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Bilbo_Baggins
05-15-2003, 01:51 AM
Thought this was pretty cool. :)

http://users.pandora.be/vanhoef/HL2/halflife2_pce32003_2dn_qt.zip

KOBALT_KORE
05-15-2003, 02:05 AM
saw these on another forum:
http://www.worldoverclockers.com/HL2/
(Scroll down - the videos have different icons than the others, and are in the middle of the page.

The non-IGN one was already posted above. The Teaser_IGN one is a 640x480 preview of some stuff - and damn it looks good :surprised

Travelln
05-15-2003, 02:10 AM
wow that was the most amazing real time game footage i have ever seen :drool: I never expected the environments to be that interactive and detailed.

Shade01
05-15-2003, 04:14 AM
I like that this game incorporates the properties of light as seen through film. It gives it a very cinematic quality to it. One of my complaints is that graphics are getting so good that sometimes they look TOO sharp and clean, which makes it look more like a game and less like life.

goodlag
05-15-2003, 04:50 AM
:bounce: :bounce: cool link&info

Kricket
05-15-2003, 05:26 AM
my god.. my jaw's still on the floor. I just hope that level of interactivity is kept up through the entire game.. if so.. wow!

JA-forreal
05-15-2003, 07:54 AM
WhoaaaaaaaaaaaaaYeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

All other games are doooooomed 3 times if not more! Hehehe. He!


-Come September-

Ah man, it don't look like it did on TV when I run it on my computer. I waited for the "Game of the Century" and it's not that cool. Ah man......

Agent D
05-15-2003, 08:23 AM
NICE. I think we're going to be getting a sequel that completely blows away Half Life 1. :buttrock:

I can't even imagine the mods that they'll build for this... :eek:

acidboy
05-15-2003, 09:44 AM
IGN has got a full 20 minutes of HalfLife 2 game play up for download.

BUT you have to be a member to access it!
Glad I am, cause this stuff makes the trailer look damn lame :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

X-Tender
05-15-2003, 10:32 AM
Damn, i love the szene where gordon push the table in front of the door and the enemy kick the door off! ... very sweeeet!

/e: I got an IGN memer account =) ... i get now the movies and tell you then how fu***** amazing it is :drool:

Kricket
05-15-2003, 11:01 AM
Sweeet, IGN has a Free 7 day trial membership offer! Downloadin their HL2 vids now.

samartin
05-15-2003, 11:18 AM
Doom3 maybe doomed by this release, how fecking awesome is it when the girder swings wiping out them wimpy enemies... and then the cabin falling down and taking out more peeps, the on-line version is gonna be well awesome, forever checking over yer shoulder for items which can squish ya...

Can't wait to get my mits on this beast...

X-Tender
05-15-2003, 11:58 AM
Guys! .. i looked the IGN vids .. and i must say that is IS fu**** awesome .. i cant discribe it .. i must calm down ... :drool: :argh:

Kricket
05-15-2003, 12:35 PM
I just finished watching them too.. oooohh my goodness gracious.. I'm now building a shrine to Valve and will worship it every day.

So incredible.. the interactivity, models, animations, shadows and lighting (especially when outside)

Strrriiiiiiideeeeerr!!!!!!

Oh and bless Valve for waiting to announce this game less than half a year before its release date! If I had to wait over a year for it I dunno what I'd do.

urgaffel
05-15-2003, 12:47 PM
Those of you who have seen the long video... How does it look on the interactivity parts? Is it interactive all the way or is it just in specific areas? I mean, the scenes from the sewer and the square don't look very interactive so... I'm not holding my breath for 100% interactive levels. Seems more like something they'd use here and there :/

phyle
05-15-2003, 01:12 PM
Wow!!! that was so cool.

The physics look so solid, the whole world looked awesome!

CGmonkey
05-15-2003, 01:54 PM
I now have a whole new life purpose! ;)

Fluckrat
05-15-2003, 06:13 PM
Holy sweet mother of Jesus!

I must have this game at all costs........

Well, within reason of course, I'm not that sad...... yet.

