopping games that don't agree with the government completly.

[gmask]

Originally posted by BiTMAP
I think you got me mixed up. I think its GOOD that they don't sell those games to minors just like pr0n which i think has no place. I don't see why games have to be about killing Cops either. I'm currently working a game project and writing the story, and its showing me alot, why can't we go back to the good ol days where the story was about saving humanity from a dredded evil. Okay so its cleché but I don't see why we have to have pointless games for minors anyways. I see no reason why a 10 year old shold be playing Vice city. I was getting a bit far fetched, stopping games that don't agree with the government completly.


Okay sorry I took you the wrong way.. I guess I thought you were being sarcastic..

Games don't have to be about saving humanity from evil although it's a classic scenario but it seems that there are games now coming ou tthat are fromt eh point of view of the criminal and because you are rewarded for being good at being a criminal it just seems like there is room for confusion.

I never played any game even remotely like that growing up. the most violent thing I can think of was getting eaten by a grue in Zork and that was a text based game.

Another game I got really addicted to was SimCity which lately has gotten more adult.. although I think because it sort of shows the consequences of endulgence that it has positive messages.

I used to play quake quite a bit at work which was alot of fun.. I didn't like playing against the computer.. just not as much fun.

The first time I played Doom I really got an adreneline rush.. it was kind of scary and I was in my early twenties. I can only imagine what that would be like if I was 16 or younger. I don't think that is a good thing. I guess some people have more or less tolerance for it.


You probably can't give away your ideas for this game you are working on but are you saying that you feel pressure to include cop murder or extreme violence?

I guess it depend sont he company.. I worked for a production company that started out making music video for a wide rang eof bands and they never made any booty videos and we really never objectified women in any projects. This was a conscious effort .. actually come to think of it ther ewre a few projects that kin dof rode the edge of that pun intended.. we did do some sexy tongue in cheek humor but both male and females were objectified so it was "fair" exploitation.

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by gmask
All I'm looking for is for one person who is in the industry to say something like well we decided to show police being brutalized because that is what today's teenagers view as the typical authority figure to rebel against.

Having been one once myself I know what that is like and somehow I learned that not fearing them is the best way to not get into trouble especially when you haven't done anything wrong. I knew guys that would run at the mere sight of a cop.

This is why I agree that restricting the sale to those over 17 is a good idea. However, for those "of age" I see nothing wrong with them being allowed to play these games. If they've been raised right they'll understand by that point that the cops are not the enemy. I've spent countless hours playing GTA and never get the urge to go on some sort of rampage against cops. In fact, one of my best friend's is a cop and he's been known to play the game as well.

Originally posted by gmask
I think a really inventive game might explore these ideas but I guess that is not enough of an outlet for today's kids or have they just been groomed to be responsive to this kind of gameplay only.

Growing up as an adreneline junkie is not healthy and to deal with reality you have to at some point direct that energy towards creating.

You're making some very broad generalizations here. I've been playing games since I was like 5, and I know many other artists, musicans, writers, etc. that grew up playing games as well. Yet we all found creative outlets to occupy our minds. You're assuming that because someone plays these types of games that they will become desensitized zombies with no ability to think for themselves. This might be true if the kids did nothing but play games 24-7, but if that's the case then the blame falls on the parents. Too much of anything can be bad for you, games are no different, but to assume that any amount of gameplay is bad is being very narrowminded. If the parents were responsible, they'd limit the kid's time on the game and/or monitor more closely which type of games they play. This is why I agree with the law though. It sort of forces the parents to take an active role in thier kid's life. Now, instead of just tossing Little Johnny 40 bucks to buy whatever game he wants, the parent has to actually walk into the store with him and see just what the kid is getting into. Whether they believe the material is appropriate or not is then up to the parent to decide, not the kid (or the government for that matter). The choice starts and ends with the parent.

Originally posted by gmask
>>>However, you do realize that violence is a natural human instinct, right?

Sure but those instincts are blind.. IE they should not be directed towards police or women for that matter. Monster violence is at least imaginative.

