Human Skin WIPs and Tips (Everyone feel free to post your own skin WIPS here too)

[Shonner]

I certainly wouldn't aim for such a scientific approach... And most people aren't after 100% photorealistic results anyway, the large majority actually overdo the translucency effect as it's usually more pleasing to the eye.

I'm all for 100% photorealistic results.

[Shonner]

I think this is the closest i've seen so far, pretty amazing shader:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=132&t=648595#

But still looks CG, can't quite figure out why, any thoughts?

See http://www.ballisticpublishing.com/books/essence/face/dvd.php which shows how this is done. The amount of CG look in the results is up to the artist.

[pluMmet]

See http://www.ballisticpublishing.com/books/essence/face/dvd.php which shows how this is done. The amount of CG look in the results is up to the artist.



PS using max.

I have that book...

This is what you get when you hit render with the file that comes with it:
http://mysite.verizon.net/scanbay02/Monika.jpg

Not what I expected.

After a little work and Fry render I have this so far:
http://mysite.verizon.net/scanbay02/MonikaFry.jpg

Still some work to do me thinks.

I don't like John Strieder's girls lips too much but I can't get my girl to have the proper shinyness like his :(

[Shonner]

I didn't get the DVD for the book because the files are never complete. They're just for training. The book makes you do some work though to achieve great results.

http://www.shonner.com/drafts/images/darker_skin_1.jpg

[pluMmet]

I didn't get the DVD for the book because the files are never complete. They're just for training. The book makes you do some work though to achieve great results.

Well it makes reverse engineering a little hard but I do like the book.

[everlite]

I have the book, however i dont want to pin myself to these techniques, i still think there's something missing, but that said still a good book.

pluMmet: another interesting result from the fry renderer. Though some heavy blacks.

I'm wondering if using an unbiased renderer is the answer. Though from past experience with Maxwell (im sure frys similiar) you can't tweak, test, tweat test, its more like, tweak, test and go and do the weekly shopping then come back to a grainy render still at 25% :) It was a while since i had that experience, is fry quick on the renders?

Dave.

[pluMmet]

and this with SSS and Reflections:
http://www.johnstrieder.com/zeugs/js-skin-result.jpg

(rendered in FryRender, model is my "Willpower"-Girl)

HTH :)

John Strieder

The more I look at it I can see how well she is coming along. Are you still using the 6 layers like in FastSkin? Is it all in one material?

[johnstrieder]

Thanks everlite,

Can you expand more on your render, approach and light setup?

this was a Rendertest for "Willpower", i used this scene to tweak my Skinmaterial further.
Light is only two Emitterplanes (one from the front and one from the back).
I was inspired by the MentalRay FastSkin-Shader and made two Reflection-Layers, 2 Diffuse (different Roughness and colour here) and 3 SSS-Layers. Those Layers are working like Laa-Yosh described in his post.

Fry's one of those unbiased renderers right? i think this could be a big step forward in the next few years as an alternative to MR. Maxwell is producing some amazing stuff, cant wait to see how people use the new rewritten SSS shader.

Yes, I love the approach and the comfort of the unbiased Engines. The new SSS of Maxwell looks interesting. Maybe now it`s possible to create a realistic skinshader with MW, too.

Is the character rendered in fry too? http://www.johnstrieder.com/images/js-hommagefinalnew2.jpg or is this post?

All my Images are rendered in FryRender and no postwork* . This Image is a little bit older, my Skin Material is more realistic now (i hope) :)

*(except sometimes adding grain or colour degeneration, yet the Hairs are not a Post-Effect, they are Polygonstrands and use advantages of FryRender, like SSSSS (Single Sheet-SSS) and Thin-Film-Coating).

[pluMmet]

I have the book, however i dont want to pin myself to these techniques, i still think there's something missing, but that said still a good book.

pluMmet: another interesting result from the fry renderer. Though some heavy blacks.

I'm wondering if using an unbiased renderer is the answer. Though from past experience with Maxwell (im sure frys similiar) you can't tweak, test, tweat test, its more like, tweak, test and go and do the weekly shopping then come back to a grainy render still at 25% :) It was a while since i had that experience, is fry quick on the renders?

Dave.

Maxwell's new s.s.s. is Amazing but still flawed. It doesn't allow for any kind of texture map.

I'm in love with Fry as whole. I also think the answer is in unbiased.

As far as testing with Fry it is faster then Maxwell. They have a sort of quick response rendering thing going on. The first 3 or 4 minutes go very fast then the normal unbiased thing sets in but it's enough time to get an idea of how it will go.

John seems to have been harder at work at it then me. When ever I add layers to skin or when I turn the roughness down (for shineyness) the skin gets all dark like I'm mixing acrylics. I've been frustrated many times at it :hmm:

[pluMmet]

Thanks everlite,



this was a Rendertest for "Willpower", i used this scene to tweak my Skinmaterial further.
Light is only two Emitterplanes (one from the front and one from the back).
I was inspired by the MentalRay FastSkin-Shader and made two Reflection-Layers, 2 Diffuse (different Roughness and colour here) and 3 SSS-Layers. Those Layers are working like Laa-Yosh described in his post.

