Update : Particle Flow

[Taoizm]

OH GOOD LORD!!! Brandon, thank you so much for those overview vids. :bounce:

anyone know if the new system been used in any productions yet? (talking of course about the beta ver. ;))

[sireel]

I read alot about this on the discreet forums, can't wait to see the amazing things people will do with it :) Thank you for the vid overviews brandon. One question I had was about the overview # 2 and 3. What codec is required to view them?

[Equinoxx]

thx for informing us on this one brandon. and thx much for the vids as well :thumbsup:

[BrandonD]

Sorry guys, those vids were a Camtasia experiment. Two of them are encoded with Media Player 9 codec, the others are a shockwave format. I've been told one of them has audio that drops out...I'll check it out. I'll be adding more soon.

As for using PFlow in production, it's only had minimal production use so far - it's that new.

[yoni-cohen]

say how well does it talk with afterburn?

[BrandonD]

AB integration is currently in development.

[Arnage]

Nice work! One thing though: #8 seems to be the same as #4

And #9 has a nice ending :p

[Grayson]

Holy cow!! This is freaking revolutionary for Max! My head is spinning with ways to use this! :surprised

Planes dropping flocks of guided missiles that seek a target but if they run out of fuel they detonate or swerve off course and hit the ground, and that would be just one system. I mean this can do....anything.

This is going to be so amazing. Huge thanks to everyone involved in creating this amazing tool. :applause:

[BrandonD]

One of the tutorials that ships with it involves a biplane shooting guided missiles that seek some menacing teapots. I set it up so that when they hit the teapots, they explode. Of course it could be easily modified with an AgeTest set to event duration that will cause them to burn out and fall too the ground when they run out of fuel. In fact, that could be done in about 30 seconds.

I'll post some more samples soon.

[Grayson]

lol; poor teapots. But I see your point; the ability to add and edit behaviors and effects is going to be fantastic. I can't wait to see more samples.

I just learned Houdini last term so this whole idea of tests and event based effects is going to be an amazing addition to the Max arsenal.

The possibilities seam endless. I'm so excited; I can't wait to test it out. I hope my school picks this up soon.

[cdinic]

Brandon, THANKS SO MUCH.

these tutorials are amazing. Totaly above and beyond.

Your a champ

Thanks again

-Chris

[Reality3D]

:drool:

[BrandonD]

Some PFlow script integration tutorials...

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/

[LFShade]

Now that's the real good stuff! Maybe as a scripter I'm biased, but I just can't wait to find a bazillion cool ways to play with this rule-based particle system via script:drool: My favorite idea from Bobo's tuts is the "force by mass" one - now that's just damn useful!

RH

[marcusss]

seems to be based of the particle studio paradigm; how much of it is really unique and new??

[Arnage]

Just wondering, will this be included in max6 for us poor people without a subscription?

[Reality3D]

Originally posted by marcusss
seems to be based of the particle studio paradigm; how much of it is really unique and new??

Well, the main author of this piece of code is the same that created particle studio,Oleg Bayborodin and i think he/they are developing this from two years ago or so(since it appears in the credits of max4)

[Bobo]

Originally posted by Arnage
Just wondering, will this be included in max6 for us poor people without a subscription?


Don't quote me, but it seems pretty sure it will be an integral part of future max releases, whatever version number they may have.

[Bobo]

Originally posted by marcusss
seems to be based of the particle studio paradigm; how much of it is really unique and new??

I would say while the person behind both products is the same, Particle Flow has been designed and developed from scratch based on past experience, current technology state, input from industry professionals, UI designers etc.

I will let Brandon compare the two as he has more experience with PS (and TP, Houdini etc. etc.)

[Bobo]

Originally posted by LFShade
Now that's the real good stuff! Maybe as a scripter I'm biased, but I just can't wait to find a bazillion cool ways to play with this rule-based particle system via script:drool: My favorite idea from Bobo's tuts is the "force by mass" one - now that's just damn useful!

RH


This is actually the most amazing part of the system. All these examples are there because someone came and said - Guys, can this be done in PFlow? And the answer usually was - Sure, it can be scripted!...
There are some more similar examples in the MAXScript Online Help which has a large Particle Flow chapter now, complete with illustrations, sample files etc.
The examples on my page just came up too late to get into the Help, probably next time around.

