Help with new computer setup

[cookepuss]

For the price you're looking to pay, the hard drive space seems a little small. 500GB doesn't go quite as far as it used to. ;) Especially with complex multi-frame renders or video, you can chew up that memory quickly. I actually think that you can probably get a faster CPU for the price.

For a monitor, you really should consider something bigger. They're not that expensive nowadays. 19" on a widescreen is a bit small. 19" on a 16:10 is (obviously) different than on a 4:3. For under $300-USD you can get a 22" with a 1680x1050 res. Spend about $100 more and you can get one with 1900x1200 HD quality res.

As far as the OS goes, XP is always a solid bet. 64-bit still has a couple of issues with regards to app & plugin support, but you can't avoid it if you want that 8GB of RAM. The only reason why I've opted for Vista is that I probably won't have much choice down the line anyway. Better to accept my fate now. :)

I just ordered a new workstation myself, last night actually. Doing a bit of comparison shopping, I found that Dell does offer up some solid quality parts, but the price can be a bit higher than necessary. Same with Gateway. Especially Gateway. (Way overpriced, imho.) Here's what I'm getting for $2,700-USD.




OS: Vista Ultimate with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Quad processor Q9550 (2.83GHz)
RAM: 8GB DDR2-800MHz dual channel SDRAM (4x2048)
VID: 512MB NVIDIA GeForce 8800GT, 2 DVI, TV-Out
NET: 802.11 a/b/g/n Wireless LAN card
HDD: 1TB 7200rpm SATA 3Gb/s dual hard drives (2x500GB)
DVD: Blu-ray writer / HD DVD player & Lightscribe SuperMulti DVD burner
DVD2: 16x max. DVD-ROM
PORTS: 15-in-1 memory card reader, 7 USB (3 front, 4 back), 2 Firewire (1 front, 1 back, video (front-side)
TV: Dual ATSC-NTSC TV tuner, PVR, 1 FM tuner, remote
SOUND:Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer
SPEAKERS: Logitech X-530 speakers (5.1)
I've got a good track record with HP products so this made sense for me. I absolutely adore my 17" HP laptop and have every confidence that my new workstation will make me just as happy. For my money at least, HP seems to consistently deliver a high feature to dollar ratio. Lots of bang for the buck.

Between the two PCs you've selected, they're both solid. They both need some customization. The T3400 has more HDD space, which is nice. AFAIK, I think that the Xeon benchmarks a bit better than the Q6700. Then again, synthetic benchmarks are flawed so you never know what to think. What I do know is that the Q6700 is fairly overclockable. I know that you can get it up to 3.2GHz. I've read of people getting it up to 3.8GHz with a quality cooling solution. Not sure how overclockable that Xeon is though.

Either way, do a little more research. I think that you can probably stretch your money some more. €3,000 is about $4,600-USD. I know you can do a lot better for that money. You just have to comparison shop some more. Like I said, Dell & Gateway are a bit more expensive than they have to be, imho.


ANYWAY.... I'm sure that there are some more hardcore tech saavy people here who may disagree or can offer up some better suggestions.

[cookepuss]

As far as apps though, I know that XSI has solid 64-bit support. There's no 64-bit ZB3 yet, but a lot of people are using it just fine under both XP x64 and Vista x64. Same with Photoshop. I can't speak for either Carrara or Hexagon, but I suspect that they should work too - in 32-bit mode.

There's still some stuff that won't work in x64 OSes, like Quicktime, but there are workarounds. You just have to research it. I know that there are a couple of threads here on the subject.

[cookepuss]

DOUBLE POST (oops)

[L33tace]

Yeah good idea on the extra space, I have a 300GB external drive nearly full and had to buy another one (500GB). I've a 17" screen on my laptop and I still think its big. I'll have another look, I suppose I don't have to get what they offer with the puter.

I consider myself proficient in fixing problems etc as they occur with my puter but I'm no good at computers when it comes as to how it all works under the hood. I was trying to understand the dual core vs quad core thread here and its all just goes over my head, my brain seems to have a dislike for threads like that and just doesn't want to know. :banghead:
So, um when you say get a faster CPU do I look at the GHz? or have a dual/two intel instead of 1?

I think I'll go with the 5400, its seems the best upgradeable machine, when and if I upgrade to Vista it will probably run nicely with the 8GB.

