Uplift Universe - Image Entry: john keates

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206191228_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206191228_large.jpg)

Here is a first go. I am going for humour at the moment so I have let certain elements be ugly. however, I might try a more romantic take on it.

[Monsoon]

I like the fact that the 'preacher' or 'justice o peace' is neither human nor alien... Good luck to you!

[kattkieru]

John, that is just wrong. I love it.

[John Keates]

Thanks,

The "minister" thing was originally an alien but I thought it would be more interesting visually and thematically if I made it robotic.

I would like to encorporate him more into the building so he appears as part of the institution (which is now increasingly automated).

Also, once I made it a machine, that gave me the opportunity to put a keypad and screen in there to make it look like some kind of automated marriage machine.

QUESTION:

I am thinking of putting the "Access" "Visa" "Mastercard" symbols on there but I am worried that there are legal issues involved in doing so. Does anyone know about that?

[BaronImpossible]

He'll need to get a move on - the bun's nearly cooked! I like how the alien's looking, it reminds me of one of Dr Who's enemies in the early days. Nice start, keep it up :)

[John Keates]

I like how the alien's looking, it reminds me of one of Dr Who's enemies in the early days.

Thanks,

I like the early days of scifi too. These days there is a lot of emphasis on dramatizing aliens on a human level which is fair enough, but they all end up as people with lumps on their heads. The first thing I did was to banish bi-symmetry and then I worked out how he is formed (a number of segments which are specialised for different jobs).

I think the whole thing is more funny with him looking completely non-human.

[Paul4wood]

You're off to a flying start, John!


I am thinking of putting the "Access" "Visa" "Mastercard" symbols on there but I am worried that there are legal issues


Just mimic their logos with your own versions.

Good luck and enjoy the journey. :thumbsup:

[John Keates]

You're off to a flying start, John!



Just mimic their logos with your own versions.

Good luck and enjoy the journey. :thumbsup:

Yeah, that will do it. Actually, it might be more fun that way too.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206320253_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206320253_large.jpg)

Here is a render of the wedding machine as is with glossy reflections abound. Early days...

[John Keates]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I am doing the modelling in Silo (as It might be a bit much to get fluent in XSI just yet) but I am putting it together in XSI and hope to improve on my modelling and rigging in XSI.

[kattkieru]

Looking slick already. That metal is absolutely awesome -- was it an XSI built-in?

[John Keates]

Hi kattkieru,

the metal isn't preset, just glossy reflections. I find with reflections that the look is largely determined by the stuff surrounding the object.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206365896_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206365896_large.jpg)

I am playing with colours a bit. I wanted to have the wedding machine integrated into the building more so I think the tiles are going to be made out of the same material.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206375457_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206375457_large.jpg)

And here it is with a spot light and the inclusion of some rotating sound horns and cameras.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206382110_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206382110_large.jpg)

I realised that the pixel aspect was off so I corrected that and turned off the filtering so the objects are displaying more clearly for now.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206384775_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206384775_large.jpg)

On to the fun part, the alien. I am planning on making him in sections so I will make one of each body part, texture and rig it, then multiply it up. I may use procedurals driven by maps to get variation between them which would be a good opportunity to get to grips with XSIs node editor.

The problem to solve now is how to attach the parts so they look like they are all the same object.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206406554_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206406554_large.jpg)

Mr Alien is starting to take shape. I am now trying to work out how best to play with him in zbrush. I am planning on using the radial symmetry.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206450152_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206450152_large.jpg)

I am going for a "mollusc" look for the alien and am using lots of sss. Here is a little render test after just fiddling with the scale setting.

[vmulligan]

I am going for a "mollusc" look for the alien and am using lots of sss. Here is a little render test after just fiddling with the scale setting.

Interesting alien. It's nice to see something really alien-looking. (It seems like a lot of people are going the Star Trek route and making aliens that look like humans with some funny bumps on the forehead).

As a next step (and maybe you were going to do this anyway), I'd suggest giving the creature a little asymmetry. Living organisms are always a little lopsided. Nice start, though.

[John Keates]

Interesting alien. It's nice to see something really alien-looking. (It seems like a lot of people are going the Star Trek route and making aliens that look like humans with some funny bumps on the forehead).

As a next step (and maybe you were going to do this anyway), I'd suggest giving the creature a little asymmetry. Living organisms are always a little lopsided. Nice start, though.

Oh yeah, there will certainly be some a-symmetry in there. I plan to put that in with the rigging. Maybe a bit of squash and stretch if I get that far with rigging in XSI, even without that though, I should be able to get a lot more of a natural feel once he is posable.

