Still - Human Tower [Nudity]

[Freestyler]

wow, looks great, good modeling and texturing,
but it doesn't look very alive, or is that your intention?

[l7d]

awesome stuff, looks almost biblical

[S_3D_A]

Wow wicked strike!

[CGmonkey]

Utterly awesome! :buttrock:

[Egyt]

*removing the guy at the bottom and watching em fall down*
I like it very very much! gj!

[mv]

Piece of Art!!!
that's what I think of it! I don't even think about the cg, just about the intense composition and feeling that emanates from it...
just one crit : they are all the same model. Diversity please! but the poses are excellent, anyway..


:buttrock:
oh, by the way, 5 stars.

[Chewey]

Interesting. Looks like a lot of copy and paste going on. I'm guessing the lack of hair might indicate that they're supposed to be in some location where it's very hot. They also appear to be blind and toothless.

Are these Poser models?

[ed209]

Very nice. It reminds me of a water fontain. :)

[PureFire]

what are they standing on?....looks weird....but very nice work all the same.

[janabsolin]

Very very nice! Good job.....:applause:

[CIM]

Those guys need pants. :surprised

[Hugh]

It reminds me of Meats Meier's sculpture - can't remember what it was called - the one in the bottom left corner of the pic at the top of this thread (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49605)

Not that I'm saying it's a copy at all - they are very different... that was just the first thing that came to mind!

[digiralph]

Very good work!
I think there are many individual bodies but not all as one.

[-JT-]

The women look a lot like Poser women, this annoys me (i just see Poser before i notice the other art).
Otherwise the rendering is really interesting, nice use of colors.

[zeromancer1972]

just: :applause:

[Aeroplane]

:thumbsup: that's awesome!:applause:

[Chruser]

Strike strikes again. :)

Spectacular stuff, seriously. :bounce:

[phoenix2k]

wow... great stuff!! :thumbsup:

I seriously doubt taht these are poser models, if you think they are just visit his website (http://www.designpicture.com/) and think no more :D...

nice work!! :beer:

[Blackhorse]

oh man!this is awesome!
if the ground burns up some hell fire, it would be more sensitive!
:banghead:

[Radacci]

attack of the clones!!
oh, its only statues:rolleyes: silly me!
looks good, but parhapps some variation in characters?
you have some other chars you did you can use?
nevertheless, it looks good :)

[duke4d]

good man . good job
free your mind:bounce:

[John Lee]

WOW VERY ARTISTIC

JOhn

[Milho]

Like it!

About the poser stuff, I don't think you are to blame if the models look like poser stuff. Poser is to blame that they started lots of 3d crap. It is so fake.
But that's not the discussion here :wip:

And I don't think hair or (open) eyes would improve this piece. This way the anonymity wouldn't be expressed. It gives a static and dead, but also alive impression (because of the skin color).
I like the background and the dirt, too. Very nice

My critic is that the guy has a very characteristic chin. This is the reason why we realize the cloning. A more poser like ;) "standard" man would fit better to the anonymity I talked about IMO.

:thumbsup:

[Starv]

Very cool. Although them not having any hair is sort of a 3d-stereotype. :)

Reminds me a little about Vigelands Monolith (http://www.planetware.com/photos/N/OSLOVLD2.HTM), but it obviously isn't really very similar to it.

[rolhionjs]

First of all, i want to thank you all for the feebbacks and thanks to the mod who plugged the image on the front page ! :)

Well, Before talking about technics i used, i first wanted to explain the goal and significiance of the image.

I used humans to represent the structure of human society, social being, and life of humans. I used the same characters duplicated to show the same matter we're all made, and in this way demontrates we're all the same.
However we're not all in the same being, same position compared to the others and that's why i created this hierarchy between characters. Some are trying to reach a conscious level, a social level but in each way, we're always the same person. That's why some characters are in the top of their own compared to their mates which are at the bottom of their life. Some choose to react by looking forward, looking up, and some failed by crounching and looking down.
In each way, they are all here in the same area, but their way of life is different, some in the shadows, some in top of the lights.

