CGTalk - How to Paint game textures

AC_Shrike

05-10-2003, 04:01 AM

I was astonished by the difference in working with a mouse and a tablet. I cannot imagine working without a tablet now. I use a Wacom Intuos2 9x12, a bit pricey, but worth every penny.

Seams can be tricky. Working at true res is probably best. Often when you size down a single pixel line, it will blur the edges, causing a loss of crispness. Single pixel brushes are quite useful. In Photoshop, if you left click the brush on the top menu bar and crank down the hardness to something like 7 or 10, you'll get a pretty crisp edged brush. Using the dodge and burn tools are a great way to go, but painting seperate layers is also useful, allowing for easier editing. Btw, that Kenneth Scott does some very high quality work, doesn't he?

So, yes, get a tablet. Even a Graphire will be much better than using the mouse. Best of luck.:)

bugo

05-10-2003, 04:58 AM

Hey Vailias can you post it to us!?

It will be wonderfull to see how do you work!

Xaint

05-13-2003, 08:00 PM

I'm also interested in how to paint machinery like this.
(Another ken Scott work.):cool:

Xaint

05-13-2003, 08:15 PM

Ayeah, About clothing and seams:

http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/cottages/qbranch/tutorials/cloth/part2.shtml

Matt

05-17-2003, 10:36 PM

What I do, is create textures at double the size, then duplicate the image. One, I scale using bicubic, and the other I scale using nearest-neighbor. Sometimes, nearest-neighbor brings better results in detailed areas, and it doesn't anti-alias. Then I drop both into 2 layers, and work on them, deciding which parts I want to be the bicubic, and which I want to be the nearest-neighbor, and blend away.

After this is done, I touch it all up with pixel work.

Xaint

05-31-2003, 12:25 AM

Well, Matt this is a fine technique you introduced to us. Thank you for sharing.:thumbsup:

moose droppings

05-31-2003, 08:20 AM

yeah get a tablet. Then again i know some guys who do some amazing work with a mouse (go to www.machall.com ian there uses just a mouse... ive tried converting him - i know him personally - but he never listens... hrmp).

studying the work of the masters is a good idea, as is to take hints from them. I wouldnt try following their footsteps literally, but more figuratively. erm... i mean, dont try and copy what they do, but learn from what works for them, and figure a way for it to work for you, and adapt upon it. just a little lesson ive lived by kinda.

alot of what you want to know and learn too comes with 1 thing that 17 years of violin lessons taught me (i was a musician before artists 4 years ago)

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.

nothing will help you more than learning by experience - so do more, study some, but do more.

anywho, here are some examples of my work, and how i get that 1px thing without using a 1 px brush everywhere.

1.
this is a head from a skinning challenge mr. seal had a while back. i made the head skin at 256x512, then scaled down to 128x256. you can see there you lose a lot of detail even when using a sharpen or unsharp mask filter.

Most of the time i will just work at the res it will be in, and apply a final levels (manual adjusting) and sharpen filter at 25% (using the fade filter command). it helps, and helps add the final pizzaz you may need.

img (sorry for the size of these)
http://bb.mooseskins.com/skin_det2.jpg

2.

this is some armor that shows before and after using the levels and sharpen. just to show, that that little bit may be a way to get that "secret look." some may say its cheating, and well i dont think it is. We as artists use the tools available to us, its when we abuse them that things begin to suck.

http://bb.mooseskins.com/skin_det1.jpg

if you have any questions, ill do what i can to help ya. im no master, but i do know a few things.

hope this helps some

dur23

05-31-2003, 10:18 AM

Shut up moose you are a master :P

Xaint

05-31-2003, 02:26 PM

Thank you guys for not letting this thread disappier in the sinker. Valuable post moose droppings, thanks!:thumbsup:

I think it's no cheating to use the tools given. It's like thinking that the computer does the work, not the artist. Then realize that without the artist the computer does nothing. (maybe defragmenting the hard drives):eek: People who are not using computers for profession, just playing solitare tends to think that way. (lill' of philosophy doesn't hurt - I hope)

FatherGlory

05-31-2003, 05:33 PM

I 100% agree with you Moose.

All my textures are painted at twice if not 3 times that of my intended target. On my current game one of the artists painted the textures for a character at proper rez 256x256 but when it came time to do ingame cinematics and high rez renders you can't scale the image up so its pixelated and fuzzy. And then if you want images that size you will have to repaint the texture!

If I paint a 256 map I start with a 512x512 sometimes even 1024x1024. Also higher rez maps work much better in Deep Paint 3D which I use quite a bit. Also in photoshop load the Square brushes. There my favorites! :) I also find in stead of dodging and burning. Create a Overlay layer and use black and white and small opacitys to get the same effect. And since its in a layer you can mess with alot more if not just axe the whole thing.

I have done comparisons too with a reduce down and 50% sharpen..etc. and there is virtually no difference at all.

I also agree with everyone else. Tablets are MUST. Its one of thee most essential tools for digital artist/ painters.

Anyway just my 2cents. hehe :beer:

Matt

06-02-2003, 12:10 AM

Remember when you sharpen, do NOT sharpen the final layer.

Select All, Copy Merged, Create a new layer with the image you copied (Should be the entire picture.) Then convert that layer to grayscale and use an unsharp mask filter on it to sharpen it to your desired level. Then experiment with layer fill opacities and blend modes to get the best result. The reasons for this are because when you use any sharpen filter, it creates unwanted color variations in areas and can even change subtle greens to bright blues if you're not careful. To see what I mean, take any image and run the sharpen filter like 100 times on it. You'll see that it becomes a mosaic of different colors, some which weren't even in the picture to begin with. With the method I've stated above, you not only keep your original work (in the layers below) but you have complete control over sharpness and it won't change the colors (If you use an overlay or screen blend mode.)

moose droppings

06-02-2003, 12:27 AM

dur: hehe thanks, i dont think so personally, however thank you :)

matt, i agree.

i dont use another copied layer, just to save time i apply the filter and use the fade command, and adjust stuff there. granted, its more permanent, but i dont like working with more than one layer usually (at most i will have 5, but i flatten when i get more than 8). just me personally ;) generally one time wtih sharpen doesnt bork the image too much, although it can if your colors are high key and edges already have a lot of contrast to start.

when it comes to that layer technique, i will dup the final layer (unsharpened) twice. one of them i sharpen and the other i gauss blur at 5. i set the blur to 30% opacity and softlight, and the sharpen usually to 50% opacity and softlight as well. that usually fixes any leveling issues i may have, but if not ill go in and manually adjust the rgb, and each channel to my liking.

when im playing with stuff in the begining, i will save my levels or variations so i can come back to em if ps quits or crashes or so i can work more the next day without guessing whta colors work.

father glory: :) i dunno about going 3 times the size, but hell if it works for you do it :D. but yeah, if you've got cinematics its a damn good idea to start high (when i did some short animations in school i had a 5000x5000 texture... eek. good thing i axed textures and went with an outline look... hah). and yes, repainting texture == the suck. I have never used DeepPaint 3d, im a Painter3d dude... mainly because i dont run Windows, heh i just have my precious G3 400... with Mac os 9 (os 10 works, but runs photoshop like assholio). i will have to give the square brushes a shot, it sounds interesting. i can see where they would benefit - with getting hella sharp edges at the corners. if you worked in ps7, you could make the rotation of the brush go with the initial direction of the pen..... hhhrrrrm. or you could just use painter ;)

//editOT whoa you worked on metroid prime! SICK dude! hah i have yet to get a cube, but hopefully soon; and i get a job (i have an interview next saturday for meh first industry gig) so maybe ill bring in some more cash than what the home depot has to give me :D

yeah the new wacoms rock... my old wacom still works, but i want 1024 levels of pressure damnit!

Matt

06-02-2003, 06:39 AM

I've run across a lot of people who work with few, if not just a single layer. I typically go anywhere from 60 to 200 layers (Always organized in folders of course.) With the various effects, for complete control. I'm a mouseman myself, although I have an old serial tablet. I've never quite gotten it to work with WindowsXP, so I just gave up on it although I loved it when I used it in Windows95. The only problem is, any time I've gotten it to work on WindowsXP, the pressure tip doesn't work, and odd banding occurs. I'll buy a Wacom sometime when I feel I really need it. I run Photoshop 7, Painter 7, and Adobe Streamline and FlashMX for my linework. (If I need a precise result.)

Xaint

06-22-2003, 06:19 PM

Hello again! Anybody havin' good tricks on correcting seams?

Originally posted by Xaint
I'm also interested in how to paint machinery like this.
(Another ken Scott work.):cool:
-Still interested.

Hey Moose, Why the old pics you posted didn't show up? They were very comprehensive, and I haven't saved the page to my hdd. I've got the point then, but think of people catching up this thread late.
:wavey:

moose droppings

06-23-2003, 07:41 AM

xaint, sorry i did some massive cleaning of my img hosting site, and deleted everything. ill reupload those images now :)

ive had similar problems with pressure, but i dont think its much to do with the pad itself, but os 10 and painter 7. the 7.01 update fixes it im pretty sure, but now that 8 is out (and is dirt cheap) it works just dandy fo me.... but 10 doesnt run as fast as id like it, so that problem really means nothing. hah.

EricChadwick

06-23-2003, 02:09 PM

Xaint,

David King's tutorial might help.

http://www.geocities.com/kingofdaveness/tut_stepbystep.html
http://www.geocities.com/kingofdaveness/tut_bas10.jpg

pedantic

06-26-2003, 05:45 AM

Great post guys, informative on a number of issues. I'll add my two bob and recommend to those using Levels, to check out the Curves tool instead. I find it far more dynamic & accurate, gives you alot more control over your work.

I found a small tutorial on it here through google: Click (http://www.computer-darkroom.com/tutorials/tutorial_3_3.htm)

Doesn't take long at all to pickup how it works.

Bonsai

06-26-2003, 01:12 PM

I wonder why noone seems to work, as far as seams are concerend with a Vector Program like Illustrator or Freehand. I found it very useful and time saving to make seams in Illustrator , place them as a mask in PS afterwards and continue with whatever technique is appropriate from thereon. Imho one can control the flow and the look very good and exact just with a curve :) ... Just a suggestion ....

Xaint

06-26-2003, 03:52 PM

Good tips guys thanx to all!

What about seams wich are appear at the join, when you cut the uv-s? Any useful idea could come, this is just a question that come in my mind lately.:cool:

EricChadwick

06-26-2003, 04:12 PM

3d paint is the quickest.

Projection paint is the best... basically you paint in 2D, then the program distorts the texture to fit it seamlessly across surface, into your UVs. Difficult to explain, but easy to see in a demo.

Deep Paint 3D, ZBrush have this, altho DP3D seems easier to use.

Do any other programs have projection paint?

Xaint

06-26-2003, 08:20 PM

What about some photoshop tricks, the hard way... or it shouldn't be hard?

EricChadwick

06-26-2003, 08:37 PM

A couple tips I've come across...

1. The more you stitch the UVs together, the less seams you have to deal with. In other words, try to make the UV mesh as contiguous as possible.