(I used the opportunity to add illustrations to the "How To" chapter of the Help, too. It is now real fun to browse :cool: )

[pluMmet]

Hey Bobo- not to overtrow this thread but I meat with a Discreet rep last week and you were right about the update window. Thier trying to get it down to 12 months instead of 18. I was asked when I upgraded to R5 if I wanted to join the subscription program. When I read that it only lasted 12 months and if a new version would come out within that tweleve months you'd get it for free, I was like 'what a rip...they update every 18. Now way will get into the subscription program.' Well they should have explained it better.

Anyway the rep said that the minor upgrades will all be in the 12 month upgrades so waaahooo :( doesn't helpme now.

but the guy with the rep explained the particle flow a little better then anyone else...he said it has the ability to fragment and decay really well. Like if a car blew up and pieces flew off then those pieces decayed and themselves broke off all while being on fire....sounds pretty cool.

One more cool update like that before the main upgrade and I'll join the subscription service on R6 for sure.
:beer:

[secretasianman]

looks cool.

i want it, but im not a member. hmm

well who cares i want it anyway.

[xynaria]

This looks great and well thought out on a cursory glance. Now if they can tackle the other weaknesses properly, Max could start being the programme it's often hinted at becoming. Nice vids Brandon. :)

[treed]

Hey Brandon, would you say that Particle Flow is more powerfull than Particle Studio? :applause:


treed

[Wi_2]

yes

[yoni-cohen]

damn it my reseller got my money 3.5 weeks ago for an update and the subscription program and I need to get it next week I simply can't wait...

:annoyed:

[gaggle]

Originally posted by Arnage
Nice work! One thing though: #8 seems to be the same as #4

And #9 has a nice ending :p

:curious:
indeed. What he says. Wondering if it would be possible to get some "official" response to that?

Apart from that these are all extremly cool video-tuts Brandon, very very nice.

[secretasianman]

man i have been reading on this and looking through the help files and all i can say is:

SCHWEEET!:beer: :p

now i have something new to learn.

[sumatra]

Seems very sweet :drool: i loved TP approach, i think the same'll go for this,

Whats the time schedule/estimation for AB support? Does it involves changes from the sitnisati part aswell?

[BrandonD]

Originally posted by treed
Hey Brandon, would you say that Particle Flow is more powerfull than Particle Studio? :applause:


treed

Yes, much more powerful.

[l_sebo]

To answer Taoizm's question, yes, it's already been used in production.

Chances are, you already saw it on the big screen, considering we used it for a couple of fx shots in xmen2 (the holo-map sequence).

Hail to discreet, it really is a cool system to work in. It's extensibility is pretty cool, writing inhouse operators for it was easy and straightforward.



cheers,
Laszlo Sebo
frantic films

[LFShade]

Wow, welcome Laszlo! We all owe you a debt of gratitude for Meshtools - arguably the most useful set of scripts available for Max. Hope to see your name in here again from time to time:)

RH

[l_sebo]

Actually, i have been a regular reader of the board for some time now, just failed to post anything for some reason :)


cheers,
Laszlo

[Equinoxx]

great to see ya here Laszlo.

great to see the writer of the greatest modelingscript amongst our mids . . .

[Reality3D]

:bowdown: Laszlo
Btw, what work did you did in Solaris ?

[l_sebo]

I cant recall working on solaris.. actually, i didnt even see the movie (wanted to, but missed it).

Why, was I credited for it somewhere? Funny :)



Laszlo

[visualboo]

haha... nice :beer:

[Reality3D]

Originally posted by l_sebo
I cant recall working on solaris.. actually, i didnt even see the movie (wanted to, but missed it).

Why, was I credited for it somewhere? Funny :)



Laszlo


Oh, I think i mixed up the effects of the solaris gaseous planet with the core liquid effects. What a confussion!! :D. You did work at the core,didn't you?(please say yes to keep my mind balanced ;) )

[Bobo]

Originally posted by Reality3D
You did work at the core,didn't you?(please say yes to keep my mind balanced ;) )


He did! :applause:

He got credits for the lava fluid R&D if I rememebr correctly.
Lots of work from Frantic on that movie...

[PeteDraper]

nice vids brandon! end of vid 9... doh! (your desktop is still cleaner than mine tho) :) Hopefully should be uploading a ton of pflow stuff soon(ish) once I've cleaned the files up a tad... :D

good work fella!

nice to see you on here laszlo :)

p

[l_sebo]

Yep, it was the core :)

Frantic films did about ~100 fx shots for that, 95% in max. We did the part when the the virgil crashed into the crystal cave (or bubble or whatever) a fella died while lava was pouring from the sky. And a couple (~10) other shots, not to mention the whole previz and onscreen visuals. I was a TD working on the lava, in a pretty good team.