How are you setting up reflection layers in Fry?

[johnstrieder]

@everlite: Unbiased engines are much faster now ... and with a unbiased engine you have the comfort to see the whole Image immediality, unless it's more or less noisy at the first time.
This Guy here: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=5067119&postcount=12
(Yes, far from perfect, it was just a test :p)
rendered about 4 Minutes in FryRender on my QX6700, i think, this is not slow.
Just keep in mind, there's - biased-spoken - always Full GI, traced Reflections, Caustics etc.

@pluMmet: Yes, 7 Layers actually (2 Diffuse now). You could try to let your Material look like Skin before Texturing! Texturing is the next Step :)

[pluMmet]

@pluMmet: Yes, 7 Layers actually (2 Diffuse now). You could try to let your Material look like Skin before Texturing! Texturing is the next Step :)

I have tried that but I get the acrylic effect I just mentioned where when I add layers everything browns out...

[visionmaster2]

Nice render johnstrieder !
FryRender sss looks good .

[johnstrieder]

pluMmet, you're posting way too fast - or I'm too slow ;)

Maxwell's new s.s.s. is Amazing but still flawed. It doesn't allow for any kind of texture map.

Really? Didn't know that. Then it's still impossible ... in MW 1.8 maybe? :)

Creating my Material wasn't so hard, cause I used the results of FastSkin as guide.
Specularity .... hmmm ... one of the Layers is Roughness 15 and ND of 1.36. 90°-Spec-Colour is light-blue. I'm using a weight-map now; before I used Textures, i think, it was a weight of ~20%. If a single Layer is relatively dark, you can exceed the 100%. Maybe in future I use Roughnessmaps.

[pluMmet]

pluMmet, you're posting way too fast - or I'm too slow ;)



Really? Didn't know that. Then it's still impossible ... in MW 1.8 maybe? :)

Creating my Material wasn't so hard, cause I used the results of FastSkin as guide.
Specularity .... hmmm ... one of the Layers is Roughness 15 and ND of 1.36. 90°-Spec-Colour is light-blue. I'm using a weight-map now; before I used Textures, i think, it was a weight of ~20%. If a single Layer is relatively dark, you can exceed the 100%. Maybe in future I use Roughnessmaps.

Well you're inspiring me to try some more that's for sure. I'll try these settings and see how it goes.

As far as being fast on this subject, it has my attention :lightbulb

I'm on a quest for photo realistic skin in Fry. I have her looking fairly good using Mental Ray but I want her to look like I want from within my chosen renderer.

[everlite]

Eric:

Do you have a high res version of the render you posted earlier? i'd love to see it a little bigger. What do you think are the current disadvantages with the fry setup you're currently using? .. now come on, im sure there's a few :)

I'll download the demo when i get a moment free. So the shader you have, is this one that you've custom built, or is it based on a existing shader with tweaks? Just wondering if its quite a tough job coming up with these kind of shaders, i remember Maxwell wasn't for the faint hearted :)

Dave.

[pluMmet]

Eric:

Do you have a high res version of the render you posted earlier? i'd love to see it a little bigger. What do you think are the current disadvantages with the fry setup you're currently using? .. now come on, im sure there's a few :)

I'll download the demo when i get a moment free. So the shader you have, is this one that you've custom built, or is it based on a existing shader with tweaks? Just wondering if its quite a tough job coming up with these kind of shaders, i remember Maxwell wasn't for the faint hearted :)

Dave.

I have loads of test files saved. It would just be a matter of finding it and rendering it higher.

As far as disadvantages.. John doesn't seem to be having the trouble that I am. It seems to me that if I can understand what I'm doing wrong that he is doing right that Fry will give exactly what I'm looking for. I have to pick his brain.

The shader is built by me. Though I have about 70 variations of it ;)

To me my girl looks good for someone with makeup on. Unfortunately I don't want it to look like that. I can't get the s.s.s. in Fry to be there and the specular to be there at the same time but John can....

[everlite]

Apologies man, haha :) i was sightly confused there, the request for the larger image was meant for John (the one with the lips) ... you're renders still cool (probably need to kiss but some more now) ... Though still black in areas. Oh man did i get my wires crossed with that one. D'oh!

Dave.:argh:

[pluMmet]

Apologies man, haha :) i was sightly confused there, the request for the larger image was meant for John (the one with the lips) ... you're renders still cool (probably need to kiss but some more now) ... Though still black in areas. Oh man did i get my wires crossed with that one. D'oh!

Dave.:argh:

Hopefully he'll pop back online here soon :)

[johnstrieder]

Thanks visionmaster!

@everlite:
Just wondering if its quite a tough job coming up with these kind of shaders, i remember Maxwell wasn't for the faint hearted

Hm, for me it's the other way around. In Fry (and Maxwell) you have 0° and 90° Ref-Color, ND and Roughness. That's it (mainly). Only the few parameters in Reality exist.
I'm trying to compare it with going to a point from inside or outside.
A biased engine calculates an approximation to what something should look like, while a unbiased engine simulates what something looks like accurately. Or more simple:

biased = what it looks like / unbiased = what it is

So, handling an unbiased engine is pretty easy (in my eyes?) ... -
maybe after turning the point of view.

