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Doublecrash
03-21-2008, 03:57 AM
Hi guys, my (old, alas) PC blew up a couple of weeks ago, and I had to buy a new videocard and a new monitor. Monitor is fantastic, LCD 22, but the only videocard I could afford to buy was an AGP ATI Radeon 2600 with 512 MB of video memory. In the process, my main HD got busted too, so I had to re-install XSI. First, a pop-up appears telling me I lack an OpenGL accelerator board. :scream: Then, everytime I open a scene, XSI tells me there's OpenGL shadows missing. :rolleyes:

Plus, XSI has become very unstable. Sometimes it freezes, and sometimes it is unable to open saved scenes (so I have to revert to merge the old ones in a new one). Before I had a very old NVidia GeForce 3 (!!) with only 64MB and I thought I was improving... I had no perceivable gain in speed... sometimes XSI seems even slower! :sad:

So I dig around in some 2,720 websites, ATI.com included of course, and... well, I can't understand: they kept saying that I have to set OpenGL from the Catalyst driver, I do so... to no avail. So I'm asking, is there a known issue with my videocard and XSI?

I'm saving up money to buy a new machine, and on that I will have a certified NVidia card for sure... but... in the meanwhile? Any suggestions?

Thanks a lot in advance.

Stefano

coremi
03-21-2008, 08:00 AM
i have used only 2 ATI card so far and both had problems with OpenGL, no matter the application or games.

Doublecrash
03-21-2008, 04:09 PM
Thanks... I was fearing just something like that :(

brianod
03-21-2008, 05:47 PM
I ordered a Sapphire 2600 Pro AGP card to speed up my system and I got the same error you got from XSI Mod Tool. XSI can't see the Opengl features even though the card supports Opengl 2.0. I also got that ARB Shadows error.

Maya also hated this card and wouldn't even run. I sent it back to Newegg and ordered all new parts for my system. See my recent post on my budget 3d system.

I'm currently using a firegl 3100 ($25 on ebay) which works fine with both Maya and XSI but doesn't support High Quality Display mode in Maya. Still the card works fine and is certified for both apps. I'm looking at a 7100 firegl in the near future.

Doublecrash
03-22-2008, 01:02 AM
Thanks a lot for your insight. I also looked at your post about the budget PC... thanks for sharing.

The vendor won't take my Sapphire 2600 back. Yes, I have the same videocard, exactly. So I will have to wait until I'll have the money. I will go for a PNY Quadro. I use only XSI, and I know that it works wonders with the Quadro series.

brianod
03-22-2008, 04:38 AM
Stefano,

That's unfortunate that your dealer won't take the card back. It is a good, cheap DirectX10 gaming card that others would be interested in. I don't know if you do Ebay but you would be able to get close to what you paid for it selling it that way. Check the prices that they are selling for on Ebay.

This new system has been such a revelation to me. For a long time I put up with Maya and XSI crashes and freezing and display quirks with people telling me that it was just the app screwing up and there was nothing to fix it.

But I now have both apps running smooth as silk, very stable and fast and the ability to get stuff done takes a lot of the frustration out of learning this stuff.

I hope you get your problems solved and can get working again. In general, I find that XSI is much more forgiving and versatile in regards to video cards. Maya is very finicky about what works and how well in video hardware.

I can't decide which app to learn, Maya or XSI. Maya is such a standard but XSI is very elegant with its text based interface and huge polygon handling capability. I find it difficult to be productive in both, I need to make a decision. XSI Foundation for $500 is just an amazing bargain for the money. I don't know whether Moondust will be incorporated into Foundation 7 when released but it is very tempting.

Unfortunately, I think XSI is vulnerable to a buyout by Autodesk. Modo is amazing too at $900 but it doesn't do bones/rigging yet its modeling tools are a revelation. I had the 30 day trial and was very impressed but I won't be buying it.

Pick one tool and learn it well and hope that it stays relevant in the working world.

Doublecrash
03-22-2008, 03:13 PM
Stefano,

That's unfortunate that your dealer won't take the card back. It is a good, cheap DirectX10 gaming card that others would be interested in. I don't know if you do Ebay but you would be able to get close to what you paid for it selling it that way. Check the prices that they are selling for on Ebay.