Nice extras on your setup and the price is very good. Thanks for replying. :)

Anyone else got advice?

these are the options i have

Intel Xeon E5405 (2.00GHZ, 1333Mhz, 2x6MB,Quad Core) [Included in Price]
Intel Xeon E5410 (2.33GHZ, 1333Mhz, 2x6MB,Quad Core) [add € 25.00]
Intel Xeon E5420 (2.50GHZ, 1333Mhz, 2x6MB,Quad Core) [add € 86.00]
Intel Xeon E5430 ( 2.66GHZ, 1333Mhz, 2x6MB,Quad Core) [add € 237.00]
Intel Xeon E5440 (2.83GHZ, 1333Mhz, 2x6MB,Quad Core) [add € 513.00]
One Intel® Xeon® X5460 (3.16GHz, 1333FSB, 2x6MB, Quad Core) [add € 1,060.00]
Dual Intel Xeon E5405 (2.00GHZ, 1333Mhz, 2x6MB,Quad Core) [add € 335.00]
Dual Intel Xeon E5410 (2.33GHZ, 1333Mhz, 2x6MB,Quad Core) [add € 385.00]
Dual Intel Xeon E5420 (2.50GHZ, 1333Mhz, 2x6MB,Quad Core) [add € 507.00]
Two Intel® Xeon® E5430 ( 2.66GHZ, 1333Mhz, 2x6MB,Quad Core) [add € 809.00]
Dual Intel Xeon E5440 (2.83GHZ, 1333Mhz, 2x6MB,Quad Core) [add € 1,361.00]
Two Intel® Xeon® X5460 (3.16GHz, 1333FSB, 2x6MB, Quad Core) [add € 2,455.00]
One Intel® Xeon® X5450 (3.00GHz,1333FSB, 2x6MB Cache, Quad Core) [add € 700.00]
Two Intel® Xeon® X5450 (3.00GHz, 1333FSB, 2x6MB Cache, Quad Core) [add € 1,735.00]
One Intel® Xeon® X5260 (3.33GHz, 1333FSB, 6MB Cache, Dual Core) [add € 695.00]
Two Intel® Xeon® X5260 (3.33GHz, 1333FSB, 6MB Cache, Dual Core) [add € 1,725.00]

2GB DDR2 667 MHz Quad Channel FBD Memory (4x512MB) [subtract € 87.00]
4GB DDR2 667 MHz Quad Channel FBD Memory (8x512MB) [add € 105.00]
4GB DDR2 667 Quad Channel FBD Memory (4x1GB) [Included in Price]
8GB DDR2 667 Quad Channel FBD Memory (8x1GB) [add € 275.00]
16GB DDR2 667 Quad Channel FBD Memory (4x4GB) [add € 1,045.00]
32GB DDR2 667 Quad Channel FBD Memory (8x4GB) [add € 2,315.00]

DUAL 768MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro FX 4600, Dual Monitor DVI or VGA Graphics Card (HEGA15) [add € 1,770.00]
256MB nVidia NVS 290, Dual Monitor DVI or VGA Graphics Card (ULGA8) [subtract € 840.00]
DUAL 256MB nVidia NVS 290 (ULGA8) [subtract € 750.00]
DUAL 256MB nVidia Quadro FX 570 (ELGA11) [subtract € 570.00]
1.5GB PCIe x16 (DVI/VGA) nVidia Quadro FX 5600, Dual DVI or Dual VGA or DVI + VGA [add € 1,370.00]
256MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro NVS 290, Dual Monitor DVI or VGA Graphics Card (ULGA8) [subtract € 750.00]
DUAL 256MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro FX 570, Dual Monitor DVI or VGA Graphics Card (ELGA11) [subtract € 570.00]
512MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro FX 1700 (MRGA14L), Dual Monitor DVI or VGA Graphics Card [Included in Price]
512MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro FX 3700 ((MRGA15), Dual Monitor DVI or VGA Graphics Card [subtract € 130.00]

[cookepuss]

In terms of how the PCs compare in terms of speed, you may want to check this out.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/index.php

Passmark isn't the last word in benchmarks. However, these scores should give you an idea how the processors stack up against one another - relatively speaking.

As far as what to look for in terms of "faster" you have to look at a couple of things.

- How big is your L2 cache?
- What types of RAM (DDR2, DDR, etc) does it support?
- The clock speed
- The manufacturing process. Smaller = better (less heat, lower power consumption, etc.) 45nm is the current process in Intel's latest. I think that AMD is now starting to switch over from 65nm.
- Number of cores

Many Xeons are nearly identical to their Core2 counterparts; The main difference being the inclusion of some server class instructions and exclusion of some consumer-side ones. AFAIK, depending on the CPU, some Xeons don't even support DDR3 RAM. You might as well be able to save money by going for the Core 2 Quads or Core 2 Extreme CPUs.

Again, it depends on your particular needs. With that particular amount of power, you can pump out renders a whole lot quicker. That's your real benefit.

The real difference between dual core and quad core is in the number of simultaneous processes that can be handled at once. This is really important when it comes to rendering. If you have a single core processor and a quad core, both of the same basic "make", the quad will render your image close to 4x faster (more or less). The scene is being sliced up and divided across the multiple cores - making it render faster. The cores share the workload.

In non-rendering circumstances, multiple cores also means that more apps can be run at once with less slowdown. Multiple cores is great for multitasking and video/audio encoding. The average user who basically just does MS Word won't care and probably won't see the benefit. Anybody here on this board will absolutely love the extra power.