I hope, that was understandable, english is not my native language :)

[johnstrieder]

I'm still here, but when I have posted something there are 3 new Postings :p

@everlite, which black Areas? In the test scene ther was nothing in her mouth, so it's black. If you mean black Shadows: Skin doesn't glow or is lightend from inside. There are still black shadows ...

[pluMmet]

I don't know exactly why but I'm running some tests right now and my previous problems have gone away.

Lots more to do but she's looking supple.

[pluMmet]

I'm still here, but when I have posted something there are 3 new Postings :p

@everlite, which black Areas? In the test scene ther was nothing in her mouth, so it's black. If you mean black Shadows: Skin doesn't glow or is lightend from inside. There are still black shadows ...

The black areas were my girl not yours :argh:

[pluMmet]

Here is 15 minutes on 8 cores:
http://mysite.verizon.net/scanbay02/MonikaSupple.jpg

I'm going to let it run over night just because I have to get up early and can't wait.

I don't know why my earlier efforts could not get this to work but when I get time I'll add more layers and see what I can do ;)

[johnstrieder]

okay, misunderstanding over misunderstanding http://1.2.3.11/bmi/forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/wink.gif

[pluMmet]

I'm sure it cleared some time ago but I just woke up
http://mysite.verizon.net/scanbay01/MonikaSupple-01.jpg

Not nearly gelatinous enough but I'm in a better direction.

[pluMmet]

Small update:
http://mysite.verizon.net/scanbay01/MonkiaNew.jpg

Very WIP. I'll have to remove the eye makeup and eyebrows from the texture but it's looking promising.

It's taking too long to render, I'll have to figure out if I've done something wrong?

[johnstrieder]

Here's a W.I.P. of me:
(Eyebrows and Lashes are Geometry)

http://www.johnstrieder.com/zeugs/js-girlhead01.jpg

(Yeah, the Nose and the Teeth really suck, but it's just a wip)

[pluMmet]

Nice John ;)

Here is my update
http://mysite.verizon.net/scanbay01/MonikaFin.jpg

[Phoenix4]

Hi everyone. Well I think I am finally getting what I am after in a skin shader setup with Max and Vray. (after many many many months of trying :) )

I attached two images, as I am not sure at this stage which base texture I like the best.
(I am leaning towards the lighter one)

No need to comment on the character (poser model), as this post is about the skin shader.

Also, if anyone knows how to make Very realistic eyes, let me know... really want to bring out realism in this render.

A.

[pluMmet]

Hi everyone. Well I think I am finally getting what I am after in a skin shader setup with Max and Vray. (after many many many months of trying :) )

I attached two images, as I am not sure at this stage which base texture I like the best.
(I am leaning towards the lighter one)

No need to comment on the character (poser model), as this post is about the skin shader.

Also, if anyone knows how to make Very realistic eyes, let me know... really want to bring out realism in this render.

A.

Hey very cool looking skin in Vray :beer:

Here is an eye modeling tutorial for you. (http://www.3dluvr.com/rogueldr/tutorials/eye/eyes.html)

[learner88]

great! i really like this one! try to add some blurry /fresnel reflection to add more realism!

[everlite]

Hi,

A little critique,

The shadows are too black around the skin contact areas. Eyes are very bright. Is the skin spec from the shader or a map? could be slightly more oilier. Nice hair.

Dave.

[ahtiandr]

Really good stuff here :) I am trying to texture female head atm and here is just raw brush render and some adjustment in ps . I just have tested one of the texturing ways and I must agree that my pc cant handle it :( I have tried to use zapplink with a big document size (about 6000x4000) , because I have very good textures and I want keep all details . Now I am planning to make alpha brushes from these hq textures and add all details in brush and then polypaint my model . I ll show you my end result if I will success

http://static1.filefront.com/images/personal/a/ahtiandr/121325/yqwaralgvt.thumb500.jpg

[GBREAL]

Would anyone mind posting some of their materials?

[johnstrieder]

@gbreal: For which engine?

[johnstrieder]

My latest result, rendered with fryrender, textures made with polypainting in ZB. Same material configuration like my other versions, but tweaks ;)

See also here: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=759687

http://www.johnstrieder.com/images09/js-pinkassassin.jpg

[GBREAL]

I am using Max 2008. I have both Mental Ray and V-Ray. I can't seem to get decent results no matter what I try.

[visionmaster2]

GBREAL, this thread will help you :
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3661085#post3661085

[johnstrieder]

I have V-Ray for Cinema 4D and did a simple Skinshader which was part of a job a while ago. Unfortunately, V-Ray for C4D and V-Ray for 3dsmax aren't compatible :(

But I think this Thread helps, it includes Screenshots of how the Shader is build:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=43&t=410544

[Phoenix4]

Hi,
I have been just starting to experiment with the new Vray fastsss2 shader.

Think I am sort of getting what I want, but needs to look way more realistic..

