Patch Modeling:Tapping experience.

[RichSuchy]

Maybe If I post a work in progress it will start the discussion.

BTW ignore the overall shape (esp. the back of the head) I've been focusing on technique over shape. I'll fix that soon.

Thoughts on topology/ isoparm density etc very welcome.

and if you have examples, post em if you got em'!

http://cgsculpt.com/images/headpatchs.jpg

[RichSuchy]

I made some quick head shape corrections with a latice.

but heres an image so far of the head in progress, without patchs visable.
http://cgsculpt.com/images/head.jpg

[wgreenlee1]

a..........................that looks damn good....
I have a question....
What did you do here?
Draw all the splines out then patch and then what?
Stitch all the patches together?

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by wgreenlee1
a..........................that looks damn good....
I have a question....
What did you do here?
Draw all the splines out then patch and then what?
Stitch all the patches together?

1. I created a half a cylinder and modeled the head shape first from that (with very few Isoparms to start out with) when I got to the mouth I extended the edge inward.

2. I added isoparms in places where I needed to cut out holes for the eyes and ears.

3. Placed a sphere for the eye to be built around.

4. took the cut up patchs and rebuilt the from 0-# patchs with the cv option on.

5. tried to build the ear first out of a sub-d (then translated to a NURB) I didnt like the results so...

6. I built splines (every other one about) and lofted a closed surface...

7. then edited the splines with history on (viewing the lofted surface that I moved away from the splines) and

8. added new isoparms to the surface where needed to get the ear shape

9. I duplicated surface splines and relofted the model, cut it up (detach) so that I could...

10. Attach the patches to the head, rebuild, and detach them.

11. I did a global stitch to the whole thing with resistance at 1 and I adjusted the tolerence to suit the scale.

Now I need to delete history, and focus on the models shape more, and do the attach>rebuild>detach>global stitch montra.

Rich

[wgreenlee1]

Wow,thanks for the reply.
Very cool stuff!

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by wgreenlee1
Wow,thanks for the reply.
Very cool stuff!

Thanks, do you do any Patch modeling?

[RichSuchy]

I am discovering that the added detailing i did around the eye is very problematic. I want to get wrinkles in there but the patchs are too narrow for nice smoothing there.

It would seem a better solution would be to atach and rebuild with the patchs borders in more flat areas.

Any suggestions?

[Kinematics]

wow...thats really a good human head ya got there. Sorry i can't help you regarding your question because i havent done patch modeling before, heck i am still facing challenges with polys :)
anyway goodluck!

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by Kinematics
wow...thats really a good human head ya got there. Sorry i can't help you regarding your question because i havent done patch modeling before, heck i am still facing challenges with polys :)
anyway goodluck!

Thanks Kinematics.

Ive cut into the model once again and am giving myself a bit more room. Ill add isoparms later for more detail, but I'm avoiding detail near crease lines. I suspect that this will do the trick.

[RichSuchy]

New strangness

I have just global stitched my model. It looks good in the open gl with display tesselation on and advanced tesselation on, yet when I render I have angular seems in several places in the model. I look at the model carefully and for the life of me cannot see anything that should cause this. Am i missing something simple here?


Ill post an example in a few minutes.

Rich

[RichSuchy]

Here's the render or stitch errors.

If it wasnt for these things constantly popping up i would have spent the time refining the model instead of fumbling about with attach, rebuild, detach and global stitch.

http://cgsculpt.com/images/stitcherrors.jpg

[wgreenlee1]

Originally posted by Rich Suchy
Here's the render or stitch errors.

If it wasnt for these things constantly popping up i would have spent the time refining the model instead of fumbling about with attach, rebuild, detach and global stitch.



Hey check this thread out...it might be what you are looking for... :hmm:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=579535#post579535

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by wgreenlee1
Hey check this thread out...it might be what you are looking for... :hmm:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=579535#post579535

The funny thing is I just discovered that myself looking through render issues in the manual. I was about to post an image too..

I might as well. Now I focus on making this guy smooth where he should be smooth.

Thanks for posting that. It is one of two correct answers. i found another in the book but Im using the same one you posted about here. The book also says that you can set the teselation to be based on cord lengths or some such.

http://cgsculpt.com/images/fixed.jpg

Thanks much

[wgreenlee1]

Oh yes.....he is a fine looking chap.:thumbsup:

Now can you imagine with some killer textureing and MR?
Looking really good RS.

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by wgreenlee1
Oh yes.....he is a fine looking chap.:thumbsup:

Now can you imagine with some killer textureing and MR?
Looking really good RS.