On a side note, what's the deal with Duke Nukem Forever? Do they ever plan to finish that??? DN3D is one of my favorite FPS - even to this day.

raz-0
05-15-2003, 06:15 PM
wow, the NDA police are right on top of this stuff. This must be like the 12th non-working link I have visited today. That'll teach me to have a life and other such nonsense. ;)

*sigh*

erilaz
05-15-2003, 10:16 PM
Dang it! I was halfway through downloading it when it got pulled!:surprised

KOBALT_KORE
05-15-2003, 10:26 PM
I just finished watching all 9 Gamespot videos (I think they show something like a total of 40 minutes from the game). They're all mindblowing - if any of you have any friends with subscriptions to Gamespot - beg them to share their account with you - the videos are incredible.

Anyway, since some of the movies earlier can't be found, there is a lower quality version of the Teaser video here:
http://o.pcmovies.ign.com/pc/video/halflife2_teaser_051403_320.mov (320x240, and although quite impressive, it's nowhere near as insanely cool as the Gamespot ones).

You can also get a better (divx version - no horizontal squishing of the picture) here (free subscription needed though):
http://www.fileplanet.com/files/120000/123787.shtml?r=5

Oh, and did I mention - that the Gamespot videos are insanely cool? :p

MosaFacku
05-15-2003, 10:36 PM
yes my friends, its amazing. there's something like a 4 hr wait to see it at e3. its great that they've been working on it for about 5 years, and they're just now saying something about 4 months before they're going to release it. heh heh, it looks like it'll be out before doom3. eh, what can i say, september 30th is gonna be a great day. :xtreme:

Maggiek
05-15-2003, 10:41 PM
sorry for what may seem to be a shameless plug, but i just want to draw your attention to the 3D software Valve is using to create what you all admit to be a-mazing work:

http://www.softimage.com/home/press/PressReleases/030515_Valve_HL2_XSI.htm

enjoy the game!

MosaFacku
05-15-2003, 10:55 PM
are they using mental ray with softimage to generate the lightmaps?

Knut
05-15-2003, 10:55 PM
Uhmm, that looks ok.


:drool:


And if you have e-donkey there is a Half-life 2 e3 demo (14.5.03) Quicktime movie to download. It's 204 Mb, so i guess it will take a while. Mine is still looking for sources. But i'll wait for that one.

TheFrumpster
05-15-2003, 11:29 PM
Oh god, I'm going to die! Can somebody please host some of the vids? I must see!
I've already seen the Halo 2 one....O...M...G...that one is amazing, but I have to see the HL ones! Por favor?:surprised

Kricket
05-15-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by TheFrumpster
Oh god, I'm going to die! Can somebody please host some of the vids? I must see!
I've already seen the Halo 2 one....O...M...G...that one is amazing, but I have to see the HL ones! Por favor?:surprised

Sign up for an IGN Insider membership, they're having a trial.. just cancel your account within 7 days of signing up and they wont charge the credit card.

And Halo2 is NUSSING compared to HL2.. especially the last video with the Striders. :drool:

leuey
05-16-2003, 12:39 AM
Yeah - that 20 minute demo is just about the coolest thing I've ever seen. I haven't been this excited about a game since Dungeon Master on the Atari St when I was in 8th grade (anybody remember that one??)

I thought the Alyx character might suck - but man I was so wrong. it's just amazing.

later,

Greg

Bliz
05-16-2003, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by Maggiek
sorry for what may seem to be a shameless plug, but i just want to draw your attention to the 3D software Valve is using to create what you all admit to be a-mazing work:

http://www.softimage.com/home/press/PressReleases/030515_Valve_HL2_XSI.htm

enjoy the game!

I never really like these thinly-veiled insinuations that certain games look graphically excellent because of the brand of 3D software used. A|W did the same thing with GT3. I think it cheapens the skills of the artists involved.
I mean you can't seriously be asserting that HL2 wouldn't look as good as it does if MAX, MAYA or Houdini were used? [I'm going from the press release not your small post by the way.]

And you must realise that most people reading that release will know for an absolute fact that Valve didn't pay anywhere remotely near the market rate for XSi?

So come on, XSi seems to be a competent enough product without having to rely on these cheesy corporate PR tactics.

CGmonkey
05-16-2003, 01:30 AM
And I doubt that XSI was "exclusively" used in the production! :p I don't want to say anything bad about XSI because it's a great piece of software. But every software company does that aaaall the time. :] As Bliz stated.