As far as which CPU scheme to go for.... If money isn't a hassle, the dual quad core CPU setup is a definite advantage - the faster clock speed the better. Ultimately, that's 8 cores under the hood. In the "old days" that would've been like having a small home/office render farm.

When it comes to the video card, I wouldn't be concerned about a SLI setup. That's great for games, but I haven't heard about it benefiting the editor speed so much (if at all). Depending on your needs, a Quadro might not even be necessary. High end consumer cards like a NVidia GeForce8 or GeForce9 might suffice. Some people have had success at soft modding these particular cards (via hacked drivers) into Quadros since they're essentially the same. I remember doing this for my old GeForce6 and it worked just fine. Windows recognized it as a Quadro and it behaved like one.


I can totally empathize with your dilema. The workstation I'm replacing is a Pentium D 3.2GHz. It's only 2.5 years old now and it's already a dinosaur, running at 1/5 the speed of newer Core2 rigs.

The decision you're going to have to make has to be colored by the intended lifespan of the PC. How many years until you intend on replacing the new PC? If you don't intend on upgrading for 3-5 years, get something insanely powerful. Overkill might seem excessive now, but 5 years down the line the machine will still be usable. If you upgrade more often than that, watch your money more carefully.

[Grohu]

Altho I'm on the other side of the fence I was facing the same issue.
I bought the 3.06GHz Core 2 Duo iMac about two weeks ago and though it will be more than enough as I have read that some people had issues with quads...
But the more I have read the more 'future' was in front of me. If I'm dropping over $2300 it better last at least a while...
So today I brought it back to the apple store and thanx to a super cool manager i didn't even have to pay the restocking fee. I added few $$ and ordered a Intel Xeon 2.8Ghz Quad Core Mac Pro. Not much more $$ payed but I am pretty sure it will last at least 3 years and after that It will simply become a part of my render farm that I will want to build in some future.
If you can spend a little more then do it. You will simply save more as you won't have to upgrade in the near future.

[L33tace]

Hey thanks cookepuss. that link was a help and your post really helps also.

I'm hoping it will do me a good while - 3yrs+, though I had thought my laptop would do the same and here I am buying another puter 2 yrs later.

i found a 22" at dell (http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=ie&l=en&s=dhs&cs=iedhs1&sku=130004)
and am going to go for 320GB x 2 harddrive.

yeah Grohu, Xeon seems the way to go. it's too early to say though, I couldn't find any reviews on it at all but had a look over at the Intel site and I'm happy with it.
the Boxx8400 is sold with Dual Xeons so I'll have a look at the dual as an option also.

i'll reconfigure and post the setup tomorrow.

:)

[L33tace]

I done a slight turn around and have gone with the T7400, I'm going to leave it now until next week and review again, so let me know if anyone sees anything wrong with the setup, please post or if you're shy send me a PM. :) Thanks.
I'm happy with the setup besides the cost!

Dell Precision T7400
Base Dual Intel Xeon E5420 (2.50GHz,1333FSB,2x6MB,Quad Core)
Microsoft Operating System English - Genuine Windows® XP Professional x64 Edition SP2 (NTFS)(+ Media) and XP 64bit Label
Memory 8GB, 667MHz, ECC Memory (8x1GB)
Video Card 512MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro FX 1700 (MRGA14L), Dual Monitor DVI or VGA Graphics Card
Hard Drive 320GB (7,200 rpm) SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive with NCQ and 16MB DataBurst Cache™
2nd Hard Drive Additional 320GB (7,200 rpm) SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive with NCQ and 16MB DataBurst Cache™
Raid Connectivity C21- All SAS drives, RAID 1, 2 drive total configuration
2 x Dell UltraSharp 2208WFP Black 22-inch Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor (TCO'99) (1680 x 1050)

[L33tace]

I placed my order with Dell with the above specs beside the Raid Connectivity which wasn't comptabile and it was changed to C2 SATA no Raid for 2 hard drive. Dell were very helpful. As it was classified as a business machine I had to order over the phone and I got a great discount which nearly paid for the monitors! I should have the desktop next week besides the monitors which at the moment won't arrive for nearly 3 weeks afterwards, though I did point out to Dell that I wouldn't be able to comply with their clause in the T&C's regarding notifying them promptly following delivery of any problems with the desktop as I wouldn't have any monitors, they said they'd put a priority delivery on them.

This might be of interest to someone else reading this, I got advise regarding Raid hard drives and XP (thanks DarkMindBurning) - I was advised to make sure I do a boot disk with a system with Raid drivers on it. If something goes wrong, you'll never be able to access those hard drives in that configuration. The standard XP installation does not include RAID 1 drivers, so you cannot do a repair off a XP install disk. There's a program called REATOGO. It let's you create a Windows PE rescue disk. It will automatically pull all drivers and install them on your rescue disk. Then you have a full DOS/Windows like operating system that you can boot off a CD.

Alright, can't wait for it arrive now :bounce:. Just realised it will be a nice birthday present to myself. :)

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