I threw him in my ready made mental ray scene and he came out all tesselated and ugly. I'll worry about that later I guess.

He still needs some work

[atzfratz]

Here is just a little picture of my last heads topology.
Still very much in progress but patch modeling is more like hobby, never used it in a job.
And for mental ray. It crushes every time i try to tesselate nurbs right. patches , trims everything. maybe someone here knows why. but everytime i try to make it round it crashes.
bye

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by atzfratz
Here is just a little picture of my last heads topology.
Still very much in progress but patch modeling is more like hobby, never used it in a job.
And for mental ray. It crushes every time i try to tesselate nurbs right. patches , trims everything. maybe someone here knows why. but everytime i try to make it round it crashes.
bye

I think I read somewhere or heard somewhere that it doesnt support trims.

Have done a lot of Patch characters models? Im interested to know if you directly or indirectly skin your patch models.

[atzfratz]

hehe
i have to say i did not skin any by now.
since i am not dealing with nurbs patches at work :(
But i would definitly go for wrap deformer skinning.
Works fine for Polys the seams should stay together, but something i always asked myself if the tangency stays or not.

You used quite a lot of patches, and above the eyebrows it looks a bit wierd. What i tried is to keep the whole mouth area in 1 piece for easy blend shapes later on. The eyes are cut in 2 pieces
just between the upper and lower eyelid. All with animation in mind. Dont know if it works out fine, well see :)

here is a link about some Iso-Layouts, but the 3rd one didnt work for me at the points where five corner meets T-connection. I guess that cant work proper.
http://coldfusion.art.msstate.edu/camenisch/thehumanhead/NURBS.html

if youre interested i can send you my file.
Would love to dicuss that further, Havent found much people intrested in nurbs patches

[RichSuchy]

I notice on your model you have at least one instance where one patch edge is stiched to two others... How is this done? aren't there an unequal amount of cvs? Does it keep tangency?

I had seen the link you showed but it wasnt really definitive when it comes to NURB methods. There was some theory there but not much in the way of how to use the tools.

As for discussing it further, it was my hope that this forum would bring in a wealth of experience . It may still! :)

I only know the bare minimum it took to build the model to its not quite complete state.

[atzfratz]

Yes, there are some connections where one edge is attached to 2 other patches. Thats no problem for stitching. When i attach the 2 separate pieces and then detach them. they are perfectly lined up. When i do a global stitch then. Everything connects smooth. As long as the number of isos are the same and they line up there is no problem. But i have to say, im not sure what happens when you deform that area. As long as global stitch is applied there should be no problem. Just be aware that all isos are tangent as well. If they dont, like in a five corne patch, it doesnt work for me. I tried to keep the head with less patches as possible. How did you start of your whole modeling? Curves, Single Nurbs Surface??

[ivo D]

i really try to stay away from patch modelling.. but yes you do have to follor topology.. it doesn matter.. what sort of technique you use..

the lines have to flow in the right directions..caus when you animate.. or put out some lines for wrickles they have to fold right..and make the accurat greaces when animating.

i never use opatches.. but what you sayd about wanted to get more wrickles.. and that that is getting hard.. is that caus of the to much polys at those places?

as far i can see that is.. thats why i love sub d
you aint held by strings than

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by atzfratz
Yes, there are some connections where one edge is attached to 2 other patches. Thats no problem for stitching. When i attach the 2 separate pieces and then detach them. they are perfectly lined up. When i do a global stitch then. Everything connects smooth. As long as the number of isos are the same and they line up there is no problem. But i have to say, im not sure what happens when you deform that area. As long as global stitch is applied there should be no problem. Just be aware that all isos are tangent as well. If they dont, like in a five corne patch, it doesnt work for me. I tried to keep the head with less patches as possible. How did you start of your whole modeling? Curves, Single Nurbs Surface??

THanks, I think I will us that. becaue there are many places that i could attach polys an make a cleaner model.

As for how I worked out this model. there is a description of that near the top of this thread. I spretty much spell out what I did.

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by ivo D
i really try to stay away from patch modelling.. but yes you do have to follor topology.. it doesn matter.. what sort of technique you use..

the lines have to flow in the right directions..caus when you animate.. or put out some lines for wrickles they have to fold right..and make the accurat greaces when animating.

i never use opatches.. but what you sayd about wanted to get more wrickles.. and that that is getting hard.. is that caus of the to much polys at those places?

as far i can see that is.. thats why i love sub d
you aint held by strings than

I worked for neerly three years at Foundation Imaging using Sub-Ds for character work, and yeah I know them them inside out, but many feature productions still require patch modeling in thier pipeline at some stage EVEN when they want to use Sub-D for the fianal product.

