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malducin
03-27-2008, 04:11 PM
SAN FRANCISCO — The maker of the popular photo-editing software Photoshop on Thursday launched a basic version available for free online. San Jose, Calif.-based Adobe Systems Inc. says it hopes to boost its name recognition among a new generation of consumers who edit, store and share photos online.

While Photoshop is designed for trained professionals, Adobe says Photoshop Express, which it launched in a "beta" test version, is easier to learn. User comments will be taken into account for future upgrades.

Photoshop Express will be completely Web-based so consumers can use it with any type of computer, operating system and browser. And, once they register, users can get to their accounts from different computers.

Photoshop Express (https://www.photoshop.com/express/)

Adobe launches free Photoshop Web application
(http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1472)Adobe Photoshop Express Puts the Power of Photoshop Online (http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2008/03/adobe-photoshop.html)
Photoshop Express tested, enjoyed (http://blogs.computerworld.com/photoshop_express_tested_enjoyed)
Adobe releases free Web-based Photoshop beta (http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/03/27/Adobe-releases-free-Web-based-Photoshop-beta_1.html)

Artbot
03-27-2008, 05:04 PM
Way to go, Adobe! Super-limited toolset and about 9 years late, but still, quite an accomplishment for a company like yours. I'm a little stunned you didn't simply use the same GUI as Photoshop (seeing as you apparently have no GUI designers employed there). This must be a Dreamweaver template layout or something.

But hey! I'm nit-picking. Welcome to 1999, Adobe!

paul.yan
03-27-2008, 05:32 PM
wow harsh. I personally think it's impressive for what it's trying to accomplish. flash web app targeted to casual photo users. 9 years ago flickr wasn't even around and no one was storing their pictures online, so there is logic to releasing it now.

I actually really enjoy this new interface (granted I had to relearn..) but if I were new to photoshop I wouldn't have to dig to find things I need. It'd be nice if photoshop came bundled with Interface "modes" .. if youre new you could use this stripped down one, if youre a pro you have the standard toolset.

I'm a big fan of web apps and looking forward to the day when all apps are hosted remotely and accessible by all devices!

paul.yan
03-27-2008, 05:37 PM
argh. double post

CgPilot
03-27-2008, 05:52 PM
Looks like a great app.

zukezuko
03-27-2008, 06:31 PM
free? nothing adobe sells is free
For US salaries photoshop isnt that expencive
for the rest of us its a lot.
they just want to make more money from the "new generation of consumers"
great even more adobe junkys.

csven
03-27-2008, 06:37 PM
great even more adobe junkys.If this is the issue, then why do I not see more people lamenting the cracked copies of PS that litter the web?

Hey, they're running a business. They shouldn't have to apologize for that. If people don't like it, then let them steer clear of the warez. Maybe provide some feedback to GIMP; maybe even use it instead. But we all know this isn't about eViL Adobe creating "junkys"; it's about getting something for nothing.

pgp_protector
03-27-2008, 06:45 PM
free? nothing adobe sells is free
For US salaries photoshop isnt that expencive
for the rest of us its a lot.
they just want to make more money from the "new generation of consumers"
great even more adobe junkys.

And wanting to make money is bad why ???

Vojislav+Milanovic
03-27-2008, 06:47 PM
I wonder... are we looking into begining of a new era in online software? I've heard somewhere else that a 3d online sofware is going to be made.

Glacierise
03-27-2008, 06:52 PM
Well to call this thing 'Photoshop' is an overstatement, but it could grow up to be a great thing, and the direction is definitely beneficial for the ordinary people, not that much for us CG obsessive freaks here :)

SulaMoon
03-27-2008, 07:06 PM
wow so many harsh comments...
I do see what adobe is doing here, and I think its good. A lot of people will stop searching the web for a program to do a simple photo retouch fast. Its there now, and its free. I can't see adobe as evil for this.