This vision is to show we're all looking for something, or someone, but in a way, we're all blind and speechless in front of life, in front of reality troubles we could cross... Some can get through, other can't...

In a way : we're all master of our destiny, even if sometimes we're unable to see things around...

Anyway... ;)

Thanks all !

About technics, i used a compositing with the background i painted under photoshop, and then applyied my meshes some copy and paste of the same, by changing poses. So to answer about the fact they're all the same : yes it's my own decision to have keep only 2 different meshes to represent the same humans, the same truth or mistakes in each of us.

Nothing special about rendering, except i used a dome and radiosity for rendering.

I minimized texturing to keep this uniformity on characters. That's all ! :)

[Psycholink]

Nice nice :D
what software you use?
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[KolbyJukes]

ooo arty CG!

I understand your intention with the piece, but when looking at the pic, that message doesn't come acroos (least to me). The models themeselves are pretty nice, as is the texturing.

I think you could add a lot to the piece by adding some more expressiveness to the character's poses, as well as some facial expressions.

-Kol

[Dhin]

Ever been to Norway? It looks like one of the sulptures in Oslo, Vigelandsparken. The Artist that did the statues wanted to portray the struggles of life. I'm reminded of it by your piece.

[luima]

i like it!!

[Dr. Bang]

Wow! Hung like a horse

[katon]

very interesting, i like it though good work.

[Tellerve]

Hmm, I know this doesn't seem to happen often in cgtalk but I don't really like it, and here's why and how I think it could become better.

The people all resemble each other a lot, too much for me. All their hands are in similar positions, along with their faces, it just looks like the same model duplicated and sorta stuck together. To me there isn't the emotional impact I think you were trying for apparently currently although with a bit of work I think could be there.

Tellerve

[malcolmvexxed]

groovy, I understood the message about ascension, but even if you are taking the same model and cloning to make your point, i feel that it could have been helped by varying a little bit, the ones on the bottom really don't express any sort of sadness or lower status to me other than being on the bottom of the pic if that makes sese. Mostly i think maybe their poses are a little bit stiff especially on the middle female character. if characters are unhappy to be in social position at the bottom, shouldn't they be skinnier or something, shouldn't some of them have their hands turned up etc?? still i really like the ambition behind it and the fact its' trying to make a point

good stuff

p.s. its' interesting that if this were traditional art, we'd all be talking about how skilled a "painter" were for making so many characters look identical. In CG the tools are so advanced it's a detriment, something we criticize, which i think proves once and for all that everybody realizes cg is not on the same level as traditional art in terms of the skill it takes.

[ezunfela]

Really like it...looks great.:buttrock:

[urgaffel]

I have to agree with tellerve and malclomvexxed. It's technically good, but it doesn't have the emotional impact you seem to want it to have. It's nice, but I didn't read anything special into it since all the characters are too similar. They can all be the same model, but they need a little more expressive poses to make it look more hierarchial(?).

For example, the one at the top of the ladder would look a lot more happy than the ones at the bottom that has given up. Doesn't have to be an explcitily joyous pose, it would be more effective if it was subtle, but the difference is there. I think that would take it to the next level.

Still, it's a very nice still.

[Hickory]

Well, by the look of everyone's expressions, I would say someone broke wind. The ideas I feel are genereated about life and being human would be that we all break wind among groups of people...sometimes it effects people sometimes it doesn't. Either way, it draws a different reaction from each individual...hehehe...

good work. Reminds me of Meats work with all the people growing out of the cube...good stuff...give the people a more living look would be the only crit...

[Wiro]

After I read that your (Strike's) piece contained a message or meaning I started looking for it with interest. I was already expecting it to represent the struggle of humanity or society but was hoping there was more in it. I was a bit disappointed to read in your reply that I was right after all because so often in the artworks I've seen of (naked?) humans climbing on eachother...this is what it's been about and it's becoming a bit of a cliche. But that isn't bad in itself if it's really well executed.