That's the point though, isn't it? I mean, the violence isn't being directed towards women or police, it's being directed at virtual avatars of women and police. Nobody is really getting hurt or killed in this situation, so it's just a harmless outlet for agression. As I've said before I agree with the law, therefore I see nothing wrong with someone that's of a legal age playing these games. At that point the person should realize the difference between a virtual cop and a real cop. If they don't , then we have a more serious problem than this person playing a violent video game.

Originally posted by gmask
I have to question though how much of an outlet games are in comparison to excercise .. I would defiantely go with excercise as being the healthier outlet. I guess that explains why prisoner's are allowed to weight train instead of playing video games. Although I have negative feelings toward sprisonor's becoming physically stronger

I never made the claim that games were healthier, that's completely subjective, but that doesn't make them invalid either. Where excersie may help you deal with the physical aspect of your inner aggression, games may help work out the emotional and or mental aspect of that aggression. Someone that's been raised well and is a well adjusted indivual will, in the course of playing these games, realize just how ludicrous it is, because they could never imagine themselves doing such things in a real-world situation.

By the way, prisoner's are allowed to play video games. Some prisons have game rooms (I think there's on in Minn.) However, I dont think the major issue on the minds of the wardens is whether their prisoners are playing violent games.

Originally posted by gmask
>>>It's a natural human response to relieve this sexual tension. Now whether that means hitting the heavy bag, getting to it with your wife or girlfriend, or simply whacking it to the latest issue of Hustler, is again up to the individual.

This is a touchy subject but if that were true then you could simply give some porn mags to sex offenders and not worry about them acting out their problems in reality.

So you're saying that everyone who plays these games is potential murderer? I'm talking about average, everyday people, not a few bad apples that may have some social and/or mental problems. I'm saying that for your "normal" well-adjusted individual who may have had a bad day at work, or experienced some road rage during the day, or got a speeding ticket, etc. that this can be a healthy, harmless outlet for thier pent up aggression. Of course there a few maniacs out there who would sooner commit these types of acts for real, but they are a minority, and the game is not going to be enough of an outlet for them. That's no excuse to not have the game available at all, though.

[gmask]

>>>However, for those "of age" I see nothing wrong with them being allowed to play these games.

I'm not debating that.


>>>If they've been raised right they'll understand by that point that the cops are not the enemy.

I should hope so but there are many how aren't I'm not blamely games but I'm just saying that there is exploitation in the industry.



>>>You're making some very broad generalizations here. I've been playing games since I was like 5, and I know many other artists, musicans, writers, etc. that grew up playing games as well. Yet we all found creative outlets to occupy our minds. You're assuming that because someone plays these types of games that they will become desensitized zombies with no ability to think for themselves.

Do you generally think that everybody is like yourself and has studied music or the arts or has creative outlets? Yes most people make decisions for themselves but wether or not they make good decisions is another story.



>>Whether they believe the material is appropriate or not is then up to the parent to decide, not the kid (or the government for that matter). The choice starts and ends with the parent.

So if the parent fails and the government fails then corporations , private businesses and guys who are standing around in video game stores know whats best for minors?



>>>That's the point though, isn't it? I mean, the violence isn't being directed towards women or police, it's being directed at virtual avatars of women and police.

Yeah if you have a strong grip on reality then that's all it is but children below a certain age do not.. although hopefully by age 16 they would.

However though a negative attitude towards women for example can be learned. If the games you play tell you it's okay to bitch slap women who are whores does that mean that even if tyou don't do that in reality that women who are whores are less than human. They they are to be treated as humanities garbage. That is how they are treated in the gameworld. It's basically reinforcing a diminuitive view of women IMO.. I think it's sick to roleplay that I don't see it as harmless fun and this isn't even what's being banned.


>>>I never made the claim that games were healthier, that's completely subjective, but that doesn't make them invalid either.

Wouldn't that be objective.. excercise is not healthy ther ei sno debating it.. if you excercise you become healtier. Games do have som ehand eye coordination goign for it but I think only to a certain point and it's more of a skill.

>>>Someone that's been raised well and is a well adjusted indivual will, in the course of playing these games, realize just how ludicrous it is, because they could never imagine themselves doing such things in a real-world situation.