2. Place the UV seams carefully. Along a natural material boundry, like a belt. Where it is less likely to be seen, like along the inside of the leg. Etc.

3. Use solid colors along UV edges. Very easy and quick, but works only in rare cases.

4. Use 3d paint! But only for prelim layout, and final seam fixing, in my opinion. None of them have great painting tools.

Anyhow, my opinions.

NileshXYZ

06-27-2003, 03:32 PM

Hey i just got this months free issue of game Developer this week and it has a very good 6 page artical titled 'Beautiful Yet Friendly Part2 : Maximizing Efficiency' by Guillaume Provost (hired at age 17)

i think they will post on the website soon if they have not already... its free to register with them
http://www.gamasutra.com/
http://www.gdmag.com/homepage.htm

AC_Shrike

06-27-2003, 03:46 PM

Got it, read it, loved it. =)

Xaint

06-28-2003, 12:23 AM

I'd like to have a necklance bend over the texture. I have the chain in staight position. How can it be done in photoshop?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Posm, I don't know about 3d paint. Are you referrung to Maya's artisan?
But I have tried Deep Paint 99 Siggraph edition. Maybe an up to date version could replace photoshop if somebody takes the time to master it.

EricChadwick

06-29-2003, 05:50 PM

[oops]

EricChadwick

06-29-2003, 05:54 PM

That Game Developer article was great. The first part too, good reading for game artists looking to learn.

Xaint, nope, not Artisan. Talking about Deep Paint 3D, Body Paint 3D, ZBrush, etc. These tools greatly speed up the seam-fixing process. Try one out, they all have free demos.

About the necklace, there are a couple ways, but most will not work well for a major amount of bending (like curving around a neck), since Photoshop only pushes pixels around. You'll just get smeared chain links, rather than real-looking bending.

There's a Filter at the top of the list in PS7 for warping the image (can't remember the name). There's also the Displace filter... feed it a displacment map and it will bend your image. I think though that you'll get better results if you do the chain in 3D. Good luck!

yinako

07-01-2003, 04:39 AM

[i]4. Use 3d paint! But only for prelim layout, and final seam fixing, in my opinion. None of them have great painting tools.[/B]

I find 3D paint doesn't offer enough tools for painting, ie painter like or ps like, So I always endup switching..and I find the results are essentually the same as you just paint in 2D with "correct" UV layout.

Maverick3d

07-09-2003, 04:38 PM

This is a great thread. I'd like to see it keep going. :thumbsup:

I found this video texturing tutorial by Crystalmesh usefull:

http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?polycount/cottages/crystalmesh3d/skiningvidtut.avi

It uses the Techsmith codec (www.techsmith.com) and you have have to be a signup with Vileplanet to download the avi. Sorry. :thumbsdow

Also:
http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/video-tut-list.shtml

moose droppings

07-10-2003, 05:38 PM

i cant agree more with the placement of uv seams! In addition to thinking of it as your model flows (ie, arm running into wristband/glove etc), think of how you want the texture to flow too.

if you want a really pronounced area, ie a dipin the metal, or flesh, or whatever, put a seam there. dont put seams everywhere you want high spots, but you can be selective with how you want the texture to flow on the mesh, and how its going to work best when you paint it. (http://www.mooseskins.com/gallery/skins/vaga.html - an example of a skin and uvs i did -- didnt dothe model -- where i discovered the wonders of that precise uv-texture planning)

as for photoshop tricks, i generally use 2 -3 layers. a layer set to screen for the uvs, and a layer to paint on. sometimes, ill make the background layer a color layer, where i set up initial color values, then go in over top of that with a new layer and color like mad. In the end the background layer is useless, other than for the inital set up of your colors.

You can always just use grays and come back later with color too, ive seen that technique work great

thomaspecht

07-20-2003, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by posm
3d paint is the quickest.
...
Do any other programs have projection paint?

alias' studiopaint has it and imho it works better than deep paint 3d's, that is: distortion issues are handled better. in addition it has hardware acceleration for the 3d view and great hardware-brushes that are incredibly fast and superior to anything i have seen in other paint-tools and the stencils are cool. plus it's nicely integrated into maya. downside is that it's not 99 cent at your local store and apparently on windows only comes as an option of studiotools these days. also, i'm not aware if the windows version is functional identical to the original thing running on unix - which i'm referring to.

overall, i found deep paint 3d ok for a rough start and final seam-fixing, but it's paint and layer tools are so over-organized that it's really frustrating to work with these over time.
anyone experience ugly seams when re-importing projected stuff from photoshop? i always have to clear them up and it annoys me to death.
unfortunately, deep paint seems to be the only 3d painter on windows these days, apart from zbrush, which features an ui that must have been designed for aliens ;)

best thing for me would be some plugin that sits between 3d and 2d application and let's you utilize all your familiar 3d and 2d tools without forcing you to use yet another tool...

... does cebas' ghostpainter feature projection paint?

Levitateme

07-21-2003, 09:04 AM

great responce GI, i was hoping to find a solution to getting rid o seams my self. the thing about zbrush UI,,,its overwhelming, if anyone finds some great tutorials on fixing seams please post.

EricChadwick

07-21-2003, 02:24 PM

Ghostpainter2 does not have projection paint. BodyPaint3D is available as a standalone app., but alas no projection paint there either. GIJoe thanks for your insights, a good read.

Levitateme there's a great tutorial that comes with the TextureMaster script (projection painter) for ZBrush.
http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002034

ZScript is the best tutorial generator/player I've seen anywhere, very cool feature. Like a time-lapse vid, but in the app itself. The tutorial makes it very clear how to use TextureMaster for painting.

The ZBrush UI reminds me of Bryce... another attempt at revolutionizing the way we should interact. Some dig it, most don't. I think it's still usable though, I was able to get some tests worked out with the demo, might buy it if I end up needing it.

thomaspecht

07-21-2003, 05:25 PM

ah, shame on me, i forgot about bodypaint. i've tried it a while back for a comparison to deep paint 3d but didn't like the workflow and wasn't able to locate projection paint and therefore gave up. probably tailored to fit the cinema4d-users.

as for zbrush - i know that it has wicked features and can also be used for sculpting and probably many other tasks (plus i always miss that script-feature in photoshop and deep paint) - but i can't stand a user interface that is constantly changing, moving palettes out of your focus, etc. plus the fonts and sliders are very small and hard to recognize at higher resolutions.
the tutorial feature is very cool - reminds me of the modelling tutorials that ran inside izware's nendo.

btw. it just came to my mind that interactive effects (ifx) are manufacturing a scriptable (in TCL!) 2d/3d painting tool, thats capable of projection painting. it's called amazon paint and has an impressive track record but is limited to linux and irix (sgi unix) system environments.

i ordered an eval some weeks ago for my sgi system but apparently wasn't clever enough to set the license mechanism up and therefore couldn't evaluate ... *bangs head against monitor*
maybe someone else manages to get this up and running.

here's the link: http://www.ifx.com/pages/amazon/index.html

Levitateme

07-21-2003, 08:36 PM

yah, i wish they would bring amazon to windows.
i like zbrush also, but i think the whole UI is just overwhelming. you are right about its texturing, i think its the best i dont get any weird problems when painting. maybe ill do my texturing in Photoshop still, just use Zbrush to fix seams. but would be nice if there was some standard method that eveyone could use in Photoshop. thats all i was curious about.

Hellwolve

07-21-2003, 09:12 PM

I wish I could work with ZBrush's interface :p

Xaint

07-31-2003, 11:00 PM

:lightbulb How you guys paint HAIR?
It's a tricky one, so tricks and tips are more than welcome.

*And guys, please keep your posts informative, this helps to maintain this thread clearr.*

EricChadwick

07-31-2003, 11:15 PM

Katherine Dinger has a couple good tuts for pure painting
http://div.dyndns.org/EK/tutorial/

There are tons of tuts for making alpha-mapped hair...
http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/modeling/hair/index.html
http://www.ordix.com/pfolio/tutorial/hair/index.htm
http://www6.big.or.jp/~kus/1024/tips/making01.html
http://antgib.f2o.org/tutorials/tutorials.html

Xaint

08-01-2003, 01:07 AM

I created this with Photoshop's grass-like brush. Iplayed with shape dynamics - size jitter and angle jitter set to initial direction. -This is for mouse users only;)

It's hard to get a tablet in the stores, where I live, but I'm on it.

Thanx for your posts, Posm.

I found something interesting for those, who have no tablet:
http://www.ordix.com/pfolio/tutorial/hair/transpmap02.htm
-thanx again for posm for the link.

pit

08-01-2003, 09:10 PM

Maxon has just released Bodypaint 2. Details and a demo here:

http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/bodypaint3d/bp3d_r2/bp3d_2_e.html

And yes - projection paint included.......

thomaspecht

08-02-2003, 12:03 AM

xaint: what about getting tablets through ebay? i would always buy via ebay since stores are asking way too much for my taste and it's not easy to find a more capable tablet (read: intuos at a reasonable size with custom pens) in a normal computer geek store ;)

on topic: recently, i had another try at zbrush and this time heavily customized the interface -> i moved all the stuff that's important to me from those !"§$%!! moving palettes into a custom floating toolbar that does not shift the stuff around (by ctrl+dragging menu entries into the workspace, check your manual on customizing the interface).

i can really recommend this to anyone who has difficulties with zbrush's ui like i had. now it actually starts to make sense.

The_Dude_Abidin

08-06-2003, 01:32 AM

what resolution are all these tex's at? his seems much more detailed probably because it was a larger tex map, also workin in a larger res the when done shrinking it helps add detail a little better too.

The_Dude

eoin

08-06-2003, 01:46 PM

test.

sorry new here.

Crazzy Legs

08-07-2003, 07:10 PM

if you got the big bucks....which I know most game companies aren't going to spend on one tool, but you could always invest in Amazon Paint. This is one heck of a paint program. Forget painting in 8 bits per channel. you get to paint in 16 and float. However, I don't think games are going to be projected at a film quality resolution anytime soon.

Lee3dee

09-07-2003, 12:58 AM

thx for starting this thread. This is one area of game design that I am the least good at. Thxs to all of you for the links and great info.

Its really appreciated! :beer:

kleinluka

09-07-2003, 10:41 AM

something for my portfolio. still lacking a door tho....forgive me :D
http://kleinluka.dodfi.net/textures/omai~.jpg

Xaint

09-08-2003, 06:18 PM

-iNw-kleinluka:
The texture look nice to me, many things depends on what surface will be underlying this. Only crit is that the little faces looks completely desaturated thus falling from the image, like they doesn't belong to it.
Next time please post info about why you show what you've linked. Do you need help in a particular area? You have a cool technique to present, or advice to give? Both are fine!

I'm happy that you guys like this thread. I learned much from it, and so others. It turned out to be very informative. Since I started this, I feel responsibility for the thread. So please guys keep this thread informative and easilly browsable by holding your good wishes and post them beside valuable infos. I know holding back things are not good, so if you wish you can send private mails to those who deserves the kind words.