Its not something I have control over but if someone wants to pay me well to model in NURBS, well I guess thats what I'm going to do. Thats the driving reason I want to explore them and get a better handle ojn how they work. Due to the stitching needs there are more topological issues than the ones I have been used to.

It generally takes a skilled person twice as long to build a NURBS model than it does to build one in Sub-Ds. That being said, Many places I would like to work want to see NURBS in my reel.

[Ozren]

Well, i got my DVD's from Gnomon fiew weeks ago, and still learning Patch modeling. Actualy i have NEWER modeld anything before, so i worry if i am going in the right direction here.

Should i let it go and learn Sub's or Poly's or should i continiue with Nurbs?

Thx

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by Ozren
Well, i got my DVD's from Gnomon fiew weeks ago, and still learning Patch modeling. Actualy i have NEWER modeld anything before, so i worry if i am going in the right direction here.

Should i let it go and learn Sub's or Poly's or should i continiue with Nurbs?

Thx

What industry do you want to work in? Personally I think that if your just training now you should focus on Sub-D/Poligonal modeling. You will get there faster and even the feature industries are moving in that direction though slowely.

THe reason I didnt get hired on "Express" was because I wasnt an experienced patch modeler. They didnt want to take a chance hireing me.

[roger]

Rich -
Try this:
Select all your patches and go to Window->General Editors->Attribute Spread Sheet.
Now go to the Tessellation tab and turn on Explicit Tessation and turn off Use Chord Hight Ratio.
Do another test render to see if you still get those cracks.

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by roger
Rich -
Try this:
Select all your patches and go to Window->General Editors->Attribute Spread Sheet.
Now go to the Tessellation tab and turn on Explicit Tessation and turn off Use Chord Hight Ratio.
Do another test render to see if you still get those cracks.

I already did that though thanks for the tip to use the Spread sheet, thats much faster than the way I had done it...

Thats what cleaned up most of my lines, setting smooth on fixed the rest except for the bad geometry produced by Global stitch.

In some place the tesselation CVs of two adjacent patchs are both on the wrong side of the stitch causing a fold. The rounded corner of the three way intersection caused a point and it is very near a fold as near the five patch intersection

I tried to fix them by hand with very limited results.

Heres a render with some notes:
http://cgsculpt.com/images/forroger.jpg
http://cgsculpt.com/images/forroger2.jpg
http://cgsculpt.com/images/forroger3.jpg

[roger]

Did you do a Attach->Rebuild->Detach on all those sufaces. That should fix a lot of that.

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by roger
Did you do a Attach->Rebuild->Detach on all those sufaces. That should fix a lot of that.

I've tried it many times in the last 36 hours.

Is there maybe a reason that I should use rebuild from 0-1 rather than from 0-# of spans? Might this have something to do with it?

Ill test it regardless, It easy enough to do.

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by Rich Suchy
I've tried it many times in the last 36 hours.

Is there maybe a reason that I should use rebuild from 0-1 rather than from 0-# of spans? Might this have something to do with it?

Ill test it regardless, It easy enough to do.

rebuilding at 0-1 makes no diference from rebuilding at 0-#

[atzfratz]

0 to #spans is more accurate i think.
i never experienced problem with 0-1 indeed but i guess it is limited to 3 numbers behind the point (sorry for my english).
0.123 - you know what i mean :)
Maybe other softwares do not support 0 - # spans. Dont know but i think there is no real difference in maya.

[atzfratz]

Originally posted by Rich Suchy

http://cgsculpt.com/images/forroger2.jpg


I am not sure if that kind of layout is a good idea.
You should try to keep UV directions lining up with the other patch as long as possible. Try to split the upper patch so that the Iso that is ending in the corner is continued. You will end up wit a fiver corner thing but i think that might work better.

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by atzfratz
I am not sure if that kind of layout is a good idea.
You should try to keep UV directions lining up with the other patch as long as possible. Try to split the upper patch so that the Iso that is ending in the corner is continued. You will end up wit a fiver corner thing but i think that might work better.

I actually managed to get that part working by adjusting where the tangent knots (trial and error for a while) were. Now I have another area that acts in an unexplainable way... I'll apply myself to that today after I get some other work done today (other than this piece of my reel. I'm doing comps for my reel today.

[RichSuchy]

After looking over a tangency script, it occurs to me that to maintain tangency all I really need to do is select all the surroung tangency cvs and make them coplaner with thedge cvs and then rotate the whole lot till the surface takes on the character I want? Is that true?