Also, it is a very nice flash application, running very smoothly.

cresshead
03-27-2008, 07:38 PM
just had a quick play...disapointed...all this will do is de value the photoshop brand name

you can' paint...there's no brushes...yet it's called photoshop?
feels like a long slow painful visit to the dentist.

they are tryig to do a similar thing to apple's picture editing app bundled with every mac sold but tis is no where near as usable...quite how they let this out the door i'll never know!

jlelievre
03-27-2008, 08:22 PM
Seems more like a watered down version of Lightroom than Pshop.

86point5
03-27-2008, 08:54 PM
The programmer side of me sees the benefits (to Adobe) for being able to build something to run in a controlled environment (server they own, flash runtime they own). It must be a lot easier for them to test this than it is for apps running natively on systems with different configurations.

For the end user, though, I don't really see the benefit of this over something like Picasa. This obviously isn't targeted at the people who already own Photoshop. There's just not enough here to make it compelling. However, even for the casual photo retoucher, there are disadvantages. I know for my folks (here's my anecdotal story) their biggest issue was getting the pictures from the camera to the computer. A web-based app won't solve that. They'll still need to get the pictures to their system, know where those pics got saved, and then upload them to the site.

On the other hand, something like Picasa handles the connection to the camera, has most common retouching tasks built in, has catalog and sorting tools, can integrate with online printing (as Adobe's would as well), can write to the CD/DVD drive to make backups, can publish online (Adobe too). On top of that, Picasa works even when you're offline, so when you have your laptop on vacation and want to empty your camera and sort your photos - you can.

Both are free. Picasa is Windows/Linux only, but Mac users have iPhoto which has basically all the same points as I mentioned earlier for Picasa.

Grim Beefer
03-28-2008, 12:11 AM
From what I've heard this is one in a series of an online Adobe software suite, correct?

The first thing that bothers me is the way that this program is referred to as a "web-based" image editor, when if fact it is a "flash-based" piece of software. Now calling something web-based doesn't necessarily mean that it uses all open standards and whatnot, but I think they're still being a little deceptive here. Not all OSs are equally adept at handling flash, even if they can handle other web elements just fine.

Secondly, I think this smacks of branding. I would concur with an above poster that there is little reason to call this "Photoshop". I've personally encountered people that claim to have photoshop acumen, only to find out they are actually referring to being able to perform a number of rudimentary tasks in PSE that shipped with their computer. This web based "photoshop" will only exacerbate this false perception.

Third, some of the costs of hosting a "free service" will be offset by the fact that Adobe retains the right to capitalize off anything you publically upload (https://www.photoshop.com/express/terms.html) (see section 8a). While not having ownership per se, they have about all of the royalty-free rights they need. Adobe's main thrust here is probably not content control, but it is an interesting development in modern software. "Ad supported and rights removed" may become the new mantra for online content editors. I would imagine it is a corporate wet dream to work restrictions into software that give them some rights to your personal creations (if you count "proprietary formats", then they already do). We would appear to be living in the nascent phase of such a development.

Finally, a common reaction in other places I've read about this is “why aren't people just using the Gimp, if money is an issue?” I personally feel that the Gimp crowd, like much of the OS world, has no interest in creating things that are even remotely accessible to the common public (hint - this means a bit more focus on the majority, i.e. Windows). From the confusing and unintuitive array of installers (what's a GTK runtime environment? Why are there so many “download” buttons to choose from?), the presumed knowledge of esoteric computing principles (the first sentence of the “Downloads” page is “The Gimp team doesn't officially provide any Windows binaries.” Okay? Solitaire?), to the unusually floating windows with no obvious form, the Gimp makes things as hard as possible for the average Windows user (the Gimpshop helps, I know, but keeping up with what versions are compatible and fixing missing hotkeys is confusing enough for me, let alone the uninitiated).