[Cyberone]

really cool idea! i agree that its really nice to see something with a little different
style...i think the concept is funny too!

best of luck!

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206884390_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206884390_large.jpg)

I have been working away in zbrush and learning how to get displacements into XSI nicely. Works well! I may have to use bump for the finer detail once the whole scene needs rendering.

I would like the final gather to influence the sss but I didn't have any luck using the split shaders (the plugin manager didn't see them). Any tips?

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206885409_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206885409_large.jpg)

Here he is (remember this is just the body) with a bit of diffuse colouring. I am re-thinking this and I think I will use a map to alter the amount of diffuse to get diffuse markings only in certain places.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206960768_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206960768_large.jpg)

Here is one of the legs. There are eight of them and I am hoping that I don't have to re do the texture to avoid repetition.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206964061_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206964061_large.jpg)

I put a bit more fine detail on the leg.

[Abronxl]

a robotic priest conducting a wedding. I like your idea ... quite humorous.The skin shader is coming along nicely also. good luck :thumbsup:

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206967703_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206967703_large.jpg)

Here are all the parts, ready to have maps exported and be assembled in XSI.

[Cyberone]

spooky....but def a very cool alien that you are making there :)

[KOryH]

wow. fantasic details you got going.
keep it up.

[HFix]

great models, i love the alien! it looks like we are doing the same wedding idea but different perspecives on the subject should be interesting! goodLuck Cant wait to see more updates from you and me...i need to sketch!! :D

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206994675_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1206994675_large.jpg)

All but the eyes are now in the scene. Texture is missing from most parts but displacement is all there.

[vmulligan]

Neat! I like your alien a lot.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207001581_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207001581_large.jpg)

Here is the Aliens Iris. I went for a sheepy look. Just a matter of getting it looking nice in the render now...

[John Keates]

Thanks for the comments everyone. Hopefully I will have more to show tomorrow.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207004075_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207004075_large.jpg)

Another render of what I have so far. Having some technical probs with the iris. Must sleep...

[Dragneye]

Man... this is one Messed up alien! GReat work! As for logos, like they said, make your own 'future' company ones. Problem solved and creative juices renewed :-)

[Aspergent]

This is somewhere between H.P Lovecraft and a peyote cactus, brilliant!

[na]

I like that classic sci-fi feel you've managed to acheive with your creature. Good work, and good luck to you!

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207072411_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207072411_large.jpg)

I had to accept that the fine displacement that I was using just wasn't workable at higher resolutions. I hoped that converting my maps to the mental images .map format would help but it actually seemed to make things worse. In the end, I settled on parametric level 3 displacement with a bumpmap on top.

Does anyone know what is causing the ripping on the aliens body (look at the pointy bits at the bottom for example)?.

[BLX]

Not much of a mapping expert but just want to say the alien so far looks really cool. Nice freakish design and the render make it looks like it's made out of clays. I can see the problem with disp that you pointed out but it's fine overall. Also I really like the concept that you are going with. Wish you good luck!

[Pegahoul]

everything looks really cool here ^^

unusual alien design

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207079745_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207079745_large.jpg)

I fixed the tearing on the mesh by setting the discontinuity angle on the subdivision approximation to 360... why does this stuff have to be so complicated?...

[John Keates]

Thanks for the comments guys. I hope all these render tests aren't boring you.

BLX, interesting that you like the cley look. That was just a temporary thing but I may put a bit of it into the final texture.

[digitaldecoy]

I just browsed your homepage and I'm really looking forward to your entry now!

[Cyberone]

every time i see it its looking sranger and better!!!
lol...such an original little critter!!

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207143473_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207143473_large.jpg)

Here comes the bride.

I thought I would try to mirror the tenticles of the alien in her dress. I want her to have a cutsey, naive quality.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207155202_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207155202_large.jpg)

Working on the clothes etc.

[ysvry]

great work, cool concept and execution. Are those sss renders done in xsi?, I didnt get it to work on vista are you on xp?

[John Keates]

Yeah, the renders are XSI on XP. Sorry to hear about you not getting it to work with Vista. I nearly went for Vista 64 for my new machine... lucky escape by the sounds of it.

[kattkieru]

The wife is awesome man. I'm glad you went for a kind of dowdy country spaceyness on her. The chin especially is brilliant, pulled back enough to give that air of confusion (like Kristin Wiig does to herself when she's being silly on SNL).

Don't forget: this may be the future but she needs the four somethings, especially something borrowed or blue. You could have so much fun with those.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207329550_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207329550_large.jpg)

I wanted to get everthing in the scene so I can think about posing, lighting etc. I Made the alien smaller. I need some kind of fill/rim (probably blue) to light the bride.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207335922_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207335922_large.jpg)

I tried getting light onto the bride with a rim coming through the window but it just wasn't happening right. Since her expression will be a focus of the composition, I thought I should light her frontally. The alins' features are lit wherever the light is of course!