[atzfratz]

I think thats it. I once made a plane, translated and rotated it till it fits the surface,made it live, snapped all the cvs on the plane and applied tangency with script. It works but you have a really flat surface at that point. So at some point attaching, detaching and then stitching looks smoother. But thats all personal opinions.
And for the patches lining up with 2 patches on 1 edge it wont work simply because there a less cvs on the single patch.

Youre progress on the head is really impressive. It feels really hard for me to work on the shape now, cause the patches loose
tangency and all that. And i have less seams than you. How do you work on that. Much Lattices??
Could you show me a bigger pic of the ear layout?

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by atzfratz
Youre progress on the head is really impressive. It feels really hard for me to work on the shape now, cause the patches loose
tangency and all that. And i have less seams than you. How do you work on that. Much Lattices??
Could you show me a bigger pic of the ear layout?

I have just bitten the bullet and killed history/ then move stuff till i like it. Then reaply attach>rebuild>detatch>rebuild (the second rebuild is because I am using 0-1 now cause someone I know mentioned that Disney does it that way. (Thanks R)

save often as a new file name in case i really need to go back...

I used a few latices to adjust the overall shape but for anything more specific latices just dont give the control I need so I go in by hand and move cvs around. You just have to brave enough to jump in.

Ill get you that ear picture soon. Im working with video right now.

[RichSuchy]

Ok heres that ear topology you wanted to see.

I ended up lofting a bunch of curves to get this one, adding isoparms as needed to the resultant surface, and extractiong curves and doing it again. start rough get tighter.

http://cgsculpt.com/images/eartopology.jpg

you can tell I just wanted to avoid complicated patching on this one.

[Kaiser_Sose]

Maybe this will help

http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/tutorials/tesselation/tesselation.html

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by Kaiser_Sose
Maybe this will help

http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/tutorials/tesselation/tesselation.html

It seems I found this too late. I learned all that already over the course of the last few days. That could have saved me some major time BUT, the problems with 3, 5, 6 etc patchs is now resolved but it takes some work. There are actual paterns Im detecting that work for the cvs, provided they are coplaner. SO I can fix things by hand closely enough to then use global stitch to clean it up.

Rich

[roger]

The ear looks GOOD Rich! :thumbsup:

[RichSuchy]

Thanks Roger!

I'm glad you like the ear, I had mixed feelings about my aproach. Its good to have an experienced Disney Feature guy say I did good.

;)

I'm fixing the major flaws in this thing and adding it to my reel today. With all the delays like getting Arthur stitchs, getting them removed, and learning NURBS the hard way, (without a good tutorial or video) I'm behind a bit. But I've got the reel well underway and will render copies out all night.

[seasterling]

Hey, I'm also an old LightWaver recently diving into b spline modeling in Maya. I've mostly been messing around with non organic stuff so far but here is what I've picked up that may or may not be useful at this point in the thread.

You may get rounding errors with 0-1, but Maya does about 16 decimal places I think. Shouldn't really matter in an organic model anyway.

To bring the cvs together at a 5 point patch, select those cvs and scale to 0. You'll never get tangency here, you just have to place these things carefully.

Global stitch can do some wierd things, especially with history on. :annoyed:

[seasterling]

Oh yeah, if anybody following the thread has some pointers about stitching or deforming nurbs surfaces I'd love to hear them.

All I really know about stitching is that it creates G0 and G1 continuity by modifying the first two rows of cvs on each patch. Not exactly sure how it handles T connections and 2 to 1 connections. Probably more math than I want to know.

And I at this point I assume that when you deform a patched surface you've got to weight the first two rows of cvs on each patch equally to maintain tangency. Doesn't sound like much fun. Makes you wonder why you hear that so many studios use them over subd surfaces. I'd love to hear more about this stuff.

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by seasterling
Oh yeah, if anybody following the thread has some pointers about stitching or deforming nurbs surfaces I'd love to hear them.

All I really know about stitching is that it creates G0 and G1 continuity by modifying the first two rows of cvs on each patch. Not exactly sure how it handles T connections and 2 to 1 connections. Probably more math than I want to know.

And I at this point I assume that when you deform a patched surface you've got to weight the first two rows of cvs on each patch equally to maintain tangency. Doesn't sound like much fun. Makes you wonder why you hear that so many studios use them over subd surfaces. I'd love to hear more about this stuff.

what Ive found is that with three patchs you should form a triangle (coplanar) and have the tangency cvs be in a direct line between the two edge cvs. then rotate and scale the lot of them until you have the surface characteristics the way you want them. you can then modify the other inside cvs to smoothly feed those tangency ones.