(as you can see I am trying to work out the best lighting too, which also makes a big difference).


Any suggestions on what to improve, lighting, how to make it better etc..?

Adam
:)

ps.. the Model is a poser model.. no need to comment about it as this is just about skin shader testing.

[GBREAL]

That's looking good!

[Markuss]

That looks good Phoenix4. My only concern is, why do you get something that looks like a sharp reflection along the side of the cheecks and in the forehead? I think reflected light in the skin would be much blurryer, except from glossy areas like the lips.

Otherwise it is very nice translucent effect.

[Phoenix4]

Yeah..

I think having too many lights is causing this 'sharpness', maybe I'll have to look more into the shadow type too.

Sill haven't found the 'right' light yet... but I think I am getting closer to what I want to achieve.

Thanks for the comments

Adam

[GBREAL]

Thanks guys for all the references.

[GBREAL]

This is what I have been able to achieve using the Mental Ray Fast Skin Shader.

[ice-boy]

some people are saying that the specular color should be blue and some are saying it should not be.
so what color should i use now? and if it is blue what kind of blue? is there an example?

[Laa-Yosh]

If you're using the mental ray skin SSS shader, then it already has blueish colors set for reflection and specular. If not, then just set a light blue color.

[Matasorapit]

Interesting thread.
I found a lot of good reading here.
Skin and realistic skin has always been a hard one. Personally I do not think there is one single formula to get things perfect but hours of pain staking test renders, adapting and trial and error. I use a totally new approach almost every time I formulate a skin shader.
One of my current works was started a month ago and the skin shader started on the initial modeling stage... I am still not yet happy.

[pap87]

Personally I do not think there is one single formula to get things perfect but hours of pain staking test renders, adapting and trial and error.

Yeah, I used to do exactly the same thing with the mentalray sss shader and spend hours upon hours changing radius values, subdermal colours, specular values and just when I thought I was happy with it I would come back to it the next day and it would just look bad and I would bang my head on the wall.
But very slowly I came to the realisation that the default settings were actually just right (provided the character is modeled to scale). Instead it was always the lighting that was letting the look of the skin down. So I changed my workflow a little and would do all the lighting before doing any skin shading and get the lighting looking as good and as realistic as I can, because even the best skin shader in the world would look fake in bad or unrealistic lighting.
For me this way is much better and much quicker because once I'm happy with the lighting and I know exactly what it's doing to my scene/character I can temporarily forget about it and focus solely on the skin shader because now I'll know how it should behave in the lit scene.

So in a nutshell, my finding is that the key to realistic skin shading (or any material for that matter) is realistic lighting.

[Matasorapit]

Yeah, that makes perfect sence. I am going to spend more focus on lighting my scenes before trying to do something that gets changed or adapted anyway.
Thanks John.

This is where I am at with my current project.
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr38/matasorapit/45.jpg

[GBREAL]

Should I be using MR SSS on cartoon models (not aiming for realism in this case)?

[johnstrieder]

Hi Matasorapit, it's looking great! But I'm missing the red Backscatter on the Ears - maybe combined with a texture showing veins ;)

@GBREAL: Depends on the style you like to create! Most time you'll like to use SSS.

[Matasorapit]

Hi John,

Thanks for your reply. I am going to go back to this model and tweek it a little.
Your work is fantastic and its a privilege to have your feedback.

Damian

[MikeNash]

Here sneak at my new project fast skin shader.

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr144/kravit43/char-1.jpg?t=1260153359

[idkfa]

this is what I've achieved so far, using max 2010, mental ray and Fast SkinPlus+ shader, handpainted textures for unscattered diffuse, overall coloring, epidermal, subdermal and backlight layers, specular and bump taken from the displacement map. C&C welcomed :)

http://s1013.photobucket.com/albums/af257/ludgidia/069.jpg

[designingpatrick]

Yeah..

I think having too many lights is causing this 'sharpness', maybe I'll have to look more into the shadow type too.

Adam


It doesn't seem like a lighting issue, I mean, you can see the girl's ear reflecting on her cheek. That has got to be an issue with the shader.

[johnstrieder]

this is what I've achieved so far, using max 2010, mental ray and Fast SkinPlus+ shader, handpainted textures for unscattered diffuse, overall coloring, epidermal, subdermal and backlight layers, specular and bump taken from the displacement map. C&C welcomed :)

It's looking great! :thumbsup: A little bit waxish, tough ;)

[learner88]

some quick tests:I painted the textures quickly in photoshop.mental ray for maya misss_fast_skin

final gathering:
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1036/bustfg1.jpg

3 area lights
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5505/bust1.jpg


added AO to the material:Final gathering+1 area-pysical light
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5310/testrenderao2.jpg

[Riperton]

It's looking great! :thumbsup: A little bit waxish, tough ;)

I'd rather say it looks ..."baloonish". If rays proceed too straight forward, this effect might appear.

[MikeNash]

Be sure to add properly painted weight maps and sss colour maps to break up that waxy feel, its a must. Your pretty much slapping on candle wax effect on your skin.