ACFred
05-16-2003, 02:38 AM
Damn, Bliz, give me a break. It's called marketing. There's nothing wrong with a company saying that they played a major part in bringing a cool game to light.
And there's certainly nothing wrong with SoftImage pointing out the features that helped make certain tasks in the HL2 pipeline easier.
And, really, who cares if Valve paid full price or nothing at all. Are you jealous?

If you knew anything about marketing & advertising, you'd see that the XSI press release is SOP for any company. And the fact that a proud employee chose to put the press release link up shouldn't give you cause for alarm. Many do it. Heck, when I joined DreamWorks, the first thing I did was to plug the upcoming Sinbad movie (http://www.dreamworks.com/sinbad) because I'm proud of what they've accomplished and when the company does well, I do well.

That's it.

Alec

MosaFacku
05-16-2003, 03:04 AM
amen

:surprised

Neil
05-16-2003, 03:27 AM
Here! Watch the 7 booth vidz for HL2. (it might be what you posted already, i dunno, but it's all ingame stuff too).

http://aixgaming.com/

(download their download program, it's really small and no spyware, don't worry)

I am still shocked at what i just saw.... i never knew you could summon creatures to do your dirty work for you. I'm still getting more of them, but each vid amazes me more and more!!!

Vic3k
05-16-2003, 10:25 AM
Neil, you would never know how much i'm thankful to you. :love:

still haven't even dled one vid of those 7 but i know i will be shocked coz i seen the trailer and i was shocked, anything better than trailer and i will fade away :drool:

borch
05-16-2003, 01:31 PM
Im home alone with noone to tell, so I have no other alternative than to abuse this forum. I just watched the first film from aixgaming.com and it looks :scream:ABSOLUTELY F***ING AMAZING!!! Ahh got that off my chest, I promise no more caps from now on.

i thought maybe it was the same stuff as the 20min preview from ign which i saw and which is also amazing, but this even tops that. basically its a walk through of a small map designed to show off the engine, physics, shaders, displacement maps etc.

im stunned :eek: someone mentioned worshipping valve and i laughed. i laugh no more. i think this is what they call an epiphany...

to answer urgaffel, yes it actually looks like you can interact with all objects. to quote the valve guy in the video as he swings a body around in the air with the grav gun and uses it to push other stuff: "...theres no limit on the complexity of those interactions...". i believed him.

edit: if you, like me, have already seen the movies at ign.com, the only new thing is the first movie, half life 2 booth #1, the rest is the same recorded demo.

Bliz
05-16-2003, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by ACFred
Damn, Bliz, give me a break. It's called marketing. There's nothing wrong with a company saying that they played a major part in bringing a cool game to light.
And there's certainly nothing wrong with SoftImage pointing out the features that helped make certain tasks in the HL2 pipeline easier.
And, really, who cares if Valve paid full price or nothing at all. Are you jealous?

If you knew anything about marketing & advertising, you'd see that the XSI press release is SOP for any company. And the fact that a proud employee chose to put the press release link up shouldn't give you cause for alarm. Many do it. Heck, when I joined DreamWorks, the first thing I did was to plug the upcoming Sinbad movie (http://www.dreamworks.com/sinbad) because I'm proud of what they've accomplished and when the company does well, I do well.

That's it.

Alec

Erm... You are freaking me out with this doppleganger behavior, I swear I was answering a post from a Margaret not an Alec (?!)

I would still say the press release overplays the effort and skill of the artists involved. Are you saying ALL the graphics seen in the vids has been created in the last year, I doubt it very much but admittedly am not privy to Valve development notes and schedules.

And who cares if Valve paid full price or nothing??! I think quite a lot of people will care, they know that the price will leverage their descision to use the software in the pipeline, in a major way.
I'll care the next time my local XSi rep calls me up asking if I want to convert any maya, Lightwave and Max seats that are under my jurisdiction at work to XSi seats.

Am I jealous? Damm straight I'm jealous, send me $6000 worth of 3D software for nothing and I'll start telling the world how great it is. Who wouldn't? I'll even video myself buring my personal copy of Lightwave, in a lonely field, at midnight, while singing pro-softimage songs if it'd help your marketing push!! [email me privately to arrange the details]

As for releasing such releases being standard operational practise, of course I know it is which is why I balanced my original post with the point that A|W did the same thing with GT3. But just because every company operates like that doesn't mean that people like me don't get irritated with it.