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207337770_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207337770_large.jpg)

I have made the metal in the BG darker to bring the figures out more and adjusted the light to catch the brides features. Plenty more to do with lighting but I need to crack on with rigging (or maybe just bending things about... yet to decide).

[Spin99]

Really nice to see this work progress.
Background looks really nice and models beginning to come to life.
One little thing the alien arms I think are not fitting with the image so well.

To me they're too long and look like blades so are somewhat too prominent in the composition.
Just an opinion.

Otherwise really nice work, marriage a nice idea too, even though probably my least
favourite of subjects hee hee :shrug:

[John Keates]

Hi Guys, thanks for the comments.

Hi Spin99, yeah, those tenticles look odd at the moment but the characters aren't rigged yet. Once I have worked out how to do that, I will be able to prevent accidental injury from those blade style tentacles.

[Ivy00]

This is looking great it almost puts me in mind of Dr. Who :)

[HornlessUnicorn]

This looks very interesting, can't wait to see what you'll make out of it.

Keep it up!

All the best,

Dimitrij.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207400387_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207400387_large.jpg)

My Iris Tool corrupted (I couldn't load it back in as an obj with UVS) so I bit the bullet and made it again. It strikes me that the pupil apature is in the form of a cross which is appropriate (I guess).

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207401620_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207401620_large.jpg)

Wasn't happy with that last one. Here is another.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207413683_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207413683_large.jpg)

At last, I put some eyes in the alien. Much better

[Paul4wood]

Yep. That looks alien to me. Nice work, John!

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207994528_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1207994528_large.jpg)

I learned rigging in XSI enough to rig most of the Alien... phew!

All I have to do now is to work out how to envolope the body with the bones at the base of the limbs without the geometry screwing up, and maybe work out how to solve the problem of some of the control on the tentacles working backwards.

Thank god I'm not rigging for animation!

[handlebar]

Great work on the alian, i love the materials, it's realy coming to life with the symetry broken. Good luck with the rigging.

[digitaldecoy]

The thing starts to look really, really cool!

[kattkieru]

Man are you a texturing genius! That alien is looking absolutely incredible!

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208606949_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208606949_large.jpg)

I have been reminded how much I love rigging... or at least part of it... the end part.

Anyway, down to posing now.

I am worried that her head is looking a bit small... must be the angle.

I am going to get the pose basically there then freeze the brides geometry and tweak as a standard model.

[Paul4wood]

Wow! This is really taking shape now, John.

I don't think that the girl's head is too small, (maybe just a little), but the back of her jaw seems to recede into the shadows. Perhaps you could add some bounced light to bring out the detail on the right side of her head.

[John Keates]

Hi Paul,

You are right about the shadows. It is important that her facial expression shows well (when it is made). I will probably finalise the posing first though.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208614595_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208614595_large.jpg)

I was moochinig around my scene and came across this camera angle which I think I prefer because it has more life to it.

Maybe I should tone it down a little though as the head looks distorted and there is a whole extra load of texturing that I would have to do if I am this close up to the creature.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208617312_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208617312_large.jpg)

Here is an in-between version. Hmm.... Not sure which to choose...

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208625520_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208625520_large.jpg)

Here is another one. I quite like the composition but I am worried that the brides face won't show well

[pequod]

John, this is a marvelous piece, I pop in regularly to check the progress.
I like the life in the more extreme camera angle one, but this being a kinda 'tableau' piece, I think the last one is more appropriate.
Here are a few suggestions you might try, it's all subjective.
I would make sure you frame their 'hands' better against the wedding robot's front panel, that being the main focus. Open the side edges of the picture up so they are more comfortably framed. I sorta feel the camera angle should be much lower (like the one before) and the wedding robot placed more centrally and square on.
I would also turn her head/tilt towards us a tad, keeping her eyes fixed where they are now, that way you can show off her face and expressions better.
Oh, and the red floor is very distracting.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208639065_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208639065_large.jpg)

Hi Pequod!

Glad to hear I have a gardian angel. I think many of your points are right.

I should probably keep the composition iconic with the wedding machine being central and sinister (I was originally going for a classic triangular composition). There is something of the sistine chapel to the hand motif which I think should be dominant.

Maybe I could work on an alternative angle later but for now it might be best for me to stick to my guns.

Yes, the red is a bit much but I like it as a theme (lust, danger) so I am keeping it there for now but will probably tone it down later once I have more colour in the bride and elsewhere.