Also test with just your sss maps visible and do your tests with fg and indirect scattering on. Since it can greatly change your sss effects, usually making it more saturated.

You can also play with your lightmap gamma curve to give your sss effects some harder edge transitions between your layers.
Also a higher scatter bias of about .3 .23 will add some greens to your side glancing angles

Here is image of just my sss effect, I recommend using real world scale. It helps alot in understanding how much scattering is going through your model instead of generic units and you will usually find default values that come with sss shader are almost to your needs.
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr144/kravit43/fresSSS.jpg?t=1266029069

You should also plug in an AO with your diffuse map, Instead of adding at the last minute.
It's very hard to judge final outcome your sss effects and lighting without this.

Also slightly green fresnell effect will help sell the edges of your models skin, aswell as quick lens distort + noise to your renders in photoshop will help un-cgi your work
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr144/kravit43/fres.jpg?t=1266029068

[learner88]

I totally agree with kravit, I'm using maya 2008 and mental ray.I added ambient occlusion in the misss_fast_skin overall color. with distance set to about 5 cm.So AO helps to darken only the small wrinkles(like fingers-hand wrinkles) or the areas where two pieces of skin are in direct contact(for example the legs that touch and deform eachother).In my last picture ao is visible only under her breast and a bit between arms and torso or between legs.If AO distance was too high, i would lose the light bouncing effect of the Final gather between the legs,arms-torso ecc, wich is important in my opinion because gives more saturation and warm feel that i can see in real photos of skin (expecially with sun light).
Scatter radius too, should be about 5mm or 1 cm (maximum!!!) or the shader will look waxy!and,As Kravit said, also the sss layers MUST have a map,possybly the same or very similar(with veins added for the subdermal scatter layer,for example) to the diffuse but with different hue.

another thing I always do is never use specular light.I use only blurry reflection.( this is not a must in my opinion but i prefer it )

[johnstrieder]

Instead of AO I'm adding a ZBrush-Cavity Mask via "soft light" on the Color-Map ;)

[learner88]

This could be a solution,But it will be a baked texture, won't it?

[Laa-Yosh]

Yeah, and AO should only affect indirect light anyway. Direct light will always reach every part of the form that's not in shadow already.

[RK-art]

Here is a new test with a free 3d-scan-mesh from Lee Perry Smith's ir-model-site with VrayforC4D 1.2:



http://www.rk-art.de/Art_Stuff/Vray/Joanne-FACS_006_Eyes-Closed_Vray_test.jpg



As the color-texture is not 'clean', meaning that it contains gloss and spec like a normal photography, I controlled my result with another angle and a first Diffuse-only-render (no Specs, no gloss, no sss):



http://www.rk-art.de/Art_Stuff/Vray/Joanne-FACS_006_Eyes-Closed_Vray_test_Diffuse_only.jpg



OK, the skin-effekt was not caused by a simple 'photographic-texture-over-the-mesh' thing.



Now again my full skin-shader (Diffuse, sss, specs, glow):



http://www.rk-art.de/Art_Stuff/Vray/Joanne-FACS_006_Eyes-Closed_Vray_test_1.jpg





Although I only used the color-map in the different slots with the help of the filter-shader and without !! any photoshop-work to create epidermal-, subdermal- , bump- spec- and glow-maps (only used the settings within the filter-shader) , it rendered out very nice, I think.

And here is a test with James Busby's 'male'-model from his tutorial (James kindly allowed me to use it for my tests):



http://www.rk-art.de/Art_Stuff/Vray/Man_Vray-Skin_1.jpghttp://www.rk-art.de/Art_Stuff/Vray/Man_Vray-Skin_1a.jpg



This one is already very close to the results with Lightwave.

Only one area-light with a HDRI.

[learner88]

looks good! Nice tests.The head scan is perfect!

Although I only used the color-map in the different slots with the help of the filter-shader and without !! any photoshop-work to create epidermal-, subdermal- , bump- spec- and glow-maps (only used the settings within the filter-shader) , it rendered out very nice, I think.



this is a method I prefer.In your case you had a photo texture, but it's a good method even if you paint the texture,.I create colour map and use the same map for other layers just changing hue and saturation.If i want a more correct result I add the subdermal elements only on this layer, like veins.But it's a small and almostu unnoticeable detail.

[RK-art]

Another 3d-scan-mesh from the internet:



http://www.rk-art.de/Art_Stuff/Vray/FacsScan_example1_Vray_test.jpg

[learner88]

Are those reflections on the eyes and on the nose baked or there is a reflection/specular layer?

[RK-art]

No, these ones are baked.

The color-texture of this 3d-scan is a simple photo with all reflections & specs baked in, not an albedo as we should normally use.

But it shows mainly the real life-like illusion of living skin that VrayforC4D can produce with a simple photo mapped on the mesh.

[RK-art]

A new one.

This model and texture is by Lee.P.Smith, provided on the actual 3d-world-mag-cd.

It is the 'Hair-model', showing the capabilities of the HairFarm-plugin of 3d max.