Keep goin!!:beer:

JDinges

09-28-2003, 05:08 AM

I have a some-what related question to this thread, perhaps it was already mentioned somewhere and I missed it, but what kind of lighting should I put game models(fully textured) in for a demo reel?

Should I just use default lighting? Though that doesn't seem to light from every direction. Right now I have about 4 omni's lighting my model just so I can see it while tweeking the texture. So I'm wondering if I've missed a step or does everyone physicaly place however many lights into their scenes? And is it recommended to do that for a demo reel?

My model was texture baked so I've simulated the effect of some basic lighting but without any real lights you can't see the damn thing.

Any info is much appreciated!

Xaint

09-28-2003, 12:42 PM

Hi Darkax!

If you can't see the texture clearly (because of shadows), knock up the self illumination of the material U're using for the texture. This will brighten up dark areas.

As for the lighting of the scene, I think 3 lights are enough.
E.g. One from 45 degrees above, one from the opposite with half the power to brighten the shadows, and one back-light to bring out the shilouette. But it depends on one's taste, and this type of lighting looks cool on detailed models most of the cases.

I hope this helps!

moose droppings

09-28-2003, 07:03 PM

the nondescript answer:

light it how you think it should/could look in a game. make it look cool, but enough to fill out the forms. i generally use a warmer light in the front, cooler light from underneath, neutral from top, and bright ass cool light in the back. the tops and bottoms are about at half intensity, and the rim light is usually pretty high.

im by no means a good lighter, but it generally makes it look cool, and that is what matters! ;)

be like the fonz, make it cool.

JDinges

09-28-2003, 08:08 PM

Thanks a ton fellas

Ancient-Pig

09-29-2003, 05:00 AM

I wrote a quick tutorial on hand painting textures a little while ago..

I use the same techniques in this tut as I do at work (for some things)

Anyhow..might help..dunno

http://ancient-pig.com/tutorials/tutorial2/tut2.htm

Optigon-cg

10-01-2003, 08:56 AM

This is a great thread.

Ancient-Pig, nice tutorial. Thanks for sharing that. I only wish the images were a little higher rez.

Getting back to texturing hair. Check out this tutorial on Adobe's site:

http://www.adobe.com/print/tips/phsdigitalhair/main.html

This is the best I've come across for Photoshop users. Iapologize if this has already come up in this thread.

On lighting game models:

I've found that a three light setup with self-illumination between 50-70% to work best. I never had much luck with lights alone. I always seem to loose the subtle details that I've spent so many hours creating in my texture.

Schivosa2

10-14-2003, 06:32 AM

I am looking for tutorials on making textures for game levels. I have found some already but I am sure I have missed some. Please post any links to these kinds of tutorials if you know of any. Thanks in advance. Here is what I've found.

http://www.gurusnetwork.com/tutoria...shop/index.html

http://www.seizure57.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tuts/cb.htm

http://www.planetquake.com/hfx/tutorials.html

http://www.planetsack.com/tutorials.asp

http://www.i.nation.btinternet.co.u...tutorial_00.htm

Matt

10-18-2003, 04:55 AM

I think I'm going to make a tutorial soon on this.

HyPer

10-18-2003, 09:52 AM

its late.. deadlines are approaching and i dont quite have time to read 5 pages of stuff, What aspects are current topics? you all have probably seen my shepherd skins, what points do you all think i should make reguarding it? i think thats a good way for me to open up about it, see what about my texture work seems to be note worthy for me to discuss.

Iv heard requests for break downs of my technique which i could go on for hours about, or my workflow, or my removal of seams in my textures etc, are there any other major points i should try and discuss?

btw, GET YOUR TABLET ON EBAY! (i saw a note about that somewhere in here).. i saved 200 bucks on my 9x12 and its perfect.

im not sure how spacific im going to get, I may save the juicy bits for a class somewhere, iv been seriously considering teaching at the GDC for years now, i would want to team up with another artist to do so tho i think, not sure i can keep everyone interested on my own, me and per128 talked about doing that a few times, me and lando too talked about it..
not like the methods i used on the shepherd are like bleeding edge technology or anything, painted textures are going to be gone soon is my guess, replaced with pixel shaders.

thanks.

vrapp

10-20-2003, 06:29 PM

Well, I'm not entirely sure this is the right thread to post my question in, but at the same time I don't want to clutter the forum.

So, what's the issue?
I'm creating a lowpoly soldier-character, using roughly about 3000 polys. I'm also making a 1024x1024 bump- and texturemap for him.

The problem I ran into was that when I mirrored my UV's (I didn't do this concequently for the whole model, just the parts that needed to be identical) - I apperantly also reversed the polygon normals. :curious:
So, when I apply the bumpmap on, for example, his hands - only one of them look the way I want it to.
The other hand has it's bumps inverted. :sad:

Is there a way of getting around this issue, without having to resort to reversing the polygon-normals for the problem areas?

Excuse me if Im being stupid here, but I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall here. :banghead:

Peace/Vidar

Optigon-cg

10-20-2003, 07:57 PM

You'll probably get alot more responses if you post this in the 3"D/2D Technique" section under "Texturing".

Since I don't know what software you're using or how you went about reversing your UVs, I'll tell you how I accomplish what you're asking using Max 4.

After I model something, I determine what parts are going to have the same texture. Then I delete the opposite part like say one of the hands for example. Then I'll lay out my UVs, create a texture and apply it to the model. I would then select all the polys of the hand and clone it as a seperate object. Then mirror it and attach it to the wrist of the arm that's missing a hand. I've had no problems doing it that way.

Hope that helps.

EricChadwick

10-20-2003, 07:59 PM

HyPer, I'd just like to see a quick rundown of how you dealt with seams. Painting has been covered in depth in tons of tutorials, seam fixing hasn't afaik.

sysop, this really isn't the right thread for your problem. But I'll try to help.

Are you talking about face normals or texture normals (normal map)?

Which app are you seeing inverted normals within?

If it's a normal map you're talking about, then it depends on your game engine. Some handle mirrored normal maps OK, others don't. I know for a fact that 3ds max 5's viewport shader does not.

Shishka

10-27-2003, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by sysop
The problem I ran into was that when I mirrored my UV's (I didn't do this concequently for the whole model, just the parts that needed to be identical) - I apperantly also reversed the polygon normals. :curious:
So, when I apply the bumpmap on, for example, his hands - only one of them look the way I want it to.
The other hand has it's bumps inverted. :sad:

I'm new here, but I think I can field this one, as I've run into the issue before myself.

When you use symmetry to duplicate a texture on both sides of a model, keep in mind that you're reversing the texture. This has the unfortunate effect of reversing the bumps of a texture map. When you think about it, it makes sense; you're essentially applying the bumpmap inside out on the mirrored part of the model.

The only failsafe method of avoiding this is to avoid mirrored UV's. I know some games appear to have mirrored UV's, but it's beyond me how they avoid the inverted bumpmaps, unless they are writing code specifically for handling this issue. However, your best bet is to not count on that code and simply lay out your entire UV map.

ninjacore

11-03-2003, 09:28 PM

what a good helpful thread this is. i've spent the last hour or so reading it and looking at all the links.

I'm new to the whole game art genre, and i need to learn it fast. i'm currently doing my honours project at university which consists of creating game characters. i'm fine with the modelling, but when it comes to texturing, i'm struggling.

my current uni task at the moment is to make a self portrait in my honours project medium ( game art ). i have so far modelled my head using a photograph refrences of the front and side of my head. i want to use these same photos as my textures. how can i blend them together to fit my unwrapped head mesh? i've seen a tutorial for this technique somewhere, but godknows where. does anyone know about this tutorial?

thanks:)

KazuyaMochu

11-10-2003, 09:03 PM

@ Shiska ans sysop

I've ren into that problem my self.

the thing is, if you have to faces and than move one of the vertexetes over on top of the symetrical one, to make a mirrored uvw, you'll end up with a mirrored face. now, if you detache the vertexes that are comun to the faces, making them two independent faces, the game engine will read them as separate.

so... you should first of all, reset x-form everythink. meke sure they are ok, and them uvw them. dont do it on one side and then mirror, it will probably not work. do it for both sides separatly, but lay them in the same uvw place.
hope this helps in any way.

cheers,

Kazuya Mochu

MrHappyPants

11-20-2003, 01:21 AM

HYPER: I have a question for you

how do you decide what color to use for shadows/highlights? im tired of all the tuts that dont really explain how to paint shadows/highlights in color. every time i pick these colors its "off". i realize there is alot going on with reflected light but overall there should be some RULES that one can follow to picking correct shadow colors and highlight colors. colors that really POP in an engine.

for shadows do you increase saturation and decrease intensity?

thanks

Shishka

12-10-2003, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by Kazuya Mochu
@ Shiska ans sysop

I've ren into that problem my self.

the thing is, if you have to faces and than move one of the vertexetes over on top of the symetrical one, to make a mirrored uvw, you'll end up with a mirrored face. now, if you detache the vertexes that are comun to the faces, making them two independent faces, the game engine will read them as separate.

so... you should first of all, reset x-form everythink. meke sure they are ok, and them uvw them. dont do it on one side and then mirror, it will probably not work. do it for both sides separatly, but lay them in the same uvw place.
hope this helps in any way.

cheers,

Kazuya Mochu

Thanks, Kazuya. Let me make sure I'm understanding correctly.

If I were to model a figure, duplicate and flip the mesh, then UV each component seperately and combine the components together, I can match the UV's for both sides, and the symmetrical parts won't have inversed bumpmaps?

Shishka

12-10-2003, 11:51 PM

D'oheth. Double posted. Solly.

KazuyaMochu

12-11-2003, 12:00 PM

ok, there are two things I've worked with: characters and scenary.

on the characters, the model would be exactly in the middle of the view port. so if some of the faces overlaped on the uvws, the code would find de normal and adjust the lighting to correct the bump.

this should be done in tangent space, rather than object space, as I've been told.

now, scenerie... imagine a wall
made by 4 poligons:

______
|__|__|

you should not select the vertexes on the left and move them over to the ones on the right. you should select the 2 poligons on the left, detache then, and then move them over the same texture space.

-------------

now, as for separated uvws... I don't think that it is very important. I searched for aditional information, and aparentlly, it's generaly work for the coders, rather than artists.

the coder sees if it's mirrored or not, and correct's it, as I've said before. but most of this problems only work if you have you own engine... that's way most softwares don't allow overlapping on automatic uvws...

hope this helps

Kazuya Mochu

Boxsmiley

02-04-2004, 02:57 AM

Ancient-Pig, awesome tutorial, if you don't mind me asking what technique and steps did you take to unwrap the arm in such a way. It almost looks as if you unfolded a page that was folded in the middle. When i unwrap i always have to detach and unflatten both the bottom and the top. You seem to have done both with one unfold? Do you or anyone who understands mind sharing the techniques? Thanks.