I see what you mean about having her face towards us but I want her attention very much focused on the object of her affections. I think this will work better once I have got her facial expression on her (I will probably goof her up a bit).

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208640678_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208640678_large.jpg)

I think the composition is starting to settle. It is pretty much how it was at the beginning but I think it is working better now with the "hands" better framed.

I have gone for a square composition for now but I might include a bit more space above.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208640881_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208640881_large.jpg)

Ooops! here is the image that I meant to post. I just moved a tentacle. There is plenty more tentacle tweaking to do but for now I have other things to get on with...

[na]

This is really coming along nice John, I like the alien's pose it looks natural for his form. The whole thing has a slight touch of nostalgia that I find really appealing too :)

[medunecer]

Hey john! Your models and camera angle are really cool! Did you use zbrush too? I think you'll get a great final image (the alien is really cool!).

[kattkieru]

Hey John! Still looking great! :)

I think the tentacles should touch the hand more... like being on and under in a holding gesture, or wrapping around just a tiny bit.

Also, composition-wise I think you've selected your point of interest well but I'd pull back to show a bit more around the edges. It's kind of odd that the alien is partly out of frame, at least in my opinion.

Can't wait to see hair on the woman... I don't think her head's too small.

[John Keates]

Hi Guys, thanks for the comments.

medunecer, Yeah, I use Silo and Zbrush for modelling/texturing. I have now saved out the bride as obj and am tidying her up in Silo. Once that is done, I will bring her into zbrush and start fine-tuning her.

[digitaldecoy]

Your image is developing really nice! I just wanted to throw in, that I hope that the final scene will get much more ambient light. It's a wedding, it should look bright and shiny! I know, you're not at that point yet but since you are posting renderings I thought I might as well share my thoughts about it.

[John Keates]

Hi digitaldecoy,

I will probably add more lights but I would quite like a dramatic light effect. I think I will try to go for quite a bit of mid-light to display the features of the bride and then some kind of top light on the main characters, keeping the background darker (but with the odd highlight).

That is kinda the plan for now anyway.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208719479_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208719479_large.jpg)

I am now working on the brides expression. I want her to look genuinely happy.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208723992_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208723992_large.jpg)
Oh crap, ignore this... wrong image.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208724152_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208724152_large.jpg)

This is what I meant to post... larger smile this time.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208731207_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208731207_large.jpg)

I have fleshed out the creases for the bride in zbrush

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208784437_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208784437_large.jpg)

I am bringing the bride in as a high-res model from zbrush rather than bothering with displacements (no rigging to do now).

Some basic shaders on there. Lots of texturing/tweaking to do.

[ysvry]

your making great progress, a darlek is doing the wedding i see ;)

[John Keates]

Thanks ysvry, Yeah, I guess it is very darlek-like. I don't mind the associatoin but it isn't meant to be one.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208822815_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208822815_large.jpg)

I think the skin shader has a little too much sss at the mo. I will probably lighten it up too (going for a calafornia blond type complection). Probably a good idea to start working on the hair as I work on the skin.

[headtrip]

I really liked how "alien" the alien is. Great imagination and your 3D skills are really good. I'm looking forward to seeing the final render. Are you going to give it some romantic lighting? I think that would really set it off.

[John Keates]

Hi Head trip,

Thanks for the compliments.

I am fiddling with lighting at the mo and should have a render soon (although a lot of work still needs to be done). I am thinking of maybe adding some volumetrics coming through the windows and from above and compositing them in afterwards.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208825573_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1208825573_large.jpg)

I have evened out the lighting a little. I might tone this current lighting down more, keeping it as a medium-brighntess fill, then introduce a light from above. For now though, bed beckons...

[digitaldecoy]

That looks a whole lot better! I would love to see a bit more res bouncelight form the carpet on the bride's dress but these things are, on the other hand, easily overdone.

I also wanted to add, that I'm not quite sure about the noisy look on the background elements. It's a bit distracting at the moment.

[HornlessUnicorn]

Hey :)

Your piece is coming along really well. But you will add some textures, right ? Because it looks a bit too sterile - you need some "iregularities", something to give it a more natural look, if you know what I mean :)

By the way - cool portfolio on your website!!

Cheers,

Dimitrij.

[John Keates]

Hi digitaldecoy,

I toned down the red of the carpet but I might find an in-between to get more bounced light once her dress is back in the scene. I quite liked it when it was there (the red bounce).

The noisy look in the background will go when I up the quality of the blurry reflections towards the end. I will have to put some bump etc on there though to make it look natural.

Hi Dimitrij,

Thanks for the compliment on my portfolio. Hopefuly this will be a new addition.