The skin on the original max-render is more uuuhh than aahh and the color texture isn't really great, but look what Vrayforc4d can do with it:



http://www.rk-art.de/Art_Stuff/Vray/Model%20ohne%20Haar_Vray_4-Shader_Blendmaterial_2.jpg



Now the shader is much more complex than before.

No baked photo-specs, all is really rendered.



Do you notice the distinct veins under the skin ?

[kybel]

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/8889/mairo.jpg
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2710/59pipi030410.jpg

character for my future short film
maya | MR

[cgisoul]

Hi,

I'm new in the SSS and I was wondering if you professionals or those with more experience could give me some guidance.

Let's say I have a face reference image, so that would be my Color Map.
From there, how can I transform the Color Map into Back-Scattering Pass, Subdermal Pass and Epidermal Pass? Should I paint the three maps separately? Plus, Should I just paint the sections around the ears and nose where the SSS is visible? Again, I'm new with the SSS and I appreciate if anyone could give me some guidance.

Any other recommendation or resources is certainly most welcomed.

Thank you.

[RK-art]

A new test with a WIP-Model:

http://www.rk-art.de/Art_Stuff/Vray/Vray_man_neu_test_d.jpg

[Carl van Heezik]

I am impressed how did you do it?

[RK-art]

Hi Carl,
countless hours of try and error and still a lot to fix and tweak.
In all Vray work you can currently see around, we all use the new SSS2 feature.
The rest is good modeling, maps and specs.

[johnstrieder]

A little bit older W.I.P., rendered in fryrender:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=155499&stc=1

[Phoenix4]

Hi Everyone,

I am still working on my fastsss2 skinshader setup for Vray.

Here is a test I am currently working with.

http://www.phoenix4.com.au/renders/testskin.jpg

Need to make it look a bit softer, probably etc.

Still much to do and learn :hmm:

A.

[designingpatrick]

Reminds me of Scarlett Johansson. Maybe increase the thickness of the hairline, the AO contrast, the eye lids seem like they aren't quite touching the eyes. Looking good man.

[RK-art]

Yes, already a good result.
Keep on.

[learner88]

I agree with previous comments.. except for her hair!The hairs are too thick in my opinion, they should be thinner!And looks like the color changes along the single hair.

Her skin looks good, try some different lighting to test it.

[ice-boy]

is there a good Vray sss2 skin tutorial?i wonder how many maps are you using to get a good skin?

where do you connect the SSS map to control the SSS ?

[saulybanez]

Hi Everyone,

I am still working on my fastsss2 skinshader setup for Vray.

Here is a test I am currently working with.

http://www.phoenix4.com.au/renders/testskin.jpg

Need to make it look a bit softer, probably etc.

Still much to do and learn :hmm:

A.

Sir, i cant seem to get the right formula for the skin bump.. this is just what im looking for. Can you post an informative way on how to do it?

[Phoenix4]

Hi Everyone,

I am still trying to sort out and understand the whole Vray fastsss2 shader.

I have seen many posts with people that get amazing results. Tho I still can't seem to get close to what I am after.

One thing I have found is that there is no, 'one setup' for all. Depending on how your diffuse map is, the scale of your model, what lighting you use etc.. things will be different.

My current attempts are yielding that my shader turns out more soft and 'squishy' looking, rather than realistic and sharp.

Would be awesome to hear from others to get some insight on how they achieve their stunning renders, and maybe get some light shed onto what makes a good setup (shader and lighting), and what the usual pitfalls are.


As for the bump map question.. Well, I am probably not doing it correctly, but I grey scale the diffuse map, then adjust the highlights, midtones and shadows in a paint program, until I get something I think would work.

Thanks,
Adam

[argoabba]

Hi Everyone,

I am still trying to sort out and understand the whole Vray fastsss2 shader.

I have seen many posts with people that get amazing results. Tho I still can't seem to get close to what I am after.

One thing I have found is that there is no, 'one setup' for all. Depending on how your diffuse map is, the scale of your model, what lighting you use etc.. things will be different.

My current attempts are yielding that my shader turns out more soft and 'squishy' looking, rather than realistic and sharp.

Would be awesome to hear from others to get some insight on how they achieve their stunning renders, and maybe get some light shed onto what makes a good setup (shader and lighting), and what the usual pitfalls are.


As for the bump map question.. Well, I am probably not doing it correctly, but I grey scale the diffuse map, then adjust the highlights, midtones and shadows in a paint program, until I get something I think would work.

Thanks,
Adam

By the way I am getting almost same quality results with Vray (post them soon) and Im still unhappy. Very importaint point - we use Poser textures! So to push it further I want to share my oppinion on A) why I think current Vray setups are not so realistic and B) what further steps of making Vray sss2 more real, also C) some tips and ideas I noiced by testing lot of tutorials for MR fastskin and using their scaled textures for test renders on my Poser models:

A) Current Problems
1. Poser textures are too colorfull and include all possible skin color info in 1 map - this way multiplying and over-duplicating sss2 shader effect too much. Poser color textures already "not photos" (they often have no specular info), but "not yet textures" for multilayered shader like vray sss2 or mr fastskin.
2. Painting over Poser textures - lot of work. Painting textures from skratch - insane as we have already wonderfull textures like Mec4d or Daz Elite.