In a five patch area you can do a similar thing but it makes a pentaqon, and still 6 patchs corespondingly makes a hexagon patern. The key to this is that they should be coplanar and try to keep them away from detailed areas

[RichSuchy]

Id like to hear from some of those people with experience doing patch modeling for feature productions. It would be nice if they could tell me I'm making the right observations or am jumping to incorrect conclusions.

Id also like to see a workflow on these 5 patch areas that doesnt use global stitch at all but relies on edge and or corner stitching. I suspect there is an order to that that can be followed to avoid pain.

Also perhaps you need always make that extra isoparm rather than use the tangency cvs to define shape.

comments?

[ivo D]

go to the spiraloid sculpting forum..

all the big guys post ther..mostly

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by ivo D
go to the spiraloid sculpting forum..

all the big guys post ther..mostly

Spiraliod is Bay Raits isnt it? (sp?) I think that is all sub-d stuff

[RichSuchy]

Here's the final NURB Patched head model. (at least for a while, I may edit it further some day)

http://cgsculpt.com/images/heds.jpg

[wgreenlee1]

I think its really perfect....
Really amazing stuff.

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by wgreenlee1
I think its really perfect....
Really amazing stuff.

Its got a few more tweeks coming. I think I lost some of its strength when I cvorrected some things before. I want to insert that back in (and have begun to do so now)

BUT


Thank You! :scream:

[RichSuchy]

OK these tweeks are really final for a while. I promise not to touch this model for a week... Its time to render turntables instead.

And after all this I feel fairly confident about using NURBS. And that was the point.

http://cgsculpt.com/images/hed2.jpg

[The Cross]

I'm keeping a close eye on this post.

My greatest model is patched Nurbs.....It's not Organic like yours though. Mine is simple in comparrison. It's all curves with lofted surfaces planers and birails.

I'm glad to see this post cause i'm planing to patch up a super realistic model of my Girl friend.

When i was in college, I was the only Nurbs modeler. But it's something i stuck with cause i always believed in it.

For me it's the most accurate way to get exactly what i want.

I'd show my work but im restricted to post anything over 30000 bytes.

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by The Cross
I'm keeping a close eye on this post.

My greatest model is patched Nurbs.....It's not Organic like yours though. Mine is simple in comparrison. It's all curves with lofted surfaces planers and birails.

I'm glad to see this post cause i'm planing to patch up a super realistic model of my Girl friend.

When i was in college, I was the only Nurbs modeler. But it's something i stuck with cause i always believed in it.

For me it's the most accurate way to get exactly what i want.

I'd show my work but im restricted to post anything over 30000 bytes.

what is your greatest model a model of? I still prefer sub-D for the same reason you prefer NURBS, but I may have just doubled my chance to get hired again now that my last project is through.

Good luck with the girlfriend model! :)

[The Cross]

I'm currently using it as my Avatar. In case you don't know. It's not my design. It's a commercial mech. I modeled it good enough to get my ass sued if i sell it in any way.

[atzfratz]

Originally posted by Rich Suchy
Ok heres that ear topology you wanted to see.

I ended up lofting a bunch of curves to get this one, adding isoparms as needed to the resultant surface, and extractiong curves and doing it again. start rough get tighter.

http://cgsculpt.com/images/eartopology.jpg

you can tell I just wanted to avoid complicated patching on this one.

Hmm, i think the ear is not really correct. you missed out what i had my problems with. Looks fine and i am definitly not a Disney guy but here is a little pic to show you what i mean. The Earhole is lower and there is another sharp edge. Argh, my english sucks for such explainations. Look at the pic and you ll get it. Not an nice ear, just some quick google search.
The Head looks cool indeed. You did that one really quick. When you finish your reel i would love to see it.

[atzfratz]

Originally posted by seasterling
Doesn't sound like much fun. Makes you wonder why you hear that so many studios use them over subd surfaces. I'd love to hear more about this stuff.

The Performance is really impressive. :)
And the file size is very small. Good for blend shapes and stuff.

[CuTnPaste]

good!!

Manage the nurbs is really hard....good job


cutnpaste

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by atzfratz
Hmm, i think the ear is not really correct. you missed out what i had my problems with. Looks fine and i am definitly not a Disney guy but here is a little pic to show you what i mean. The Earhole is lower and there is another sharp edge. Argh, my english sucks for such explainations. Look at the pic and you ll get it. Not an nice ear, just some quick google search.
The Head looks cool indeed. You did that one really quick. When you finish your reel i would love to see it.