Yeah, I will add lots of texture. Once I have all the geometry in place, I will get stuck into that. There isn't going to be much dirt but I need to add detail, particularly in the alien.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209036939_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209036939_large.jpg)

Here is a quick (5 min) paint-over to get a feeling for what the hair is going to do (I was getting disturbed by her baldness).

I wonder how long it will take me to re-create it in 3d?

I have been playing with hair in XSI but I had trouble getting the control I wanted and the render times are un-workable (unless I find out how to do light listing and use shadow maps).

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209071199_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209071199_large.jpg)

I have plumped for making the hair the old way for now. Here she is with a voluminus bouffant of protinus miscellania.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209076751_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209076751_large.jpg)

I have made a basic hair transparency/specular map and plonked it on. I have yet to feather the ends but I want to find out how to export hte UVs as a map from XSI first (does that feature even exist? I can't find it anywhere...)

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209078652_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209078652_large.jpg)

Apart from the artifacts near the edges, adding a bump map adds some realism.

There is some way to go though and I am starting to think that using XSI's hair might not be such a bad idea after all... particularly as it would back-light much better.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209079698_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209079698_large.jpg)

I toned down the bump quite a bit. I think I will persevere with this method justa little before trying the hair feature.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209081334_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209081334_large.jpg)

I added some extra,thinner hairs above the existing ones.

[akahraman]

Hey John, you've a funny concept here. And your image felt like I'm looking to a screenshot of a movie. Cool creature work. Keep going man.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209129173_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209129173_large.jpg)

I am starting to play with the hair and am liking it.

I am using shadow maps to light the hair which I will render seperately and composite in (that is the plan anyway).

One problem though: When I use a backlight, I get odd, light artifacts (which you should be able to see in the picture).

I have played with bias settings and samples etc but no joy.

Also, when I try using volumic shadows, they dissapear ( I am thinkinig that volumic shadows might solve this problem).

[John Keates]

Hi akahraman,

Thanks for the compliment. I would love to see this as a part of a movie but my rigging and animating is a little far off that for now :hmm:

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209142825_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209142825_large.jpg)

Render times with the in-built hair were just too nasty and the look I was getting with shadow maps wasn't that good as I couldn't work out how to use volumic maps without the shadows dissapearing so I went back to the older approach. I doubled up the hair with a randomize deformer and added translucency. The render time isn't too bad and I am starting to get the desired result.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209156350_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209156350_large.jpg)

Another lighting test with hair looking its best, and a dark screen for the wedding machine.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209167633_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209167633_large.jpg)

I bit the bullet and made the background much darker. I also fiddled with the lights a litte. I think I like this direction. It has a more sinister tone but at the same time, the couple look lost in their little world.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209244644_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209244644_large.jpg)

I moved away from a square composition and back towards what I had before, including more feet and space above heads.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209245389_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209245389_large.jpg)

I thought it might look better flipped round so that the bride becomes a full stop... kinda thing.

Hmmm....

[Ferx]

Hey John, really cool concept, I like a lot your idea! :) The design for the alien looks really great, very original and strange ( in the good way :D). I think the woman pose is a bit unbalanced, looks a bit that she can fall to back, perhaps you need to turn the torso to her left, to put her weight on the left leg, or change the legs, the right leg on back and the left on front, only a comment :) Again, really nice work!! Cheers mate :beer:

P.S . :) the comment on the image was maked before you flipped the image ( flip my comment about the girl weight :D )

[John Keates]

Thanks for popping in Ferx,

I see what you mean about the balence but there is a fine line between un-balenced and dynamic and I think I would prefer to lean towards dynamic (pun not intended).

I think that, it will look better once the dress is back in too.

But yes, fair point.

[sasquatch70]

Hey John, Very cool concept. The girl kind of looks like bjork. Nice stylized piece, keep up the awesome work. Brad

[John Keates]

Thanks sasquatch70,

Bjork? Hmmm... maybe. That will probably change once I have some texture on her (Unless I go for the geisha girl look).

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209503492_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209503492_large.jpg)

I have added a little textureing on the bride and the carpet. I need to do a lot of fiddling with light angles to get more of a "spot" feel.

[digitaldecoy]

Keep the image that way! The flipped image might please your biased eyes but traditionally the bride's on the left side before the altar. It just looks more convincing in my opinion.

[John Keates]

Yeah, you are probably right. It is always refreshing to see an old image the other way but there is probably an instinctive reason why the bride was on the left in my sketch.