Anyway, have a good day and try and send me that copy of XSi while it's still summer otherwise it's going to be harder to light the pyre. It will also be too cold for me to don XSi tribal dress.

Back to the HL2 worshiping.

Vic3k
05-16-2003, 04:33 PM
jealousy. oh no! they said they used xsi. lets burn softimage.

typical thing... abusement of minority

Bliz
05-16-2003, 05:14 PM
There must be some filter on this forum that stops people reading my asertion tha "A|W did the same thing with GT3"

So to spell it out, I was whining about that particular process of selling the product, not the product itself.

Vic3k
05-16-2003, 07:22 PM
no point whining about it. its all around us in this capitalist word.
somehow i think if it was lightwave, you wouldn't be whining about this PR trick right now. is it not true? :rolleyes:
so lets stop speculate, enjoy the awesome game that is yet to come and the awesome product that help the artist to do the amazing job


watched them several times already. thats gonna be 1 amazing experience

Maggiek
05-16-2003, 07:40 PM
i *did* say it was a "shameless plug" ;).

we don't have details (yet) on how xsi was used for HL2 (that would be telling), but i'm sure this type of information will become available when the game is released.

cheers,

KOBALT_KORE
05-16-2003, 08:09 PM
Enough about that - back to
HALF LIFE 2 non-streaming goodness (http://mostlycloudy.net/~dnl2ba/multimedia/video/Video%20game-related/)

:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

Just imagine all the cool stuff people could do for mods with this engine :buttrock:

Knut
05-16-2003, 08:26 PM
3dfestival reports:

Softimage Co announced today that the SOFTIMAGE/XSI software, was used exclusively by Valve to create all the characters, models and props for the new game Half-Life 2. This widely anticipated sequel to one of the best selling PC games of all time introduces life-like in-game characters that herald the next generation of characters for interactive entertainment. To exceed the expectations of a more sophisticated audience and deliver the new title on schedule, Valve converted its production pipeline to the award-winning SOFTIMAGE/XSI environment

So it seems like they used "X Software" in the start and then XSI exlusively for all elements of the production.

3d Festival (http://www.3dfestival.com)

PS. I am a 3dsmax user, but it would be insane not to use other software if it fits a project better. The discussion on witch tool to use is not a new 3d thing. Seems like Michelangelo was having some issues with using other tools than the chisel.

Quote from Ibiblio.org (http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/michelangelo/)
Michelangelo resisted the paintbrush, vowing with his characteristic vehemence that his sole tool was the chisel. As a well-born Florentine, a member of the minor aristocracy, he was temperamentally resistant to coercion at any time. Only the power of the pope, tyranical by position and by nature, forced him to the Sistine and the reluctant achievement of the world's greatest single fresco.

raz-0
05-16-2003, 08:54 PM
Well, I don't like the XSI press release for one main reason.

And that is valve has been touting the mod-friendlyness fo HL2. Exclusivity to XSI would basically put the tools for creation of new content at a very high price. I'd really like the intended approach to modding not blatantly suggest you will need to pirate something to participate.

Now XSI could be full of crap, and valve used other stuff and provide other developed conduits, or will be. Which is what I am hoping as valve has a track record of being more honest than any of the 3d app marketing departments. (well except maybe discreet, can you consider total silence to be a lie?)

Knut
05-16-2003, 09:06 PM
I think the mod scene will be taken care of. Valve know that it is HL Mods that have made HL going strong for five years. As a matter of fact there has been a few screenhots of the Leveleditor called Hammer i think. Hammer is supposed to ship with HL 2 at Sept. 30 (This year). If Valve used XSI for modeling all the stuff in HL they sure did not use the XSI graphics enging, so i guess you could export 3dmodels/animations from any source into The Source Engine ;) . Maybe Hammer itself has a good object importer? Who knows until the release?

By the way, this may not be all correct. Just things i have read on the web.

