UV Unwrap : Stuck at the nose

[LFShade]

Noses are best left in a seamless mapping with the rest of the face, or else it's difficult to avoid artifacts at the seams. It can get tricky, though, since noses will typically contain many overlapping UV's in a default cylindrical/spherical/planar unwrap. In my experience, what works best is to simply relax the UV's in the nose area until there are no overlapping faces. The only caveat is that this will shrink the UV faces down and cause a stretching effect, which you can reasonably overcome by using a sufficiently high-res bitmap.

If you are unable to relax UV's directly, you can clone your mesh and apply a relax modifier to the verts in the nose area, then map the clone, morph it back into the original and collapse.

RH

[ivo D]

how do you relax the uv mapping? notting like that in max ref.. only the normall relax modifier.. but how?

[LFShade]

I forgot to mention that you'll need a script to get at UV relax. You can find it on ScriptSpot (http://www.scriptspot.com/download.asp?ID=1804).

The script is written by Martin Coven; here's a description:
"UVW Relax simply puts a UI to functionality that is already in Max 5. Place the tool somewhere in the UVW Unwrap editor (either in on of the menus or in your QuadMenu). "


RH

[ivo D]

thx.. but.. so it aint possbiel with normall relax.. ?...

its strange, isnt it doable without extra scripts.. and seams..

if so.. than this really sucks blarg hehe

[LFShade]

Well, like I said you can do it by using a relax modifier on a clone of your model; it just takes a few extra steps to get there. It shouldn't be too difficult to just use the script, though -- you just run the script from the Maxscript menu, and then assign it to the UVW editing quadmenu from the Customize UI dialog. If you have any questions about installing it, I'm here to help:)

RH

[ivo D]

yea srry.. i dont get it.. blah im bad :)...

well i know how to load plugins.. and scripts but mostly they have ther own menu that instantly pops up..

for the rest i dont kno ***:P hehe

so i just run it.. than how asign it to the unwrap uvw modi ?

[LFShade]

Okay, here's a beginner's guide to adding this MacroScript to the UI:)

First things first, you'll need to know where the Macroscript will be located once installed. Macroscripts are assigned to categories, and it makes it much easier to find later on if you know what category it's in. From the Maxscript menu (on the main menu), open the UVW relax script. You're looking for a line containing category:"something" -- the "something" is the category the Macroscript can be found in. Remember it.

After running/evaluating the script, go to Customize->Customize User Interface (again, from the main menu). A dialog will pop up, with some tabs across the top; go to the one that says "Quadmenus" (or similar, I can't rememeber the exact title). On the lefthand side there will be a couple of dropdown lists, the second one is the one you'll want to pay attention to. Drop it down and find the category from earlier. The list below should have a "UVW Relax" (or similar) command somewhere in it. If you're still with me, then you're almost there!

On the right side of the dialog is another dropdown list. This one contains all of the various quadmenus available to the system. You're looking for the one that's available from inside the UVW Unwrap editor. Again, I don't remember precisely what it's called, but you should have no trouble recognizing it. When you select it, the area below will give you a representation of the quadmenu. It's laid out sort of like the quadmenu itself, with 4 little boxes for the 4 "quadrants". Clicking on a box will display a list of the commands assigned to that quadrant. All you need to do now is choose a quadrant (doesn't matter which one), and drag-and-drop the UVW Relax command in among the other commands listed there.

Close up the Customize UI dialog and you're all set. Now when you open up the UVW editor, select some verts, and right-click, you should be able to find the relax command right where you put it. Congratulations!

RH

[ivo D]

thanks..it works the script :D learned another thing.. but still the nose wont get right:( damn.. blaarg

[gaggle]

screenshots screenshots screenshots!

[EricChadwick]

Here's an example of relaxing the mesh to get better UVs.
http://www.kniffen.ca/index.php?target=tutorials/texture/UV1.php
Even though it's Maya, similar principles apply in 3ds max.

Here's another, using FFD on a boot.
http://www.davidtitusproductions.com/bw/tutorial_uv.html

[ivo D]

well i tryed to do the relax uvw modifier(that script).. but relaxing the uvws in the uvw editor diddnt help clean up the sideof the nose..

so now i just put a relax modifier onto the mesh..
and than .. put a cyl uvw map on it.

so now the nose is flat and it fits.. but will this work when i put whole my mapping right and edit the uvws.. and than .. mak a map and put it on my normall mesh.. will it fit on the nose right?

caus im not planning to spend.. 3 hours time on editing my uvw for nothing:(...

[EricChadwick]

1. Collapse the model to Editable Mesh or Poly.
2. Copy the object.
3. Select the nose and ears vertices, use Soft Selection.
4. Add a Relax modifier, adjust.
5. Add the UVW Mapping modifier, adjust.
6. Add a Morpher modifier, grab the original as a target, turn it up to 100%.

This should make it much easier to adjust.

[ivo D]

what do you mean by use a morpher? cant i put the texture on the copy.. do i have to morph.. that modified one back to its original form? damn thats a pain in the ass aint it ?

btw thx for all your help :)

[EricChadwick]

For me it's easier, but maybe the modifier stack is confusing.

The object with the Morpher in its stack is set up to be very interactive. Adjust the vert selection, adjust the soft selection, adjust the UVW modifier, etc. All while seeing it update automatically on your finished model (the end result of the stack). Just make sure all mods are set to "Show End Result". You can even add a UVW Unwrap at the top if you want.

In the end though, whatever floats your boat.