[TCPortfolio]

Love the concept, and the early renders. I would say keep the flipped image; when I married my wife, she was on the right side (left when looking as a spectator - like your flipped image). Anyway, just my preference I guess. Can't wait to see a finished product...looks really cool. I also wish her right hand was doing something else, like maybe have it over her mouth with excitement or something. I know you probably havn't finished posing her so, I'll just shut up, haha. Great image!

[John Keates]

Hi TCPortfolio,

Glad you like. I have been meaning to get a little bit of action in her right hand so that will be in the next update.

I thought I would do a little bit of research on wedding etiquette and found these diagrams:

http://www.weddingetiquettetips.com/advice/wedding_ceremony_procession_24.htm

So it looks like the bride usually goes on the left.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209599667_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209599667_large.jpg)

I had trouble uploading stuff as the server was slow so a few things have happened since the last image.

I put a little action in the brides hand, tweaked her eyes (they still seem to be pointing the wrong way though), put some details in the wedding machine, tweaked lighting and shaders and added some volumetric lighting.

Hmmm... I think that is it.

I should do some more textures stuff but I would also like to play with lense glare and DOF.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209600014_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209600014_large.jpg)

The image didn't upload so I am trying again...

[John Keates]

Looks like it is buggered then...

[kattkieru]

The last image that got uploaded looks great, man. Really coming together.

You might want to look at the SSS refraction depth (or whatever the technical name is) -- on the alien it doesn't matter much but the bride is looking decidedly doll-like at the moment. The depth of the bounces needs to be turned down; in some spots it's almost like she's see-through.

[John Keates]

Yeah, I have been fiddling with the scale quite a lot. Now that the light is shining stronly on her hand, the sss is poking through quite a bit. The materials and lights really interact quite a bit.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209640569_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209640569_large.jpg)
Wohooo... the upload worked. Hope you like.

[John Keates]

Looking at the new volumetric, I think it is a bit too much and reduces contrast where it should be greater. The image has less punch...

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209653468_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209653468_large.jpg)

Here it is with a bit more volumetric coming down from above. I need to work out how to get some variation in the volumetric stuff.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209658553_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209658553_large.jpg)

I am concentrating on the bride some more. I have softened up the edges of the hair strips and will give her eyebrows and solve the wierd eye problem that she has (although maybe this partly expains her choice of husband).

[jeromoo]

Hi John. I am wondering what does she really see in that alien :). And how do you identify the alien as being male or female? Perhaps the wedding scene will look more complete with a tux on the alien. The words on the computer panel are a bit hard to read, how about making brighter and glowing. The wedding machine is reminiscent of Las Vegas style drop in wedding, where drunk people go to marry unintentionally :D. hey, maybe that's what happened here! :D

[silenceimpaired]

You're the second person I've seen in the contest working from the alien with human- in a romantic relationship. I like where you've taken it:

I can almost imagine 2 hours before this image she was driving along a country road and now she has been wined and dined and told about the amazing things she could see... and he pops the question, without her his life is meaningless.

[John Keates]

Hi Guys,

I have been working on the back plot as I make the image. I will probably reveal it at the end.

jeromoo, I will probaby make the words much larger, particularly if I use the DOF effect (which blurs them out a bit).

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209742016_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209742016_large.jpg)

I toned down the volumetric and added some DOF. I have also been working on the brides textures. Plenty more texture work could be done.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209757345_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209757345_large.jpg)

A few fiddles here and there. Mostly the addition of the alien leg texture. More of that kind of thing in the works.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209818941_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209818941_large.jpg)

I have added some stained glass windows. They need improving but I think they add to the richness of the scene. Hopefully they aren't too distracting.

[kattkieru]

The Kiss the Bride message made me laugh out loud. Brilliant, don't change that for the world.

Strangely though I hear the words spoken IN A DAAAAALEK VOICE.

[Paul4wood]

Hmmm. This is looking like a shotgun wedding.

Nice improvements!

[Spin99]

Hi John,

Still looking great. I prefer the darker background.
The machine wording does make it sound like a shotgun wedding.
But you know maybe those can save people from much further trouble lol

I agree with the one comment that both figures could fit whole in the composition.
Don't know how much of that would really be possible though.
Bride looks preety. Tentacle cutoff point is actually not bad imho if he's not going to fit.

Some more critting for you :buttrock:

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209841840_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209841840_large.jpg)

I have added a beaten metal effect to the marriage machine. I will almost certainly pull back from this level for the next render but I think it is achieving something.

I am finaly starting to feel that I am reaching the finish line.

[Cyberone]

i agree with what chales said before...sss.is too much..
basically i think the ligh coming in from the back to the front to sto strong...not the light...just the scatter...

i dont know what software you are using so i cant reallt help...

you have an awsome image going here....