Contrast this with Mozilla, which gives users an uncluttered page with a big colorful button to download their software, tucks the technical information into the margins where it belongs, and gives a user experience similar enough to other web-browsers that people don't feel totally alienated. The same is true, incidentally, for OpenOffice and Thunderbird. Is it merely coincidence that these programs are successful? Simplicity is a concept that big-brains often overlook in showing off their talents. If Adobe feels that there is enough of a market demand for a watered down point and click Photoshop - even simpler than PSE, this should be sending huge billboard sized messages to the Gimp team that people want to use free, less than fully featured, image editors but it must be slick and simple enough for them to not get lost. I think an OS solution would be ideal for low level users, and Adobe could still have their field day with those of us that need the high end tools for a living. I think this service could very well stand as a testament to harmlessness that Adobe percieves OS software at this point.

Kabab
03-28-2008, 12:26 AM
I wonder... are we looking into begining of a new era in online software? I've heard somewhere else that a 3d online sofware is going to be made.
Yes for sure...

The software model is moving to online / service based....

Its going to take sometime but that is where its heading.

skAt3f0r71f3
03-28-2008, 12:27 AM
Seems more like a watered down version of Lightroom than Pshop.

I agree 100% with you! I have Lightroom and Photoshop CS3 and this "photoshop" express should be called something else! It is most definitely not anything like Photoshop.

erilaz
03-28-2008, 01:37 AM
I doubt Adobe is really targeting the "enlightened" cg industry with this. It's basically a chopshop for general users (similar to the editing tools in google's Picasa), and the fact that it's freely accessable to all is enough, especially with the AIR desktop platform.

It's also a beta, so email your critique towards the developers so they can make it better.

And of course it's going to be a basic tool to help encourage users to buy their professional apps. That's just common business sense.

salmonmoose
03-28-2008, 02:13 AM
I doubt Adobe is really targeting the "enlightened" cg industry with this. It's basically a chopshop for general users (similar to the editing tools in google's Picasa), and the fact that it's freely accessable to all is enough, especially with the AIR desktop platform

Do you think they'd respod well to "use silverlight instead" ? :) - This is the sort of thing that would do well having downloadable codeblocks.

3dj
03-28-2008, 02:34 AM
Way to go, Adobe! Super-limited toolset and about 9 years late, but still, quite an accomplishment for a company like yours. I'm a little stunned you didn't simply use the same GUI as Photoshop (seeing as you apparently have no GUI designers employed there). This must be a Dreamweaver template layout or something.

But hey! I'm nit-picking. Welcome to 1999, Adobe!

LOL! I love it! Nicely said.

-Jim

LucentDreams
03-28-2008, 04:37 AM
guys where in the world have you been? The reason its free to US is becuase other companies will use the technology ontheir sites and suddenly adobe has good advertising ot any image market they can imagine.

Think of Facebook, Devient art, Flickr wordpress blogs, blogger etc. I mean Adobe released Premiere express a while ago and Photobucket, MtV, and ost imortnatly Youtube all offer remixers where you cna edit with youtube videos and upload your own videos and edit before posting. Its aimed at the web2.0 world where you kid sister or niece or whatever can camera whore but make it look flashy, or your parent share their corny trip to egypt photos, it has nothing to do with us and our industry.

Mic_Ma
03-28-2008, 06:40 AM
Finally, a common reaction in other places I've read about this is “why aren't people just using the Gimp, if money is an issue?” I personally feel that the Gimp crowd, like much of the OS world, has no interest in creating things that are even remotely accessible to the common public

I completely agree with your Gimp comments. We have Blender and Firefox and other more or less useable software. I find it astonishing that there still isn't a decent open source 2d software. Puzzling.

paintbox
03-28-2008, 09:14 AM
This is called "Photoshop" express because so many people know its name. Heck it's almost a verb by itself. Lightroom Express would have raised a lot question marks from the general public.

That is why the whole toolset is as basic as it gets. This is to reach the masses, and they just want to use the photoshop name as the ticket to success.

Srek
03-28-2008, 09:42 AM
Third, some of the costs of hosting a "free service" will be offset by the fact that Adobe retains the right to capitalize off anything you publically upload (https://www.photoshop.com/express/terms.html) (see section 8a).