=>So need way to wisely change coloration of color map and/or generate some maps for sss layers

B) Good things
1. Using Poser color texture as Overall Coloration (both Vray and MR) give fast and not bad result (but not enought for 100% realism)
2. Bump maps and specular maps usually available for Poser models are Ok.

C) Tips and Ideas
1. For more/less controllable Reflections/Specular effect - I found only Shellaс (in Vray) is good. Blend material also should be ok. Unfortunately original single VraySSS2 automatically engage Fresnel for reflections so you see only white-like reflections of surfaces not facing camera directly.
2. When adding maps to layers in Vray and in MR have a look at default settings. There is Blur and by default ist 1.0. This should be lowered to 0.01 to have sharp not blurred maps - so you have higher detail level. I found it very helpfull !!! As befor my textures became not sharp in MAX and I have no idea why.
3. Diffusal amount (in Vray sss2) may be used to achieve realistic face colorarion. Idea is to use map of facial blood system as Amount regulator. I have already some results with it but not yet have nice map. The same is also can be used in MR Sahder. So you see more red subdermal color on cheeks, nose... small staints over face - like all people have.

what you think ?

[argoabba]

Hello RK-Art!
I surfed all your posts.
Can you please share smth out of this scene which i think skin almost perfect!? I try to be more specific:
- how did you made left side of face (from camera view) to became so white and contrast? strong reflectivity layer and powerfull light close to face?
- do you have super stong face light from left, 1 normal light from front (a bit up) and 1 at the back right of head to make scattering work on right ear? is that Photomoteric lights?
- how many reflection/specular layers you use - I calculated 2 layers
- can you show low-res textures of it ;) ??

My favorite part of this face is nose tip with a litlle redness up there on it and perfect bump with skin specularity and oiliness over, and not too sharp form.

Sorry if im too rude about asking so much but this is so curious!! Once I have confirmed 2 posts here I start to put my shots so Im not only asking but showing as well.

A new test with a WIP-Model:

http://www.rk-art.de/Art_Stuff/Vray/Vray_man_neu_test_d.jpg

[argoabba]

my today shot

[kybel]

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8333/3wettertaft.jpg
maya|vray various light tests

[ChrRambow]

Have not much time for private works lately but here latest attempt
More a studio like lighting. This is the color corrected version.
On my blog are more tests ... but still not satisfied. :/

Seems that lights from the front are "eating" the Backscatter effect. So i ramped up the
diffuse amount of the light on the back and lowered the spec on it at the same time.

2 Arealight 1 Ringlight from the slightly upper Front and one from the back.

http://www.christianrambow.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/skin_colorcorrect.jpg

[RK-art]

Christian, good skin, only the nose tip needs some oiliness.



Argo:

I used 2 lights, one from the front and one strong backlight from far behind, so the left ear is also lit from it.

I use 2 separate specular materials (not simple layers) with separate bump, the first one also with a decent reflection included.
But a clean and detailed modeled surface is essential as bump and displacement kills the skin effect quickly.
Currently, I have no pictures of the tex-maps available, but they are generated from photos with ZBrush's fantastic Spotlight-function and refined with Photoshop.

But skin is really not so easy to create and it's difficult to produce constantly believable results under all light conditions.

[argoabba]

Thank you Ralf!
Is it shader settings for VraySSS2? (as in MR this is available inside fast skin shader specular layers but not with individual bumps)


Argo:

I used 2 lights, one from the front and one strong backlight from far behind, so the left ear is also lit from it.

I use 2 separate specular materials (not simple layers) with separate bump, the first one also with a decent reflection included.
But a clean and detailed modeled surface is essential as bump and displacement kills the skin effect quickly.
Currently, I have no pictures of the tex-maps available, but they are generated from photos with ZBrush's fantastic Spotlight-function and refined with Photoshop.

But skin is really not so easy to create and it's difficult to produce constantly believable results under all light conditions.

[RK-art]

It is Vray, but VrayforC4D.
That is special, as VrayforC4D combines the Power of Vray with the material-system of C4D, where you can stack materials. Also SSS2 is available as a separate shader as well as it is integrated inside a Vray-material special designed for C4D.
You cannot translate that exactly into max, so far I know.

[argoabba]

ok got it
just curious if can you make render of those nice head without any specular and without any reflections? so i can see color-only result.

It is Vray, but VrayforC4D.
That is special, as VrayforC4D combines the Power of Vray with the material-system of C4D, where you can stack materials. Also SSS2 is available as a separate shader as well as it is integrated inside a Vray-material special designed for C4D.
You cannot translate that exactly into max, so far I know.

[RK-art]

Not now, but maybe in a few days.

[argoabba]

hello, if someone could say what good and bad about this image i would be very thankfull
this is MR fast skin sss, maya

[/url][url="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/001as.png/"]http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/3623/001as.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/001kbx.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[everlite]

im not expert, but i'd say the bottom lip looks too large. The eyes look a touch dead, that highlight needs to be more white/intense and the eye lashes are clearly a texture map, try using a hair plugin for whichever app you're using.