You are right, that it is not really correct. In the learning process I lost some of the original sharpness, but I decided It would read well enough and at scale to keep it as it was.
The proportions I think are within human variences


Next time, when I have more time I'll considder making the ear out of opposing patchs

[ivo D]

i have to correct you on the ear and some other things.. i will make a statement of now..

the ear is good..not all the ears have that rim.. that your pic has..

we dont have to modell a perfect.. organic form.. or modell the way some everage one thinks..

we are all different ,and that has to be modelled to..everyone can do the super model ear..for example..

but heej.. *SEEN THAT, DONE THAT* in the future it will all be just conciderd plane and simple..

just do what you do..and if it looks good..and its anatomicly correct( most of it) than its just fine :)

so pff to much blabla.. i know.. but i just wanted to spit it out
no offence:D

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by ivo D
i have to correct you on the ear and some other things.. i will make a statement of now..

the ear is good..not all the ears have that rim.. that your pic has..

we dont have to modell a perfect.. organic form.. or modell the way some everage one thinks..

we are all different ,and that has to be modelled to..everyone can do the super model ear..for example..

but heej.. *SEEN THAT, DONE THAT* in the future it will all be just conciderd plane and simple..

just do what you do..and if it looks good..and its anatomicly correct( most of it) than its just fine :)

so pff to much blabla.. i know.. but i just wanted to spit it out
no offence:D

you are right as well.

But he did mention two things that bothered me and rather than make excuses for myself about how peoples ears vary, (there are some overall similarities in an ear from person to person) I chose to take the criticism for what was right about it.

[ivo D]

yea always is nice to just show that you can do it :-))

at the 3d max sub d thread..the las page is my hehad.. ,still have to do lots.. i have a question ther.. maybe you can help mee out..

your patch model looks great btw..

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by ivo D
yea always is nice to just show that you can do it :-))

at the 3d max sub d thread..the las page is my hehad.. ,still have to do lots.. i have a question ther.. maybe you can help mee out..

your patch model looks great btw..

I went there. Steven Stahlberg basically says the same thing I would. Also you mentioned she is an Army Girl, I wouldnt worry too much about making her mawsculine in the face, I would just focus on a good character thats definately woman. Its the makeup or apparent lack of that will boy her down a bit, maybe lips that are a bit dry from long marches in inhospitable climates, etc. Think "Aliens" as an example... I think her name was Parez or some such. She is all woman, but she looked tough. I think you can find pinups of her on the web and you wouldnt recognize her...provided you knew her name.

anyone know?

[ivo D]

hehe lol.. ow hats an old modell.. you looked at..didnt finish it.. i know its bad.. but the topology was wrong so i just quit that one..

but its a worthy one i think.. im proud of it.. but i mean the last page of the sub -d tthread.. im making my self portrait.. no one has answerd yet.. waiting 3 days..but ow well.

but i dont know who you mean :)..i didnt use reference.. none

[Atwooki]

Hi There Rich and Ivo
Just thought I'd post this Mental Ray rendered image of a great dane (NOT Scooby Doo, as some have teased me about!) that I'm currently working on in between employed projects:

http://www.custom3d.co.uk/projects_files/heads.jpg

As you'll see, this is just a close-up of the head(note my avatar also!), but the bodies, (there are a pair of danes) are now completed and I'm ready with rigging (mainly wrap-deformers and cartoon-based muscle-driven elements): looking forward to finishing this piece, that is, when I get some free time to push ahead with these guys!

Don't have much time tonight to give details about methodology (suffice to say for starters that a lot of preparatory sketches and curve-network maps were pecilled out before opening Maya).

There really does seem to be a dearth of useful Patch tutorials on the net, especially regarding proper tessellation and then texturing techniques......
I'm preparing an in depth tutorial to this end also bit by bit, so stay tuned if interested!

Atwooki
custom3d@btopenworld.com

[roger]

Atwooki - that looks really cool! :thumbsup:
It's good to see people still building patch NURBS models on their own time.

[RichSuchy]

[
Hi There Rich and Ivo
Just thought I'd post this Mental Ray rendered image of a great dane (NOT Scooby Doo, as some have teased me about!) that I'm currently working on in between employed projects:

As you'll see, this is just a close-up of the head(note my avatar also!), but the bodies, (there are a pair of danes) are now completed and I'm ready with rigging (mainly wrap-deformers and cartoon-based muscle-driven elements): looking forward to finishing this piece, that is, when I get some free time to push ahead with these guys!

Don't have much time tonight to give details about methodology (suffice to say for starters that a lot of preparatory sketches and curve-network maps were pecilled out before opening Maya).

