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Bonedaddy
05-09-2003, 03:50 AM
Hey all,

Not sure which forum this would fall under, but I thought I'd give it a shot here. I'm using Pinnacle's Commotion 4.1 to paint out some people from 4-5 DV shots, and running into some problems. This is the first time I've done much of this before, so here's the problems, as best I can figure them:

1) The video is grainy as hell, and shifts around a lot. This must be replicated.
2) Due to all sorts of weird lens flares the director wanted, the general hue of the area around the character changes a lot.

Because of this, I have struck out the following options:
1) Rotoing out the character (the solid blacks wouldn't match the grain, and replicating the lens flares is a problem).
2) Using autopaint over a series of frames. For those of you who aren't familiar, autopaint is like batch actioning a series of strokes, so you can say, grab as your clone brush source 50 pixels to the left, and paint as you would normally. This causes extreme blotchiness after about 10 frames.
3) Painting out frames individually (one frame won't match the next very well).


So far the tact I've been using is creating a master frame I paint out and then using it as a source for cloning. This has limitations, and generally has to be redone every 30-40 frames. The grain looks stillborn, the lens flares are a bit wonky, and overall, it looks "off."

Any ideas? Any places I can go to read up on this sort of stuff? I'm a bit new to this, so any help would be appreciated!

lostfilez
05-10-2003, 08:56 PM
The way that you're going about it now is probably the best way. As for the grain... I don't know about the program you're using, but in Combustion, you can can add a grain operator, and it allows you to sample an untouched part of the video for the grain. You adjust it as needed and since it samples another part of video, the grain is already animated so that you don't have that stale look that you're talking about.

As for the lens flares..... I'm sorry that the director is an idiot and thinks that they are cool, or necessary.

Bonedaddy
05-10-2003, 09:09 PM
Thanks much! I will definitely plug along on this, see if I can't make it look a bit better. I've shown it to a couple non-film friends, and they couldn't tell about any sort of weird splotchiness until I pointed it out to them, so I figure it'll work alright in practice, even if I'd be a bit hesitant about putting it on the reel.
Is Combustion the industry standard paint package? I really don't know much about it; my school seems rather set on providing us with some rather esoteric packages (i.e. I've yet to find another Commotion user outside of my school).


Originally posted by lostfilez
The way that you're going about it now is probably the best way. As for the grain... I don't know about the program you're using, but in Combustion, you can can add a grain operator, and it allows you to sample an untouched part of the video for the grain. You adjust it as needed and since it samples another part of video, the grain is already animated so that you don't have that stale look that you're talking about.

As for the lens flares..... I'm sorry that the director is an idiot and thinks that they are cool, or necessary.

marci2001
05-10-2003, 09:50 PM
Does the camera move?

If it does not (so the background does not changes) take the caracter off by using difference

M

Bonedaddy
05-12-2003, 12:18 AM
The first one with the lens flares seems to have been knocked down by hard work, but now I'm to one that is giving me infinite amounts of pain.
Take a look at it here ('http://128.125.183.42/~jporath/pain.mov'). About 8 meg quicktime, standard DV NTSC codec.
Basically, I need to take out the second person (further from the camera) -- his shadow, everything. This is easy for the first couple frames, as I can just take a clean plate, rotate it to 2d track the camera, no problem.

Then, several problems arise:

1) The second guy's shadow passes over the wall, basically shoving all the pixels to black.
2) The camera perspective shifts a bit.

Because of that, I cannot effectively clone earlier frames, as I would have to reconstruct a huge portion of the image (the black shadow) off of frames with incorrect perspective. I tried it a bit, and it starts falling apart after about 5 frames.
I am considering photogrammetric reconstruction, as I cannot think of any other solutions. Can anyone help me?

[edit: fixed url path]

beej
05-12-2003, 08:20 AM
i cant view qt's on my linux box so im not exact on whats going on.. but is it posible for you to make a master frame like you did before & 3d track it in to the right place? if the guy's shadow is fairly harsh you should be able to luma key it out to save you some roto work. i hope this helps... good luck.. make sure you tell the director the problems you had & that flares are easier to add in post etc...especially if you want to work with him again!

Bonedaddy
05-12-2003, 04:19 PM
It's really kind of short, 50 frames, so I can probably do a 3D track. What software would you recommend for this? I have an old version of Icarus floating around here (2.08, I think), which I've never used. I could try and do a camera projection in Maya. I think I read somewhere that Boujou2 can do something along these lines. Since I'm a student, I have access to a fair deal of software at my school, but it's really a matter of which ones would be best for the job.
Thanks much for the replies!

beej
05-13-2003, 12:38 AM
start with boujou & if its not working try doing it manually with maya live (the online help is pretty straight forward for both of these). good luck.

afox
05-13-2003, 09:27 PM
well this may not help you very much, because the software hasnīt not been released yet, but i think its pretty interesting...
take a look here :
http://www.2d3.com/2d3/products/pixeldust.shtml

By the way this is my first post, so hello everyone ! Great forum !

Marc

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