As for the work itself, it's very nicely modeled, lit and framed. But I'd liked to see more determination in the poses and expressions. They all seem to be in half-action and all have practically the same expressions. There is a lack of tension. The society climbers are indistinguishable from the ones that have given up save for their space in the horizontal hierarchy.
I think that with more thought going into the body language and more of a flow/interaction between the people...a person looking with envy at a person higher up in the hierarchy for example, or someone leaning on the person below them...it would have more integrity.

Wiro

[ZVAN]

wow, u even study the anatomy of the groin and testicles.. hahahaha! >) neeway.. i respect ur work! welldone!:scream:

[jtk77]

thats great! I'd change some of the people a little to add diversity.

[Kinematics]

Fantastic job there. Love the rendering and textures.
I understand what you are trying to portray completely but like everybody else i would say that there isnt an emotional impact and i had to actually read your explanation to understand.

I'd think to make this scene have a better impact...the expressions and hand actions need to be different. Like the ones on top , some perhaps should be smiling while some not (too portray that some arent happy in the world although their high in position). Also perhaps sadness in the ones below or Even happiness...further more you should change the poses of one or two below as if they are trying to propel themselves up...make them look like their straining( hands pushing down on others and an expression of tensing of muscles) you know...climb up the ladder or rise and replace the best.That kinda thing. Well that was just my ideas .

[Windex]

that's deep man, nice

to the people who say i don't get it and the piece doesn't and i quote "that message doesn't come acroos " i say WHat do u want him to do??? have the people spell society/life with their bodies???

but i like the idea of ppl having/showing diff emotions (i.e.)* people at the buttom are sad and as you look up, the people who are higher are happier/smile more.

or follow Kinematics' advice IF you want to show Struggle

*what is i.e. anyways, "in example"??? it should be for example , wuts going on? it say's: "that is to say; in other words " or is it?

[Mr_BUG]

strike comme d'hab c la classe. Superbe étude anatomique.

Nice job, as usual.

[S E D A H]

Nice job Srrike but that look like exactly some sculpture done By Meats its interesting but the idae was already done by other one
........................
Great work anyway
hope you will be more original next time

[davids]

Originally posted by malcolmvexxed
groovy, I understood the message about ascension, but even if you are taking the same model and cloning to make your point, i feel that it could have been helped by varying a little bit, the ones on the bottom really don't express any sort of sadness or lower status to me other than being on the bottom of the pic if that makes sese. Mostly i think maybe their poses are a little bit stiff especially on the middle female character. if characters are unhappy to be in social position at the bottom, shouldn't they be skinnier or something, shouldn't some of them have their hands turned up etc?? still i really like the ambition behind it and the fact its' trying to make a point

good stuff

p.s. its' interesting that if this were traditional art, we'd all be talking about how skilled a "painter" were for making so many characters look identical. In CG the tools are so advanced it's a detriment, something we criticize, which i think proves once and for all that everybody realizes cg is not on the same level as traditional art in terms of the skill it takes.

I agree with the top part about getting the emotion out more (by the way its a really nice piece Strike) but the part: "cg is not on the same level as traditional art in terms of the skill it takes" I don't agree because to this day the absolute best cg is still not completely life like and not only does a cg artist have to posess traditional skills but technical ability aswell. It takes equal if not more time to do a life like cg human compared to a painting. Example Gollum how many people worked on him?

[rolhionjs]

Well thanks for your replies, and ideas.

I'm gonna try to answer about the different way you talked about.

It was not easy for me to represent these humans in the way i wanted to, because i miss some technical skills in IKs and bones, so i choosed to make something simple for me. I agree about the fact some characters would need more expressive poses, and i hope to clarify this in the future.

Anyway, It doesn't change the way i didn't want to make the highers more happy than the others, because i think they are expected more than they actually have. (that's for me the human being : when you have something, you always want more), so i choose to not show happy expression in this piece.

