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View Full Version : "renderPP"... software render particle in maya and mentalray


Don3Don
05-29-2008, 05:12 PM
[renderPP]

since, maya and mentalRay can't render those "hardware particle type" in software mode. but 3dsmax, houdini and renderman can handle that naturally, I start to think how possible can it be done with pure maya.

after long time waiting and hope maya's new version will support that, but..........(no major update dynamic for many years), I start to give it a try to test it..
I use a lot sprite particle in my past production work, and I really like renderman's curve render.(renderman support hardware particle type way better than maya renderer and mental ray.)
First particle type I want to render I call it "curveSprite", that is like a patch but curve along with particle motion....


I do that thru mel, in hard and stupid way, cause I don't familiar with shader writing.
until now it can support:
rgbPP
opacityPP
radiusPP
indexPP (when texture apply, texture's seq number)

still have many issue to fix and improve...
function add...etc

Here are some results...

cause every patch is really a real geometry, it can apply normal shader, render with shadow, render thru maya's renderer or mentalray. But mentalray can handle far more particles.

Aikiman
05-29-2008, 10:04 PM
Hi Don,

That looks like some pretty cool stuff there. Are you able to attach any other kind of geometry? I guess what I getting at is like particle instancing but with rgbPP as well.

phildog
05-30-2008, 02:42 AM
nice work
but actually you can render all the hardware types in mental ray now :)
(maya 2008)

Don3Don
05-30-2008, 03:03 AM
Aikiman:
It's possible for instancer idea... but now I just focus on the sprite type. I would give a try then.

phildog:
I focus to make the sprite type particle, mentalRay can handle it in 2008? I really need to try that out then,
since I'm making a "curveSprite" type which it won't have it... I will keep going to make this script work.

curve sprite -> sprite curve along with the particle motion.



don.

jupiterjazz
05-30-2008, 01:52 PM
nice work
but actually you can render all the hardware types in mental ray now :)
(maya 2008)

(editing: first version a bit too harsh :) )

Oh sure you can render them, and that's it.
There is *no support* for any shading PP attributes (eg rgbPP, opacityPP ect...), no optimized point primitive and crappy motionblur. In addition the "copy" of deep shadows the mentals called "detail shadows" have several nasty little bugs that makes them unusable for good selfshadowing (except if yo are a developer and build your tools to supply these lacks).

Very production ready...



I focus to make the sprite type particle, mentalRay can handle it in 2008? I really need to try that out then, since I'm making a "curveSprite" type which it won't have it... I will keep going to make this script work.
don.

Use 3delight for Maya or RenderMan for Maya: both offer kick-ass particle support and a professional level of customization, with my preference over the first for more fine-tuning (and besides the first license is for free, even for commercial usage).


p

Don3Don
05-30-2008, 03:31 PM
jupiterjazz:
I totally agree with u that 3delight or prman can handle particle way more better, cause we are using prman to render particles in daily work. That's why I really like the ability to render particles as point and riCurve...etc

but for some reason, I would like to do this crazy stuff with pure maya only.
see how far I can go/push the limit of maya's renderer or mentalRay to handle sprite particle.
and some how, many people are just stick with maya and MR only.

Scob
05-30-2008, 03:31 PM
Use 3delight for Maya or RenderMan for Maya: both offer kick-ass particle support and a professional level of customization, with my preference over the first for more fine-tuning (and besides the first license is for free, even for commercial usage).

p

Hi ,
First Congrats for your nomination of the autodesk master !! ;)

So with 3delight there some bug with sprite and deep shadow, it make some straight ...
Perhaps it s fix now ?
(I opened a thread about that on the 3delight forum , and it s funny it was already you , that explain some interesting things about that.. ^^)

Cheers

Jerome

jupiterjazz
05-30-2008, 03:51 PM
jupiterjazz:
I totally agree with u that 3delight or prman can handle particle way more better, cause we are using prman to render particles in daily work. That's why I really like the ability to render particles as point and riCurve...etc

but for some reason, I would like to do this crazy stuff with pure maya only.


Tarantino would say that is an "exercise in futility", but I do now understand, well lemme know what you manage ;)


see how far I can go/push the limit of maya's renderer or mentalRay to handle sprite particle.
and some how, many people are just stick with maya and MR only.