EricChadwick

02-04-2004, 02:41 PM

Boxsmiley, check out his tutorial on the subject. The arm is probably a few planar projections stitched together. Some people use a cylinder projection for the arm, then cut/paste/stitch UV faces, then planars for the hands and stitch them together.
http://ancient-pig.com/tutorials/tutorial1/tutorial.htm

Ancient-Pig

02-13-2004, 09:24 PM

Thats exactly what the arm is... about 3 planar projections, planning that the seam run from the wrist to the armpit.

Im glad you like the tutorial. My techniques have sure changed since Ive been working.. Id like to update that one sometime in the future here, along with the work on my page.. old old old

Anyhow, glad you got use out of it man. Ill let you know when I update that tut.

Boxsmiley

02-15-2004, 09:58 PM

Posm, Ancient-Pig, thanks for sharing guys. Definitely let us know when you update. Thanks.

Dunbar

02-17-2004, 02:08 PM

Goodday everyone,
I have some questions about texturing for game art. If anyone would like to take a swing at it.
These are things that Im not really clear on, and wanted to learn.

1.What is the most common used file format for texture maps?

2.Why do people use Targa's, and what is the difference between 24bit and 32bit?

3.What is the average sizes, number of?? etc. 1-512x512, or 4-256x256, or 1-1024x1024??

4.What is the most common texture maps used in current game engines? etc. alpha, bump, color, diffuse, normals?????

5.Will there ever be a "God Sent" button in Maya to unfold and flatten UV's from a selected edge seam?? :)

Thanks for everyones time....
cheers

commy

02-17-2004, 02:47 PM

1) think uve answered that in 2) lol depends really u have dds etc as well

2)lossless and robust format 24=8bits per channel =3 channels ie rgb 32bit=4 channels ie RGBA basicaly 32bit tga's ave alpha channels

3) only god himself knows depends on the platform and the game xbox are 512 ps2 are 256 i think but dont quote me

4) color and alpha, bump and spec being used more frequently than before normals still quite rare

5) dunno

NuklearPanda

02-24-2004, 03:45 AM

Thank God for Dodge n' Burn.

nattnewman

02-29-2004, 11:26 AM

Dunbar,

All of this largely depends on the platform the game is going to run on - which I'm sure you'll appreciate. It also depends on if the game is simultaneously developed for more than one platform.

At the moment, console games dont push textures any further or higher than a 512 texture map with one alpha chanel (of course file format = tga if it has an alpha). The smallest textures used for modern day consoles (to my knowledge) are 64x64. Of course, a game engine will run 4 64x64 texture maps faster than it will run one 256 on a model. Also, PS2 doesnt like 512x256 texture maps, whereas xbox and gamecube have no real problems with them.
.
PC games are different altogether as there are alot less restrictions when it comes to textures these days. Biggest map I've ever worked on for something PC related was 2048 - the newest 'wave' of PC games will support this size.

Although I honestly know nothing about it, I'd say PS3 will more than likely support 1024 texture maps.

Seen as though ive just woken up I hope this is some help or at least makes some sense!

Cheers,

Nathan.

Matt

03-04-2004, 03:50 AM

Dunbar:

It depends on the engine. Console games use proprietary formats typically. Unreal Tournament games use UTX, Quake and Doom 3 engine games use JPEG and Targa, just for an example. If you browse the directories of your favorite Sega Dreamcast games, you'll find PVR (power vr) files. To make a joke, I'll just say that the most common used file format for texture maps is PSD... After all, that's where they come from anyway, right?

Targas are used because they are lossless files. The 32-bit targa includes an alpha channel which allows you to create transparencies. Some have said that a compressed format such as JPEG is better because the file size is smaller and therefor it would use less video memory, but that is wrong. A pixel is a pixel, and when a graphic is called, it doesn't matter if it's 20KB or 200KB in file size, it will still take the same amount of video memory, and if the engine is robust enough, it will call the file and discard of it when needed, so you don't have to worry about temporaries flooding the river, so to speak.

The average sizes, as I believe have been mentioned, are multiples of 2 or 32. I would say the most common resolution used in console games today is 256x256. You use the size according to what you're doing... For example, if you were making a palm tree, you would use a repeating texture, probably 256x256 for the trunk, a 32x32 texture for the dates at the top of the tree, and a 512x512 targa with an alpha channel with multiple leaves on the map for the leaves. (Alternatively, you could use one single map, which is probably the best way to go.)

Diffuse is the most common texture map. Alpha is second, normals would be third. I can't think of many games using diffuse off the top of my head, as it would be a waste for the renderer to process something you could calculate in advance. Remember, every layer you add to a shader, adds multiplicatively to the render time... 1 layer for example could take 1ns, 4 layers could take 4ns... 4 layers, 2 of which are special formats, perhaps an environmental map and an alpha transparent, could take a considerable amount of more render time to complete the frame.

Edit: Oh and Dunbar, since you're asking these questions, I think it's obvious to assume that you're just getting interested in becoming a part of the industry right now, so it will most likely take you years to get to the level you want to get to. Let me make this suggestion: Work ahead, meaning... Some people can make great textures that are as tiny as can be, but their work doesn't look as great on a larger scale. In four years, we'll be using 2048x2048 as the standard texture for every game, regardless of the item the texture will be used on. Every shader will have many layers and it will look more like the material browser in 3D studio max, than a shader script. Familiarize yourself with this sort of stuff, and you'll be set for the future. A lot of people will have a hard time converting to the newer, more detailed order of things. "But why would a character need to have a 2048x2048 texture for his pocket watch?" Well, why not? I can tell you one thing about the future of games... Detail is always added. Game systems typically have a five year life cycle, and we are nearing the end of the current crop of systems. The same goes for computer graphics, every five years there is a massive exodus to the new standards. 2004 will bring DOOM 3 and Half Life 2, a dramatic leap forward in comparison to the current PC games available... These games will look like absolute kindergarten material in just four years, so think ahead, my friend.

dominicqwek

03-08-2004, 07:33 PM

nice one matt. very informative and good insight of things ahead. 2048x2048 texture maps...hmm..those are gonna be great for close ups :P

Jeffo

03-13-2004, 09:44 PM

matt: doom has jpeg tech? wow.. thats gotta be the first game i've heard of that supports it, unless im really blind :) the file size difference might not matter much in terms of video memory, but processing time should be better. If every file gets cut down to 10% thats gotta make a decent difference, correct me if im wrong though.

cool thread though guys! lots of good info here.

thomaspecht

03-14-2004, 12:37 PM

quake3 has been supporting jpegs for a long long time. where did you listen jeffo? ;)

Jeffo

03-14-2004, 01:30 PM

haha damn, thats cool! :)

Dunbar

03-15-2004, 10:10 AM

Thanks! commy, nattnewman, Matt
Sorry for the delay in a reply, Im still over seas in the middleeast so between working all the time, and a limited access, I have times of silents in my post :)

Thank you for all the great information, it has been a great help, and some great info, exactly what I was looking for. Not to far off topic is my new project, which I started a thread here,
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129612

I started this small simple model so I can learn how to make and use the Alpha map, using Maya and Photoshop.

So if anyone could hop onto that thread and shed some light for a good basic lesson on alpha maps, that would be GREAT!
and would add much to the cgtalk.com community. :)

So this is my next step in learning the world of texturing..

cheers again for the info and insight on things to come, and good advice for anyone....

takecare
Dunbar

Xaint

03-15-2004, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Dunbar
So if anyone could hop onto that thread and shed some light for a good basic lesson on alpha maps, that would be GREAT!
and would add much to the cgtalk.com community. :)

I suggest you guys to share the info here, and not on separate threads!
This is what this thread is about, to collect the information, so everyone can get it here, who want's to know more about texturing.
Specific info goes to individual threads, common goes here.

Question: Has jpeg any advantage over the other formats (in relationship of game engines and texturing)? I assume loading time may be faster. Where can you use it effectively, since quality is lesser? I assume, for less detailed, noisy things like grass, mud, stone, organic stuff, but not for exact things or characters.

XiaHui

04-03-2004, 05:27 PM

I use a Graphire2 4x5 and it works quite famously. Many many artists and such will tell you that you don't need a large size tablet. I know some who had 4x5 tablets, upgraded to a larger size, and switched back to the smaller size because it's more convenient.

EricChadwick

04-05-2004, 02:04 PM

file size difference might not matter much in terms of video memory, but processing time should be better. Not true. Video cards (whether in a console or PC) mostly accept just raw pixels coming in, so the game engine converts whatever compressed format you are using into raw uncompressed pixels before sending them to the card. Same processing time, same video memory load, no matter if you use compression or not.

One common exception is the DirectX Texture format (DXT or DDS). As I understand it, some cards support keeping these in compressed form in video memory, uncompressing them in hardware to render them. So the files take up less room both in storage (on the harddisk or CD) and in memory (on the card).

Some info here about DDS, worth slogging through the technical jargon...
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/directx9_c/directx/graphics/programmingguide/gettingstarted/direct3dtextures/compressed/compressedtextureresources.asp
There are quite a few DXT flavors available... compressed vs. uncompressed.

Some nice examples of DXT texture issues on UDN...
http://udn.epicgames.com/Content/TextureComparison

I've heard there are other card-supported texture formats too, but they're mostly confined to one chip manufacturer or another.

So for me, JPG is usually a waste of time, since it is lossy and doesn't support alpha and doesn't stay compressed in memory. But I guess if the hardware doesn't support DXT or somesuch, or you're developing with a web-based engine, then JPG might be good.

There are also paletted textures, those with 256 or less colors. Often you can get away with a 16-color palette for detail textures, effects and the like. Gray textures are sometimes best as 8bit paletted files, for example lightmaps or bump maps.

Hope that helps.

Fungusmonkey

04-08-2004, 01:41 AM

Just thought I'd brag about Lightwave a bit...

What I do a lot with my models is set up the UV's as best I can and then go back in later and do touch-up's with planar maps. Here's what I mean:

1. I set up say, a leg. The UV seam is on the inside of the leg.

2. After I paint as best I can, there's still a little seam (or the seam is REAL ugly), so I set up a planar map of the seam and the area around it, and I use surface baker to export all the color information to a .tif

3. I fix the problem in photoshop using the clone tool, paintbrush, etc.

4. In Photoshop, I create an alpha map for the fixed seam picture.

5. Back in Lightwave, I add another layer to the pants texture, slap the fixed seam pic on there, and then blend it into the original UVmapped texture using the alpha map.

6. Use surface baker to export the color information back out to another .tif, this time using the original UV Map.

Presto! Seam fixed. May be a little complex, but when I get some pictures up you'll see what I mean.

EricChadwick

04-08-2004, 01:16 PM

Thanks for the post! Similar technique here for 3ds max, if anyone's interested...
http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/map_channels/map_channels.htm

Vailias

04-11-2004, 12:08 AM

Oi sorry for the absence! I don't think I've been back here since that post. I used to come for the competitions and just ran out of time to do them..