There really does seem to be a dearth of useful Patch tutorials on the net, especially regarding proper tessellation and then texturing techniques......
I'm preparing an in depth tutorial to this end also bit by bit, so stay tuned if interested!

Atwooki
custom3d@btopenworld.com


Welcome!

I'd love to see any tutorial you come up with. That model is a thing of beauty!

do you have the whole dog? I assume you do or you wouldnt have it textured yet???

[atzfratz]

Yeah, the dog is really great. Saw a picture of it in the weta hiring thread a few weeks ago. Im also looking forward to your tutorial and please let us know how to handle mental ray tesselation right. And i didnt want to offend Rich wit the ear thing, it looks very organic which is the most important thing and the whole difference happens inside the ear. Thats no shown so often :)
Actually i havent seen a ear without that and the earhole so high but lets stop this, it looks goog so far i just wanted to make some constructive critique. I wanted to see how rich handled the topology cause there are some more problems coming up when you do this extra stuff.

[RichSuchy]

I may have to tweak that damn ear when I finish with the other stuff I'm doing. Cause now its going to bother me until I do! :)

[Kaiser_Sose]

Try this, export the afending curves / surfaces as dxf and then import them back in, from there rebuild them and see if that helps

Granted I am a total newbie to maya, I modeled a house and I can not even get a descent render

[RichSuchy]

The ear is more an issue of seeing what I can do do with current curves or whether I need to add an isoparm. But either way Thats a technique (export to DXF) I hadnt considdered and I will log it for future reference.

Do you have any insight as to what DXF file translation actually will do to the model? Im sure if there are any hidden nodes causing problems that that might clear up any of that.

[atzfratz]

i think i just exports the nurbs surface. Every Connection from Shading to history will be deleted. Helps in those moments when you dont understand what the f*** is wrong :)

[roger]

Rich,

One thing you might want to think asbout doing is ordering some Patch NURBS Modeling dvd's. I have 2 that HELPED me a lot from Gnomon. Here is a link (http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/videos.html)
I would recommend the Organic Modeling,1, and Organic Modeling, II.
A/W has 2 dvd's that might be worth checking out. Here is a link (http://store.aliaswavefront.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?V1=385101&PN=1&SP=10023&xid=41107&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=0)
for one that I have seen. It looks good.
Here is a link (http://store.aliaswavefront.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?V1=487431&PN=1&SP=10023&xid=41107&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=66924) for another one.....but I don't know how good this one is.

That's the great thing about patch NURBS modeling.......you never stop learning. :)

[Atwooki]

Thought I'd post my Great Dane full-body images (wire and MR render) :

http://www.custom3d.co.uk/projects_files/gd_bodies.jpg

Am putting in time to finish a (summarised!) tutorial...

Atwooki

[roger]

Atwooki - Where are you posting the Great Dane full-body images?? :hmm:

[Atwooki]

Hi Roger!

Should be more visible now :bounce:
(just careless linking on my behalf)

Atwooki

[wgreenlee1]

Love that dog there!!!:thumbsup:

[roger]

Atwooki - the dog looks GREAT! :applause:
Can't wait to see the tutorial.

[Atwooki]

Thanks for your appreciation Guys!
It means a lot to have some encouragement ;)

Here's a rear view:

http://www.custom3d.co.uk/projects_files/gd_rear.jpg

Busy writing; and I'm SUCH a slow typist (except in Maya!)

Atwooki

[ivo D]

heej rich.. imlooking forward to your updates in the near future.. i did subdiv modelling. poly by poly.. its myself.. busy with it for a while..still have to do detail.. i could use some comment..and ideas for the hair :P

nice dog man!! it rocks!

my wip http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62879

[roger]

Atwooki - Quick question:
Are you just using "print screen" for the image of the Dog showing the isoparms??

The wire image looks like it was made in XSI........

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by ivo D
heej rich.. imlooking forward to your updates in the near future.. i did subdiv modelling. poly by poly.. its myself.. busy with it for a while..still have to do detail.. i could use some comment..and ideas for the hair :P

nice dog man!! it rocks!

my wip http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62879

Your head models looking good, there are a few small things that should probably be looked at. Its hard to see from the images you posted but I know what I'm looking for... The nose wings, examine closeley how they feed into the face rounding the nostril, I suspect that the blend part is aimed a little high.

Your topology looks very smooth. I suspect that you wont have enough detail to handle deformations for the brow/bridge of nose areas.

But its looking clean and its looking good so far.