[OZ]

The girl expression is fantasic...! Im not sure about light changes...i mean...now the light works pretty well...but maybe a more local area lights let the alien surface details comes out a bit more...BOF...for me the image is ok right as it is.:thumbsup:

[John Keates]

Hmmm... I will think about the sss backlight. I want the alien to look like some kind of mollusc... as if he doesn't have bones. There are a few things I need to sort out then I will come back to him. I might add some lighter areas to him also...

[headtrip]

It's great to see this piece get better and better each time I see it. The details are coming through and I give a big thumbs up to some great modeling. :thumbsup:

The lighting is coming on nicely, but I'm not sure if volumetric lighting is that way to go. What about some warm lights coming from candles (they dont really need to be seen) around the room and the lights from the windows add a rim light effect to the characters making them stand out against the background?

I can see you have put in huge amounts of work and I look forward to seeing it all pay off with your final image.

Keep going.

[scala]

Come on John it's almost finished , maybe you could work a litttle on the atmosphere with photoshop

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209907585_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1209907585_large.jpg)

I think I am coming to a close on this one. Maybe some veins in the eye-stalks? Then render it big and perhaps fiddle in PS.

How much touch up is allowed by the way?

Oh yeah, I added some eye lashes.

[RaDeaton]

I wonder what she sees in him...it ?
Great job on the alien's body detail.
It's funny I almost did a alien-human wedding but now I'm glad I didn't cause yours would have put mine to shame.

Good Luck!

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=235&t=621357&highlight=home+jijo

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1210076051_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1210076051_large.jpg)

OK, this is going to be pretty much the last version before final. If there is anything that really irks you then I would like to hear.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1210076778_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1210076778_large.jpg)

I thought I would try a vignette effect. I am even tempted to render an over-scan version and put it in an oval frame.

[digitaldecoy]

The vignette effect works very good on the image in my opinion. If you are not totally finished with it yet, you might consider to put a slight gradient into the background windows. They look a bit flat I think. Only a slight gradation should do the trick.

I really would like to see the expression on the bride's father's face when she kisses her husband. :)

[John Keates]

RaDeaton,
thanks for the compliment. I am enjoying watching the progress of your entry.

digitaldecoy,
I agree about the windows. I might do the gradient in post. Glad you think the vignette works.

[Ivy00]

awww nothing like a little romance, love the textures on the alien. I think she needs a bigger ring, but that could just be the evil female side of me speaking :)

[headtrip]

The vignette has definitely made a difference.

Well done, you've obviously put in a lot of work, and it shows.

Great stuff :beer:

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1210299840_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1210299840_large.jpg)

Here is the latest render. I think I have way too much sss depth on the bride but it doesn't show up so much small. I might find time to do another render.

The main change here is the curve of the brides arm.

[John Keates]

Thanks headtrip for the encouragement. I have been staring at this so long now I can't see it any more.

[ahmetekn]

Hey John, congrats! Beautiful composition, cool details and realistic render. :thumbsup: I like to ligting in the scene. Did you use to final geather, global illuminitaon etc.? Keep it up :applause:

Cheers

[John Keates]

Hi ahmetekn, thanks for the kind words. Yeah, I did use final gather. There is a sky dome which is the main source of ambient light in the scene (I probably should have payed more attention to the map on the dome but never mind).

Also, I used a lot of spots. They are a good way to focus attention. For instance, I used a little diddy one on the brides face.

I used pretty much every render gizmo in the book... FG, DOF, SSS, Volumics, Area lights... it all added up rather nastily to a render time of about 20 hrs for the large render. I could certainly have optimised it but then it is only a still...

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1210335729_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1210335729_large.jpg)

I am playing with cropping the image. What do you think?

[medunecer]

Hey John! It's coming a good image. I prefer the one not cropped.

Then, you can try to work in Photoshop on the girl's hair. The alien is great!

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1210346759_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1210346759_large.jpg)

I thought I would up the romance factor with some blur tricks.

[John Keates]

Hi medunecer,

I started to apply the blur on the cropped version but I may change my mind if people can persuade me that the non cropped one is better.

For me , the cropped version is a little more intimate while the non cropped one is about 2 points more funny.

I would be interested to know why you prefer the non-cropped one.

[digitaldecoy]

It feels quite uncomfortable how the eyeball is 'touching' the right frame of the picture now. I don't see what you gain with the crop. But what about darkening the right side of the alien broom a bit?

I really like the blur! It gives the scene more atmosphere.

[John Keates]

It feels quite uncomfortable how the eyeball is 'touching' the right frame of the picture now. I don't see what you gain with the crop. But what about darkening the right side of the alien broom a bit?