You can grab the brush file here. (http://jodinewton.150m.com/Pimps/Vailias_Brushes.ABR) Make sure and right click and "save target as"

Heres the difference:
http://jodinewton.150m.com/Pimps/BrushComparison.png

Also UVmapping in lightwave rocks. :) Actually everything in lightwave rocks.. cept there aren't enough game format exporters for it. :(

Seams: Use a test pattern like a multi colored checkerboard. That way you can spot misalignment and distortions problems early and fix the map accordingly. If you can't actually adjust the map (ie its a premade model you are skinning) the test pattern still helps, or make a separate layer in photoshop, and put evenly spaced tickmarks in a very visible pattern along the seam areas you are haveing trouble with so you can see just how to adjust your details or lines to match one another in position.

Boxsmiley

04-14-2004, 09:17 PM

Hi everyone, individuals know and have experienced so much here that I was wondering if anyone had any ideas or tutorials on how blending two different maps for use in an environment is done for games. A good example i can bring up is in the pic i have attached. The grass seems to blend into the dirt and vice versa. Does it have to do with the way the geometry is laid out on the map...or is it a type of procedural texture that was created in the material editor. I'm using 3D Max if that helps any, but of coarse any help, dierction towards reposts like these with answers or tuts would be gladly appreciated. Thanks!

Screenshot taken from Bungie's Halo.

http://www.polygonists.org/cgimages/TextureBlend.jpg

EricChadwick

04-14-2004, 09:24 PM

Usually vertex-alpha-color is used for this kind of blending. So there are triangles defining the path, with four edge-loops defining the path, two on each side. The vertices along the two outer edge loops use a vertex alpha color that blends in the grass texture, while the two inner edge loops use a color that controls the path texture. The distance between the two inner edge loops defines how wide the path will be, while the distances between the inner and outer edge loops defines the mixing area between the two textures.

Unless Halo is using something new and esoteric I guess...

Boxsmiley

04-15-2004, 08:29 PM

Hey Eric thanks for the reply...I know exactly what you mean by the edge loops...my main concern i guess is that i can't seem to make the textures blend. I may be confused...but i keep questioning myself by saying, well how are they blending when only one diffuse texture can be applied to to each poly? Its not as if they applied the grass all over and then applied the dirt where they saw fit. That would get rid of the grass in those certain areas. As you can see in my example i am using one 1024x1024 texture that contains both the grass and the dirt. I have unwrapped the box so that the grass is shown on the sides and the dirt in the middle...but then how can i blend them? As you can see the grass stops to meet the dirt. How can i use the vertex alpha coloring to make them bleed unto each other? Hope i made myself clear. Thanks for the help.

http://www.polygonists.org/cgimages/TextureBlend_02.jpg

EricChadwick

04-15-2004, 08:51 PM

I'm not sure how Bungie implemented their vertex-blending scheme. Usually game devs develop their own standalone art tools for things like this.

In max you can use a Vertex Color map in the Blend slot of a Blend material. But that only lets you blend two bitmaps at a time...

EricChadwick

04-15-2004, 08:55 PM

Ah, I searched around a little, here's a method for storing multiple vertex color channels, so you can use multiple Vertex Color maps.... which then could be placed in a Composite map or somesuch.
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95624

Ancient-Pig

04-26-2004, 06:06 AM

Thats multi-pass texturing... I just finished up a game on the Tony Hawk engine, and it has support for 4 multi pass channels.

This layers up to 4 textures onto the same piece of geometry.. on PS2 each layer is an actual piece of geometry thats created through enabling multi pass texturing.. on GC and X-Box its almost free..

The setup above is pretty common. For the transition area, you would just have multi pass texturing setup on 2 layers, and vertex alpha through one to the other...

Some engines have a harder time with this.. Renderware is one that comes to mind. In that case, when you use vertex alpha, the alpha wont stop at the base texture layer, but continue all the way through the geometry.. so you gotta find a work around.

Anyhow.. you can do some cool things with it...

Fungusmonkey

04-26-2004, 06:04 PM

Vailias: Thanks for the brush size idea. I set my brushes up like that and I can tell you it definitely speeds things up a bit.

Yeah, Lightwave is great at everything. And I have complete faith that once game companies take the time to check it out, Lightwave is going to be a major player in the game development field. Take normal mapping for games, for instance. Every time I turn in my portfolio lately the first question I get asked is what program I used to make the models. I don't know what the procedure is in other prog's, but in LW all I do is make the hi-res mesh first, copy it, drop the polygons, create a normal map, and bang. Next generation game model in no time flat. Not to mention I just bake the hi-res texture to a single map and I have an instant texture. Too bad every good company uses 3dsmax.

marque-pierre

04-26-2004, 07:27 PM

Great work on the brushes layout vailias. Has helped me a lot already. Thanks man.

Fungusmonkey

05-18-2004, 11:11 PM

Alright, I have some questions to toss in here:

1) How much shadow should I be putting into my maps? I'm new to texturing for games, so I'm unclear on this. I know that some games prefer almost no shadows on the maps and let the vertex shading handle it. What's a good amount of shadow on a texture map? I've just been shading anything that the geometry doesn't show (such as wrinkles in cloth, etc)

2) How long should it take you to finish a map (professionally)? I'm used to spending days on a single texture (for film), but I want to retrain myself for games.

3) Cloth. I'm looking for good techniques on the finer points of clothes, like how to draw in the little stitches on denim, to how to make a good collar, etc.

4)Is there any way to view the texture maps they use in games? I know that UnrealEd will view those, but what about games like Jedi Knight 2 (or Academy)? Is there a program or a way to view those texture files? I'd like to study them to get a better sense of UV Layout, texture detail, shadows, etc.

Any help is greatly, greatly appreciated!

EricChadwick

05-21-2004, 12:37 AM

1. IMO, depends on the quality of the lighting technology in the game. Almost all current games use very simple point or infinite lights, maybe mixed with some ambient or somesuch. If you have normal mapping and better lighting, you'll want very little shading since it can fight with the "real" light. But if just normal maps without strong lighting tech, you'll want to bake in some GI shadow-gathering-in-creases kind of shading. And if no bump mapping, then lots of baked-in light will help (ala Quake III).

2) A good read...
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~polycount/ubb/Forum8/HTML/003291.html

3) Some tehcniques here...
http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/cottages/qbranch/tutorials.shtml

4) Far Cry demo stores all the tex in PAK files which are really just PKZIP format. Many games do this. After unpacking, get the DDS tools from Nvidia to see them.
http://developer.nvidia.com/object/nv_texture_tools.html

Many artists who work on games show flats on their sites. BoBo the Seal is an example...
http://www.bobotheseal.com/images/mods/q3f/engineer-final02.jpg
David King is another...
http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/cottages/kingscastle/gallerytexture.htm

Hope that helps. Maybe someone else will chime in with their thoughts...

NeptuneImaging

06-15-2004, 05:37 PM

I am rather curious but, how do you paint teeth texture maps? Thanks in advance....

thomaspecht

06-15-2004, 06:44 PM

something like that?
http://home.arcor.de/th0mas_p/web/teeth_example.jpg
picture shows color, specular and normal maps.

i'm afraid there's nothing special about painting teeth (at least for me) that separates it from texturing other body parts.

NeptuneImaging

06-15-2004, 07:53 PM

Yes...I want to do that for game models and stuff like that ....

Xaint

06-16-2004, 05:39 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GIJoe
[B]something like that?
http://home.arcor.de/th0mas_p/web/teeth_example.jpg

How did you make the normal map for this?

the rookie

07-21-2004, 03:42 PM

I had a quick question, I am a rookie on all elements, but what if I wanted to do texture painting like PS one low rez models, how would I go about that???, I want to create low rez models as well as low rez textures I know this is not industry standard, but I wanted to create if for comedy purposes????????

ImUrPeTii

08-03-2004, 12:34 PM

Maybe the link below will help someone just like me.

http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/cottages/rorshach/index2.shtml

Vladbad

10-05-2004, 10:33 AM

Thanks for a great thread, I´ve learned a lot. Keep them tips coming please.

juliany

10-06-2004, 02:33 AM

This is indeed very good! Thanks man!

jintz

11-16-2004, 02:59 PM

Nice thread.

nattnewman

11-25-2004, 01:41 PM

hi all,

do many of you have image libraries that you use?

I use quite an extensive one that i created myself over the years, but one thing i am lacking of are windows :( particularly american style windows (broad and spacious mainly). I was wondering if anyone could help me out and post some pics for me to add? I have been looking for a while and exhausted most of my resources.

Thanks in advance - any help is much appreciated.

Cheers,

Nathan.

Hellwolve

11-25-2004, 01:58 PM

My favorite sites for collecting images are these:

http://sxc.hu/
http://www.imageafter.com/index.php
http://www.morguefile.com/archive/

Ofcourse I don't know whether or not you've already seen them or have any use for them, but I thought I'd post the links anyway :)

nattnewman

11-25-2004, 02:38 PM

thanks hellwolve,

that has been quite helpfull :)

keep the links coming! hehe :)

cheers,

Nathan.

Hellwolve

11-25-2004, 02:44 PM

Hey, no problem. It's the least I can do after so much time of admiring other people's work ;)

As for other links...well, that's it. Those are the three I use :)

EricChadwick

11-27-2004, 03:34 PM

If you're interested, there are a bunch more links in the sticky at the top of the Texturing/Surfacing section.

b1ll

11-27-2004, 04:34 PM

http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/cottages/b1ll/step_head_champ.jpg

Step on how I paint textures.

Strang

11-27-2004, 05:21 PM

wow very nice.. thanks for sharing

Mizu

12-26-2004, 12:01 PM

Well, i read dozens of tuts regarding painting game textures, but when i try to paint something like a good metal texture myselfe , such as that big robot blue texture(http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=196906) i end up with something like this

http://companydesign.webstudio.com.pl/Untitled-1.png.... (painted in 30 seconds. could't come up with anything better...)

http://www.companydesign.webstudio.com.pl/Untitled-2.png 5 minutes.... i just can't come up with good technique.....:sad:

i dont know if they're using some background textures and blend highlights into them... but textures that they make are mpossible for me to draw(for now:))

And i ask... how do this people paint so outstanding textures using only brushes?? how do they place the highlits, shadows, halftones. is you cnow some good tuts or can give some advice i would appreciate it. thanks

marque-pierre

12-26-2004, 01:53 PM

I think the very first step is to take a good hard long look at the material you want to paint. Ask yourself, what makes this material look so? Not just the colours, they are fairly easy to pick up, but noise, reflections, grain, wear and tear, dirt everything that gives it its personality, then when you know the distinctive things that makes it look like itself, recreating them from scratch is gonna be a lot easier.

FreakyDude

12-30-2004, 08:32 PM

yes but the hard part is exactly the noise, reflections, grain, wear and tear, dirt etc. How do you create them. No not how do you create them, but how do you create them to give you that look you're after? I'm having a (relatively) easy time modeling, but a darn hard time texturing, cause the base colors are easy, but the rest is so bloody annoying to get a grip off.

marque-pierre

12-31-2004, 05:45 PM

Hmmm. You need to develop a power of critical observation. I am amazed that I haven't recommended Owen Demers' awesome Digital Paint and Texturing book yet, but that is what did it for me:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0735709181/qid=1104514885/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-8272063-5571046?v=glance&s=books

You need to train your eye to see and analyze what features exactly makes so and so material unique and appear to be so and so material. It is absolutely crucial. No ammount of Photoshop experience will do this for you. This book uses like half of the pages going through such exercises. That is step one...