Knut
05-16-2003, 09:14 PM
What i am more worried about is that the level of realism and detail in the levels made by Valve makes it very hard for modders to reach that level of sofistication. Just look at the eyepopping City 17 map in the demo. It must have taken a whole team of modelers, mappers, painters, conceptartists, TD's,++ a long time to make such an enviroment. The skill and time needed to make this stuff, regardless of wich app you use, would be to much for a nonprofit team. What do you think? Valve have used 5 years to do this and i bet there where more than a few people working on it. But i really hope im wrong, because there are a lot of good stuff coming out from the modders.

Neil
05-16-2003, 10:31 PM
Depends on how it's shipped.

Back during Doom, they gave you the textures for barrels, walls, water...etc. So basically you just clicked 'cylinder' here and slapped on the barrel texture. It wasn't too complicated, if they make it easy for you.
Also i thought i read that sound fx for bullets hitting materials, and all those other goodies are built into the textures. So that would make it easy again to make your own level.

In the end it's all about playability, some of the most complicated and detailed CS levels and never played online. The simple clean ones are.

Knut
05-16-2003, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by Neil
Also i thought i read that sound fx for bullets hitting materials, and all those other goodies are built into the textures. So that would make it easy again to make your own level.


Also read that somewhere. It worked like that in HL 1 too, didn't it? I'm not saying that there is not coming any mods for HL 2 or future games. To me it looks like a daunting task to create anything with the level of sofistication seen in HL2 and other games at E3 for a non-profit project. Still i am sure there is enough dedicated and talented people out there to do such work and do it great!

The future is bright for gamers :bounce:

Bliz
05-16-2003, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by Knut
As a matter of fact there has been a few screenhots of the Leveleditor called Hammer i think. Hammer is supposed to ship with HL 2 at Sept. 30 (This year).

Valve's own HalfLife editor has been called Hammer for quite a while now. It used to be called Worldcraft. I saw the same screenshots and it all looked exactly the same as when I was last playing around with Worldcraft.
I think it'll be alright because the editor has always been able to generate more complex scenes than the game engine itself could handle. It already does the water procedurally and all the sound effect triggers are there. The decal system already exists etc. etc.

As for importing true 3D models [as opposed to solid geomtery brushes] I don't know what format Hammer [2?] will use.

CarlCampbell
05-16-2003, 11:49 PM
Yay! The games released one day after my birthday! Guess I'll have to ask for a late gift... anywho... anyone know if this new Half Life will suport OGL aswell as D3D as it did in HL 1? I hope so cuz I ain't got a D3D compatible gaming card...

Carl :beer:

Knut
05-17-2003, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by Bliz
[B]Valve's own HalfLife editor has been called Hammer for quite a while now. It used to be called Worldcraft.

Ah, thanks for the information. I remember i used Worldcraft ages ago.

CarlCampbell: The release is 5 days after my birthday, so i'm hoping for a late gift too!

KOBALT_KORE
05-17-2003, 01:15 AM
Some more vid links for people if those other ones go down:
(I think these ones contain all the videos shown at E3 in each file - all the links are the same 206 meg zip file - just different servers)

ftp://ftp.starfleet.hu/pub/cstrike/hl2/e3_hl2movies.zip

http://hw.groove.hu/e3_hl2movies.zip

http://prodigy.redphive.org/files/e3_hl2movies.zip

http://sly.counter-strike.hu/ftp/vi...3_hl2movies.zip

samartin
05-17-2003, 01:26 AM
I so can't wait for this soft. now, I have only seen the 2 min trailer but by god does it kick all other game in the @ss...

Any chance of an earlier release date, and someone said FPS games are getting a bit boring now, no way I wanna live a Steve McQueen Great escape sequence where everyone is against me with a great physics engine, where's my motorbike ???

Neil
05-17-2003, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by CarlCampbell
Yay! The games released one day after my birthday! Guess I'll have to ask for a late gift...
Carl :beer:

Haha, that's IF valve actually finishes it on time. I wouldn't count too much on it, i'm predicting *holds card to head... atleast a month or two delay. :)

I like how people are already asking specifics, like 'will this run on my blah blah system'.... guys, it's still a ways to go. I don't know how any of us scrubs are suppose to be able to answer these technical questions.