And many many children aren't .

>>By the way, prisoner's are allowed to play video games. Some prisons have game rooms (I think there's on in Minn.)

I hope that is only in minimum security prisons.. oh well they gotta kill time somehow.

>>>So you're saying that everyone who plays these games is potential murderer?

I never said that.. if that were the case then there wouldn;t be debate over this issue.


>>>I'm talking about average, everyday people, not a few bad apples that may have some social and/or mental problems.

So this material is what everyday average normal people find pallettable. I guess considering how popular shows like Jerry Springer are that this should not be so surprising.

Let me just say that I am acknowledging that you agree with me that this law is reasonable. My main point is that I think there is room for other types of games but the focus in the industry is the juvenile male psychology.

[Kricket]

Originally posted by Chewey
For those profess to be concerned about censorship, take a look at the real deal taking place in the public schools. Text books won't be allowed to use certain words and terms that are common to our daily utilization of the english language.

Here are just a few...

yacht
founding fathers
he
elderly
fat
and many many others that have been deemed offensive

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,85594,00.html

Newspeak anyone?

Jeez, that's the biggest load of bullcrap I've read in a long time. What's next, replace parts of Lincolns Gettsburg address to "Eighty-seven years ago, our framers brought forth on this continent..." ? Framers? wtf is that?

Why do people want to keep dumbing down our children? History wasnt politically correct.. let's show them that. It'll help prepare them for the real world.


As for videogames.. At first I thought age restrictions on games wasnt too bad.. if the game's too mature just have a parent buy it or rent it.. then I started thinking about arcade games.. and the countless hours I'd spent at 7-11's tearing out spines in Mortal Kombat. If there were age restrictions back then I never would have had that kind of fun (Not that Senator Lieberman wasnt trying). It should be up to the parents to decide what their kids play, not the government.

I used to work for a really religous guy doing web design.. I was at his place workin on some stuff and started talking with his son (who was around 13-14) .. I asked him if he ever played DOOM and he said "No, my father wont let me.. too violent." Thats how it should work. I didnt agree, but who was I to interfere with his family... but at least it wasnt as bad as THIS (http://www.actsofgord.com/Chronicles/chapter36.html).

[gmask]

>>> I didnt agree, but who was I to interfere with his family... but at least it wasnt as bad as [URL=http://www.actsofgord.com/Chronicles/chapter36.html]THIS

That's pretty funny.. a bit extreme but funny.. parappa the rapper or is that too competitive???

[BiTMAP]

You probably can't give away your ideas for this game you are working on but are you saying that you feel pressure to include cop murder or extreme violence?


actualy no, but i'm feeling pressure to make an address to it. Its a science fiction story in the game and like all GOOD science fiction it will be pointing out alot of problems with society, so it gives me reason to show in a very literal way that these types of things are wrong, as well as things such as bad values against women. The game's main character is a female and was in a very brutal war (these are some of the only true history, even it was fictionalised) and this war has forever changed how she acts and feels about things such as killing, it also will show that she can become a machine and just kill on command. There will be violience becuase you are fighting, but its not humans your fighting (nor the overused demons). The thing Is that through technoligy I will be able to show a huge range of emotions, from the pain and anguash(spelling?) of someone who dies, to the disgust when someone else is killed and so on. I feel that all games should be striving to do the same things.

For one Games Should be Entertaining and FUN, thats the most important thing, but they should also serve a useful purpose, and for me I see that as being a window or a mirror into our own twisted worlds and through that helping us all by giving us a chance to self improve.

[gmask]

>>>For one Games Should be Entertaining and FUN, thats the most important thing, but they should also serve a useful purpose, and for me I see that as being a window or a mirror into our own twisted worlds and through that helping us all by giving us a chance to self improve.

I like your motivation.. I might be wrong but I feel that many of the games that have gotten negative attention do so because they lack these virtures. For example what is the virtue of being shown strippers when you win in BMX XXX?? I'd like to hear the useful purpose of that for minors;-)

[BiTMAP]

I don't think thar is any reason for that to ANY age audiance.... I'm 16 and i DON't need to be seeing that.

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.