Multimediaman

01-01-2005, 01:09 PM

that book is pretty nice, it's got some intersting tips and all.. doesn't really talk much about editing uvw's, and how much they can really do for a person though, and a lot of the stuff in there still looks pretty 'cg-ish' to me...

though not completely getting rid of the 'cg' look, another good book is David Franson's "The Dark Side of Game Texturing" ... it has a few of those 'computer graphics' textures in them, but it's also got some good advice on how to use photoshop filters to their fullest.

but possibly the best advice is to go build yourself a texture library.

I've got 2,163 pictures I've taken for textures and other purposes, and once I get my new camera paired with the memory card that's in shipment right now, I expect to double the amount of textures shortly... I just hope I'll be able to keep track of the CD's the texture photos are on heh... probably going to have to categorize them as I burn 'em off.

but yeah, a good goal to reach is the ability to take almost any object and know, "hey, I've got a pretty good texture for that on my computer" or "you know, with just a bit of tweaking, this photo can be passed off as this object's texture"

marque-pierre

01-01-2005, 04:00 PM

I can't believe you mentioned that book, "Dark Side of..." I am kinda obsessed about learning to texture well, so I buy every book out there on the topic. That one was a H:U:G:E disappointment. Never seen such dated looking stuff. And all the tutorials were basically something you could get better and for free on the web. If you don't know where to look, goodtutorials.com and polycount are good places to start. I remember showing this book to my texturing teacher, straight outta the industry, and she was just shaking her head at all the newbie mistakes...

But you are right about the texture photo library! But do yourself a favour and organise them into a somewhat rememberable system of categories. After you have burned a thousand images to disk, it gets pretty complicated retrieving them.

Multimediaman

01-02-2005, 04:38 AM

I can't believe you mentioned that book, "Dark Side of..." I am kinda obsessed about learning to texture well, so I buy every book out there on the topic. That one was a H:U:G:E disappointment. Never seen such dated looking stuff. And all the tutorials were basically something you could get better and for free on the web. If you don't know where to look, goodtutorials.com and polycount are good places to start. I remember showing this book to my texturing teacher, straight outta the industry, and she was just shaking her head at all the newbie mistakes...
heh... yeah, I'd agree with your teacher, it's not really the best looking stuff out there... in fact some of the stuff looks downright sega saturnish... almost like well.. there's some crates on page 70... that looks like crud I was making with paint shop pro around 3.5 years ago heheh... not good at all..

but the main reason I mentioned it is because I feel it covers the basics of the programs you're using better than the digital texturing & painting does... though yeah, most of that stuff could be found online

marque-pierre

01-02-2005, 05:09 AM

Still, the stuff taught in Owen Demers' book will hold true no matter what version of Photoshop will be out in 5 years. Franson's stuff was dated before it was send to print. BTW ever tried accessing his portfolio which he lists the address for in the book? Broken link...

I think it is far more important to train your eye and your painting skills than to know the latest filters or what button to press in Photoshop. You don't really need a texturing book for that - just get the last Photoshop Wow! Book...

Creating the Art of the Game by Matthew Omernick is a solid book through and through. It will teach you pretty much everything about making game art, from interfaces to textures, and show you both in Max and Maya. That can't be beat. Nor can the author's credentials (Medal of Honour team, now Art Director with Lucasarts).

Photoshop Illuminated by Mesmer Press, takes you through all the tools, menus, palettes and filters from a games texturing perspective. So if you are new to Photoshop altogether, that is a good one to get.

Bpanting

01-06-2005, 03:15 PM

This is a great thread, I have seen some good things I want to try after reading now.

My question is can any one give some tips on going about painting up some good stone textures. I am looking for like worn chiped uneven concrete or stone. I am working on an old tomb and I want to make some really good worn stone textures for it.

Boxsmiley

01-10-2005, 08:01 PM

When texturing vast terrain, like in MMO's how does one go about texturing something so large? Does anyone know of any tutorials, examples or even life experience on how texturing is setup technically, and what the artists have to understand before attempting this task? Thanks in advance.

HyPer

01-11-2005, 01:57 AM

texturing terrain is always a case of using repeating textures on a vertex by vertex level, it fades in and out the texture according to an alpha map or black and white mask for the terrain, white = full
black = nothing
grey = mid

so you set up grass according to a mask for the entire terrain - and dirt - and rock and whatever other layers you may have in there - the more technical aspects of this are handled by the engine - every engine a little different from the other. but thats the basic idea
layers of repeating textures overlapping eachother.

also, in some cases you can also use vertex colors to dictate which texture is used and how strong it is present on the mesh.

Boxsmiley

01-11-2005, 04:41 PM

I'm loving that info Hyper, thanks...ok, so basically you can mix the dirt and grass with an output of either an alpha map, or by vertex coloring with black and white, if i understand you correctly. The one part i don't fully understand is how artists are able to get more than two types of mixing textures at a time? Is it done by multi-sub textures (i use max), or do they simply detach the meshes at certain locations to apply another round of different mixing texture maps? I attached an example of what i'm visually puzzled by? The red outlined area is obviously not tiled the same way the dirt and grass are tiling on the floor, which is the blue outline? So then it would have to have another material, along with another UV coordinate applied to those certain polies, right? Thanks again for that info, every bit helps.

FreakyDude

01-12-2005, 08:11 PM

you could say it kind of uses a submaterial yes, and each material has an aplha channel. You familiar with photoshop? basically its piling up layers, then apply an alpha mask to each layer, as if you were deleting parts of that layer.So every layer has an image that serves as an alpha and should be a grayscale image.

You can create a similar effect by using a multisub object I suppose. The technique is universal, be creative, there are multiple roads that lead to rome.

EricChadwick

01-12-2005, 08:50 PM

As I understand it, the trick is to learn how many textures you can combine in as few rendering passes as possible. Some hardware supports in a single pass just two color bitmaps being combined by a grayscale third, with that third often being vertex colors instead of a bitmap. Some will let the artist combine more textures at once in a single pass.

As I see it, it all comes down to how long it takes to render. If I have to re-render the surface multiple times (rendering passes), after a certain point the framerate starts to suffer.

Some engines don't support 3ds max's Multi/Sub-Object material type, a few do. If they do, each sub-material will be split into a separate set of verts by the exporter, creating in essence a separate surface. The verts along the seams between these chunks will get the same normals, so there is no visual seam in-game, but increasing the number of these chunks will slow down performance too.

The M/S-O material isn't for blending bitmaps, it's for dividing the mesh up into separate materials. If you want to blend, you use the map type they support, like a Composite map or a Mix map or whatever. It seems many engines these days set up their shaders in a separate app though.

EricChadwick

01-12-2005, 09:00 PM

In case you haven't seen this thread, some good tips about landscape texturing.
http://boards.polycount.net/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=15652&an=0&page=0

Boxsmiley

01-13-2005, 07:52 PM

Awesome, thanks for taking the time to reply guys. I really appreciate it.

Cheers!

agentboolen

01-16-2005, 08:18 AM

01-16-2005, 09:10 AM

Hi guys, from what i have learned from the post is that the dodge and burn tool help you get rinkles, but how exactly to you start out the rinkle. Right now i set up a blank scene with a blue background and used the 2 tools and i dont really get any detail till i draw a line in there, but still im not seeing the results that i would like to with just these tools. Is there any tutuorial that i can follow to learn a little more? This is a very important part of 3d that i would like to learn a little more but just dont know where too start.

Unfortunately I have not seen one way of doing things. If you want to start skinning and drawing textures for that I would recommend to draw more. I have seen plenty of tutorials around that give a rough step by step process, but that will not help much except for that one situation. Getting to know tools in programs is good but not having the tools become the only means of getting one effect. If you have the drawing skills already just keep practicing.

If I was you I would invest in some of the books mentioned by these people here. Some of those have great tutorials and such to help you with the tools and what the book tells you can do with the tools of the program. But in the long run the best thing you can do for yourself is to get a sketch pad, Pick up some fruit and draw them. Draw them till they look realistic on paper and once you get to the point you are good to go with the rest. :)

horseshoe

07-12-2005, 05:46 PM

Any ideas on how to use PhShop bevel&emboss in order to simulate wrinkles, instead of the burning tool?

EricChadwick

07-12-2005, 05:54 PM

One way...

1. Make a new layer, filled with gray.
2. Draw wrinkles as dark lines.
3. Filter > Stylize > Emboss. Tweak settings.
4. Change layer blending mode to Overlay.
5. Tweak.

horseshoe

07-13-2005, 10:26 PM

TY Eric.

Ah..... some time ago, I've heard of a tool for Phshop, perhaps a plugin, which serves to simulate directly wrinkles upon a matte surface. Never heard of this?

EricChadwick

07-13-2005, 11:02 PM

There are tons of filters around. But most of them suck. All the game artists I know paint wrinkles by hand. IMHO painting skills are a must for game texturing.

Having said that though, sometimes filters can help speed things along. I've found this page helpful in seeing what the defaults are.
http://openstream.ch/photoshop/index.php?cat=all&lang=english

horseshoe

07-15-2005, 01:24 PM

There are tons of filters around. But most of them suck.

Agree.

All the game artists I know paint wrinkles by hand. IMHO painting skills are a must for game texturing.

Do you think it is better to get the wrinkles from solid polys after normal-mapping?

EricChadwick

07-15-2005, 02:02 PM

Do you think it is better to get the wrinkles from solid polys after normal-mapping? I've seen good results when an artist models the larger wrinkles in geometry, then extracts a normal map (or height map), then paints the smaller details as an overlay... small details like pores, pimples, moles, wrinkles on the lips, etc. I've used photo-source for pores and fine wrinkles, gray-scaled and added as an overlay, works well.

thomaspecht

07-15-2005, 02:45 PM

what i do often these days is to take my game model into zbrush and sculpt the wrinkles (and other mid size details) on. afterwards i import the zbrushed model into my main 3d app (max in this case), set up lights as i wish and render-to-texture an image that serves as a rough texture overlay.
hand painting comes in at a later stage but i found that this workflow speeds me up very noticeably and improves the texture quality as well. extra benefit is that one could output a normal map at the same time if that was neccessary. but, be careful when mixing pre-painted highlights and shadows with a normal map.

another way i use(d) is to paint the wrinkles with zbrush's 2d painting tools onto the texture page. the 2d/3d effect comes out really well and you're able to position lights above the surface to tweak the effect.

the bevel filter /layer effect from photoshop is still handy for creating fine detail, though.

PhilOsirus

07-28-2005, 10:55 PM

I finished modeling a character and unwrapped it but texturing is very difficult. I'm trying to paint the face but it's not going anywhere.