Dave

[CHRiTTeR]

It is Vray, but VrayforC4D.
That is special, as VrayforC4D combines the Power of Vray with the material-system of C4D, where you can stack materials. Also SSS2 is available as a separate shader as well as it is integrated inside a Vray-material special designed for C4D.
You cannot translate that exactly into max, so far I know.

vray for max has all that aswell

[Hakushinkan]

Hey all,

I was wondering - what do you use/do to get your SSS textures?
I'm working on a model and trying to achieve realistic skin, but I have many problems.

I'm using the SSS fast skin shader, I've tried many different settings for lighting, color, radii, etc... I can never get a realistic result without textures, and when I load textures (I hand paint them in ZBrush) it looks a bit better, but still not that great. I think the textures are not all that hot as well.

Any guide I can follow on that, specifically on painting/making textures for use in skin shaders?

[RK-art]

Some new tests.
The first two are VrayforC4d:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=163118&stc=1 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=163118&stc=1)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=163119&stc=1

the last one is made with the new Mental Ray for C4D:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=163120&stc=1

[argoabba]

hello all!

everlite (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=77909) thank you for comment! I noticed them today only

So this 1 more wip and I prepare another one with eyes and lips tweaked and also some body shots

If someone interested i experimented a lot with trying to get Vctoria from Poser to some 3D application and make skin looks nice, now I think I close to finish. But I'm not modeler and such things as eyelashes and hair for me is a hard job and it rise rendertimes drammatically, so I get with things what Poser gives and try to make best of what already done there. Because Im not trying to create 1 picture, I want to make mass, more like comixes but without big rendertimes and headache with small handmade details which I liek to see on pictures of course but just cant yet spend time on it.

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/7101/07teeth.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/07teeth.png/)

[argoabba]

#1 Face (1 light source, no Final Gathering or GI, some special subdermal map )
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/8480/01teeth2.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/593/01teeth2.png/)

#2 Face (1 light source, no Final Gathering or GI, maya - no subdermal map)
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4153/02teeth2.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/02teeth2.png/)

#3 Face + hair (1 light source, no Final Gathering or GI, some special subdermal map like in #1)
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4599/03teeth2.th.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/03teeth2.png/)

#4 Bodyshot (same 1 light source, no Final Gathering or GI)
see attached

#5 Bodyshot (same 1 light source, Final Gathering enabled, no GI)
see attached

I'am sorry If i post too much shots (as I think it never too much when finding perfect technology) - please comment if you have any likes/dislikes.

On faceshots on bottom teeth there is small highlight from light source - this problem I see already.
Sorry about making no FG shot for face - rendering face with hair would take too long on my PC.

Me personally like faceshot with "special subdermal map (#1 and #3)". Problem is I got this map from some website, but I don't know how to make it by myself for body and limbs as well and how to tweak it for face. I can show it for sure and show the source where I got it so we think together how to make it so everyone can use this method.

[MrRid]

My first stab at Simple Skin using Daz' Stephanie 3 exported to Lightwave.
Miri (http://www.box.net/shared/static/jnxvcuvj9m4uif5aoo76.jpg) http://www.box.net/shared/static/jnxvcuvj9m4uif5aoo76.jpg The Daz textures were used as is, without modifying. I dont plan to do any more with this for now. Was just wanting to see how a default Daz model would look with some SSS.

Animation- http://www.box.net/shared/static/u7zhxl83rl5vegonxr5m.mov (r-click and 'save as', and will probably appear dark on a Mac)
YT- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL80fpke528
'Irina' body morph by Blackhearted, and 'Miri' head morph by Sarsa and Thorne.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL80fpke528

[RK-art]

VrayforC4D with a new shader-setup:

http://www.rk-art.de/Art_Stuff/Vray/Vray-Set_neu_RK-art.jpg

[sijen]

great result!
can you show shading network screenshot?

sijen@sndkt.com.ua

[learner88]

Hi all, this is my little practice project:

The texturing is currently work in progress, there is the bump map only and it's not yet finished.
Once i've completed the bump map, i planned to use it to create the diffuse color map and reflection/specular map.

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/605/render12.jpg
http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/4962/render13.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/567/render14.jpg

[learner88]

Here are some updates with colour map!

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg684/scaled.php?server=684&filename=render17.jpg&res=medium
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg18/scaled.php?server=18&filename=render21.jpg&res=medium
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg694/scaled.php?server=694&filename=render22.jpg&res=medium
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg600/scaled.php?server=600&filename=render20.jpg&res=medium

[rajbir]

Hi,
I have been just starting to experiment with the new Vray fastsss2 shader.

Think I am sort of getting what I want, but needs to look way more realistic..

(as you can see I am trying to work out the best lighting too, which also makes a big difference).


Any suggestions on what to improve, lighting, how to make it better etc..?

Adam
:)

ps.. the Model is a poser model.. no need to comment about it as this is just about skin shader testing.

How are you doing the eyes? any information on lighting and shader and is it linear workflow?