[RichSuchy]

Atwooki,

Nice topology all around. Im really digging the look of this dog.


Have you built any detained creature or human heads?

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by roger
Rich,

One thing you might want to think asbout doing is ordering some Patch NURBS Modeling dvd's.

That's the great thing about patch NURBS modeling.......you never stop learning. :)

I will do that as soon as I get the next paying gig. I might need every penny of savings the way its been working for me these past few years.

[Atwooki]

The wireframes of the dogs were generated with Martin Leguizamon's wonderful 'NURBS Data' plugin, which is still available from his website, as promoted on the plugins section of highend3d.com

As a footnote, I have further wireframe patch samples on his 'site,
including some heads with NURBS ears, which might be of interest to some on this thread!

Best

Atwooki

[Atwooki]

Thanks for the nice comments, Rich!

Here's a head from a project a while ago: started as patches, then converted to low polys and finished in sub-Ds....kept the original NURBS patches for the 'fur'...

http://www.custom3d.co.uk/projects_files/prof.jpg

Atwooki

custom3d@btopenworld.com

[dmeyer]

Originally posted by Atwooki
Thanks for the nice comments, Rich!

Here's a head from a project a while ago: started as patches, then converted to low polys and finished in sub-Ds....kept the original NURBS patches for the 'fur'...

http://www.custom3d.co.uk/projects_files/prof.jpg

Atwooki

custom3d@btopenworld.com

Very nice. :applause:

Agreed that Alex's "Organic Modeling" dvds are the way to go.

[nurgle]

I love this thread and the work i have seen on it. Just two days ago I have begun to learn nurbs patching in maya and am completlely overwelmed by it. I am trying to pool together a library of on line resources for this subject. Not much out there though compared to polys and subd. :bounce:

[RichSuchy]

Atwooki

Very nice work indeed!
Thanks for the info on that plug-in too.

[atzfratz]

uiiiiiiii
Atwooki, that stuff of yours rocks.

sadly i couldnt find the ear pictures
the website had hardly no pictures and on highend there where only a few pictures of simple geometry.

[plotz]

You might want to take a look at this book:

"Inspired 3D Modeling and Texture Mapping" by Tom Capizzi ( a TD at Rythm and Hues).

It's not devoted to patch modeling, but he's got a section in the book where he details how the Dino model from "Flinstones in Viva Rock Vegas" was modeled.

It's not a tutorial, even though they call it that in the book, but it's a good look at how a professional approaches the task of patch modeling (from scanned data).

[roger]

plotz - Yes "Inspired 3D Modeling and Texture Mapping" is a good book.
There really is a lot of info out there on patch modeling. Between this book and the dvd's almost anybody could learn how to do it.....it just takes practice.

[Atwooki]

Sorry;
Work called.... :mad:
Here are some ear methodologies cum wires....

http://www.custom3d.co.uk/projects_files/ears.jpg

-----> tutorial in final stages...
Wish I knew how to emulate Ambient Whisper's wonderful .avi
technique on the 'future of 'IK FK' thread here.....!
sorry, mine will have to do when I'm done!

Footnote: NOT true patch ears, as I believe the most universal, (generic) and simple way involves 5 patches for the whole ear, before stitching to the head....

Tom Capizzi/Inspired series? Excellent!

Atwooki

[seasterling]

Patch Modeling for Visual Effects is a cool dvd. If you have a full maintenance contract I think you'll be receiving one with the Maya 5 update, at which point I'll have 2. So if anybody wants one let me know, I'll save you some $ on it.

[RichSuchy]

Originally posted by The Cross
I'm currently using it as my Avatar. In case you don't know. It's not my design. It's a commercial mech. I modeled it good enough to get my ass sued if i sell it in any way.

Id like to see it if you put it up somewhere temporarily

[atzfratz]

Originally posted by Atwooki
Sorry;
Work called.... :mad:
Here are some ear methodologies cum wires....

http://www.custom3d.co.uk/projects_files/ears.jpg

-----> tutorial in final stages...
Wish I knew how to emulate Ambient Whisper's wonderful .avi
technique on the 'future of 'IK FK' thread here.....!
sorry, mine will have to do when I'm done!

Footnote: NOT true patch ears, as I believe the most universal, (generic) and simple way involves 5 patches for the whole ear, before stitching to the head....

Tom Caprizzi/Inspired series? Excellent!

Atwooki

Hmm, those ears still dont look correct to me.
but they dont look like they should, they look more stylized, anyway i ordered that book. Will post some pictures of my ear (didital one) next monday when i get back to work. thx for the pictures and i want to see your Avatar as well ,The Cross.

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