1- What is a good lighting setup to get the prelight shadows?
2- I like how some people paint the faces like they would paint a 2D illustration, I wonder what tools they use in PS? Only some paintbrush? And if so which brush setup?

Thanks!

Volcandro

08-14-2005, 09:41 PM

Thanks guys for this tread, it's very helpful for textures making. I'll try some of the tricks like the square brush and the higher to lower resolution in photoshop and that works very good. My textures are better now after following all the stuff here. Thanks ;)

x_wolf19

10-07-2005, 07:15 AM

i would texture a face starting with a base color, and using a somewhat large fuzzy brush, bring out highlights, and skintone colors, and put in darker skin tone colors for the dark spots. works really well. The detail is similar, just tightening it up as you go along.

rob-beddall

10-30-2005, 11:01 PM

hey!!

a few pages back (page 5 i think) someone mentioned that they were going to write a tutorial on painting out seams in game textures. well, it would seem that they haven't got round to it yet, or have forgot. would someone be so kind as to point me in the direction of a good tutorial that covers this.
I use Max and Pshop.

cheers!!

rob-beddall

10-31-2005, 12:48 AM

hey!!

i've just re-read the whole of this topic just to make sure i didn't miss anythign on painting out seams, and i came across this.

FUNGUSMONKET wrote:

Just thought I'd brag about Lightwave a bit...

What I do a lot with my models is set up the UV's as best I can and then go back in later and do touch-up's with planar maps. Here's what I mean:

1. I set up say, a leg. The UV seam is on the inside of the leg.

2. After I paint as best I can, there's still a little seam (or the seam is REAL ugly), so I set up a planar map of the seam and the area around it, and I use surface baker to export all the color information to a .tif

3. I fix the problem in photoshop using the clone tool, paintbrush, etc.

4. In Photoshop, I create an alpha map for the fixed seam picture.

5. Back in Lightwave, I add another layer to the pants texture, slap the fixed seam pic on there, and then blend it into the original UVmapped texture using the alpha map.

6. Use surface baker to export the color information back out to another .tif, this time using the original UV Map.

Presto! Seam fixed. May be a little complex, but when I get some pictures up you'll see what I mean.
is there a similar method in max using UV channels and render to texture?
i've been playing around with it trying to get it to work but i can't :(
i think i can imagine the workflow, i just can't get it to work.
here is what i wan't to do.

1.UV map the model with the seams where i want them. UV channel 1

2.then planar map over the seams in channel 2.

3.export it to Pshop and paint the texture where the seam "should" be.

4.back in Max, render to texture from UV channel 2 to UV channel 1.

5.seams should no longer appear.

is this possible at all, or am i completely on the wrong track here?
if there is a simpler way please let me know. (or if you know how to get this way to work)

hope someone can help me with this as it's driving me up the wall.

cheers!!

rob-beddall

10-31-2005, 10:33 AM

hey!!

hmm i searched on this forum for hours last night.
then i posted on cgchat and someone gave me this link, back to this forum. :)
solves my problem beautifully. so if anyone else is having trouble with seams, then go here

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=242772&page=10&pp=15

cheers!!

drawdraw.com

11-21-2005, 05:15 AM

you dont really need any tricks to paint out seams.. most people just do it the old fashioned way (at least i do) and end up with good results. just keep painting and previewing over and over till its right.

EricChadwick

11-21-2005, 02:12 PM

just keep painting and previewing over and over till its right.
Yes, this is possible. But it is time-consuming, and in the biz, time is money. 3D paint is great for this, leap in and give it a spin.

qrt

12-31-2005, 01:08 AM

the biggest :
http://www.planetunreal.com/identitycrisis/tutorials/skinning.shtml
the best :
http://st.burst.cc/tutorials.htm
_
http://max3d.pl/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14531&d=1113557480
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trees7gm7fd.jpg
http://www.poopinmymouth.com/tutorial/tutorial.htm
the best :
http://st.burst.cc/tutorials.htm

makkE

01-07-2006, 12:18 AM

The tutorials you labeled "Best" also helped me a lot to get started :)

These and a lot of new tutorials in the same department (mostly about guns and other fps essentials) have been gathered at

http://www.sourceblog.net/page.php?file=/tuts/skin/Text/textskin

:)

Ben Mathis´s tutorials are also great to grasp some of the basics and also the theory behind it, if you (like me) have no or little traditional art backround :) If you read this, Ben, THANKS SO MUCH !!

Arkadius

01-11-2006, 11:39 PM

hello guys :)
First of all - great thread, I have read almoust every of the 12 pages here this evning and I think I have lerned a lot - and I colected materials, tuts etc. to learn even more - big thanks for that :)

But, I haven't found anything about making stuff that make a texture real kick ass - about making the dirt, the scretches, the feeling of old material and so one... If you dont' know wat exacly am I talking about (sorry for my english skilz) ;) please take a look on those links ->

Hatred work ->
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=306736

Maggem work -> http://www.maggem.com/axe-tex.htm
http://www.maggem.com/axe.htm

I know that making this kind of thing is easier when you have practiced a lot, but I don't even know how to start practising it... I have a quite flat, and I want to give it some dirt, scretches and so... Got any tips / trics / tuts?

EricChadwick

01-12-2006, 02:28 PM

Arkadius, have you looked in the links people have been posting here?

There are plenty of painting tutorials that teach you how to do detail work. For example, try the link that makkE added, in the post right above yours. The first tutorial listed at that site is a good one to get started with.

1-pixel brushes are your friend! But beware going too far with detail, you may lose the "big picture." The artist Hatred did this with his character. He has too many fine details and not enough broad strokes, so the character looks flat and noisy.

Arkadius

01-13-2006, 11:23 PM

thx Eric for reply :)
yeah, I saw that, but those tuts that was not exacly what I was looking for... They rather show how to make very basic materials than efects I needed. I searched the web and I think I found what I was looking for here:

http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/photoshop/worn_metal/metal.asp

http://www.tutorio.com/tutorial/photoshop-metal-texture

http://67.15.36.49/team/Tutorials/texture_katherine_dinger/dirty_texture01.asp

http://67.15.36.49/team/Tutorials/texturing_metal/texturing_metal1.asp

I guess that most of you know this tuts, but they can be be very halpfull if someone will have similar problem in the future, so I'm posting they here.

Chers :)

Bpanting

01-18-2006, 07:24 PM

Anyone have any good tips or trick for making tree, or plant textures. I need to start making some soon and thats something I am not really good at.

Arkadius

01-18-2006, 07:53 PM

Kwyjibo - sure, use the alpha chanel end flat polygons to make a palnt. Check this out: http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trees7gm7fd.jpg

It's from here: http://www.glest.org/
hope this helps.

EricChadwick

01-18-2006, 09:24 PM

If for realistic-style trees, photos (http://www.cgchat.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17100) are the best bet.

chinese_lover

03-23-2006, 02:42 AM

ok here is something i posted on making image planes as hair on a 3d character in 3ds max,
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=333606
i was needing help in the subject if you are wondering,
i just need to know how to paint the hair in photoshop to get them on the planes correctly,could someone explain alpha to me,ive seen people mention it,Chris^_^

EricChadwick

03-23-2006, 02:12 PM

Chris,

Some hair texture painting tips:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=742888&highlight=hair#post742888

Alpha is (usually) for transparency... white is solid, black is clear, and the grays in between vary the amount of transparency. Photoshop has a palette for alpha called Channels. Create a new channel there, then put your grayscale transparency painting in it. Save it using a file format that stores alpha (32bit TGA is one).

Depending on your 3D software, there is usually a way to set it to use the alpha for the hair transparency.

chinese_lover

03-23-2006, 07:20 PM

do you think when you paint hair all the time for a low poly or any 3d model you have to use the alpha channel stuff,
or do you think people maybe just paint normal hair on there models like here are few examples,
http://www.realtimecg.com/template.php?id=Munch.php&n=10
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5028/tidus003vl.jpg
all 8 of these pics are related from the same model to show you the hair style im looking for right now,
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8804/3d010zz.jpg
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/2368/3d027na.jpg
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/8909/3d035ei.jpg
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/9871/3d041tv.jpg
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/5719/3d050yi.jpg
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/9733/3d073wj.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1013/3d082ba.jpg
here is my updated pic of my model im working i have made the hair like i want pretty much,i still need to finish the back of the head is all on hair,
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7969/chrislowpolymodel036rp.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7325/chrislowpolymodel049nx.jpg
also should i meshsmooth the hair or leave it as be after i get the textures on it,
ok a few more exapmples here hair sticks out on the side,
i notice the painted texture fits on there so nice,did they use alpha to get this or what,
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/5790/gallery7vl.jpg
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/8615/gallery19gx.jpg

EricChadwick

03-23-2006, 07:30 PM

Never use MeshSmooth if you're aiming to use this as an in-game model. Turn it off before you show it off. Employers will want to see how well you can model within actual game limits.

All those examples use alpha hair, as far as I can tell.

You can use this tool to examine the hair in FFX, which everyone agrees is done very well.
http://boards.polycount.net/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=77520&page=&fpart=1&vc=1

chinese_lover

03-23-2006, 08:38 PM

EricChadwick thanks for all the help,i went and looked the final fantasy x and x2 models,
here are some screen shots of yuna from ffx2,and yes this is the real game model,
they just use basic planes for the hair lol,yes i think they are using alpha because when they paint the hair you can only see what is there and nothing more,Thanks,Chris^_^
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6341/yuna017cr.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/7637/yuna029pz.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/4374/yuna033qb.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1744/yuna048rp.jpg

chinese_lover

03-23-2006, 08:56 PM

now i understand this alot more i think,here is 4 examples of rikku out of ffx2,
so when you paint on the alpha channel,what you dont paint is transparent,see thru,
to any kind of back ground,like with her hair right here,
would this be right,Thanks,Chris^_^
http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/2176/rikku016qy.jpg
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/4705/rikku024xv.jpg
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/6268/rikku035nc.jpg
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/9062/rikku044fa.jpg

EricChadwick

03-23-2006, 09:26 PM

when you paint on the alpha channel,what you dont paint is transparent,see thru,to any kind of back ground,like with her hair right here,
would this be right
Yes, see this post...
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=3377477&postcount=175

chinese_lover

03-23-2006, 11:50 PM

ok i did a little test with a plane i shaped out,
i went uvw unwraped it,took it to photoshop colored it real real cheaply,
i made a alpha map for it also,took it back into photoshop,
came up with this,
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/3616/hairtestrender1sa.jpg
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/2379/hairtestrender013ju.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4008/3dsmax8013zq.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/8054/3dsmax8026cm.jpg
i put the alpha map thru opacity and the reg map in diffuse color,
why is the outer edge still showing up,anyone can help me,Chris^_^

EricChadwick

03-24-2006, 02:04 PM

Well, I think you and I have been moving beyond the intent of this thread, which was to share game texture painting techniques, not to fix specific artwork.

Open a new thread and I will answer there.

benclark

04-14-2006, 12:01 AM

Woah! This thread is awesome. I just spent nearly an entire night shift looking through this stuff and learnt a lot.