CarlCampbell
05-17-2003, 08:42 AM
Ah well... just wondering. I'll have to purchase a D3D card to play it if its only D3D compatible though :surprised. It just felt like it after seeing how games like Splinter Cell and Unreal 2 don't run under OGL and the graphics a only just sub-par to what we've been seeing in the trailers.
The blue tentacle rocks btw! It actually looks like its swinging the body around and not that its just attached to the tip of it :drool:

Carl :beer:

MosaFacku
05-17-2003, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by Neil
Haha, that's IF valve actually finishes it on time. I wouldn't count too much on it, i'm predicting *holds card to head... atleast a month or two delay. :)


you think they'd wait about 5 years to say anything to just drop the ball? if it needs the polishing, i'm all for it, but i think that they've taken enough time already to have a good estimate of when they're going to ship. i mean, 5 years is almost an eternity to develop a game in this biz.

Seven
05-17-2003, 01:19 PM
Fileplanet has the intire 25 min presentation in very good quality. its a 500 mb file, Quicktime.

Im dlin it now so I cant wait to find out whether it has the Gman going through his expressions at the start, and the crew actually playing the prision lvl at the end. Those are the parts missing from the gamespot and ign movies.

In any case apparently its v v v v good quality footage.

Ill find out in 25 mins when its done dlin :)

Sev

KOBALT_KORE
05-17-2003, 03:34 PM
For those who want to see the G-Man in (facial-expression) action, check this out:
http://217.13.1.25/E32003/hl2_gman.wmv (small filesize). Oh, and the server does work - you might have to try downloading it a few different times though, as it's usually at it's limit for the # of people downloading from them at once ;)

CarlCampbell
05-17-2003, 03:47 PM
Just heard something about Discreet's Havok designing HL 2's physics engine zat so? If yes, does anyone have any links to articles about that?
The thread's title also got me thinking too... with a good enough script, actors and a decent CGFX dept. couldn't they make a helluva movie out of Half Life? :shrug:

Carl :beer:

sparkk
05-18-2003, 03:05 AM
Originally posted by Seven
Fileplanet has the intire 25 min presentation in very good quality. its a 500 mb file, Quicktime.

That file is for paying customers only. But hey, get the same file over at http://aixgaming.com/ for free :) . Its a bittorrent so youll need BitTorrent (http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent/download.html) (duh)

heavyness
05-18-2003, 03:44 AM
Originally posted by sparkk
That file is for paying customers only. But hey, get the same file over at http://aixgaming.com/ for free :) . Its a bittorrent so youll need BitTorrent (http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent/download.html) (duh)

woo woo woo. what is this "bittorrent" program? looks like a P2P, but on a smaller scale. is this thing safe? i got excited about the video, but i don't want to install this thing if it some kind of crazy spyware.

sparkk
05-18-2003, 04:26 AM
Originally posted by kole
woo woo woo. what is this "bittorrent" program? looks like a P2P, but on a smaller scale. is this thing safe? i got excited about the video, but i don't want to install this thing if it some kind of crazy spyware.

No spyware, its a harmless open source project. Of course if you had taken 2 secs to look in the FAQ you would know that :p Lucky for you i have too much free time on my hands not to answer you.

sparkk
05-18-2003, 08:06 AM
I just finished watching that 500meg video file, so i thought if you havent seen it you might wanna know. anyway...

the good part:
its very high res (well it had better be at that size!) 640x360 to be exact.

it includes the intro and outro with the gman

the camera is aligned perfectly.

you can clearly hear what the speaker says, for ex i thought it was cool to learn that the allies in the street combat scene acted on AI instead of scripting. i didnt pick this up in movies from ign.

the bad part:
it is very dark. doing color correction on my vidcard didnt really help and quicktime didnt update consistently anyway.

it does not contain the sewer scene, so i guess its not the full presentation after all.

in certain places it doesnt run very smooth. i checked my cpu level to see if it was busy but no, i think its recorded like that.

heavyness
05-18-2003, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by sparkk
No spyware, its a harmless open source project. Of course if you had taken 2 secs to look in the FAQ you would know that :p Lucky for you i have too much free time on my hands not to answer you.

i took time and read the FAQs and searched around google.com for more info. but when new, "underground" P2P come out, they really don't say on there web pages if they have spyware and or problems. i was asking if anyone else had a problems w/ it.

just being safe...

CuTnPaste
05-21-2003, 04:27 PM
have you seen the 600 mega HL2 movie????

does someone give to us some links?

thanks
cutnpaste

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