I just wish the movie was better :D



cheers,
Laszlo

[hugodog]

How is it compared to Thinking Particles?

[BrandonD]

I don't think it'll be as powerful as Thinking Particles in this release, but it'll still be enough for most of your most advanced needs and it's DEFINITELY faster and easier to use. The intention was not to make a TP-killer - leave that to it's own. It's a niche tool that's not for the masses. That's why you'll find it's only used by a small portion of the community. Particle Flow had to be fast and easy to use but with enough flexibility and openess to make it good for everyone as well as satisfy many of the niche requests. If you push Particle Flow to the limit and can't get what you want, then by all means move up to TP.

[MayaV]

hi Brandon

will it support particle dynamics like in maya. i have been waiting for this one since should have particle dynamics...

Regards

Vivek

[Erka2]

What is particles dynamics? cuz there are spacewarps, that almost all works with PF... u can do much things using them.

[egz]

PFlow looks amazing!

I'm about to start a broadcast project that needs tons of particles (galaxies, comets etc).

Too bad there is absolutely NO way I can use PFlow on it.

Talked to my dealer, and also got official word from discreet that I can not buy PFlow separately, nor can I get into the subscription program now (I'm even willing to backdate it to the date that I upgraded to max5). Too bad noone informed me about the contents of the subscription program when I had the chance to get in. Basically my dealer asked me if I wanted to prepay for max6, and I didn't. The only way to get it is to get a completely new seat + subscription.

Now what is the logic behind this policy? I sure hope there is a good reason... Maybe discreet just don't want my money?

I'll go back to waiting now, while the warez monkeys enjoy PFlow over the next few months.

[BrandonD]

Particle Dynamics as in having particles participate in a dynamics simulation? That's theoretically possible through the script integration, but would require some work. Now having PFlow talk to Reactor, that's on the wishlist and makes logical sense as a natural progression.

Incidentally, I think you'll find PFlow much faster and easier to setup advanced particle systems compared to Maya or Houdini. Remember, this is only the beginning.

[PeteDraper]

there was talk of having a reactor operator within thinking particles that would handle the dynamics of a particle after a certain event. Technically all this operator would do (as far as I can determine) would be to work out the sub-frame translation of the particle for the past frame, export each as a piece of animated geometry which called on reactor to calculate the rest as it had the initial motion and rotation of the particle / geometry which could therefore be integrated into a rigid body set. The same thing could be applied to a pflow test. Simple(ish) in theory, but as brandon said (a lot) more difficult in practice. Now there's a challenge for you Bobo!! ;) hehehe

pete

[Bobo]

Originally posted by PeteDraper
Technically all this operator would do (as far as I can determine) would be to work out the sub-frame translation of the particle for the past frame, export each as a piece of animated geometry which called on reactor to calculate the rest as it had the initial motion and rotation of the particle / geometry which could therefore be integrated into a rigid body set. The same thing could be applied to a pflow test. Simple(ish) in theory, but as brandon said (a lot) more difficult in practice. Now there's a challenge for you Bobo!! ;) hehehe

pete


Baking particle animation into scene objects is actually not a problem. What can be done with one object can be done with multiple (see RideTheFlow tutorial where a single object is moved with the particle stream. Press AutoKey and it will be keyframed...)

I just tried out (successfully) to move (and keyframe) an object based on PFlow particles collisions. It does not use reactor, but was a great feeling to see it happen:

*A Pflow particle system creates fast moving particles.
*In the first event, there is a Collision Operator using a UDeflector. The UDeflector references a Box in the scene.
*The Collision mode is set to Continue (which keeps the original particle speed for the next event)
*When a collision occurs, the particle goes to a second event.
*In the second event, there is a script operator accessing the Speed channel. It takes the speed vector, multiplies it by a factor to get a larger force, and moves the box along the resulting vector by adding it to its current position.
*The particle Spawns some new particles just for fun.
*Then the collision particle is killed using a Delete operator.

As a result, each particle hit on the box pushes it slightly along the particle's motion vector.
If you press AutoKey, you can keyframe the result of the spray moving the box...

There is probably just a short step to a Reactor simulation using this data...

Short preview AVI:
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/PFlow_PushBox01.avi

[PeteDraper]

righty-o clever clogs :D now try it so that it if you fire em at the box's top corners the box either rotates or flips over :)

good stuff!!

p

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