I really like the blur! It gives the scene more atmosphere.

Hi digitaldecoy,

Yeah, I guess the eye touching the side is un-comfortable. I could crop it further or roll-back on the crop. Cropping more was intended to make the composition look more intimate and also get rid of the impression that these are little models stuck in a scene (if you know what I mean).

Actualy, I am more worried about the eye that is pointing at the bride as it coincides with the edge of the wedding machine. I was hoping to elleviate that with the DOF. It is hard to get all the eyes in good places when there are so many of them.

I'm glad you like the blur... I think it suits the image and hopefuly contrasts with the wedding machine to add to the humour.

[John Keates]

http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1210419892_medium.jpg (http://assets.cgsociety.org/challenge/entries/20/14546/14546_1210419892_large.jpg)

NEWS FLASH

They say that opposites attract. Well here is an example that beats all expectations! A humanoid woman and an octimal (eight based) creature from the planet Verclo were married yesterday in a ceremony that will likely go down in history, if only because of the ensuing legal proceedings. Since inter-species marriage is now accepted, the major complication is that the creature is not in fact a single creature, but a community of brothers, all having taken on their own roles as part of a super organism. Fourty one of these creatures are living as one, some forming legs, some eyes, some tentacles etc. When asked, Katy, an Irish protestant age 26 said that she had never been happier. “The sense of communal love that the members of Terry (the alien super-organism) need to feel for each other in order that they stay a coherent unit is something that they were willing to share and I feel that it is a great privilege to be a part of such matrimony”. Katy's parents, perhaps surprisingly, were also happy with the arrangement, her father announcing at the wedding that “Terry shares many features with Katy. Some superficial such as the green eyes and some deeper, such as the interest in mathematics. Terry has been teaching us all the benefits of an octimal number system which has been particularly useful in deciding how to split the costs of the wedding.”. Observers have also noticed that Terrys' four irises are in the shape of four-leaf-clovers which are a symbol of unity in his culture and maybe this is another draw. However, some people are disgusted at the union, Katy's local minister saying that it is “An unholy combination of polyandry and bestiality”. The marriage did not take place in his parish but in an octimal church many light years away in Verclo. People have noticed that Katy appears pregnant and this has also caused a stir. “We won't be able to have a baby together so I thought it would be nice to have a simulated one installed to show that this is, in many ways, a marriage of passion”. Terry explained that, in his culture, memes (the thought equivalent of genes) are considered higher than genes and the couple consider themselves not a marriage of bodies, but a marriage of ideas. “Memes are truly inter-species things and have a great potential to unify us all, just as long as we are interested in universal memes... universal truths, such as mathematics. We consider ourselves a marriage if ideas, transcending our biological heritage”. We have yet to see if the lawyers will see things this way. The couple are now enjoying a honey-moon in a simulated environment of eight islands in a sea of guinness, just off the M4 near Swindon, England.

[Spin99]

lmao! Nice one John Keates. Caption very funny. wtg!

[Fetus23]

What a seriously messed up wedding night that would be....lets hope they just talk all night long :D. I like the robo chappel enviroment you've constructed. Grats on finishing John!

-cheers
love

[medunecer]

Hi John! Congratulations for your final image! I prefer the non cropped one just because I like the alien very much...just to see him from the top to the bottom. Anyway the cropped final one is absolutely great! Well done my friend and good luck!

[John Keates]

Hi Spin99,

I am glad you like the caption. It is fun to have something like that in the back of your head as you work, and the image becomes more meaningfull.

Hi Fetus23,

Yeah, I tried not to think too much about the ins and outs of the relationship... as it were.

Hi medunecer,

I know what you mean about the cropped version and the legs. It was a tough call. No time for regret though.

[JoPu]

Cool Images, good luck with the challenge

[Paul4wood]

Hi, John. Congratulations on completing your cool image! Now let's climb out of here and get some of that sunshine.

:beer:
Cheers!

[John Keates]

Sunshine?... yes, I remember that I think...

Hmm... England in the spring... :)

[na]

Congrats on finishing John, looks great!

[HornlessUnicorn]

Congratulations, John! This is a great job!:applause: Very imaginative - like the alien's design a lot - totaly alien alien :) hehe... The bride also looks great and the pose.

The best of luck to you!

Dimitrij. :beer:

[John Keates]

Thanks guys, means a lot. What a nice, communal activity this is!

[Ferx]

Hey John, cool image!! Love the atmosphere on your image!! Great design on the alien!! And the story is a perfect complement for the image, simply cool!! :D Congrtaulations for this great work!! Good luck !! And time for a well deserved cold beer!! Cheers mate!! :beer:

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