About the messages, i explained the main thing, but there's more to see in it : if you watch to the main form of the mass tower, it reminds something more psychological, kinda freudian (i talk about a phallic form of the piece), and the meaning of this. I also put carefully women always on top compared to men : if you watch the first men below, he's below woman, and this fact even to the top of the tower. The top character is a woman. This way was to put in front of us that women are getting more and more present in the world, in men lives, and important for them. I don't know exactly how to explain this, but my idea was to show this importance in life. You know, about the sentence : What woman wants, God wants it, meaning women are the key... This is my point of view, but maybe not yours, and i'm hetero, so this can be explained, so don't get mad about it ok ? :)

I admit it's far to be perfect, and i'm not. I just have to say i have alot to learn, and this piece is for me the one i mentally have more achieved compared to the past ones, and i hope to do somethings better in the future :) I'm human, and i don't expected so many replies, so thank you all for you ideas, and feedbacks. It can just help me for the future images i'll do :)

[rolhionjs]

Another thing : some of you talked about a sculpture by Meat... Well i didn't know it, so i'm sorry about the fact it looks like it...

About the fact CG is different than traditional tools, i agree. But what is important in art ? Technic : surely. A message : definitly. I use CG as a tool to send a message, and like traditional tools, i'm still learning to use it, so sure it's not the same kind of critics, but critics are founded. Thanks.

Strike | always learning

[DAREONER]

yes, ca fait tres meats meier !
en tous cas c'est dingue le nombre d'illust 3d que tu fait, (perso je trouve que tu ne les pousse pas assez-a part legion), bref un vrai arraché et passionné c'est cool.

[alex_m1s1n_user]

Great idea. i cant give it credit for modelling since it looks poserish. Nice rendering.

[jtk77]

can't give credit for the modeling? what kinda drugs are you on?
Do you really think those are modified poser bodys?
I would love to see differences between the people myself ,but definitly think the modeling is top notch.
anyway, I don't think you took Meats idea either since his isn't orginal to begin with,also it doesn't look like his,
further, I do believe towers of naked people have been in popula seralism for a bit of time, but I could be wrong, and who cares if it is. All art is inspired by something, even if its life itself.
Heres meats site by the way,
http://www.sketchovision.com/
he's a cool guy STRIKE, you should look at his stuff when you can.

[cutepixie]

it actually looks like they were statues but are coming alive....very thinkworthy **yes i made that word up :D

Fantastic good job :thumbsup:

[Seo2]

I just have one word to describe this: beutiful!!!!

exelent work it looks really nice!

[hanzo]

wiro said it! :shame:

but great modelling anyway..

[meats]

jtk77 - I don't think anyone is saying that Strike stole my idea, just that it reminded them of it. I'm sure that when he made it, it was original to him as mine was to me. Someone told me that Frazetta has a painting with this same theme, but I don't think I have ever seen it, I would like to check it out. I wouldn't be surprised if a friend had it as a poster on his wall, and I looked at for ten seconds ten years ago, that's how the seeds get planted.... anything any artist makes contains a small piece of everthing they have ever seen or heard.

Not to hijack this thread, but I think that this Animation (http://www.sketchovision.com/animation/table.html) is my favorite thing that came out of my own exploration of this idea.

Nice work, Strike, great image! :thumbsup:

[alex_m1s1n_user]

jtk77: I will not give credit for premade models; Those are poser models:thumbsdow , i can smell them miles away.

[Max4d]

And I can smell your jealousy from miles away.

Great work Strike, keep it up :D:D:D

Greetz Max4d

[jtk77]

meats- naw didn;t really mean to say that he stole it , I merry took what was kinda emplyed in the thread by others and said I didn't beleive he did.
So anyone else think those are poser models? Ah, I guess it doesn;t matter much if they are, the rendering job is nice!
I've never used poser so I really don't know what they look like, I have used the models though for a demonstation of a ride attraction, but hell, those sucked big time, all segmented and werid.
...so I supposed its gotten a lot better if those are the same.