Keep it coming................

madmenno

04-17-2006, 11:21 AM

I'd like to make my own textures with camera and stuff. But when i snap a picture of a brick wall it doesn't look "flat" on the picture itself. From left to right the bricks get from small to big to small again. Like in this picture http://www.3dexcellence.com/textures/brick/brick2.jpg. Is there any tutorial on how to flatten this image? Or do i have to buy some over the top special camera?

Hellwolve

04-17-2006, 11:31 AM

I think it has much more to do with how you took the pic, then the camera. As I don't know how you took the pic, I can't say much more then that :)

Then again, I can say that it's not apriciated if you include a pic that big with an img tag ;)

madmenno

04-17-2006, 11:38 AM

Ok srry for the size of the pic.... But i though with an image tag it does not matter as it aint using space but it is a bit to big i understand :D. Do i need to delete the picture and find a better example? Or can i somehow use html to shrink down the image to 1/4 of it's size?

But how am i supposed to take the picture? i just can't get it right, i take the picture with my own hand but however i move the camera it keeps having that effect on my photo. As you can see on the picture i posted (not my own) it is taken perfectly straight as the middle bricks are almost perfectly horizontal but the further you get away to more the picture deforms.

Hellwolve

04-17-2006, 12:16 PM

Ok srry for the size of the pic.... But i though with an image tag it does not matter as it aint using space but it is a bit to big i understand :D. Do i need to delete the picture and find a better example? Or can i somehow use html to shrink down the image to 1/4 of it's size?

Eh, I'd say that's too much trouble. Just make normal link out of it :)

But how am i supposed to take the picture? i just can't get it right, i take the picture with my own hand but however i move the camera it keeps having that effect on my photo. As you can see on the picture i posted (not my own) it is taken perfectly straight as the middle bricks are almost perfectly horizontal but the further you get away to more the picture deforms.

Well, I can only speculate at this point...Read the manual of your cam carefully, mess with the settings...That's all I can sugest, 'til I know more of the cam or someone else has good idea :shrug:

paul-banister

04-17-2006, 12:18 PM

try stepping further away from the brick wall and zooming in closer,the edge of your pic wont start to bend....works for me anyway :)

EricChadwick

04-17-2006, 04:45 PM

The problem is caused by barrel distortion. The wider your camera's lens, the more it will bend the incoming light. This can be reduced with a zoom lens, or it can be fixed somewhat by re-distorting it with 2D software like Photoshop.

BoBo-the-seal

05-21-2006, 08:17 PM

here is a little hair video tutorial I put together for painting hair and fur.

http://www.bobotheseal.com/vids/BoBo_Hair_Demo.swf

This was the technique I used to paint this:

http://www.bobotheseal.com/portfolio/TitanQuest/IL_RatMan_TQ_Texture.jpg

- BoBo

chinese_lover

05-21-2006, 09:05 PM

that is a very good hair painting video,
now if only someone could make one on painting wrinkles in clothes,
im having trouble with that,
Thanks,Chris^_^

qrt

05-24-2006, 10:55 AM

no no no....
its 2 rule when u taking a texture picture:
1) take when u are is position 90 degres to texture (wall) u know..
2) try taking fotos without any shadows and lights FX..., and any characteristic elements

tnen use photosop -> filters->
-> hi pass: it take out a "light distiortion". on each part of texture the light will be the same
-> offset: it make texture seemles (ulse stempel tool)
-> sharpen...
-> select all then ctr+t. and then select distort technique (in cs_2 u have better tool but i dont remember how it called) it change the position of bricks > make simple horizontal lines...camera fake it

after it all u get:
( i delete upper part becouse was too dark... i also select new upper part and use ctr+b and change some colours....the camera fake it (light too))
(PART WHAT IM SECELTED IS SEEMLES)
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9148/brick22zp.jpg

muyo

06-28-2006, 03:31 PM

Hi...i read this thread from page 1 up till now...but look like my painting skill is suck, maybe i am not talented, but i have to try...this is some portion of my character texture,it is belt actually...i tried to make cloth wrinkle using dodge and burn tool,but the small size make it horrible to paint...can someone take this and paint the cloth wrinkle so everyone can understand more how pixel painting is done...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/hoyoyo80/belt.png

chinese_lover

06-28-2006, 04:31 PM

here are some sites,they are very good, http://www.mysticalmodality.com/html/tutorials/clothpainting.html
http://www.earthcurves.com/tutorials/shirt_tute_5.htm im still learning how to do this my self, also do you have a wacom tablet,if not i would get one,i use the wacom intuos 3 6x11 my self,hope this helps alot,Chris^_^

muyo

06-29-2006, 01:50 PM

where's my post?

muyo

06-29-2006, 01:52 PM

I dont have wacom:p but i have an old graphics tablet...it is usable in photoshop CS...

Deadalus

06-30-2006, 04:11 AM

[deleted post]

muyo

07-01-2006, 12:10 PM

Please critic my cloth wrinkle...it look more like scar than wrinkle.Do all of u here use dodge and burn?or just using lighter and darker color,since i found that using color instead of dodge and burn i more manageble,since u can add stroke to the shadow w/o burning/dodging further...

my model pic:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/hoyoyo80/mymodel.jpg

Kangataz

07-06-2006, 05:42 PM

what I used to do before I knew dodge and burn tools, was masking certain areas with quick mask mode and then copy the selected cloth on another layer. Now, this way you still have freedom in the areas you want darker and lighter. Change the blending mode to multiply/screen, this is essentially what burn/dodge do. Lastly, You can adjust how harsh the effect by adjusting levels and sliding the opacity up and down for that layer.

Kangataz

07-06-2006, 05:58 PM

madmenno: it seems the picture you showed us has the fisheye effect for being too close to the object.

easy fix for that in PS:

1. make sure that it is right angle first before anything, by free transform>rotate or distort incase there are perspective affected converging lines, just simply strech it so the lines are as parrallel as you can get, ignore the fisheye bending at this stage

2. for the fisheye, go to filter>distort>spherize
slide the percentage to a negative value, after seeing in the preview that it is about rectangular then hit apply.

there you have a straight boxed texture

madmenno

07-11-2006, 08:45 PM

Lol already forgot i posted here. But you gave the exact answere i need. Worked like a charm.. thanks!

itsallgoode9

08-09-2006, 02:35 AM

as far at that brick wall problem there is a new filter in CS2 under filter->distort ->lenscorrection that aids in vairous camera distortions. All of the sliders are pretty easy to figure out with a quick bit of playing, here's what the various things you can fix in this dialog:

Fisheye, or spherical distortions (like in the brick image)
Keystoning-if you take a picture that's not perfectly level the top will appear larger than
the bottom, or vice versa (also works for the horizontal direction too)
Vingetteing-Where the edges of the image are darker or lighter than the center
Chromatic Abberation-little rainbow-ish distortions

this tool is extremely useful when creating seemless textures, so please make sure to check it out. Pretty self explanetory, like I said, so that's wh yididn't really go into depth about the various features. if you have any questions just msg me and ask

Hellwolve

08-09-2006, 09:32 PM

Even after having used PS CS2 for a long, long time, I haven't checked out all filters...I think I'll try that one next; thanks for the tip :thumbsup:

Ghostscape

08-09-2006, 09:52 PM

As someone who hasn't upgraded to CS2 yet, are there other filters that were added that people find help with texture creation? That lens correction filter sounds awesome.

JuddWack

08-11-2006, 01:44 PM

Many people refer to this site:
http://st.burst.cc/tutorials.htm
As a good source for learning how to texture.

I've read through a bunch of textures and tried many of the techniques. Then I find halfway though that will all fall apart when it is time to continue with a bump or spec map. It seems that the tutorials use only one or two layers and many of the techniques are just painting onto a base layer and building it step by step. I can't think of a way to seperate details, like scratches, from a base layer for use in a spec map.

Does anyone have any comments on this?

Hellwolve

08-11-2006, 05:22 PM

To seperate such details, make 'em on a seperate layer instead of the base one. That's what I do and it serves me just fine :)

JuddWack

08-12-2006, 12:08 PM

But many of their tutorials strongly rely on dodging and burning.

Hellwolve

08-12-2006, 12:49 PM

I know...But there are alternatives for that ;) I, for one, tend to use adjustment layers :)

Ghostscape

08-13-2006, 01:10 AM

But many of their tutorials strongly rely on dodging and burning.
So paint some white on a new layer and set it to color or linear dodge, and same with black and burning.

Blending modes let you break a lot of that into different layers.

HellBoy

08-14-2006, 01:45 PM

Hay guys I posted a thread in max forum, it was about displaying animated gif files in the viewport. I was told I could do this via projection light.

Can anyone help me how I could go about doing this?

cheers

urgaffel

08-14-2006, 01:57 PM

I'd strongly adivce against using Dodge and Burn. If you need to change the colour, paint it and change the mode of your brush instead or use a separate layer. That goes for cracks/highlights too. Paint them on a separate layer since it will make creating normal and spec maps a helluva lot easier. By doing that and being smart with your layers and overlays, you can get away with having 4-6 layers and still being able to create all the other maps you need with those 4-6 layers alone.

Example:

Texture Overlay (woodgrain/dirt/rock etc)
Highlights
Cracks
(stains? discolouration?)
Base colour layer

Keeps it clean and organized :)

This might not work for all kinds of textures of course but you can get pretty far with it.

j5ive

09-08-2006, 12:01 PM

Does anybody know of any tutorials to get me started on texturing facial maps? Currently my texturing skills specifically organic is pretty poor.

Thanks

HellBoy

11-11-2006, 07:20 PM

Guys, I need a quick help. I started getting into texturing, so I want to start using specs, bumps etc, do I need a specific fx file or do I just use the default material editor's bump and reflection feature?

Also, if I want to texture a wall, should I unwrap it or should I use planes with alphas, in order for me to add dirts, marks etc

cheers all :thumbsup:

Kangataz

11-12-2006, 01:29 AM

Hellboy: I am gonna try to help a little bit. I am not understanding your first question regarding "specific fx file", all I know bump usually you want to use somewhat an image that is assisted from your color map, because placement is very crucial, if trying to make bump map from scratch use the color map as a guide(such as identifying cracks on a bricks wall, or folds on a face). This is why usually making textures from scratch in photoshop helps cuz a lot of times you would have the layers separated and you can isolate some of that layer to be a bump image.

and for the second question I would unwrap for the color channel(this way any lines from bricks or tiles will match up at the corners of the wall). And for any dirt/crack/noise, you can layer it on top(same material) with multiply, unless you want to use a separate material(usually multiply is enough for me). But the key is to avoid tiling, make each dirt/crack/noise file tile repeat a different amount and rotated. Remember, this is for an overall dirt/crack texture over the wall, not decals.

If you choose to have a specific dirt/mark then you're right either use a plane with alpha, or I use multiple UV channels on the same wall geometry, I would invest on one channel that specifically used to decal on things on the wall, like a poster, grafitti, cracks.

Hope this helps