Heh... bad habits are hard to break.. ;)


p

phildog
05-30-2008, 03:51 PM
Hi Paolo
yeah i must admit ive only tested them (hardware type particles in maya 2008 mental ray) to see that they work. havent used it in production as yet so i wouldnt know how good (or not) it is.
but yeah, 3delight is great. easy to use too. some small fixes it needs tho.
like outputting particles in raster space by default?? strange. maybe im doing something wrong in my set up but i found a work around by editing the ribs. otherwise, pretty cool product.

jupiterjazz
05-30-2008, 03:55 PM
Hi ,
First Congrats for your nomination of the autodesk master !! ;)


Thanks man!


So with 3delight there some bug with sprite and deep shadow, it make some straight ...
Perhaps it s fix now ?
(I opened a thread about that on the 3delight forum , and it s funny it was already you , that explain some interesting things about that.. ^^)
Cheers
Jerome

Should be fixed now, but I didn't check. If it was related I see that the volume interpretation has been added to deep shadows, but I did not try it yet. Ask there.

p

jupiterjazz
05-30-2008, 04:04 PM
Hi Paolo
yeah i must admit ive only tested them (hardware type particles in maya 2008 mental ray) to see that they work. havent used it in production as yet so i wouldnt know how good (or not) it is.


Hehe, to use an euphemism I'd say that they are "horribly bad".


but yeah, 3delight is great. easy to use too. some small fixes it needs tho.
like outputting particles in raster space by default?? strange. maybe im doing something wrong in my set up but i found a work around by editing the ribs. otherwise, pretty cool product.

Yeah it is cool!

For points particles default is raster so they stay same size weather they are far or near the camera (there is usage for this in fact, when dust/sand blows it does not become a disc when is near your eyes) but you can easily change it at RIB export to:

"constant string widthspace" [ "world" ]

with a search & replace routine or manage to change it with a RI MEL binding (haven't tried that).

Lots of goodies have and will be added for particles, like override type, ( including optimized textured disks) and new stuff. Adding UI for what you mentioned is trivial and is in already in the list.

p


btw -> www.modernmayhem.com neat stuff man!

phildog
05-30-2008, 04:20 PM
hehe thanks man.
hey what was the fix for the line artifact in 3delight for deep shadows and sprites.
is it because the sprite always faces the camera and does so when the shadow pass is calculated from the light (therefore a 'camera'). and then only appears to registers the midpoint in the shadow map?
ive used workarounds like rendering a different shadow from a light in the same spot and used spheres etc but would like to know what the actual fix was.
thanks



p


btw -> www.modernmayhem.com (http://www.modernmayhem.com) neat stuff man!

Don3Don
05-30-2008, 04:46 PM
is it because the sprite always faces the camera and does so when the shadow pass is calculated from the light (therefore a 'camera'). and then only appears to registers the midpoint in the shadow map?
ive used workarounds like rendering a different shadow from a light in the same spot and used spheres etc but would like to know what the actual fix was.

u pretty much have answer to your question...
so u could lock the sprite normal to the cam. could fix it.

jupiterjazz
05-30-2008, 04:53 PM
Answering both.
The reason is the one you mentioned.
I dunno if/how it is "fixed" (note that this is not really a bug, it's more like the expected behaviour for sprites - read the long discussion in the 3delight forum).
As said I still have to try if it's fine now, when I try I will let you know ;)


p

Don3Don
05-30-2008, 07:49 PM
300 particles, depthmap shadow, maya software render.
render time : 5 second.

phildog
05-31-2008, 01:02 AM
ah ok cheers.
not a perfect solution tho because youll get 'angled' shadows. ie if your sprite is circular (transparency) youd expect a circular shadow but having the sprite on an angle to the shadow casting cam would make out of perspective shadows... i guess youd need a shadow map that uses bounding box info rather than surface point P. dunno if thats possible. (or custom bounding box? sphere?)
just thinking out loud. :)

u pretty much have answer to your question...
so u could lock the sprite normal to the cam. could fix it.

don3don : very impressive work.
i can see alot of uses for that! very cool!

Don3Don
05-31-2008, 08:07 AM
phil:


yes...it will have problem if light is coming from side. that is the limitation of sprite particle to me.But if u figure it out, pls let us know.



don3don : very impressive work.
i can see alot of uses for that! very cool!


thx man..
but doing it in this way, high particle count will crash maya. say over 10k.
still try to push the limit.
and no motion blur right now...

ovspianist
12-16-2008, 02:48 AM
It's a good thread, why does it stop?

Can't wait to see more discussion on this, and the straight line problem, it's always a problem, a big one.
Do you guys have some good solution for that?

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