[rolhionjs]

What's the.... !!

Dareoner : merci, ça me touche ! :)

alex_m1s1n_user : thanks !

jtk77 : thanks for the link :) Yea, this guy definitly rules ! Great artist !

cutepixie : happy you like it :)

Seo2 : thanks alot !

hanzo : wiro said it ? I'm a bit confused about wiro's words...
Wiro : you're saying that when your read about the messages in it, you get interested in this piece ? But what if i said nothing ? you will even not look at it, and even don't want to watch any meaning in it ? That's really sad i think, coz i have alot of respect for you, and i think in each image there's a signification. Everybody will make his own idea of it, but that's true, this one is not just a mesh... I'm really sad about this spirit state, because i try to show my own mind in each of the images i create.

meats : hey ! thanks alot ! I think you really get into the same state of mind i am ! great ! I love your art ! :thumbsup:

alex_m1s1n_user : ... nothing to say about that...

Max4d : that's ok ;) thanks ! :)

[mage111]

yo strike, once again your work drops my jaw to the ground.

its eery, its really moody, its wikkid good!

welldone

[Wiro]

Originally posted by .::STRIKE::.

Wiro : you're saying that when your read about the messages in it, you get interested in this piece ? But what if i said nothing ? you will even not look at it, and even don't want to watch any meaning in it ? That's really sad i think, coz i have alot of respect for you, and i think in each image there's a signification. Everybody will make his own idea of it, but that's true, this one is not just a mesh... I'm really sad about this spirit state, because i try to show my own mind in each of the images i create.


I'm sorry it came over that way.
Your picture certainly did catch my interest from the start because I really like the composition of it.
But when I see a 3D piece then no...I don't usually expect a meaning. All the mechs, chicks and warmachines (of which I'm also very very guilty of making) don't really lend themselves to much interpretation.

That's why I was happy to read that you had given the piece more thought beyond the technical and aestethical only.

Wiro

[rolhionjs]

That's ok Wiro. :beer:

[hiko_]

Superbe composition ... :applause:
Bon t'arrete de progresser !

Mais comme disais Dare ... ta toujours des idees et tu es tres rapide et super doue ... mais je pense quil te faudrait prendre plus de temps pour travailler tes scenes (des fois c est le modeling qui n est pas au niveau du reste des fois c est le texturing, c est pas mechant hein ! ).

Bon courage et encore bravo ;)

[PauGfx]

Think the image could have a "DARKER" theme.
i like it, very much my stile.
*****
/Pau

[Carlocki]

is possible to see some wireframe,texture and lights positions?
thanks.

[addicted2_3D]

Sorry that this post is going to be a little rushed, since this is the only time this week I'll probally have time to post any type of response. So my two cents will be short and sweet.

Basically the points I have are basic reactions and questions as to the merrit of certain conventions. Like there was a lot of barking about plagaiaziring. Though this one does not seem a case of itl I have noticed multiple times on this forum that occuring without any one giving two shakes bout it(and many of them being CG talk gallery)? One would hope dispite the broad age range that everyone could act like adults and be forth coming about their influences and 2d inspirations espeically if their bascially doing 3D representation of them. Not only r such practices are immoral and unethical it is also illegal if people get money for them. Which I imagine and hope will be a factor kept in mind with the upcoming CGTalk publication coming up.

Since I am plyaing devils advocate here I do have an additional question. Lets say if this peice was for sake of arguement is just basically poser figures, would it then have been selected for the splash page based solely on its rendering merrits and artistic content? I'm just curious what the criteria is...since it is odvious technical and artistic qualities r the qualifiers? What if the technical is from poser and the art is from different artists not credited?