8. Use of Your Content.


Adobe does not claim ownership of Your Content. However, with respect to Your Content that you submit or make available for inclusion on publicly accessible areas of the Services, you grant Adobe a worldwide, royalty-free, nonexclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, and fully sublicensable license to use, distribute, derive revenue or other remuneration from, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, publicly perform and publicly display such Content (in whole or in part) and to incorporate such Content into other Materials or works in any format or medium now known or later developed.
Personaly i find this pretty disturbing and this alone ensures that i will never ever use this service
Cheers
Björn

trthing
03-28-2008, 10:03 AM
[/list]Personaly i find this pretty disturbing and this alone ensures that i will never ever use this service
Cheers
Björn

I guess they missed: "... or later developed on this or any other piece of matter (e.g. planet, asteroid, including the dark type) by any form of life, pertaining to the known universe or whatever parallel equivalent construct might be discovered."

RawNurbs
03-28-2008, 11:59 AM
[/list]Personaly i find this pretty disturbing and this alone ensures that i will never ever use this service
Cheers
Björn

So you expect this service to function without the legal right to ever create thumbnails, add watermarks, display ads, charge fees, keep backups, print screenshots, or even publish the pictures at all?

paintbox
03-28-2008, 12:07 PM
I guess they missed: "... or later developed on this or any other piece of matter (e.g. planet, asteroid, including the dark type) by any form of life, pertaining to the known universe or whatever parallel equivalent construct might be discovered."

Can't believe they missed that loophole! :D

benytone
03-28-2008, 03:42 PM
That's something new?! much better than PS Exoress...my favorite; http://fotoflexer.com/ (http://fotoflexer.com/)
and more... (http://fotoflexer.com/)
http://www.blibs.com/editor
http://www.picnik.com (http://www.picnik.com/)
http://pixer.us/Default.aspx

Srek
03-28-2008, 03:57 PM
So you expect this service to function without the legal right to ever create thumbnails, add watermarks, display ads, charge fees, keep backups, print screenshots, or even publish the pictures at all?
What you ask for and what the license covers are two very different things.
The license would allow Adobe to sell the rights to your work to other parties of their choice for any purpose they choose to use it for.
Maybe you do expect a retouched half nude photo of your girlfriend to be indexed and displayed by Adobe in some kind of gallery, but do you expect to see it in the add of an escort service?

Cheers
Björn

BigPixolin
03-29-2008, 03:37 PM
This is not for elitist cg people. It is for your average pc user.
Read carefully next time before jumping to conclusions. It does not say just by using it they can sell your image. It says if you post it in the public areas of the site not just using the service.

Srek
03-29-2008, 03:55 PM
Read carefully next time before jumping to conclusions. It does not say just by using it they can sell your image.
Who jumped to conclusions?
It says if you post it in the public areas of the site not just using the service.
Thats what i quoted.
This is not for elitist cg people. It is for your average pc user.
The "elitist cg people" (whoever that might be in your opinion), usualy have a good understanding of contracts regarding the useage of artwork and tend to be cautious.
The average pc user on the other hand (who will very likely never read the license carefully), will get a not so nice surprise when sharing his work.
Of course you can argue that it's all in the license and whoever don't read it has to live with the consequences, but personaly i think the idea behind this license is not an ethical one and i won't support it in any way.

Cheers
Björn

PS: Have you realy read and understood the EULA of any application you use?

jtico
03-30-2008, 12:37 AM
Here (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080329-adobe-joins-list-of-companies-not-reading-own-eulas.html) is an article from Ars Technica talking about the subject posted by Srek (post #24).

salmonmoose
03-30-2008, 07:03 AM
PS: Have you realy read and understood the EULA of any application you use?

Some that are particularly worth taking note of are MySpace and Facebook.

mosconariz
04-09-2008, 02:14 AM
update:

Lots of complains made adobe change his terms:

https://www.photoshop.com/express/pxterms.html

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