[ivo D]

i did a quick try out..flattend the ears and nose.. like this

model edit mesh, selected the nose mesh..and the ears.. put a relax modit on it.. flattend them out..than made a edit mesh again..so the relax dissapears from the stack.. and i im in edit mesh again..so i can select the whole face(polys).. to put a uvw on it

so i putted and cyl mapping on it.. than unwrapped.

exportet with texporter.. opend it in photoshop.. put a checker over the mapping..and saved it.. than i put the texture on my model that i had cloned in the begiing..

but now it aint good to :(:(

[MRAY]

Hi Ivo!!
I seem to be having a little prob with the UV's on the nose area just wondering what methods you've been using to overcome the over lapping?

i found this post in my search for answers :)
and i saw its an older post so i figure by now you figured something out hehe (hopefully for my sake :).

Thanks
-Mray-

[EricChadwick]

Wow, I'm still subscribed to this thread.

Anyhow, just yesterday I used the method I described in my 2nd post. Except I used it to UV a very bumpy cave wall, with lots of protrusions. Worked great... very helpful to see the end result on the original pre-relax vertex positions, all the while being able to edit the Relax settings.

Sounds to me like ivo D missed the last step in my instructions. Also, no need to collapse... just add a Mesh Select with nothing selected, then add the UVW Mapping modifier.

Oh well, I can see how it could become confusing. The whole modifier stack history-dependence concept took me a little time to get used to.

I've also heard artists just using some solid color along the side of the nose, leaving the UV-stretch alone by avoiding it altogether. But that's for game art, where resolution is generally lower. Ah here it was...
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~polycount/ubb/Forum8/HTML/003925.html

[MRAY]

Hi Eric!
Well i've been messin with the whole morph idea but everytime i try to morph the nose back i can see the stretching of the checker in the viewport it goes back to the original ugly poo-poo hehe i must be doing something wrong. :(

heres the way my modifier stack is set up --
-------------
Morpher
Mesh Select
Unwrap UVW
UVW Mapping - (Cylindrical)
Mesh Select
Relax
Editable Poly
--------------
Do i have something that shouldn't be there??

Thanks for all your help!!
-Mray-

[EricChadwick]

It's easy to mess it up. The modifier stack can be unforgiving at times.

Here's a max5 example.
http://www.ericchadwick.com/examples/images/nose_relax.zip
And a screenshot.
http://www.ericchadwick.com/examples/images/nose_relax.gif

You're always going to see some stretching, for me it's just a matter of where I want to spread it around. The nose on the left is mapped without Relax (and coincidentally it's also the morph target), the nose on the right is Relaxed. I used soft-selection in Editable Poly to not Relax the area around the nose, so I can just relax the parts that are perpendicular to the planar UV projection.

Hope this helps.

[MRAY]

Hey Eric!
ok i'm about to give this another shot :) i've got one quick question for ya though -- Whats your prefurred method on mapping a high poly head Cylindrical, spherical , etc??

Cause whenever i do a cylindrical map the checkers on face all turn from squars into rectangles (stretching across) why is that??


Thanks man!!
-Mray-

[EricChadwick]

Doesn't really matter which. I think the best way to approach it is to only use Spherical/Cylindrical on the front/sides/back but not on the top/under chin. Use planar projections top/under chin, another cylindrical for the neck, then stitch all the pieces together.

A quick trick to fix the non-square stretching is to adjust the U or V tiling to get the projection square, then tweak in Unwrap.

Chris Kniffen has some good images in his Maya tutorial. I'm always posting this link because his screenshots are so great.
http://www.kniffen.ca/index.php?target=tutorials/texture/UV1.php

[MRAY]

Hi Eric!
Could Planar Maps be used for the nose say Planar for the right side then a planar for the bridge, etc then put them all together ?

Also whats the differance between stitch and weld vert options?

One more question :) when moving verts in UV editor do you have to move all the verts brcause when you move one another part gets distorted so you have to move that one then another then another and so on so at what point does it stop? it seems like i have to spread all the verts out by hand for the entire face
just to get the nose mapped correctly. Is this right or is there another way?


Thanks for all the help!
-Mray-

[EricChadwick]

Sure planar-map if you want. But that creates more seams, which most texture artists like to avoid. Unless you exclusively use a 3d paint program for all your painting, then seams don't really matter (although uneven pixel density still matters, but that's a different issue really).

Weld is one vert to one vert (or many collapsed into one). Stitch lets you weld edges (still verts really, but a bunch at a time). Try it out. Read the help file. In fact, it's always a good bet to read the help, and play around with the tools, before asking.

If you are removing distortions vert-by-vert then yes sometimes it can propagate on and on and on. Up to you to decide what smearing is acceptable. You'll always have some, no matter what... unfolding a 3d shape into totally-flat 2D is impossible, unless you separate the whole model into separate UV triangles (automatic mapping at its worst).

But for the most part I don't go vert-by-vert too much anymore. If it's getting that bad, then the initial mapping should be re-configured. More seams, or better seam placement, or better projection alignment, or a good relax UVs tool (not max's default), etc.

Hope that helps.

[MRAY]

Their would still be seams even if you stitch all the parts of the nose together?

THanks!
-Mray-

[EricChadwick]

You going to stitch it back into the face? If not then yes you get more seams. But if you decide to stitch it back into the face, then you end up with distortion again.

[MRAY]

Hmm.. looks like i'm gonna half to play with my options and just figure out something that works. :)

THanks Again,
-Mray-

[EricChadwick]

Best way to learn.

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