I will do that. I think I'm the only one who never acquired nor sold anything on Ebay, LOL. But I will definitely will take a look.

I can't decide which app to learn, Maya or XSI. Maya is such a standard but XSI is very elegant with its text based interface and huge polygon handling capability. I find it difficult to be productive in both, I need to make a decision. XSI Foundation for $500 is just an amazing bargain for the money. I don't know whether Moondust will be incorporated into Foundation 7 when released but it is very tempting.

I'm a proud ex-Maya user :) -- And I made the switch when they offered XSI 4 Foundation at 350$ or something. Got immediately hooked by the interface: at last... everything where it shoud be... (I know this is very subjective and personal, so I will say that the UI of XSI is exactly what I was looking for after so much wandering in different apps).

That's why I'm very worried when I read what you say here below:

Unfortunately, I think XSI is vulnerable to a buyout by Autodesk.

Oh my... please tell me they are only rumors... :( This would suck bigtime...

Thanks for your answers and for this exchange, btw.

newbie153
03-22-2008, 08:39 PM
thanks, i was gonna buy this ati radeon 3870 card (pretty nice specs for $200) but now that you told me I'm not buying it .

ThE_JacO
03-23-2008, 12:36 AM
If you're on a budget a decent gaming card will be almost as good (if not as good) as a quadro in nearly all respects. It's only ATI that even after years of reports and feedback still insists on hiring spastic dogs to write their drivers.

freeschwag
03-23-2008, 06:22 PM
this might be an interesting read over here:


http://community.softimage.com/showthread.php?t=722

Doublecrash
03-23-2008, 07:02 PM
If you're on a budget a decent gaming card will be almost as good (if not as good) as a quadro in nearly all respects. It's only ATI that even after years of reports and feedback still insists on hiring spastic dogs to write their drivers.

You're right. At the end, I re-installed my old nVidia GeForce3 (yes, 3), and it works better... incredible! With the Sapphire I had even problems with render memory. XSI freezed with a couple of 1024x1024 textures. So, last night I gave up, dismounted the Sapphire and re-installed the old 64MB GeForce3 (a 2002 card!)... no more freezes. I will go for the Quadro570, the price is affordable (in a month or so, ehm...)

Thank you for answering.

Doublecrash
03-23-2008, 07:12 PM
this might be an interesting read over here:


http://community.softimage.com/showthread.php?t=722

Indeed. Lots of info. Thanks a lot for pointing me on this one.

Bullit
03-25-2008, 10:49 AM
I have a Mobility Radeon 9700 from 2 years ago and works very well. So your problem must be the drivers you choose.

brianod
03-25-2008, 11:16 AM
All the ATI 9000 series have a good track record with Maya and XSI. I was using my All In Wonder 9200 and it worked well but was pretty slow on the redraws.

There are 3 different drivers for the 2600 Pro and I tried all 3. The supplied CD drivers, the current Sapphire ones on the Web and the Omega drivers, which were very interesting. The Omega drivers allow the card to run in 9700 emulation mode. In fact, if Stefano is still stuck with his unreturnable card, I recommend he try the Omega Drivers.

But still, all the drivers had some form of errors in XSI and Maya, Maya wouldn't even open and XSI didn't recognize the OpenGL features and had that ARB shadows disabled.

I sent my 2600 Pro back and am currently using a very inexpensive Firegl (V3100) and both 3D apps run well.

It's not unusual for the older series cards to run well in 3D because the video card makers main market is targeted at DirectX gamers and the opengl market is actually very small.

Ohmanoggin
03-26-2008, 12:45 AM
"...Unfortunately, I think XSI is vulnerable to a buyout by Autodesk. "

There is no reason to believe this. While Autodesk is a big company- Avid, who owns Softimage, is pretty big too. Maya got bought because SGI needed cash and sold Alias to an investment group, who then sold it to Autodesk.

Ohmanoggin

brianod
03-26-2008, 01:56 AM
"...Unfortunately, I think XSI is vulnerable to a buyout by Autodesk. "

I said this as an aside during this exchange and I have to say, I have no proof of this. This was just idle speculation on my part.

I do think Adobe is in the market to aquire a 3D app as it's the only missing component in it's extensive DCC software suite. Also, they are doing a tour right now in conjunction with the Cinema 4D people. Is there an alliance with these two in the future? Again, idle speculation on my part.