As for this piece I really found it's rendering stylistically pleasing and modeling well done (if indeeded modeled. No disrespect intended,but I did not see any contradiction by the artist of the poser alligations.) I certainly appreciate the conceptual content and hesitated to respond until I read ur intent (just in case this was a class project and u were just looking for an easy way to explain it's conceptual meaning. I know I'm silly for thinking this way, but is an issue schools r having to deal with.) As for the struggle between working thur a medium to get the message and vision across. Amen to that brother I am definitley in the same camp of being limited by my technical know how to get across my ideas. As for you message well I come from the school of thought that art is about communication and if the meaning is too abstract, or need an intellectualist and art critque and artist's BS then it doesn't service its purpose. I get hostile by critques of people who don't call the likes of Norman Rockwell an artist, but and illustrator (thus is why u'll be hard pressed to find any of his exhibits in a museum for art). An if this train of thought was taken to it logical conclusion then neither would Michelleagleo (sorry for the spelling I'm in a rush) I get a sense that u want ur art to communicate and, that we're both the same side of the fence concerning that. I do think that all of the figures being textured the same achieves the "we're all the same message", but I don't get the struggle, which is partly cause of the poses or perhaps concept? If "This vision is to show we're all looking for something, or someone, but in a way, we're all blind and speechless in front of life, in front of reality troubles we could cross... Some can get through, other can't..." Then perhaps figures aren't needed at all?.... perhaps a composition framing perhaps 3 figures instead of a group rep. people on top bottom and undecided and having the composition showing that these people don't have tongues or indeed eyes. Perhaps a representation of social level or life would help communciate that aspect since a bunch of people crowded together doesn't provide context, unless they interact with each other or there environment. A lot of traditional art examples of that found , Barocco and Renaisance. I would also stay away from the second part of ur meaning having to do with Freud, etc. since it kind of blurs ur original context. If you can acheive ur primary message and these secondary Freud , women ones great, but not at the cost of ur primary message. So I would focus on ur 1st part of ur meaning (or which ever is more important 2 u) being about a society since that is strong, the Frued stuff seems a bit too intellectualized. My point being decide on the message ur want to communciate, once that is done successfully then u can add it on, but just remember the KISS principal. A message/ quote / piece of art is remembered if is direct, incituful and people can relate to it. (ex. How many page long quotes do u remember?) If you can achieve that then the art will be amazing! But like mentioned before it is always a struggle with the medium and the meaning and I wish u the best of luck on both. I hope that this more art context approach input is helpful and constructive to you and I am sorry for this being such a dam long post. Cheers

[artistx]

Strike, I commend you on explaining the thought process and purpose behind your piece. I believe so many people have responded with involved comments to your work because your explanation/philosophy was engaging. The historians say that one of the roles of an artist is to be a sort of reflector and prophet of mankind's world. You are reflecting the current state of the world by visually showing the various states we are in as a community.

I found your statement on women interesting. It's not just you Striker. I'm also seeing a slow fall in patriarchy here in the U.S. . The gender roles are changing and although there is the "glass cieling", women are rising in power. So HOW are they rising in power?.....One of these days I'd like to address that subject matter as well. :)

I have some suggestions, but they hold little relevance if I don't understand your idea properly. Please correct me if I have misunderstood you:

I like the general composition, but again there should be some other cue from the bodies or the environment that there are different states among the same/similar people. It appears that you have done this with lighting, but I would suggest using textures and facial expressions in addition to this. Remember that we as viewers are in tune with your thoughts (more so than you may think), but you have to spell it out a little bit more. I know. It is a thin line between "dumbing down" your work and making it accesible for all people, but I don't think you've made it accesible enough yet. The visual message is still too vague. Perhaps I'm just a dumb viewer....

Basically, I got the struggle idea you were trying to get across without you having to explain it. All in all. It is excellent work. I hope you continue to put this level of thought into your future work. :)

[entertainment]

the two ladies on the bottom left to right have exactly the same pose as do the two guys just above left to right as do the three top guys...

the wrists on the ladies on the bottom are wonky and seamed

nice texture, color, light

but

these are totally poser models with poser genetalia and some tweaked verts

i hate to be a downer, but man -

am i nuts?

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