These 3D programs are so expensive to maintain and upgrade that big pockets are needed to stay competitive. Autodesk actually has not done a bad job with Maya since they acquired it but Max and Maya target much of the same marketplace, I have to wonder what their intentions are to maintain both.

At any rate, this is the wrong forum to discuss this and I hope we can get back on the topic of video cards and close this diversionary topic (which I admit, I started).

ThE_JacO
03-26-2008, 02:48 AM
It's not unusual for the older series cards to run well in 3D because the video card makers main market is targeted at DirectX gamers and the opengl market is actually very small.

Absolute non-sense.
In first place the openGL market isn't that small, and secondly there are plenty developers who prefer OGL over DX for games too, so it's not like games are only released in DX.
Between that and the autodesk statement, or the adobe buying cinema (which btw is owned already by one of the biggest cad/cam companies already) you're going out pretty random in this thread :)

Doublecrash
03-27-2008, 01:53 PM
In fact, if Stefano is still stuck with his unreturnable card, I recommend he try the Omega Drivers.

I tried them all. Not wanting to waste the money I just spent. No avail. Right now I've re-installed my very very old GeForce3 (works fine but a bit slow), and I put on sell the Sapphire on Italian ebay. In a month or so I will be able to afford a Quadro570.

Well, I have to thank you all for your inputs and insights. :)

Doublecrash
03-27-2008, 01:55 PM
"...Unfortunately, I think XSI is vulnerable to a buyout by Autodesk. "

There is no reason to believe this. While Autodesk is a big company- Avid, who owns Softimage, is pretty big too. Maya got bought because SGI needed cash and sold Alias to an investment group, who then sold it to Autodesk.

Ohmanoggin

This is a relief... ^_^

luceric
03-29-2008, 04:14 AM
Hi, I'm from Softimage

But still, all the drivers had some form of errors in XSI and Maya, Maya wouldn't even open and XSI didn't recognize the OpenGL features and had that ARB shadows disabled.
That's an annoying warning. It just means that this extensions is not supported by the card and can't be used in the RealTime Shader mode, It's without consequence and doesn't necessarily mean the card isn't recongnized. You don't need it.

It's not unusual for the older series cards to run well in 3D because the video card makers main market is targeted at DirectX gamers and the opengl market is actually very small.That's going to change.
The reason why older cards work almost as well as the newer ones with OpenGL CAD applications is that they don't make enough use of the newer OpenGL features. But the next version of XSI will continue its work to make much better use of newer graphic cards features and so the performance will scale much better with newer GPUs

this might be an interesting read over here:
http://community.softimage.com/showthread.php?t=722right

p.s. : there is no way in heck that Avid would sell Softimage to Autodesk, which is a competitor of Avid in the video market. just sayin'

ThE_JacO
03-29-2008, 07:28 PM
p.s. : there is no way in heck that Avid would sell Softimage to Autodesk, which is a competitor of Avid in the video market. just sayin'

Not to mention it would raise the anti-trust eyebrows even higher than it is, and it's pretty perched already from some CAD/CAM related business from a while ago.

Alter-Dimension
03-30-2008, 07:29 PM
I currently have the 2600 PRO card installed and I haven't had any problems in XSI whatsoever. If anything, XSI runs a little smoother now (compared to my old GeForce 7300). So maybe it is your drivers? At first I had problems running a few games but after I updated the drivers the problems went away.

brianod
03-30-2008, 08:33 PM
Wow, that's interesting that your works. The original starter of this post and I based our almost identical experiences on the same Sapphire brand model 2600 pro with 512mb memory. What brand is yours, how much memory and which drivers did you upgrade to? Also which version of XSI are you running?

Alter-Dimension
03-31-2008, 08:04 PM
Wow, that's interesting that your works. The original starter of this post and I based our almost identical experiences on the same Sapphire brand model 2600 pro with 512mb memory. What brand is yours, how much memory and which drivers did you upgrade to? Also which version of XSI are you running?

My card - VisionTek HD 2600 PRO 512MB GDDR2

Drivers - I installed the drivers released earlier this month:
http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx?p=mce/radeonx-mce

And I am running XSI 6.

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03-31-2008, 08:04 PM
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